DoktorEvil
Banned
Please don't put words in my mouth.
I didn't saw low quality. I said decreasing quality.
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Miyamoto throwing shade at casual gamers
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
Please don't put words in my mouth.
I didn't saw low quality. I said decreasing quality.
Papacheeks
Banned
So your going to let the first 9 months of a new generation make your decision on the decreasing quality argument?
When just last year you had The Last of US.
The games coming in the next 6 months look like decrease in quality is not going to be an issue.
This
DoktorEvil
Banned
So you're gonna assume that every game that comes out current gen going to be as polished as TLOU?
This is a time wasting argument. Your definition of quality and mine aren't the same.
I understood what Mr. Miyamoto meant, and it's what I had to defend in this thread.
I wish others knew he wasn't insulting the casuals, he was insulting the core, the guys & gals too pigheaded to try a Wii U because "it's for babies and kids".
Paracelsus
Member
Having casuals on your side is good when you're able to read market trends and score with the next fad/flash in the pan/one hit wonder/gimmick. If by accident you are not able to do so, it backfires horribly.
If anything, you need casual mainstream AAA blockbusters as bait, so that they gather as many people as possible, of which some will stay to play more obscure elaborated titles.
If anything, you need casual mainstream AAA blockbusters as bait, so that they gather as many people as possible, of which some will stay to play more obscure elaborated titles.
HiddenForbiddenHolyGround
Member
Bringing up the 64 and Gamecube is disingenuous though. Both times Nintendo had to go their own way and did something that didn't mesh with the rest of the industry. The 64 was powerful but it also just had to stick with cartridges. The Gamecube was powerful too and again they had to go with mini discs. Why? Not to mention their approach to courting 3rd parties had never been anything like it is with Sony and MS now or last gen. Saying they tried and failed isn't true. The last time they actually "tried" (in this context) is the SNES and that went fine. It's not a guarantee that things could go well again but their current direction which to many feels like "be different just 'cuz" obviously isn't cutting it anymore.
"They do not know how interesting it is if you move one step further and try to challenge yourself [with more advanced games]"
Yeah sorry I don't see that. Are Animal Crossing and Wii Fit U the more advanced and challenging games for "hardcore" players compared to the stereotypical hardcores like Gears of War (or whatever); or are DKC and Mario the more advanced kinds of games he wants people who played something like Wii Fit to try? What's more likely here? He may not be insulting casuals in the way people are taking it but I really don't think he's saying what only you seem to understand he is saying.
Look what he says here.
"In the days of DS and Wii, Nintendo tried its best to expand the gaming population"
Were they trying to expand their population to include the people buying PS3 and 360? Don't think so.
From my point of view you're almost trying to argue that what we largely consider hardcore should actually be considered casual because you think AAA is largely passive and shallow which is another discussion entirely. Sort of the classic, Nintendo makes real games and third party and other console manufacters make crap and movies argument; the only Nintendo makes most of the real games point of view. Even if you want to call Dave Cage's games shallow who is more likely to buy them? The video game enthusiast who buys the latest consoles and games or the soccer moms, iphone only kids and old people? Hardcore/casual doesn't refer to gameplay depth (it didn't used to, not entirely anyway) but to the demographics' gaming habits. A hardcore gamer is a repeat customer for a large portion of their life and a casual gamer might just move on to the next big fad.
Papacheeks
Banned
Wow!, Now I know why Amir0ox doesn't want to to reply to you. I wouldn't either if your outlook on the gaming community was they are pigheaded because they don't seem to like what the Wii U is offering ATM.
Miyamoto was talking to the flappy bird people that they thought initially would flock to a system with a tablet style control. But people didn't want to pay 349.99 for a system to play a Nintendo polished game that was trying to give them the experience they would rather have on their phone.
And obviously Mario didn't appeal to them, neither did lego City, neither did Sonic:The lost world, neither did W101 or even pikmin.
But Mario Kart did, because anyone can pick it up and play. You argued with Amir0ox on how Nintendo still has high market share at this point.
If anything it's eroding market share, and more so in the Handheld as more devices like Amazon's fire tv, fire phone and some kind of hybrid game console come to light.
They have needed this wake up call for a long time, it took them a decade to understand.
You brought up stupid points from a decade ago in previous post from the days where Nintendo was at their strongest and unrivaled. But it also was at a time where there was very little competition, and the industry was still in it's baby shoes.
