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[SteveWinwood]

Miyamoto plays dota confirmed.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Yeah, no. NSMBU is not similar to DKC, which is not similar to SM3DW. You're speaking from a place of ignorance. You wont see complexity if you aren't looking for it.

They all are doing the same things I've seen many times before. The suits can change, they can add in guest characters, etc..it's all still the same familiar thing.

 

[Bytes]

Nintendo's focus was never on casual gamers and from the start their intentions were always to just use those titles and a stepping stone towards more complex games, not to have those be the only games.

This guy gets it. With the Wii and DS, Nintendo thought they could expand the base of gamers by making games for the casuals with the intention of leading them to more complex games. Instead, those casual gamers simply moved on to the next casual fare. I think Miyamoto's statement is an admission that there's no point in chasing the casuals anymore.

 

[Coffee Dog]

So what gams is Nintendo working on to reflect this new-found philosophy?

Considering W101, DKCTF and pikmin 3 all fit into what he's talking about I'd say those.

You just dont care about them because you're a

Spoiler

passive gamer

 

[Panajev2001a]

That makes sense.

All the tutorials in their core games, Nabbit, even going far as dumbing down some stuff like the Zelda DS games.

But that's what casual stands for, "non-committed."

Nintendo's fault was committing to a non-committed audience. And it bit them back at the end and now they're trying to make up that loss.

I think they've done a admirable job so far.

I love how he says "Nintendo doesn't need to reach out to the (smartphone/casual) audience anymore!" Nothing but love reading that!

Well put .

 

[And_Gignac]

But Shiggy was drooling all over the casual market last gen.

Are his feelings hurt because him (and Nintendo overall) never implemented a strategy to avoid the casuals migration towards smartphones?

 

[boiled goose]

I partly blame Nintendo for not coming up with better systems to incentive loyalty. Ie better services and a proper unified account system and better game and service integration.

 

[Sadist]

Wii Sports had plenty of mechanics to explore and master and is a great game with friends. So was Sports Resort.

You're saying Nintendoland WASN'T aimed at the casual crowd who bought the Wii for motion-controlled gaming? Who was it aimed at, the core? LOL

Bridge game.

I don't know if you played Nintendo Land, but at it's core it's far more "game-like" when you compare it to Wii Sports (Resort). With Wii Sports all you had to do was pick up the controller (and in some cases the Nunchuk) and there you go, you're playing. Everybody understood how to swing the club with Golf, swing a bat while playing baseball and throw punches during boxing. It's really easy to understand.

Nintendo Land however... isn't so easy to understand. Metroid Blast, Pikmin Adventure, Mario Chase etc. are all games that need more time to be explained because the controls are more complex. While developing Nintendo Land and it's games Nintendo thought they could persuade new players to try out more "difficult" experiences. But they didn't. The general public (and a lot of folks who bought the Wii) wants simplicity above all things and Nintendo Land is way too hard for them to understand.

I think the comment of Miyamoto refers to the Nintendo Land experiment anyway.

 

[Trike]

But Shiggy was drooling all over the casual market last gen.

Are his feelings hurt because him (and Nintendo overall) never implemented a strategy to avoid the casuals migration towards smartphones?

what plan could avoid smartphone migration? Destroying all smartphones?

 

[Ricky 7]

Miyamoto finally realised that these hoes ain't loyal.

 

[Vlade]

Wii Sports had plenty of mechanics to explore and master and is a great game with friends. So was Sports Resort.

You're saying Nintendoland WASN'T aimed at the casual crowd who bought the Wii for motion-controlled gaming? Who was it aimed at, the core? LOL

I read Miyamoto's comment that we are discussing

 

[Nibel]

I love how Miyamoto is apparently not allowed to change his opinions or views on certain subjects according to some people. It's as if most of these faultless visionaries have waited for this moment to crawl out of their holes just to point their fingers at him and say "I told you so, nje nje!".

