Indeed, I'd be saying 'my goodness, what a groundbreaking and original technique. That's the sort of dynamic thinking I'd expect from a true champion'. Then I'd offer it my battered sausage.
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Why do people keep saying that "Wii won last gen?"
- Thread starter Comandr
- Start date
SirUltimos
Member
Is this thread seriously still going?
Why is this happening?
Why is this happening?
Omegasquash
Member
I see what you're saying, but it was always subjective before. Just looking back one more...PS2 was the god king for sales and third party support, but MS brought that online infrastructure. Of course we can all agree that the GC did not by any stretch of the imagination do anything but borderline (if not totally) flop.
Going back another, N64 straight up defined 3D gaming, but it had shitty media. PSX did what PS2 did...lots of games, affordable pricing, and market dominance. Saturn was lols.
Before that it was SNES and Genesis. Despite all of it, and being a die hard SNES fan, it's still difficult for me to say one way or another about who "won" what. They both sold plenty, both had a metric ton of games.
I'm just not too keen on labeling winners when there's different stuff going on. Defining a definite loser is always easier, but even then I don't feel like last gen had any losers. The landscape was always shifting.
I think I'm understanding. Nintendo didn't win because their fans were annoying in NPD threads.
By that metric, nobody won
I don't really care about your opinion. Or my own, for that matter. Objective metrics are what matter in analysis, and you seem to be agreeing that by most objective metrics, the Wii won the generation.
That's it.
It definitely does undermine its value, but doesn't change the fact that the Wii won last generation.
Escape Goat
Member
What people? Who says that? If it's even possible to "win" then Wii definitely did not.
The definition of "winning" depends on what metric someone wants to use to justify why they think they're on top.
If Nintendo wants to say they "won" last gen they point to hardware sales.
If Microsoft wants to say they "won" last gen they point to the attach rate.
If Sony wants to say they "won" last gen they lump all their hardware in together.
For me personally, what matters is how much software gets sold so that devs can keep making
games instead of closing up shop.
If Nintendo wants to say they "won" last gen they point to hardware sales.
If Microsoft wants to say they "won" last gen they point to the attach rate.
If Sony wants to say they "won" last gen they lump all their hardware in together.
For me personally, what matters is how much software gets sold so that devs can keep making
quality
Hyperactivity
Banned
In that case, the PS2 was a failure, as it made Sony cocky with the Ps3. And the Sega Genesis was a failure, cause it was followed up by the Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, and Dreamcast. And the NES was a failure, because its policies allowed for Sega to come in and steal a chink of the console market.
Still doesn't work because of DS. Unless you want to divide the DS in between the 6th and 7th generations, in which case I wouldn't be surprised in nintendo still won that one. Although that level of success for all 3 is REALLY nice, and I wish it could happen more
Usually Right
Banned
Well as I said, they left themselves with nothing to build off. So it depends what you're judging the war off and if the war is designed to strengthen the hypothetical nation for long term prosperity. If your definition of building a country successfully is short term success followed by years of decline, they certainly did win. Personally, I'd say Sony and MS in 2014 are happier with their performances last gen, regardless of the sales disparity, because it's created a platform on which to build. But if all you're interested in is looking at short term success, Wii won.
This is an amazing post with a Shamamallama twist at the end.
If attach rate can be used as a metric, Vita may very well win this portable gen in the eyes of some!
The GameCube sold almost as many systems as the Xbox. Both of those systems did nothing compared to the PS2. The PS2 dominated that console generation. This last generation also lasted longer with active support compared to the PS2 generation. The PS3 and Xbox 360 will not have the tail that the PS2 had. I think one reason the PS2 had such a long tail is how expensive the PS3 was.
What this tells us is that they won last generation but are clearly losing this one. That happens. By your measure, the PS2 was a "short term success" because Sony set themselves up for the disastrous PS3. It happens, nobody hits a home run with every swing.
You're changing the term in order to fit your worldview. The Wii Won. That's it. Is that saying the PS2 lost because the PS3 bombed compared to the PS2?
Why the Wii U failed has nothing to do with this disucssion.