I'm not saying the Wii U is a bad system, right now for the money it has more AAA games on it than XBox
ne and PS4. But it also has been out for almost 2 years, and the best that Nintendo is doing is not cutting it.People want more than Mario, Donkey Kong every couple years. Which is why games like Journey, The last of US,Braid, Flower, Gears, among tons of other's have people gravitating towards those types of systems.
It's not that people hate Mario, it's just that we've gotten use to it. Where;s the surprise like the "
moments.
Maybe Zelda, will get people talking, but if they came out with some kind of crazy game like eternal Darkness crazy, or maybe a re-in-visioned Act Raiser, or Zombie's ate My neighbors.
We want the unexpected, which is what drives people to get excited for new consoles. Destiny did that at it's reveal. Same with games like God of War, Starwars Knights of the Old republic.
When those games were announced people went nutts because it was starwars, and it was new.
You keep bringing up old things about Nintendo as a company in your whole argument, and really it doesn't apply to now. The times have changed, technolofy has changed, the consumer shopper has changed.
PS4 has proven they don't need crazy ass NEW IP's to sell a console, and that's exactly what happened during PS2 launch and PSX launch.
They had Tomb Raider a year after launch, Crash, Tekken. They just gave people what they wanted, tekken, Tomb raider were the craze in the 90's because they were 3D platformer, and fighting games.
People want choice now, and they want variety of software because there is variety in hardware.
Let me ask you this, why are there so many Moba's getting made?
It's because they are popular, do you think if let's say leage of legends get's put on a console people will buy that console?
Probably I would say. That doesn't make them Pigheaded.
So I ask you, what is your definition of quality? Is it only Nintendo First party?
Because for me a games like SUper Meat Boy, Hotline Miami, Dust:An elysian tale, Bastion, The last of Us, Journey,Alan Wake, Uncharted series, GOW, The witcher 2-3, Little Big Planet are all high quality.
Just because the games currently out now are not a 90 or so like Nintendo's on Metacritic doesn't make them less appealing.
And that sounds like what your argument seems to be, is that because Nintendo is not doing so well, it's not because of the games, but the people who refuse to buy and play them?
Am I getting warm?
DoktorEvil
Banned
That's precisely what I'm arguing, Which is why I use the newest buzzword of the day: core.
What Miyamoto called passive, I know he refers to the core games, the games who've been in it for multiple gens. The gamers that watch E3 and pre order games and actively live the hobby.
Hardcore and casual means nothing anymore. The definitions have all become muddled.
But people who call themselves gamers, especially the self proclaimed "dudebros" that buy CoD and FPS and sports games and maybe the occasional niche game, are being given less than stellar gameplay experiences and paying out the ass for them for the theme and shiny graphics. If Nintendo went that opposite way with their games, and I mean full stop, no more child audiences, they'd crush MS and Sony because they'd then offer games with mature themes AND deep gameplay mechanics and do it under first party umbrella.
I mentioned Skyrim & Assassins creed before as games that do precisely what Miyamoto is talking about. They offer cool themes and nice settings but the stories are inconsequential and the gameplay is watered down.
I'm saying all this not as a fan of Nintendo, but from seeing all of the comments that are not reading his context and getting what he means.
Wow!, Now I know why Amir0ox doesn't want to to reply to you. I wouldn't either if your outlook on the gaming community was they are pigheaded because they don't seem to like what the Wii U is offering ATM.
Miyamoto was talking to the flappy bird people that they thought initially would flock to a system with a tablet style control. But people didn't want to pay 349.99 for a system to play a Nintendo polished game that was trying to give them the experience they would rather have on their phone.
And obviously Mario didn't appeal to them, neither did lego City, neither did Sonic:The lost world, neither did W101 or even pikmin.
But Mario Kart did, because anyone can pick it up and play. You argued with Amir0ox on how Nintendo still has high market share at this point.
If anything it's eroding market share, and more so in the Handheld as more devices like Amazon's fire tv, fire phone and some kind of hybrid game console come to light.
They have needed this wake up call for a long time, it took them a decade to understand.
You brought up stupid points from a decade ago in previous post from the days where Nintendo was at their strongest and unrivaled. But it also was at a time where there was very little competition, and the industry was still in it's baby shoes.
I'm not saying the Wii U is a bad system, right now for the money it has more AAA games on it than XBox
People want more than Mario, Donkey Kong every couple years. Which is why games like Journey, The last of US,Braid, Flower, Gears, among tons of other's have people gravitating towards those types of systems.
It's not that people hate Mario, it's just that we've gotten use to it. Where;s the surprise like the " moments.