Bringing up 6-years old Wii Music as an argument that Miymoto betrayed the Sacred Hardcore Crowd That Does Not Forget Or Forgive ® tells more about you than it does about Miyamoto. "But he did this and he did that and said this and that" - people can change, companies can change and this industry especially changes almost from year to year. Stop being so resentful about software that wasn't even targeted at you in the first place.

 

[Pikma]

So basically Candy Crush, which core gamers despise. Yet, I know casual gaming adult women who will spend DAYS trying to get past a single level.

Heh, funny example. See, those adults you see playing for hours are NOT pathetic, they're actually what we need more of, they're the opposite, those guys rather spend more time and effort in that particular product, instead of fucking cheat their way through it by paying ridiculous amounts of money for temporal in-game advantages just for the instant gratification. It's funny because the game's whole model is based on the latter, not the former, King.com would love for those other guys to give up and opt for giving them money instead.

 

[Sadist]

I love how Miyamoto is apparently not allowed to change his opinions or views on certain subjects according to some people. It's as if most of these faultless visionaries have waited for this moment to crawl out of their holes just to point their fingers at him and say "I told you so, nje nje!".

Bringing up 6-years old Wii Music as an argument that Miymoto betrayed the Sacred Hardcore Crowd That Does Not Forget Or Forgive ® tells more about you than it does about Miyamoto. "But he did this and he did that and said this and that" - people can change, companies can change and this industry especially changes almost from year to year. Stop being so resentful about software that wasn't even targeted at you in the first place.

Spoiler

That's how I'm reading those comments anyway

 

[Pikma]

They all are doing the same things I've seen many times before. The suits can change, they can add in guest characters, etc..it's all still the same familiar thing.

Oh you're one of those "all platformers are the same, I've seen them" people. :lol

Won't even bother with you.

 

[Sendou]

They all are doing the same things I've seen many times before. The suits can change, they can add in guest characters, etc..it's all still the same familiar thing.

Truly nothing gets past you.

 

[Coffee Dog]

They all are doing the same things I've seen many times before. The suits can change, they can add in guest characters, etc..it's all still the same familiar thing.

There is truly no better display of ignorance than feigning knowledge.

 

[LegendofLex]

They need to work at retaining customers better, they train people that once they start developing a new console their support for the current console dries up quite considerably...

It's rare that they ever do anything to specifically support customers who were hooked by a specific game these days. There's just one racing game, one entry in each franchise per console (except rare cases like Galaxy when people eat up one of their favorite projects), etc.

 

[Mysterious]

Spot-on comment from Miyamoto. Despite sharing the Wii branding, the Wii U just wasn't designed for casuals; it's Nintendo's most complex console to date. Hardcore-converted casuals, maybe, but the Wii failed to convert the majority of them. Many were unaware that there was life after Wii Sports.

lol ... wtf ...

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Bridge game.

I don't know if you played Nintendo Land, but at it's core it's far more "game-like" when you compare it to Wii Sports (Resort). With Wii Sports all you had to do was pick up the controller (and in some cases the Nunchuk) and there you go, you're playing. Everybody understood how to swing the club with Golf, swing a bat while playing baseball and throw punches during boxing. It's really easy to understand.

Nintendo Land however... isn't so easy to understand. Metroid Blast, Pikmin Adventure, Mario Chase etc. are all games that need more time to be explained because the controls are more complex. While developing Nintendo Land and it's games Nintendo thought they could persuade new players to try out more "difficult" experiences. But they didn't. The general public (and a lot of folks who bought the Wii) wants simplicity above all things and Nintendo Land is way too hard for them to understand.

I think the comment of Miyamoto refers to the Nintendo Land experiment anyway.

It's pretty clear he hasn't played Nintendoland

 

[DoktorEvil]

They all are doing the same things I've seen many times before. The suits can change, they can add in guest characters, etc..it's all still the same familiar thing.

You and Egoraptor, always holding onto nostalgia to justify that current platformers are all the same, regardless of evidence contrary to that fact.

lol ... wtf ...

