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[Triggerhappytel]

Hard not to see this as kind of condescending, but it's actually very promising. If poorly phrased.

Please explain what you mean. I don't see any benefit in this indie parity clause.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Overreaction, the thread.


Ps.: I also dont agree about the parity clause. But whats wrong with all this people trying to turn Phil Spencer in a evil being? Lol

Edit: Actually, coincidentially or not, after Phil Spencer assumed, the Xbox One is becoming more and more appealing. So it seems to me that he is doing a good job for the system, and thats his job.

 

[benny_a]

I've been here for a while, nobody complained or even questioned about this and it was obvious when games like GTA3 took months to a year to release on the original XBOX despite the fact. How about people here demanding Sony be more open and explain their policies on the topic?[

But Sony has explained the policies w.r.t. parity.

 

[cyber_ninja]

Typical MS: dirty scumbags always play dirty and pretend to be good guys at the same time. I love gaming, I might prefer PlayStation, but I also love Ninty and PC and I was a huge fan of Sega. As for MS they can fuck off, they are the only gaming company I have no respect. And I don't get all the love for Spencer, he looks fake and creepy to me along with his sidekick Larry. Do what you gotta do MS, but you will not get my money.

 

[Figments]

Precisely. What makes this even worse is that despite Xbox fanboys who refuse to acknowledge when Microsoft does anything wrong, they are actually getting hurt by this too. Many indie dev games that are quite highly rated simply never came to Xbox One so far. That's partly because of the parity clause. And, we know of a bunch of games in the future already that have to skip out on XBO due to this.

So, treating Microsoft Xbox One fans as "first class citizens" actually means giving them access to a diminished and curated group of games wherein Microsoft is choosing what is OK for them to play, and other fans on other systems get to make the choice themselves and on top of that have a massively wider selection to begin with.

I feel like you're insinuating that every person that doesn't necessarily see a problem with the parity clause is a fanboy. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

To the second bolded item: wat. So in the case of an indie dev that can pull of simultaneous release, that's just Microsoft curating the experience? That makes no sense.

 

[Xando]

And if they can't work on these versions simultaneously they will not have any income even though versions of the game are already done.

The solution: Publish on Xbox first and delay every other version.

If you now think that the problem is solved, consider the thought experiment of Nintendo and Sony instituting the same policy.

While considering to do which version first you also have to think about the potential market which is almost twice as big on PS than it is on Xbox.
This situation is just messed up and it wouldnt wonder me if Nintendo and Sony start a similiar clause if MS keeps it.

 

[oldergamer]

Holy shit the war is real.

Yep that sums it up.

 

[Impeccable]

While that's surely a negative, part of me likes that I won't have to see a Steam-style over saturation of sub-par indie games on the XB1 store.

Over saturation makes for studios making better, more unique games to stand out.

 

[hawk2025]

Ok. That makes sense.

I'm not saying being angry is always wrong. Its just that in many situations a more cool tone is more effective in communication. I can tell you are just more passionate about indie games than I am and that's cool. Phil Spencer seems like a reasonable guy. I'm sure if people if people respectfully reasoned with him via twitter he would at least consider his stance on the parity clause.

Bugging him on twitter got fans like myself a remake of Phantom Dust. He also often responds with upfront and honest answers when he doesn't need to.

We were told nearly a year ago that they would make sure to constant reevaluate the Indie policy.

Many indie devs talked to Microsoft, even went on the record publicly on how they were being damaged by the parity clause.

What we got a year later is a maintenance of the policy and today's statement: creamy bullshit. You will excuse me for not believing that people reasoning with him through Twitter will change anything. Especially when a lot of people seem to be happily eating it up.

 

[Toki767]

It took him a while to come up with a reason. Technically he probably could've said this for the Tomb Raider deal too I guess.

 

[hoos30]

So why do Microsoft back down on their own policy and allow games through?

They do it when it benefits them; I don't think this is rocket science.

If it's a game that has enough buzz to withstand a months long delay and a guarantee of zero media coverage upon (late) release, they'll let it through.

If it's a game no one has heard of from an unproven developer, that is not going to have any marketing push and will probably never even get reviewed upon (late) release, they feel that they are better off without that.

 

[Amir0x]

I feel like you're insinuating that every person that doesn't necessarily see a problem with the parity clause is a fanboy. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

To the second bolded item: wat. So in the case of an indie dev that can pull of simultaneous release, that's just Microsoft curating the experience? That makes no sense.

It's factually a problem. Indie devs have said it a billion times. Microsoft doesn't get to make up nonsense saying it's not; neither do its fans. A fact is a fact.