Maybe Zelda, will get people talking, but if they came out with some kind of crazy game like eternal Darkness crazy, or maybe a re-in-visioned Act Raiser, or Zombie's ate My neighbors.
We want the unexpected, which is what drives people to get excited for new consoles. Destiny did that at it's reveal. Same with games like God of War, Starwars Knights of the Old republic.
When those games were announced people went nutts because it was starwars, and it was new.
You keep bringing up old things about Nintendo as a company in your whole argument, and really it doesn't apply to now. The times have changed, technolofy has changed, the consumer shopper has changed.
PS4 has proven they don't need crazy ass NEW IP's to sell a console, and that's exactly what happened during PS2 launch and PSX launch.
They had Tomb Raider a year after launch, Crash, Tekken. They just gave people what they wanted, tekken, Tomb raider were the craze in the 90's because they were 3D platformer, and fighting games.
People want choice now, and they want variety of software because there is variety in hardware.
Let me ask you this, why are there so many Moba's getting made?
It's because they are popular, do you think if let's say leage of legends get's put on a console people will buy that console?
Probably I would say. That doesn't make them Pigheaded.
So I ask you, what is your definition of quality? Is it only Nintendo First party?
Because for me a games like SUper Meat Boy, Hotline Miami, Dust:An elysian tale, Bastion, The last of Us, Journey,Alan Wake, Uncharted series, GOW, The witcher 2-3, Little Big Planet are all high quality.
Just because the games currently out now are not a 90 or so like Nintendo's on Metacritic doesn't make them less appealing.
And that sounds like what your argument seems to be, is that because Nintendo is not doing so well, it's not because of the games, but the people who refuse to buy and play them?
Am I getting warm?
I only want it to be clear that Nintendo and the Wii and currently what they're doing with Wii U has opened the industry much more than what MS and Sony are offering. I also want it clear that Miyamoto wants the core gamers to stop the casual/hardcore back and forth and give their console a try, because it's the core that does this shit(I'm talking about hand waving Wii U and Wii because they aren't directly targeted). I'm guilty of it as well which is why I'm pushing so stubbornly back against these comments.
It's not Nintendo first party. Bastion was my favorite game of last gen, because it have unique art direction and somewhat deep gameplay and a narrative I was invested in.
My definition of quality is: this game offers a great mix of everything and doesn't focus on one area too much. Its a game thaT feels like a game, not a movie that gives you buttons to use. David Cage's "games" don't even do narrative well and that's ALL it has going for it!
Hardware specs aside, the AAA lineups are weak and his argument is all about "those games don't offer deep gameplay" and quite a few games(and some franchises in general)don't. I'm more excited for the Indie lineups more than AAA so far.
Yep. They'll just fall back on the old mistranslation excuse that they always use when any bit of negativity comes from the man's interviews.
It's kinda funny how Miyamoto doesn't bother to learn English when he's been in the business for more than three decades. Guess Nintendo likes being able to have that mistranslation escape hatch for when these things happen.
Oh don't worry, I'm going to. It's just I was at work and since then Doktor has posted many more comments that are bringing him further down the rabbit hole and making the knot he's in even tighter. So wouldn't be right not to respond to his expanded arguments! >
Papacheeks
Banned
Please in what way did Nintendo open up the industry better than MS and Sony? By "flailing your hands in the air, like you just don't care"?
Because the games that are talked about more are the core games, like Super Mario Galaxy.
You think the grandma's and grandpa's who bough Wii for Wii Bowling are having conversations about it right now, or games in general?
No, what games are still being talking about right now?
The Last of Us, No man's Sky maybe?
Wii was a last resort for Nintendo to be relevant in the home console space, you know that right?
Because after the last Mario Galaxy game released it was a steep downward decent of interest and sales in Nintendo home console.
If what you say is true, and it's not(it's more personal opinion) then where are these trends, or industry changes that Nintendo made now in the market?
Stuff that sticks and makes a huge impact usually grows into other markets right?
I saw Motion Control have it's day and like the dreamcast died. The Xbox one with kinect proves that, the failure that is the Playstation Move proves that.
Motion control would have been in PS4 and XBox regardless, because of changes in mobile markets with gyroscope and barometer tech.
Nintendo might have shown innovation in game design, yes I agree to that whole heartedly.
But to say that Sony with the PS2 and now the PS4 are not innovatuve with Shareplay, Cross buy, PS NOW, Remote play is just you loving Nintendo and being one minded,
I will give it to Nintendo for taking something that wasn't profitable in arcade's and bringing it to older demopgraphics.
