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[Whipped Spartan]

How did so many people online turn this into a negative thing some how? We all knew they were going do it eventually. From day one when we knew it was $500 and PS4 was $400. Everyone was going o yea $100 more for the bundled Kinect.


The outrage is weird. I could see if the mic array and camera sensors were built in to the box and they removed it but it is definitely a accessory. So why wouldn't a non Kinect system come out? Especially when so many kept asking. This all made sense.

Thanks Phil!

 

[soul creator]

And now all those people know how much it sucks, hence the lack of interest in k2.

It could be that.

Or they could just be waiting for another Dance Central, more family games and services, and/or price drop

 

[Leflus]

So, something I hadn't really thought about... since this Kinect-less SKU will be out concurrently with the $500 one that includes Kinect, is it possible that this new offering will be seen as the next gen version of what was regretfully labeled the "tard pack?"

It's all about perception. I'm wondering if having the old package still on shelves could harm the sales potential of the new SKU.

I don't think they will run into the same problem with the Xbox One. The kinectless XBO is a significantly more complete package than the X360 Core was.

Hell, the first X360 Core SKU didn't even come with a memory card.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

And now all those people know how much it sucks, hence the lack of interest in k2.

I'm willing to bet this is pretty accurate.

 

[Exploratory]

Must be depressing working on Fortaleza when you see Google Glass fizzling out.

Google Glass is fizzling out? Since when? Its not even out yet.

 

[Man]

The XB1 is now just a significantly weaker and inferiorly designed imitator of the PS4 at the same price as the PS4.

 

[JavaMind]

Tomorrow will be a great day... NPD DAY, let's see if was true that they want focus E3 only at games or if they are desperate with sales numbers...

 

[Pop]

This announcement is good, but at the same time it causes me to lose what little faith was left in Microsoft. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if, in their desperation, they released a beefed-up version of the Xbox One. It's the only thing stopping me from buying a Titanfall bundle today.

They can't do that

 

[Proponent]

The XB1 is now just a significantly weaker and inferiorly designed imitator of the PS4 at the same price as the PS4.

Yes.

I can't see why anyone would buy an XB1 over a PS4.

 

[Quadraphonic]

Tomorrow will be a great day... NPD DAY, let's see if was true that they want focus E3 only at games or if they are desperate with sales numbers...

It was 100% because of bad NPD numbers.

They need the pro-active changes in the public media now. As in: "Wow, those numbers are terrible, but it looks like the changes they made earlier this week will help."

If they made it on Thursday, or after the fact, it'd look like they panicked.

 

[soul creator]

Yes.

I can't see why anyone would buy an XB1 over a PS4.

Exactly, customers would never buy a weaker system with worse 3rd party ports. That's never happened. Ever. Nope. No other factors can matter when choosing a system.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Must be depressing working on Fortaleza when you see Google Glass fizzling out.

Because VR is going to take the world by storm, of course. Heh

 

[Chitown B]

Yes.

I can't see why anyone would buy an XB1 over a PS4.

I can. I like the Xbox controller, the IPs, and my achievements. I like the online service, and I like that I have a lot of friends on XBL. Those are reason enough for me. I'm not a pixel counter and it doesn't matter at all to me.

I'll eventually sell my PS3 and get a PS4 as well. But I don't get only buying a console because of this reason.

 

[tapedeck]

Believe it or not, it plays games too. Some you won't be able to play on any other platform. Cool.

Yup. Seems to be a big point many are conveniently skipping. Of course the same can be said for PS4 but Xbone is off to a pretty good start as far as exclusives go.

 

[Chaeotic]

Whilst it is the smart idea in the short run, long term is it really viable to have done this? It sends a mixed message to the consumer, not to mention confusing the average buyer. I did need a Kinect to use the platform, now I don't, but it is still an integral part of the machine?