Your second item has nothing to do with what I said. Most indie devs -cannot- support a billion platforms simultaneously, because they have neither the budget nor the team size. They have to make hard choices. Microsoft's 'picking and choosing' which games they make exceptions for is them curating the experience; and the fact that Xbox fans factually get less releases due to it and only the ones Microsoft deem are 'popular' enough receive exceptions turns the service into one that is curated. That does not mean every game that comes on the service is curated, because there are indie devs that can make games simultaneously.

But you don't make shitty policies for the few, you make good policies for the ALL.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

You'd think with the commanding lead the PS4 has ww they'd readjust this stupid clause. A small dev team can only afford to do so much..

 

[HighResTomato]

The war against damaging indie developers continues.

It's a business, Phil's primary focus is Microsofts/Xbox interest he shouldn't give a shit about how it makes the rockstar indies feel. If they don't like it, no one has a gun held against their heads. Re-releasing the game on Xbox after it's become irrelevant is nothing more but an insult to MS and they shouldn't stand for it. No company should.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Over saturation makes for studios making better, more unique games to stand out.

It's also flooding the indie space to the point where I don't even want to try the games sometimes. That's the negative effect in my opinion.

 

[USC-fan]

The dude goes out of his way and gives a great upfront and honest interview and people pick one small piece that they disagree with and make him out to be the reincarnation of Hitler or worse the evil stepson of Don Mattrick.

I disagree with him on this policy but I'm not gonna shit on him.

Still think it funny people try to blame the xbone problems on Don Mattrick. All these guys were in the room....

It pretty crazy he says this then spend million to make sure there isnt "parity" on releasing many games on ps4. Then he try to spin it like it "for the gamer." Clearly only a business move just like everything else.

Parity cause is a bad thing and many dev have already spoken out against it. Just another bad move for MS..... All this has done is delay games and give sony a ton of indie"exclusives."

 

[Exploratory]

This is a discussion forum. We discuss what people in the industry say.

If you don't like it, you don't have to participate. Further, if HE does not like it, he should shut his stupid fucking mouth and stop spitting nonsense about the parity clause. Or, better yet, he should change it, because it's harmful to indie developers.

But I guess that's too much to ask for our corporate idols, they might get uncomfortable and shit!

Dude you need to relax. Like you said this is a discussion about video games. Video games.

 

[benny_a]

Dude you need to relax. Like you said this is a discussion about video games. Video games.

Yo dude man, this is only about people's livelyhood that they earn by creating video games. Just chillax man, it's all cool breh.

 

[Night Angel]

It's a business, Phil's primary focus is Microsofts/Xbox interest he shouldn't give a shit about how it the rockstar indies feel. If they don't like it, no one has a gun held against their heads. Re-releasing the game on Xbox after it's become irrelevant is nothing more but an insult to MS and they shouldn't stand for it. No company should.

And thus the xb misses out on some great games.

But hey, it looks like Phil got through to someone. It always makes sense as a consumer to consider the company's business needs over your own consumer experience. Less games good because MS bottom line better.

 

[Amir0x]

It's a business, Phil's primary focus is Microsofts/Xbox interest he shouldn't give a shit about how it the rockstar indies feel. If they don't like it, no one has a gun held against their heads. Re-releasing the game on Xbox after it's become irrelevant is nothing more but an insult to MS and they shouldn't stand for it. No company should.

"Rockstar indies", holy fucking shit. They're being rockstars because they LITERALLY cannot afford to make more ports at a time and their team sizes aren't big enough?

Sorry, we get to call them out on being the selfish pieces of shit they are being when their policies indicate it.

The war is real my friend, you are right. The war to stop allowing mega corporations to damage the industry because they want more customers.

Dude you need to relax. Like you said this is a discussion about video games. Video games.

Which is PEOPLE'S LIVELIHOOD

 

[John Bender]

It's a business, Phil's primary focus is Microsofts/Xbox interest he shouldn't give a shit about how it the rockstar indies feel. If they don't like it, no one has a gun held against their heads. Re-releasing the game on Xbox after it's become irrelevant is nothing more but an insult to MS and they shouldn't stand for it. No company should.

Ahahahaha..... ridiculous!
So it's the developers fault?
And "an insult to MS"...., lol... I heard it all. Hilarious!

 

[prwxv3]

Yo dude man, this is only about people's livelyhood that they earn by creating video games. Just chillax man, it's all cool breh.

This.

 

[PinkCrayon]

I wonder what it's like to feel first class in a tier one country.

 

[BadWolf]

Doesn't seem all that smart when your console is on the losing side.