Funny Story: I had a battered sausage and chips only yesterday with wife. We shared a bag of chips. On the way to the chip shop she says: "You keep your smelly battered sausage away from my chip bag". We both broke out laughing.
Screamapillar
Member
The install base speaks for itself. You can brush it off and say it was a "fad", or "but look at how the gap has gotten smaller over time", etc. But, 100 million units sold is 100 million units sold. Give Nintendo some credit for having the second best-selling home console of all time.
I think that's the point. I think there is no clear way of measuring victory unless someone wins by a landslide (perhaps like the PS2). That's when PR spin takes over.
Well, it should.
I love my Vita.
Usually Right
Banned
The PS2 didn't alienate customers or create feelings of disenchantment. Wii ruined any chance of me buying a Nintendo console again. Was it worth that $250 to Nintendo? Wii was a kamikaze pilot.
So, this is all about you. How you feel is a subjective opinion. We can objectively say that the Wii won. How you feel or I feel doesn't matter when we have objective data showing that the Wii won.
The PS3 sold much fewer consoles than the PS2. If the PS4 sells fewer consoles than the PS3 could we say that the PS3 is a kamikaze pilot?
Hyperactivity
Banned
I just have a question for you.
What games did you get on your Wii?
And your point is entirely subjective. Once again.
Btw, why is this thread still going. Everyone but a few stubborn and vocal minorities got over the Wii's victory and have accepted it
AcademicSaucer
Member
Actually Nintendo is slowly but surely abandoning wii u, the platform only has donkey kong from here to may
Well yea, the PS3 is what did that.
What is your evidence for this?
Omegasquash
Member
Cannot agree enough about the bolded. PS3 was too pricey out of the gate for most people. If we're talking strictly about sales volume, then it's clear to pick a winner, if we're talking about profit, it's clear to pick a winner.
I'm just thinking about more in terms of what was done by those systems in that generation. I mean...Sega going 32 bit and adding a CD system? Sure it was janky, but they did it and there are some memorable gems. And that audio could be Banderas quality good when it wanted to be.
Dreamcast? It failed hard, but...internet. On a console. And it wasn't even the first. I just wish there was more a focus on innovation and user friendliness than just sales. But again, it's all subjective. At least it is to me, anyway.
You're being subjective again. I enjoyed the Wii so much I bought a Wii U day one. There we go, now my opinion is the most recently stated and therefore correct one.
Nintendo won current/last gen so get over it. If Sony or Microsoft sold that many consoles they would claim victory. The fanboy outrage wouldn't be half of what is now. If you want to lump the Nintendo family of consoles together then the victory is more decisive. You (and me) but don't have to like it but the facts support Nintendo's decisive victory.
Their victory benefits all core gamers. Microsoft released Kinect and used a robust set of features for XOne. Sony added free games to PS+ and made far better tactical decisions for PS4.
Their victory benefits all core gamers. Microsoft released Kinect and used a robust set of features for XOne. Sony added free games to PS+ and made far better tactical decisions for PS4.
Southernfried Pimpin
Banned
It sold more so it won. Anything else is just opinion.
spookyfish
Member
This.
Based on the measure of EVERY OTHER generation -- console sales -- the Wii "won". People need to just deal with it.
Screamapillar
Member
That...isn't true at all. What are you talking about? Kart, Smash, X, Zelda, Bayo 2, etc, etc. By your logic, PS4 and Xbox 1 are being abandoned because there's nothing significant dated after Titanfall and Infamous in March. You're confusing normal, common gaps in release schedules with platform abandonment. An extremely odd thing to say.
Aaah, that's a Hallmark moment if ever I heard one
8-Bit Beast
Banned
I don't get your point considering I never said anything regarding this but well yea. The PS2 is out of production and is irrellivent to Sony now especially considering their reserves are gone. Its relevance now lies purely in digital distribution of the content.
My point was that the Wii reserves will not see Ninty through repeated failure. They have 3 consoles actively on the market and only one is performing well. Its not something they can continue forever and when their next system comes they need to hit home with whatever market they target. Wiis relevance now lies in the manner they handle the assets going forward.