It's not. A gamepad isn't a "casual" controller, it's very similar to a game gear. It's the core "mobile to console" gamers that the pad is for.

Going from a touch game to a controller/gamepad would be jarring and intimidating to "casual" gamers.

 

[MegaMelon]

Respect. Nintendo needs to focus on it's current customers and the people who want to buy Nintendo games. Not saying casual gaming is bad at all, just that I don't think Nintendo is the type who should be pursuing it.

 

[AmyS]

That's what Nintendo is RIGHT NOW.
PS4 ? It doesn't have any game.
It only sold well because they "won" the EA 2013, imo.

Heh, okay.

 

[Captain Europe]

They all are doing the same things I've seen many times before. The suits can change, they can add in guest characters, etc..it's all still the same familiar thing.

If you're using this logic, then every single game in a genre does the same thing.

 

[DSix]

Right... And that's why Wii U launched with Nintendoland as its premier title. Of course they would still love to cater to that audience, they've just realized that they can not have it anymore, similarly to what happened to the post-Mattrick Microsoft.

That and the Wii U name. They realized way too late that the Wii audience was done and playing fucking solitaire on iOS.

I'm not complaining, they finally understand what it's about and it's a good thing.

 

[Chaos17]

So basically Candy Crush, which core gamers despise. Yet, I know casual gaming adult women who will spend DAYS trying to get past a single level.

That's where you didn't understand Miyamoto.
And that's what Miyamoto disliked about these costumers : why are they spending time/money on such games while you have game with more "depth" elsewhere than on mobile ? Why aren't they making the effort to try something else ? Is just because they're lazy ? (My vote is "YES")

Some people will say it's Nintendo fault to not have do their job like advertising.
But come on, a lot of these mobiles phone games don't do advertisement (or a very little, the one one I saw in France TV was Candy crush) and they are able to make millions.

I can understand why he is bittersweetten about these costumers.

 

[spekkeh]

This guy gets it. With the Wii and DS, Nintendo thought they could expand the base of gamers by making games for the casuals with the intention of leading them to more complex games. Instead, those casual gamers simply moved on to the next casual fare. I think Miyamoto's statement is an admission that there's no point in chasing the casuals anymore.

That would be a pretty dumb thing to say, given that the four years of Wii/DS hegemony made so much money it effectively bought them twenty years to do whatever the fuck they want. It is always worthwhile to find the new blue ocean, with casuals or not.

I maintain that too many GAFfers just read what they want to read. That Nintendo is back in the fold and going to compete with Xbox/Sony. Return of the king in the console wars stuff.

Rather, Miyamoto reaffirms his disdain for time waste, lazy Skinner box games that permeate mobile and online. Bottom of the barrel stuff and people that are content with that. It's a statement that Nintendo sticks by quality gameplay, and that shareholders that want a change in direction are operating against Nintendo's identity.

 

[IsntChrisL]

I'm glad to publicly hear a Nintendo head take this stance. It paints a better looking picture for future Wii U software.

 

[Papacheeks]

Hopefully this outlook Miyamoto has will rub off on the rest of Nintendo.

They've needed this wake up call for a long time now.

Hopefully we see him being producer's on more games that might be new IP's,or ones that Nintendo has been sitting on for many years.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Here's what I imagine the subtext is... "Smartphones and tablets have won the casual space, and we won't put our games on another platform so it's dead to us. We plan to replace that lost revenue with new QOL products, and our remaining games will be mostly made for the core gamer."

Is pathetic really properly translated though? That's an oftly harsh word for Miyamoto to use.

 

[DoktorEvil]

That would be a pretty dumb thing to say, given that the four years of Wii/DS hegemony made so much money it effectively bought them twenty years to do whatever the fuck they want. It is always worthwhile to find the new blue ocean, with casuals or not.

I maintain that too many GAFfers just read what they want to read. That Nintendo is back in the fold and going to compete with Xbox/Sony. Return of the king in the console wars stuff.