But in no way has that had a long lasting impact on how games and hardware has been developed.
The success of the other companies proves that they innovated in their own way.
I stand by my comment that you love Nintendo and certain types of games, but omit that other's who don't like what you have come to like, are tasteless and pigheaded.
Because that's just untrue and extremely bias.
That seems pretty xenophobic. I didn't realize that gaming was business for english speakers only.
Papacheeks
Banned
Well if Yoshida can come do interviews, and trade shows in English, why can't Miyamoto?
It's part of Nintendo's on going issues. You can't just have reggie be your voice over in the west and think a translator will do for someone of Miyamoto's position can we?
Because Miyamoto is a game designer, not a president. Huge differences in roles.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Actually he is a Senior Board Executive, R&D Manager, and a key public relations figure for the company. With that said, I think we can agree his English is going to stay where it is. It hasn't improved much in 20 years of him doing media relations.
Papacheeks
Banned
OH SNAP!
It sucks though because he is like Yoshida in terms of having relations with all the designer's and the board, we need someone from the East to be a face that understand development and gamer's.
That's what Nintendo lacks IMO.
HiddenForbiddenHolyGround
Member
That's good because I hate having put words in someone's mouth.
Your definition of core gamers is incredibly shallow and you're directing your ire at the wrong people and the wrong games. Never have any of the people I know or met who only played CoD (or Madden plus maybe a big title like Gears or some combination of that group) or who could be called dudebros told me that they consider themselves hardcore gamers. They generally barely consider themselves gamers. A casual can be someone who plays nothing but Candy Crush or nothing but CoD. The games don't matter it's the habits. If you want a core gamer than look at the type of people who congregate here or on Gamefaqs or other similar sites. Everyone here has probably played at least one Mario or Sonic, at least some FPS, at least one RPG, at least some action or platformer or racing or fighting game or most of those (with some dislike for one genre or others accounting for personal preference). A core gamer makes a longterm investment in games (financial and/or "emotional") and buys and/or plays games quite often as a hobby.
If you're considering the type of person that buys one CoD a year a core gamer you're right that that's not all that different then a person who plays Bejeweled on their phone as an amusing time waster but I'd hardly call the CoD player core just because CoD is their time waster of choice. Core and casual comes down to habits. Someone might spend 100s of dollars on the Kardashian game in micro transactions but will that same person buy much else in terms of gaming for the rest of the year or see it as anything more then a nice little diversion afterwards? Probably not.
Moving on, in what way is the story in Assassin's Creed inconsequential? If you're the type of person that skips cutscenes all the time or thinks overt story will never be and never had been important in games then I suppose it would seem inconsequential but people get invested in it all the same. You can go read the wiki or pick up the books if you want proof of that. Someone already responded to calling out AC as having shallow gameplay. What's shallow about it exactly? That you use one button for running and moving around the environment? Is Mario shallow because all you do is run and jump?
You're being so subjective and personal that it's impossible to argue with you. Your definition of quality is ridiculous.
"this game offers a great mix of everything and doesn't focus on one area too much."
Not every game can be that game. Nor should it be. If every game followed that rule we wouldn't have Super Mario World, DKC, Halo, Style Savvy, StarCraft, SSX, thousands of games. Funnily enough, AC is incredibly diverse in things to do in the game at least in recent iterations. In fact you wouldn't have to look far to find the complaint that with so much to do games like AC3 and 4 get too unfocused.
"Its a game that feels like a game, not a movie that gives you buttons to use. David Cage's 'games' don't even do narrative well and that's ALL it has going for it!"
That's what I suspected about your attitude towards story and alluded to. Why should all games have to feel like a game, whatever that means because this is so subjective. There is room in this industry for all kinds of games. Single minded FPS, huge open world epic RPG, point and click adventure, 'interactive movie', flight simulator, arcade shoot em ups. If there are fans and people who appreciate it, why shouldn't it exist? I've never played Cooking Mama but I won't say that type of game doesn't need to exist or deny that other players can enjoy it.
"Hardware specs aside, the AAA lineups are weak and his argument is all about 'those games don't offer deep gameplay' and quite a few games(and some franchises in general) don't."
That's nothing more than your own opinion. There are plenty of deep AAA games and having good production values doesn't make them bad. Just as there are tons of shallow, lower budget games with unique art direction and a story with (ostensibly) something to say. It sounds like you don't think the story in AC matters, you think the gameplay is too shallow, you think they spend too much money making games like CoD and AC, that no games should be like movies because no one wants that. I don't want all games to be movies and look, they're not. You're complaining about a hypothetical close minded group of gamers but you're being incredibly close minded yourself. There is room for more in the game industry than your own personal preferences.