As time passes and the gap between PS4 and X1 increases even more, this will carry less and less weight and will just result in X1 getting less games.

 

[cyber_ninja]

Dude you need to relax. Like you said this is a discussion about video games. Video games.

Exactly, it's all about video games, which is our hobby and we are very passionate about it, no need to tell people to relax when they talk about things they have passion for.

 

[The Last Wizard]

Take a chair, benny! You want a cola? Yeah, we got some great Hors d'oeuvre prepared for you. You comfortable? Great, great...

Now, are you gonna release on our system day and date with PS4? No? Well fuck you guys, and gimme them damn Hors d'oeuvre's!

Lol picturing this in my head

 

[Amir0x]

Exactly, it's all about video games, which is our hobby and we are very passionate about it, no need to tell people to relax when they talk about things they have passion for.

And, more importantly, that this is people's jobs. They can and have been financially impacted by the parity clause.

It is the biggest wonder to me in the world that so many people here can call themselves gamers and yet gleefully defend a company who factually negatively impacts some of the most wide-eyed aspirants of our hobby.

 

[wenis]

wtf is going on this week.

Is PR on a Industry wide cruise?

Everyone is out on PTO. See you in 2015!

 

[Xando]

It's a business, Phil's primary focus is Microsofts/Xbox interest he shouldn't give a shit about how it the rockstar indies feel. If they don't like it, no one has a gun held against their heads. Re-releasing the game on Xbox after it's become irrelevant is nothing more but an insult to MS and they shouldn't stand for it. No company should.

Wat? so you want no games that released on other plattforms before?

 

[walltowall]

I know plenty of developers who will never be on board for XB1 because of the parity clause. Curve Studios and their lineup of games is one. Devolver Digital is another.

Saying this doesn't affect games coming to XB1 is completely untrue.

Isn't Devolver involved in Shadow Warrior due out 10/21 on PS4 and XB1?

 

[Forsythia]

While I don't exactly agree with the parity clause (I'd rather receive a game late than not at all), I get where he's coming from.

 

[Marcel]

Doesn't seem all that smart when your console is on the losing side.

As time passes and the gap between PS4 and X1 increases even more, this will carry less and less weight and will just result in X1 getting less games.

"Xbox One and indies: A focused experience with curated independent games."

 

[Toki767]

While I don't exactly agree with the parity clause (I'd rather receive a game late than not at all), I get where he's coming from.

I tend to think this is where Sony's new content clause for late ports on PS3 was probably a better idea.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

They should have called it the 'quality' clause then. Perhaps then there wouldn't be all of this ... 'misinterpretation'.

 

[Family Fry]

Isn't Devolver involved in Shadow Warrior due out 10/21 on PS4 and XB1?

Yeah devolver is the publisher I believe.

Devolver signed a "first for console" exclusivity on 5 games, under the current XB1 parity clause, that means all 5 of those games will never make it to xbox one.

BroForce, Not a Hero, Hotline Miami 2, Titan Souls and The Talos Principle.

 

[Marcel]

While that's surely a negative, part of me likes that I won't have to see a Steam-style over saturation of sub-par indie games on the XB1 store.

It's also flooding the indie space to the point where I don't even want to try the games sometimes. That's the negative effect in my opinion.

The usual suspects doing the "all indies look the same" thing.

 

[hawk2025]

It's a business, Phil's primary focus is Microsofts/Xbox interest he shouldn't give a shit about how it the rockstar indies feel. If they don't like it, no one has a gun held against their heads. Re-releasing the game on Xbox after it's become irrelevant is nothing more but an insult to MS and they shouldn't stand for it. No company should.

I'll help you.

Think of every little rockstar indie dev as a company instead of a person. Now read your comment again.

Now reevaluate why you needed to think of people as companies to get this.

 

[Maintenance]

What a load of crap, but I understand, that's his job to spin things.

 

[E92 M3]

Hmm, I'd rather get games then miss out on them completely.

 

[Kayant]

Many people on GAF is over reacting. Sony had a similar clause for PS2 titles, where you had to release on PS2 first or it wouldn't be approved "If" the game wasn't from a big publisher ( the only way to avoid the clause ). If you released on the original xbox first, your chances of disapproval or even being blacklisted were extremely high ( and yes Sony America did blacklist developers ).

They also wouldn't approve the game unless it had something unique added. Like extra levels, bonus content or basically anything that would make the game better on their platform. Or... you wouldn't get approval

Many people on GAF have no idea these are standard practices for Sony & MS. Sony has traditionally had more strict policies compared to MS!

And have they not learned and removed this policy.