Microsoft seem to be consistently behind the ball this gen, knee jerk reactions to knee jerk decisions. Long term, they really need to start listening to the overall community, and try to get ahead of the game, as Sony seem to have done during the R+D of the PS4 - with the Wii-fad having died out, hedging all bets on the Kinect was a horrible decision that hopefully does not turn out to be the turning point of a diminishing department. No competition does not equal a thriving, boundary pushing market.

 

[Chitown B]

And now all those people know how much it sucks, hence the lack of interest in k2.

The poster I quoted equated greatness with sales. So, which is it?

 

[Gnub]

This is going to tank sales for May. April probably not looking good (based on this price drop). So two months of poor sales and no game releases I sight....

Blood in the water.

 

[asvpxjad]

I won't decide on the xbox until I see what Halo 5 has to offer. Also would be cool if they had a halo 2 anneversary.

Happy with my PS4 for now and will only get the xbox for the console exclusives. My PS4 is my preffered 3rd party game console of choice.

 

[Subtervotion]

the original Kinect sold like 28 million units.

So about 1/3 of people who owned an Xbox 360 wanted the thing. Not a flop by any means but not something every Xbox owner wants either.

 

[Chitown B]

So about 1/3 of people who owned an Xbox 360 wanted the thing. Not a flop by any means but not something every Xbox owner wants either.

it came out over halfway into the life cycle of the console. And no peripheral has 100% attach rate, ever.

This is going to tank sales for May. April probably not looking good (based on this price drop). So two months of poor sales and no game releases I sight....

Blood in the water.

Uh, Watch Dogs is out in two weeks. Wolfenstein, Murdered: Soul Suspect. Then The Evil Within and Destiny in August/Sept. Plus indie releases.

 

[Subtervotion]

it came out over halfway into the life cycle of the console. And no peripheral has 100% attach rate, ever.

But the point is not every single Xbox owner wants one. Sony didn't include its camera for a reason. MS tried to force Kinect on us. Apparently it didn't work like they planned. The numbers are talking and MS is finally listening.

 

[NullPointer]

This is going to tank sales for May. April probably not looking good (based on this price drop). So two months of poor sales and no game releases I sight....

Blood in the water.

And yet for once I actually have some real optimism for the Xbox. Crazy times in the console gaming world. E3 will be something.

 

[Chitown B]

But the point is not every single Xbox owner wants one. Sony didn't include its camera for a reason. MS tried to force Kinect on us. Apparently it didn't work like they planned. The numbers are talking and MS is finally listening.

I didn't want a bluray drive. Could've saved money by not including it. I've downloaded all my games. Why should I have to have a disc drive forced on me in 2014? I haven't used a disc drive on my mac in 5 years.

Because some people do want it. So, you don't always get exactly what you want and you get stuff you won't use, occasionally.

 

[Cidd]

Is there anything about the Xbox One that MS stand by? seriously, it's like every month they change their mind.

 

[Hawk269]

Yes.

I can't see why anyone would buy an XB1 over a PS4.

Perhaps some people want games that are only available on a Xbox Platform? I mean, I am no scholar or anything, but I would think that there is a reason they sold over 4million units in about 6 months. I have both, so because I bought one am I an idiot or less of gamer? How about the fact that I use my Xbox One a lot more than my PS4 because there are games I prefer on the Xbox One that are not available on the PS4.

 

[Subtervotion]

I didn't want a bluray drive. Could've saved money by not including it. I've downloaded all my games. Why should I have to have a disc drive forced on me in 2014? I haven't used a disc drive on my mac in 5 years.

Because some people do want it. So, you don't always get exactly what you want and you get stuff you won't use, occasionally.

I see what you're trying to do. But what you have to realize is numbers talk. The vast majority of people who buy consoles are used to discs. I'd be willing to wager that 90% of console gamers have at least one disc based game. That cannot be said for Kinect. It is fairly apparent by now that Kinect supporters do not encompass 90% of the console user base.

You are the rarity here, less than 10% of the user base. When the majority of the user base doesn't want discs I can guarantee you there will be a version of the console without the disc drive.

It must also be noted, that the disc drive costs a lot less than the Kinect.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Is there anything about the Xbox One that MS stand by? seriously, it's like every month they change their mind.