Why is it impossible for Nintendo to do what Sony did with the PS4, MS did with the 360, Sony did with the PS2 and PS1 and Nintendo did with the SNES when they all did it? Clearly Nintendo still have an interest in appealing to core gamers. What you're saying doesn't make sense. They didn't try to do a powerful console that was also in step with industry trends since the SNES. The 64 just had to be done with cartridges (would that really have saved money over discs?) and Gamecube just had to be done with mini discs. One of their reasons for going with carts for the 64 was apparently to weed out less talented developers. That's not really sound business. Nintendo hasn't traditionally courted 3rd parties the same way Sony and MS do. There are other ways to reign in costs like Sony investing heavily in getting Indies attention. PS4 and Xbox One already made compromises. It doesn't have to be a supercomputer. A Nintendo console on par with Sony or MS in terms of power with modern features people expect (like a decent account system) and third party support that would be easier to gather with a system similar to the others in terms of architecture and specs is not at all impossible or asking for the moon.
Make that $200 in 2017 and we're talking.
Lionel Richie
Member
Wait, what? How so? The man is SHIGERU MIYAMOTO, anyone having an issue with him not speaking a non native language is automatically wrong at life.
googleplex
Member
"Throwing Shade" is the stupidest phase ever.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
His wording was extreme but the impression that Nintendo products are perceived as "kiddies" by many in the gaming community are very real and it's a large part of why many people avoided their products as if Nintendo's the plague themselves.
It's a narrow-minded view that is unfortunately rather prevalent.
Papacheeks
Banned
Well when your games that are promoted the most are first party Mario, and platformer's it's hard to grab someone that might be inclined to play Bayonetta, or Resident evil to buy your system.
Papacheeks
Banned
Well that's like saying if Gabe Newel was Swedish promoted valve in the states but didn't;t know English.
Don't care what they've done, he's a huge figure in the industry please be able to communicate to the other part's of the world that also matter for your market.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
It's sad to see that platformers are now relegated as "casuals" just because they're colorful.
Especially so when they're well made like Mario games mostly are.
Lionel Richie
Member
Should Reggie know japanese? I mean, he's a big figure in a japanese company. When promoting anything in japan, why should he use a translator?
I get that english is the universal language, but the man in question is Shiggy. When you spend the time he has being basically the best ever at your job, well, you could speak in any fucking language you want that people are going to listen.
They aren't going to make a console similar to sony's or ms's in terms of power because it will end up costing too much for the audience that usually buy their products. Almost all successful nintendo products were priced right for their audience. If we look at both the 3ds and the WiiU(to an extent) we see that they weren't as successful because they were priced way too high.Nintendo when they are successful appeals to markets that don't usually buy the other consoles and/or handhelds.I think they want to shrink the barrier of entry in terms of price for their future products. I also remember Iwata talking a bit about the pricing issue awhile ago in an investor meeting Q and A, but I'm not sure if he was referring to the price of games and/or hardware.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Please. I don't love a company or a console more than one or another, but the hardcore/casual shit does get my ire, because the label of "gamer" is a large group of people and so long as gamers play something resembling a video game, they're a gamer in my book.
The Wii proved that the biggest barrier between core and the people intimidated by consoles was the inputs, controllers.
Give someone who never played a video game a controller with dual analog sticks and they freak out. It's not intuitive. Dual analog sticks aren't friendly to someone who's interested in games but doesn't have the motor skills to understand how to control the camera and the avatar subsequently. Why's that? Because the dual sticks are built for people who've been in gaming for quite some time.
Motion control is more than important. It breaks that wall down between what you call hardcore and casual.
And I'm all for a gaming community that prides itself on inclusion, regardless of what inputs you use.
But you're showing me that you're a snob because according to you, only grandma and grandpa would buy a console with motion controls, not people who don't want to deal with the attitudes like yours in the community but want to play games. Fun games. Games of all varieties.
Do you think a mouse is a grandma and grandpa tool? Could you use a computer without a mouse? There were people in the 80s who were stubborn about using a mouse, yet the mouse lowered the learning curve of using computers and made computers that much easier to use.