Rather, Miyamoto reaffirms his disdain for time waste, lazy Skinner box games that permeate mobile and online. Bottom of the barrel stuff and people that are content with that. It's a statement that Nintendo sticks by quality gameplay, and that shareholders that want a change in direction are operating against Nintendo's identity.

I hope the B of D holds the line and doesn't allow any corporate manipulation/hostile takeovers to do that. I happen to believe that Nintendo's strategy is the correct course of action and they show to have the cash reserves to do that.

 

[Sendou]

But come on, a lot of these mobiles phone games don't do advertisement (or a very little, the one one I saw in France TV was Candy crush) and they are able to make millions.

Candy Crash has seen a lot of marketing.

 

[Coffee Dog]

So basically Candy Crush, which core gamers despise. Yet, I know casual gaming adult women who will spend DAYS trying to get past a single level.

Those women aren't why candy crush makes money. thats why there's a problem.

 

[Espada]

Here's what I imagine the subtext is... "Smartphones and tablets have won the casual space, and we won't put our games on another platform so it's dead to us. We plan to replace that lost revenue with new QOL products, and our remaining games will be mostly made for the core gamer."

Is pathetic really properly translated though? That's an oftly harsh word for Miyamoto to use.

Yeah, something has to have been lost in translation. I'm surprised at how strong a sentiment he's expressing, and publicly at that.

It's one that I feel applies to a lot of gamers as well. While casual folks will be content to the time of throwaway stuff in your average app store, a version of that mentality exists in many gamers. A complete refusal, or at lease severe resistance, to trying something different.

But yeah, the hope is that this quote is reflective of a change within Nintendo and they go whole hog into appealing to more invested game enthusiasts.

 

[jay]

It has probably been said before, but for all the criticism of the Wii, Nintendo repeatedly went on record saying they were trying to move players upstream from more casual player to more dedicated player content. They always wanted and planned for things like Wii Sports (and then Nintendoland) to ensnare people who would then become interested in the deeper games Nintendo publish. That failed horribly, but it is misconstruing things to a degree to simply yell, "Miyamoto loves casuals when they pay him lol!"

 

[Dambrosi]

In the first quote it sounds like his definition of "casual gamers" includes gamers looking for a story-driven and "immersive" experience. Like people who play a game for the story/settings more than the gameplay itself.

That's cool. It matches my definition of "casual" now, too.

Spoiler

Gone Home can suck a lime.

Nintendo going hardcore. Metroid Souls confirmed.

Hey. Fixed that for ya.

 

[SuperCambot]

Here's what I imagine the subtext is... "Smartphones and tablets have won the casual space, and we won't put our games on another platform so it's dead to us. We plan to replace that lost revenue with new QOL products, and our remaining games will be mostly made for the core gamer."

Is pathetic really properly translated though? That's an oftly harsh word for Miyamoto to use.

Yeah, I think they goosed the tone of his remarks with some flowery translation.

But the message is still intact.

 

[nordique]

That would be a pretty dumb thing to say, given that the four years of Wii/DS hegemony made so much money it effectively bought them twenty years to do whatever the fuck they want. It is always worthwhile to find the new blue ocean, with casuals or not.

I maintain that too many GAFfers just read what they want to read. That Nintendo is back in the fold and going to compete with Xbox/Sony. Return of the king in the console wars stuff.

Rather, Miyamoto reaffirms his disdain for time waste, lazy Skinner box games that permeate mobile and online. Bottom of the barrel stuff and people that are content with that. It's a statement that Nintendo sticks by quality gameplay, and that shareholders that want a change in direction are operating against Nintendo's identity.

This right here is what I got from those quotes, fwiw

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

It's pretty clear he hasn't played Nintendoland

Yeah I have. I own it.