That's good.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Yes.

I can't see why anyone would buy an XB1 over a PS4.

The decision annoys me, but let's not go too far now. The Xbox One still has a number of tiles you simply can't or will never get on a PS4, and Kinect, which I firmly believe makes the system better, is something I will continue using.

 

[Guevara]

Is there anything about the Xbox One that MS stand by? seriously, it's like every month they change their mind.

At some point they'll admit THE CLOUD was largely bullshit and then the healing can begin.

 

[Liberty4all]

Yes.

I can't see why anyone would buy an XB1 over a PS4.

Exclusives.

I do think though dropping Kinect at this point is a mistake.

For me personally the Xbone should have been 399 WITH the camera ... To make up for it being a weaker system compared to the PS4. The problem was never Kinect, it was the price difference combined with being a weaker system.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Yup. Seems to be a big point many are conveniently skipping. Of course the same can be said for PS4 but Xbone is off to a pretty good start as far as exclusives go.

The thing is if you're just going to get one, it'll be pretty hard to sell someone on Xbox One. They will really have to like the exclusives it will get over the PS4's. Maybe some care about continuing their xbox live gold, gamerscore, and such too perhaps. If you have a PS4 and can be persuaded to buy a Xbox One it's different story.

 

[Myansie]

it came out over halfway into the life cycle of the console. And no peripheral has 100% attach rate, ever.




Uh, Watch Dogs is out in two weeks. Wolfenstein, Murdered: Soul Suspect. Then The Evil Within and Destiny in August/Sept. Plus indie releases.

Those are all multi plats that will look better on the equally priced ps4. They'll drive sales, but for the wrong company.

 

[Cidd]

That's good.

And what makes you think they wont change their mind again in a negative way?

I'm all for them "listening to fans" and all that bs, but when you came out preaching something is an integral part of a product only to change their mind 6 months in. it makes them look weak and desperate, I find it hard to trust this company.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

At some point they'll admit THE CLOUD was largely bullshit and then the healing can begin.

I think we can let them off the hook for this if they just shut up about it. Do like Titan Fall devs, just call them dedicated servers that store information in it (like AI saves, and real time patches aka Sunset Overdrive's use). No more power of the cloud making Xbox One 600% powerful.

And what makes you think they wont change their mind again in a negative way?

I'm all for them "listening to fans" and all that bs, but when you came out preaching something is an integral part of a product only to change their mind 6 months in. it makes them look weak and desperate, I find it hard to trust this company.

Interesting thought. I remember someone saying that they could go back to drm. Them easily flipping switches makes it seem like given the opportunity they probably would re-enable disk drm. Maybe if they take the lead world wide somehow, and by a huge margin. So that actually has a low chance of happening, especially with Mattrick gone.

 

[Sydle]

At some point they'll admit THE CLOUD was largely bullshit and then the healing can begin.

Eh, they already showed a demo at Build proving there's something there. Spencer even commented it wasn't just a one-off demo, suggesting it's for a game.

Its benefits to games is much more apparent than Kinect. I hope they continue working on it.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Yup. Seems to be a big point many are conveniently skipping. Of course the same can be said for PS4 but Xbone is off to a pretty good start as far as exclusives go.

indeed it is. The exclusives picture for the Xbox One is quite exciting.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Exclusives.

I do think though dropping Kinect at this point is a mistake.

For me personally the Xbone should have been 399 WITH the camera ... To make up for it being a weaker system compared to the PS4. The problem was never Kinect, it was the price difference combined with being a weaker system.

399 with kinect will be too cheap and also cost MS a big loss. I think they did the right move with 399 w/ no kinect. There are different variables to choose also like i prefer the xbox one controller so i rather get games on that platform. xbox live online service and exclusives ips that i prefer from Microsoft,

 

[Chitown B]

The thing is if you're just going to get one, it'll be pretty hard to sell someone on Xbox One. They will really have to like the exclusives it will get over the PS4's. Maybe some care about continuing their xbox live gold, gamerscore, and such too perhaps. If you have a PS4 and can be persuaded to buy a Xbox One it's different story.

are you really saying you think most people buy their gaming consoles objectively?