Considering their poor handling of product naming that still continues with the 2DS and repeated excuses for the lack of Wii U software its not as if there is no reaaon to doubt Ninty will take steps in the right direction either.
I think people far too often get confused with what they like and what is the most successful. I like Nintendo games but I didn't like the Wii. It still won the generation. I don't like Sony's games (not since the PSX) but I still will spend the most time with the PS4 once it get a price drop and has some gmaes I want to play. These feelings hav enothing to do with what won or will win.
Usually Right
Banned
I'm sure there's more people that feel the opposite. Kind of implied with Wii U being a massive flop. Although part of the reason it's a failure is because it's just a bad console, another large part is, in my opinion, people were disappointed in Wii and Nintendo in general after Wii. Sure, my source is The People That I Know, which I don't expect to stand up in a war crimes trial. But I definitely think there's validity to the idea that Nintendo sacrificed long term sustainability for short term success with Wii. It's a system that was sold on the cheap with a gimmick that ended up damaging their brand power among the type of people who would typically have supported Wii U (like me).
If analogies were Pink Floyd albums, this post would be Ummagumma. Pure trash.
Though Ummagumma has "The narrow way", so it's still better than this.
Or maybe they are unrelated products, of which many people wanted one but not the other? Why does not wanting a new product mean the older one is retroactively a failure, when it clearly isn't?
I think there are a lot of posters that grew up with the Playstation being their NES/SNES. They are more emotionally attached to Sony than Nintendo. Sony had a rough go of it last generation. There are some sommon mistakes that people make and recency is one of them. I feel that a lot of Nintendo fans after living through the N64 and GC were high on the Wii's big success.
TheContact
Member
Wii won the gen. You say it's not a race but the generation ended and Wii was the monetary winner. Can't argue that even if you didn't like the Wii
Delusibeta
Banned
To win a console generation, you must sell the most consoles before everyone releases their new consoles. That's how it's always been, that's how it's always going to be. Hence, the Wii won the last console generation, and there is no disputing that.
spookyfish
Member
Get OUT with that logic and common sense!! We're here to move goalposts, make excuses, and come up with analogies of false equivalence!!
Usually Right
Banned
I grew up with a NES and SNES. That's why I hated Wii.
War has changed.
Your conclusion has yet to be drawn from even a single piece of evidence, you realize? The Wii U doesn't imply anything about the Wii. If it did, it always would have done, and that's impossible. Nobody was predicting 8 years ago the successor console would flop.
You then admit you have absolutely no source besides people you know but then for some reason follow that up with the idea your idea is valid anyway "just because".
And then you claim the Wii remote actually damaged Nintendos brand power, yet another ridiculous assumption based off of what... Your opinion?
dcx4610
Member
Wii won in the sense that a Toyota Corolla sells more than a sports car.
The Wii appealed to families, kids and casual gamers. It hit a demographic Microsoft and Sony considers a secondary concern.
The fact that the Wii was successful with a crowd that normally doesn't buy video games was both a success and a failure. The success was that it created a short term huge burst in sales and converted non-gamers into gamers. The failure is that crowd that bought the Wii wasn't loyal and moved on to casual experiences on their cell phones and never bought another console.
It temporary inflated video game sales numbers and hurt the industry. Nintendo further alienated the core audience and now they have backed themselves in a corner.
Was it worth it to win one generation when you potentially damaged the company beyond repair in the long run?
The Wii appealed to families, kids and casual gamers. It hit a demographic Microsoft and Sony considers a secondary concern.
The fact that the Wii was successful with a crowd that normally doesn't buy video games was both a success and a failure. The success was that it created a short term huge burst in sales and converted non-gamers into gamers. The failure is that crowd that bought the Wii wasn't loyal and moved on to casual experiences on their cell phones and never bought another console.
It temporary inflated video game sales numbers and hurt the industry. Nintendo further alienated the core audience and now they have backed themselves in a corner.
Was it worth it to win one generation when you potentially damaged the company beyond repair in the long run?