It was meant to be the Wii Sports (e.g. grab the wide audience and introduce the system's mechanics) of the Wii U. In fact, Iwata later apologized because Nintendoland HADN'T performed the same role as Wii Sports (a.k.a sold the system to the mainstream)

http://www.edge-online.com/news/iwata-nintendo-land-has-not-fulfilled-the-same-role-as-wii-sports/

People who think that the Wii U was first aimed to be some sort of hardcore wet-dream are fooling themselves. It has a TABLET (aimed at the iPad crowd) and has the word "Wii" crammed into the title. Who exactly was meant to buy it? Surely, they shifted back to the core audience after "dem casuals" didn't bite, but to say that the initial aim of the Wii U was not to grab the casuals is false.

Is pathetic really properly translated though? That's an oftly harsh word for Miyamoto to use.

Wouldn't surprise me if it was accurate. What the full statement says (paraphrased) is "there are customers who want to be entertained. I do not like those customers and I wish they would move on to my definition of a more-advanced game".

Miyamoto and other Nintendo devs have expressed this opinion before. They expressed it on the DS when NSMB became a hit but they didn't want to make 2D Mario anymore. They expressed it again on the Wii when they didn't want to make Wii Sports or 2D Mario any more. Nintendo devs want to go back to the Gamecube era of just making the games that they want to make, profit be darned! It's a selfish attitude (or artistic/creative attitude, depending on what side of the fence you fall) that is not aimed at pleasing the consumer. It's a bad attitude, IMO. If you make something that the customer wants, why would you pull it away from them and say "no, no you peasant. That is pathetic. I want you to reach out and experience something that I want you to enjoy"

 

[dimb]

They tried. It worked for a while. Then it failed and blew up in their faces. I mean, where has Miyamoto been the last 10 years? What's the last new core IP we've gotten from him? Pikmin? He basically spent the last 10 years personally chasing the casual audience and now that they don't want him anymore he's trying to come crawling back to these more hardcore gamers?

Hardcore video games.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Yeah I have. I own it.

It was meant to be the Wii Sports (e.g. grab the wide audience and introduce the system's mechanics) of the Wii U. In fact, Iwata later apologized because Nintendoland HADN'T performed the same role as Wii Sports (a.k.a sold the system to the mainstream)

http://www.edge-online.com/news/iwata-nintendo-land-has-not-fulfilled-the-same-role-as-wii-sports/

People who think that the Wii U was first aimed to be some sort of hardcore wet-dream are fooling themselves. It has a TABLET (aimed at the iPad crowd) and has the word "Wii" crammed into the title. Who exactly was meant to buy it? Surely, they shifted back to the core audience after "dem casuals" didn't bite, but to say that the initial aim of the Wii U was not to grab the casuals is false.

It was aimed at the 3DS crowd, not the iPad crowd.

It's a mobile to console device.

The gamepad howeve is really well suited for FPS games.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Yeah I have. I own it.

It was meant to be the Wii Sports (e.g. grab the wide audience and introduce the system's mechanics) of the Wii U. In fact, Iwata later apologized because Nintendoland HADN'T performed the same role as Wii Sports (a.k.a sold the system to the mainstream)

http://www.edge-online.com/news/iwata-nintendo-land-has-not-fulfilled-the-same-role-as-wii-sports/

People who think that the Wii U was first aimed to be some sort of hardcore wet-dream are fooling themselves. It has a TABLET (aimed at the iPad crowd) and has the word "Wii" crammed into the title. Who exactly was meant to buy it? Surely, they shifted back to the core audience after "dem casuals" didn't bite, but to say that the initial aim of the Wii U was not to grab the casuals is false.

Quit strawmanning. Just because Nintendoland is more complex than Wii sports and has a larger learning curve doesnt mean anyone's saying it's a "hardcore wet dream".

 

[Kai Dracon]

It has probably been said before, but for all the criticism of the Wii, Nintendo repeatedly went on record saying they were trying to move players upstream from more casual player to more dedicated player content. They always wanted and planned for things like Wii Sports (and then Nintendoland) to ensnare people who would then become interested in the deeper games Nintendo publish. That failed horribly, but it is misconstruing things to a degree to simply yell, "Miyamoto loves casuals when they pay him lol!"