Almost everyone I have ever known has bought the next version of the console they already have because they're used to it and like the exclusive series.

 

[BruiserBear]

This announcement is good, but at the same time it causes me to lose what little faith was left in Microsoft. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if, in their desperation, they released a beefed-up version of the Xbox One. It's the only thing stopping me from buying a Titanfall bundle today.

There isn't a chance in hell of that happening. These consoles aren't designed in a few months. They're designed years ahead of time.

How did so many people online turn this into a negative thing some how? We all knew they were going do it eventually. From day one when we knew it was $500 and PS4 was $400. Everyone was going o yea $100 more for the bundled Kinect.

Some people have become invested in the XB1 failing. Some of it is run of the mill console wars, but for others they've drawn a line in the sand, fighting some "cause" or something, so everything must be spun as bad. Getting rid of their DRM policies. Bad. Titanfall. Bad. Bundling Titanfall. More bad. Removing Kinect to cut the price. Still bad. Insomniac making a cool looking XB1 exclusive. Insomniac bad. ET cartridges dug up in the desert. That's bad too.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

are you really saying you think most people buy their gaming consoles objectively?

Almost everyone I have ever known has bought the next version of the console they already have because they're used to it and like the exclusive series.

I mentioned liking the exclusives more/too much to pass up if you will, and the wanting to continue with their live gold (especially if they want to keep it for 360). People that have no attachment may want the one they see is better. If I could pick any phone not being limited to the ones tied to my services I'd try to get the better one, especially in the same price range. People are attached to nintendo because of it's exclusives so they have to get WiiU for another example.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

When did this whole weaker system should be cheaper thing start? This gen?

Can never remember hearing this before.

 

[Liberty4all]

When did this whole weaker system should be cheaper thing start? This gen?

Can never remember hearing this before.

I recall arguing about it in the early 80s when debating Atari vs Intellivision vs Colecovision on the school bus.

 

[wapplew]

Whilst it is the smart idea in the short run, long term is it really viable to have done this? It sends a mixed message to the consumer, not to mention confusing the average buyer. I did need a Kinect to use the platform, now I don't, but it is still an integral part of the machine?

Microsoft seem to be consistently behind the ball this gen, knee jerk reactions to knee jerk decisions. Long term, they really need to start listening to the overall community, and try to get ahead of the game, as Sony seem to have done during the R+D of the PS4 - with the Wii-fad having died out, hedging all bets on the Kinect was a horrible decision that hopefully does not turn out to be the turning point of a diminishing department. No competition does not equal a thriving, boundary pushing market.

Yup, this is short sighted decision in my opinion, and a save one.
It's nothing wrong with save decision, but I rather they stick with their more ambitious "vision".

 

[Chitown B]

When did this whole weaker system should be cheaper thing start? This gen?

Can never remember hearing this before.

I think it's because the systems are finally on almost identical hardware and architecture, so people want to nit pick. Systems have never been equal, and they are almost always the same price point.

It's not like competitors check with each other to even the specs before release. One will always be slightly more powered than the other. But multiplat releases play mostly the same because the publishers don't want to screw themselves.

 

[BruiserBear]

Yup, this is short sighted decision in my opinion, and a save one.
It's nothing wrong with save decision, but I rather they stick with their more ambitious "vision".

Ambitions are meaningless when your audience doesn't care about them. That's what makes this a smart decision. If the Kinect ever provides an awesome reason to buy one later, people will always have the choice.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

When did this whole weaker system should be cheaper thing start? This gen?

Can never remember hearing this before.

don't know when it started, but shouldn't that always be the case? it'd be asinine to spend more for a lesser product.

 

[sangreal]

don't know when it started, but shouldn't that always be the case? it'd be asinine to spend more for a lesser product.