Tell me, what software did Kinect or Move offer that made the peripheral so valuable and must have? kinectimals? Sports champion? Microsoft and Sony tried to steal that market share because the Wii worked and it had a large library of games and re-releases that had the Wiimote exclusively change how the games are played. MS and Sony barely tried. They had to create something because business competition demands it.
I addressed the issue with casual and hardcore above. A gamer is a gamer, regardless if they play candy crush or Xenoblade or Madden. Even if it's a lukewarm interest, the person still ponied up cash for a console and bought a couple games. The elitism with segmenting gamers into sub categories and insulting/berating them is a habit that really irks the shit out of me, because that's not what the hobby is about. The one thing I hold up with Nintendo is that they're not elitist with their customers. Yes, the games they offer might be more child friendly, but they're games anyone can play or enjoy, and I can't say the same for MS or Sony, despite owning multiple PS models and the 360. I'm an equal opportunity gamer and I hold no loyalties to this hobby.
My original quality standards were a LOT higher actually. Those are really dumbed down answers.
You're mixing good productions values with good gameplay. Like I said before, The Creed series is absolutely perfect at capturing time periods and architecture and settings and everything lively about Italy, about the Middle East, and about Colonial America. That's what I value in those games. Does Desmond's story matter too much? Yes and no, and that no is because I shouldn't have to go to a wiki to understand and review what the plot details are. Even on the cover of the AC games Desmond plays second fiddle to what time period were going to.I played FF games. I'm very familiar with obscure themes and plot dumps and too much exposition. The plot doesn't hold up over multiple games. And I was spot on about gameplay. Sure, you do different missions, but going from location to location ,those missions don't vary much once you do them over and over again, correct? A game should never make me feel like things are tedious, and the Creed series does that. Tedium is what a job can be and those games can sometimes feel like work more than fun. The one button for counters and for running/parkour I stand by. Rocksteady's Batman games use the one button counters and if you keep mashing the button, sure enough you can counter every fucking thing. Tell me where the complexity is in using one button to do these counters that should require 2-3 button combinations? Aren't the core good enough to do those inputs? They should be if they're playing games across multiple generations.
The Souls series is an example of games that I love: games that throw me in and let me tinker and figure out my own personal play style. Character action does that as well. Games that utilize 2-3-4 button combinations and punish me if I fuck up. I rarely get frustrated. I pick up and start over. And that's what I wanted and expected more of ever since last gen.
I look for different things that games are supposed to be doing and they're not. Increasing production values doesn't make a game more fun, it makes a game look prettier and potentially offer artificial length and that's what Miyamoto was calling pathetic, this idea that gaming last gen was so complex when it was different looking ponies with pretty colors but doing the same old tricks. Themes are important but trailers do half the work now of creating buzz even before we see any gameplay, and I find that insulting that developers can't even bother to have something in actual gameplay at the trade shows any more.
Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?
Infernal Monkey
Member
It's alright guys, Machinima's got this story covered.
Papacheeks
Banned
Hey does know Japanese, so.....
Look at how successful Sony has been creating a console for gamers with the PS4. No half assing the GPU for Netflix and Kinect crap, no releasing last generation power in 2012 and justifying it because the console is small and the controller has a touch screen like a tablet. No, just well designed power in a reasonably sized box that attracts and allows all third parties to shine and thus attracts gamers.
Nintendo need to go back to the philosophy they had with the SNES (mainstream), combine it with the internal hardware innovation and drive they had with the GameCube (powerful) and release a competitive console. Once there, they have the advantage of bringing across their entire list of gaming franchises. With an appealing solid base like this, they can then go nuts adding accessories like they once did.
Nintendo need to go back to the philosophy they had with the SNES (mainstream), combine it with the internal hardware innovation and drive they had with the GameCube (powerful) and release a competitive console. Once there, they have the advantage of bringing across their entire list of gaming franchises. With an appealing solid base like this, they can then go nuts adding accessories like they once did.
Papacheeks
Banned
Firstly I never said the people I used just as an Example(Grandma's, grandpa's, moms, aunts or what have you) that they were not gamer's.
Just that mostly we saw them buy the system with Wii Sports and maybe a couple extra titles like Resort, Mario for the family.
And you are mostly right the Wii did help break that barrier with people who are intimidated by a controller. But it's more the stigma that the controller means complication, which goes along with your other statement about a mouse on a PC, which is just absurd.
People can freaking point and click. Why do you think most older people in their 40's and up play point/click adventure games?
Their easy to understand gameplay wise and don't involve a a lot mechanics. Which was one of the strength's I generalized, with my previous post.
But something like that doesn't last forever, Point and click are now on tablets, which technology wise can be confusing for older audience.