A lot of this misunderstanding seems based in the cliches about "dirty casuals" that have become a narrative over the past decade. Due to that I think a lot of people are in for a shock if they think Miyamoto's comments mean Nintendo is about to release Ultra 256 with 16gb of GDDR5 ram and buy 10 western studios to develop "Uncharted killers".

 

[tesla246]

Miyamoto +10 respect!

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

Quit strawmanning. Just because Nintendoland is more complex than Wii sports and has a larger learning curve doesnt mean anyone's saying it's a "hardcore wet dream".

Strawmanning? I specifically said

People who think that the Wii U was first aimed to be some sort of hardcore wet-dream are fooling themselves

I am talking about the Wii U in general not just NintendoLand and some people in this thread ARE saying that the Wii U was some core-focused machine from the get-go. I say that it was not.

Please read what I say fully before taking quotes and literally cramming your own words into them.

 

[LonDonE]

WOW!! just wow! i am shocked to hear this from Miyamoto san and very happy! if this is how he is feeling then maybe more of the higher ups at Nintendo feel this way too!
I have always said that if Nintendo got their stuff together and gave the core gamers a powerhouse console and finally mended broken relationships with the third parties then they would become A HUGE player within gaming again!

A Nintendo console with all the first party goodness they always give us coupled with full third party support would be unstoppable! and imagine a proper online system ala PSN and Xbox live with full virtual console games implemented! with like a Club Nintendo elite program which gives you free downloadable virtual console games? just think about it, Nintendo has over 30 years worth of legacy content, numerous all time greatest games on a plethora of systems! why they didn't give the Wii u a proper virtual console with near enough EVERY nes, snes, n64, game cube, wii, game boy, gba, game boy colour, dsi, master system,mega drive, Sega Saturn, Sega cd,EVERYTHING!
I would gladly pay a small fee for free virtual console games!!

The retro games scene is HUGE and is very expensive! imagine if nintendo invested money so that they could release near enough every retro game from every retro console from the past, Amiga, commodore, spectrum, Atari, Sega, Neo Geo, the list is endless! imagine if nintendo got as many of those systems games working on virtual console that would be a megaton! since right now getting hold of some retro games is a expensive endeavour! Nintendo WiiU could become known as THE retro gamers console of choice! especially if the virtual console allowed you to play said games in original form and also in 1080p 60fps! i would love to buy Sega Saturn games up scaled in HD.
I would a modern console with easy access to retro games of old.

Seriously why has Nintendo drip fed us games on virtual console for WiiU? at the very least we should of gotten the Wii virtual console all on Wii u running at native 1080p?
Any how this quote gives me hope but i fear its just mistranslation.

 

[Papacheeks]

Seriously why has Nintendo drip fed us games on virtual console for WiiU? at the very least we should of gotten the Wii virtual console all on Wii u running at native 1080p?
Any how this quote gives me hope but i fear its just mistranslation.

Because Nintendo is a stubborn company by nature. They believe in their company values that they'[ve always followed.

When a company work's a certain way for a very long time, it's hard to break habits, or be open to new ones.

Which finally seems to be happening over there now that Wii U is in the position it's in.

Hopefully we will see a full overhaul of Eshop, and get 1080p Metroid Prime, F-zero, act raiser, and the like.

Hopefully they will be the ones after seeing Mario Kart DLC prices to lead the way of fair pricing.

It's still wait and see, but it's nice to know that what we here on Gaf have been saying for a long time is finally getting through to some of the big wigs in Nintendo.

 

[Oni Link 666]

Sounds good to me. Cater to me, Nintendo. Fuck all the Mii Wii bullshit.

 

[Haines]

I'd like that magazine.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Kids who grow up with tablets are completely worthless in MK and NSMB, they quickly loose interest after a few minutes. It's not the same world we live in now as last decade.

Do we have any evidence of an overall decline in console gaming capacity among "kids these days?" A lot of those kids who are growing up with tablets would have been completely worthless at Mario Kart anyway. A lot of people have always been completely worthless at games.