The problem is you're deciding a product is lesser based on hardware specs alone. The GameCube was cheaper than the PS2, unquestionably more powerful, and yet it was the lesser product and its popularity reflected that. The XBOX was generally the same price as the PS2 also. You don't even have to go that far back though. Most multiplat games were better on 360 yet the PS3 enjoyed relatively equal popularity despite being more expensive

People aren't just shopping for raw power. It's about the games

 

[jroc74]

Sony did fuck all other than drop the price and improve the firmware, and still had better WW sales. Nothing on this scale, even dropping sixaxis would be no comparison, I can't even think of one they could have done.

edit: oh of course, it'd be like them dropping bluray within 6 months.

Exactly...I only remember Sony taking 2 things out, not....relentlessly ripping shit out..... as someone put it the other day.. And I dont even think removing Other OS did as much harm to their bottom line vs dumping backwards compatibility.

That doesnt even begin to compare to this.

PS3 has a BLU-RAY that was worth the price by itself

This. Some must dont remember how much a blu ray player costs at the time....you were basically getting it for free with the PS3. Sony did an update to add 3D movie playback to it in the last few years....no separate 3D blu ray player needed.

That didnt even happen with all stand alone players...only certain ones.

Couldn't help myself. Even though I really like my Kinect.

Funny..

Legit shook.

Funny ...and scary looking.

This news makes the Share button so iconic. Its a testament to Sony's long term vision staying strong, and MS ditching whatever it thinks will help get more sales.

Makes Sony look like they actually know what they're doing, I agree.

You can record a 30s clip from Game DVR (End Clip Now -> 30s). Still need to launch it first, though. I just checked, and if you pin it in the first slot, it takes ~4s and 5 inputs (Home/left/left/A/A) to record a clip, which isn't too bad... but even after setting it up specifically like that for a best-case scenario, that's still a few seconds and about 3 inputs more than it probably should be, and most people won't have it set up like that.

They definitely need to do something to make that easier. Maybe re-purpose the shutdown/turn controller off menu (holding Home), since it's not like there's not plenty of space on it. Add a button for Record That, and have the selection default to it (and don't have any confirmation, since there's no real harm in recording a clip accidentally), so it'd just be hold Home, hit A. Also add a button for twitch broadcasting, and if they get around to adding a screenshot function, that too.

This actually sound like a great idea....it would be sad if they didnt use some method like this....because it would go along with what someone said the other day....MS might need to hire some GAF folks to help them with the XBO.

I just caught wind of this:

http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/14/5717156/mmos-free-to-play-games-xbox-live-gold-paywall

http://www.joystiq.com/2014/05/13/elder-scrolls-online-free-to-play-games-still-require-xbox-live/

Well...that still kinda sucks...seems PSN still has some other advantages to Gold.

 

[Fredrik]

don't know when it started, but shouldn't that always be the case? it'd be asinine to spend more for a lesser product.

It depends on how you define a lesser product. Listen to the Android fans talking about Apple phones and they'll make it sound moronic to buy an Apple phone when comparing phones side by side with specs, media features and config options etc. Listen to an Apple fan and they'll gladly pay more for what they believe is by far a better product to own when ignoring specs and compare quality in casing, usability and software etc.

 

[hooijdonk17]

It depends on how you define a lesser product. Listen to the Android fans talking about Apple phones and they'll make it sound moronic to buy an Apple phone when comparing phones side by side with specs, media features and config options etc. Listen to an Apple fan and they'll gladly pay more for what they believe is by far a better product to own when ignoring specs and compare quality in casing, usability and software etc.

If you drop rationality as a concern, you could pay any price for anything. That neither makes it a valid argument, nor renders discussion about it pointless. (Even if you did believe this, you would be hard pressed to explain how Android's smartphone market growth is basically dwarfing Apple's smartphone growth - just because some people continue to act irrationally does not mean the whole market will).

Bone and PS4 are basically the same product; they are direct substitutes that can imitate each other's utility to a 90% relevance. One of them can do it better (in every single way) at the same price. Good luck selling the other.