Yet here we have people buying ipad's like crazy and playing the same type of game they would be playing on the Wii. Only their swiping their fingers and rotating the tablet.
Secondly I find that truly insulting that your calling me a snob when, I'm pointing out flaws in your so called comment;s about Nintendo that shows you are more or less being biased. You also omit the fact that I called out how Microsoft's Kinect and PlayStation move were both flops.
But you seem to ride it hard that Nintendo was the only company to make strides in that generation, when a handful of games and services from both Sony, Microsoft, would beg to differ.
I call you out on calling most gamer's that don't seem to want to try what Nintendo currently offer's Pigheaded, and you call me a snob?
I Bet you have no clue as to what is coming on XBox or Playstation, or even steam come next year?
The games coming out next year shows that Nintendo isn't the only one capable of your so called quality.
Thirdly your too fixated on the Wii to see that Nintendo's reliance on First party character games throughout the years every generation systematically, instead of investing in getting new developers to make new exciting software has hurt them in the long run.
The SNES was not mainstream and the GameCube was a failure (to them). If they're serious about being mainstream they need to diversify the library of their platforms.
Patrick Bateman
Member
Give me a real Gameboy without all that touchscreen-nonsense.
Like this:
Like this:
DoktorEvil
Banned
It's not even my frustration about platformers being called casual games, it's the word casual and what it's done to Nintendo and to the core, who claim to love Mario and Zelda but don't give a fuck about Nintendo at all. That name has a lot of history and recognition. That recognition shouldn't be assigned to casual or children's fare simply because they chose to make gaming more inclusive.
Controllers mean complication when we talk about last gen, the ps2/Xbox/GC era, even the N64's analog and directional pad mess(Nintendo certainly fucks up often enough)
A controller with dual analog sticks is the standard now and it's still not any easier for someone to just pick up and learn.
It's not stigma, it's muscle memory the core develops generation after gen of playing with similar control schemes.
Which goes back to the mouse, which was one of the main selling points of the first Apple Macintosh and the biggest innovation to computers. Using the mouse lowered barriers to computing the way Wiimotes lowered barriers to gaming and mice became standardized across the computer industry. Cross play is the key to this gen and I say Nintendo and the Wii U fucked up with not allowing the Gamepad to accept 3DS games. Wii U games however implement cross play on a lot of their titles seamlessly. The PS4 requires a connection, wifi, and a vita. And we know how badly Vita has been struggling.
Point and click games weren't just "easy" or had simple mechanics. Have you played Myst? You're going to tell me Myst is an easy game just because it's controls are point and click?
Yes, Cyan gave rights to port Myst over to iOS, which is what you said about point and clicks and iPads, but you're muddling the argument about simplicity as you see it, not as someone whose never played video games or has only played with touch or motion controls. You can do a lot with those controls. Skyward Sword did a lot with making the Wiimote 1:1 with the in game sword. Not many games have even been that accurate with a remote.
Why do you assume older adults want only point and click? Or just motion?
Those adults have more responsibilities and less time to enjoy gaming, but that doesn't mean they won't jump into CoD or any other game if they understood dual analog control schemes.
Xbox: rise of the tomb raider, sunset overdrive, halo master chief collection, forza, FIFA,
PS4:Bloodborne, TLOU remastered, LBP 3, MLB the show,
Nintendo isn't the only company putting out quality, but there are companies who aren't that are selling ridiculous number of unit that offer shallow gameplay and I'm tired of pretty looking but shallow games. I agree with Miyamoto and I'll leave it be, because we'll probably never agree. The snob comment was uncalled for I apologize.
Outtrigger888
Member
I was hoping "throwing shade" meant shiggy was wearing really cool sunglasses and chucked them at casuals. Like an evolution of the tea table flipping.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Why do we have to make things seem disrespectful than they are? :/
Well, I'm sure that Miyamoto cares about video games, he is a developer. And a lot of developers are passionate about games. And Miyamoto also seems to care a lot about gameplay.
So I'm sure he would be disappointed in people not enjoying what he's passionate about in games.
Well, I'm sure that Miyamoto cares about video games, he is a developer. And a lot of developers are passionate about games. And Miyamoto also seems to care a lot about gameplay.
So I'm sure he would be disappointed in people not enjoying what he's passionate about in games.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
There is none lol
Well, that's effectively all Assassin's Creeds in a nutshell. That's what was bad about them and that's what's probably always going to be bad about them. It should have been fixed in AC2. Well, it actually shouldn't have gotten released in that state at all.
I wouldn't call it streamlining. The game is literally guessing what I want to do. It has to, because the controls are so dumbed down. Which means quite often it will do shit, that I didn't want to do. And that's simply bad. There is no excuse for it. It's bad design. The player is not really in control.
A duct tape'd controller could actually play parts of the game and also do "cool" shit without the involvement of an actual human player.
Hell, there is simply no jump button. Instead there is a broken auto-jump, that jumps when it thinks that the player wants to jump.
That's also why I actually liked AC3. Because there are not many cities and the cities are small, so most of the game I don't do jumping and running over rooftops. Which means some control issues are not problematic.
And that's also why I have issues with people, that call AssCreed a "core" franchise. It's not core, it's the definition of casual. Not that I have a problem with casual games. That's fine.
Yeah, optical discs are a superb idea for a portable system. Not only does a disc drive save space, but it also saves electricity. I wonder why Nintendo hasn't used those. They are so backwards.
Wow, thread is on fire... lol
I always try to disagree with Miyamoto's opinions and it seems its never possible. I mean, its true they don't need to try THAT MUCH to cather to casual gamers because... they are casual gamers. A gamer you need to work him in order to make him buy something. It needs to be a great game with a certain depth. With mister everybody, he's happy downloading whatever is appearing for free on the app store on their phones.
I always try to disagree with Miyamoto's opinions and it seems its never possible. I mean, its true they don't need to try THAT MUCH to cather to casual gamers because... they are casual gamers. A gamer you need to work him in order to make him buy something. It needs to be a great game with a certain depth. With mister everybody, he's happy downloading whatever is appearing for free on the app store on their phones.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I don't think I've ever disliked a post as much as this. You need to come down off your high horse bud.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
The SNES, just like the NES was as mainstream as you could possibly get.
Papacheeks
Banned
Dude you are crashing hard on this fixation you have with control schemes, and different demographics. People know how to play pinball, pool, tennis, golf, with a controller. The people that don't want to learn are stubborn, or just are uninterested. if they live under a rock and ignored technology all in a nutshell, then that's on them. I will agree that Nintendo help break those barriers.
Cross play that's great, I guess, and now your brining up things that don't matter or that have been talked to death on other threads. Yes we know how bad the vita is, and how bad it's doing. Anything else that's irrelevant to the thread you would like to go off on, to support your "Love" for Nintendo?
So I say point and click games and you fucking pick Myst? I'm, talking about the 19.99 Nancy Drew, sherlock holmes point/click mystery games, and such. Those are the types of games being bought by the more casual crowd on their pc's and tablets. You are seriously going off into space with this discussion that me and other's have pointed out is just noise that supports your opinion about Nintendo.DoktorEvil
Just stop while your ahead.
Why is this even in this discussion? Talking about iOS? I talked about how these casual people are buying Ipad's and tablet's and seem to find it easier to use than a computer, therefore buying what ever casual games they like on that device?
How is that confusing, or misconstruing the truth?
I really don't know what's being talked about anymore.
I bring up tablets, ipad's, and mobile because it's relevant to the casual consumer argument as it's even been mentioned by Nintendo exec's. They didn't foresee mobile, and such being so big.
And your still trying to debate control schemes and crap? Move on please, sales in this growing market of mobile, tablets and such show you how little your opinion on control schemes matters now.
The dead sales of the Wii show you little motion control now matter's. The dead weight of the kinect shows you how little motion control now matters. The dead perpherial known as the Playstation move shows you how little it matter's now.
Seriously WTF is this? Now your speaking for the people with social Security too?Their responsibility's, Jesus, wtf?
X
Seriously looking at your previous post's I'm inclined to make a good observation that I think you would be great working for Nintendo PR, you seem to be amazing at Spinning!
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Aaaaaaand Miyamoto has now sky rocketed up my list of favorite people.
Someone really translated "Kawaisou" as pathetic? That's a huge distortion of the word's meaning. It's much closer to "I feel sorry for" that person not because I look down on them, but because I want things to better for them. A sick child would hear "Kawaisou" and be happy to hear that not insulted.
Valjean Lafitte
Banned
When you quote someone, use the +quote button so people know who you are quoting.
Oh, so that was the original word? Wow, pathetic is really an unnecessarily offensive translation for this. They could've written something along the lines of "They're missing out".
Papacheeks
Banned
Yea sorry I was trying to highlight in between and deleted poster's name.
I fixed it, Sort of for now.