How so?
Getting Tomb Raider first will make Xbox owners still feel like first class citizens. I'm sure he doesn't give a fuck how PS fans feel, which is fine.

True but they were already going to feel like first class citizens in the first place because the game would be launching at the same time on all platforms so why the need of the deal in the first place going with his logic here?

Holy shit the war is real.

Edit:

What sane platform holder would allow titles to come out 6-12 months later than on a rival console. It's insane, if the indie's don't like it then go platform exclusive. They moan it costs them money, well it's going to cost Microsoft money as well in missed revenue, effects of game not being available on their platforms.

It's a business, Phil's primary focus is Microsofts/Xbox interest he shouldn't give a shit about how it the rockstar indies feel. If they don't like it, no one has a gun held against their heads. Re-releasing the game on Xbox after it's become irrelevant is nothing more but an insult to MS and they shouldn't stand for it. No company should.

Holy shit this can't be real. So a dev that can only support one platform at the time should be automatically punished because their game don't have enough "hype". So all indie devs that don't have the resources and can only choose one platform and don't choose XB1 as that platform even though some circumstances don't allow for it or make it a less variable route will be considered "rockstars" according to you. Like seriously...

 

[HighResTomato]

And thus the xb misses out on some great games.

But hey, it looks like Phil got through to someone. It always makes sense as a consumer to consider the company's business needs over your own consumer experience. Less games good because MS bottom line better.

Well we are discussing their business models, not my own consumer experience right.

Ahahahaha..... ridiculous!
So it's the developers fault?
And "an insult to MS"...., lol... I heard it all. Hilarious!

Yes it is, their the developers. It's an insult to anybody imo but I guess it's got more to do with your personality.

Holy shit this can't be real. So a dev that can only support one platform at the time should be automatically punished because their game don't have enough "hype". So all indie devs that don't have the resources and can only choose one platform and don't choose XB1 as that platform even though some circumstances don't allow for it or make it a less variable route will be considered "rockstars" according to you. Like seriously...

Didn't say all, I said rockstar dev's pointing out the most vocal ones that already have released a game and are probably millionaires themselves who still pretend to be broke.

Wat? so you want no games that released on other plattforms before?

I'm indifferent, I've only bought a handful of indies and I only play those on the PC. Only got Minecraft on console but I don't regard that as typical "indie".

 

[Marcel]

What a load of crap, but I understand, that's his job to spin things.

And it's up to the I Believe in Phil Spencer people to tell us why it's a good thing. I gotta applaud their college try.

 

[Amir0x]

I'll help you.

Think of every little rockstar indie devs as a company instead of a person. Now read your comment again.

Now reevaluate why you needed to think of people as companies to get this.

But that means Microsoft is made of people too! Think of how their feelings will be hurt for not getting the game first or on the same day!

The usual suspects doing the "all indies look the same" thing.

heheh

games by metascore NOT available on the other console:

score   PS4     Xbox
90+       3        2
80+      21        3

Link

That's just for those games 80+ too.

See that gap? That's mostly all indies. That have not come to Xbox One. Partly because of the parity clause.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

The usual suspects doing the "all indies look the same" thing.

How did you get that from those two quotes?

 

[prwxv3]

Picking a choosing indies because they turn out popular after you denied them because they released first on another platform makes your look like fucking assholes.

And when you compare that behavior to Sony or Nintendo who will pretty much accept any indie game and even offer perks you look like a even bigger assholes.

If Phil Spencer actually cared about games he would not treat indie devs like shit.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm indifferent, I've only bought a handful of indies and I only play those on the PC. Only got Minecraft on console but I don't regard that as typical "indie".

why not? It's not a typical indie because you liked the game?

 

[Netherscourge]

It comes down to this for the indie developers:


A.) Sell to as many people as possible on every platform possible, conforming to the lowest common denominator's limitations and contractual restrictions if necessary.

or

B.) Make the game THEY want to make and sell it on the platform that supports THEIR OWN vision, without compromise.


-Most people will wisely choose (A) so they can actually make a living off their own work.


Sucks, but that's the way it is.

 

[Purest 78]

This is the guy so many people say is a gamer? He sounds like your average corporate talking head to me. Small dev teams simply can't afford development for multiple consoles. He's saying bring it to xbox 1st if not screw you. Sony came out the gate with a indie friendly plan set. MS did not and they're paying for it now.

 

[Marcel]

How did you get that from those two quotes?

Because this is not the first time I've seen certain people make apologies for Microsoft's backward, draconian policy or tout it as a "good thing" because it'll be "less like them sub-par Steam indies". Help me, I'm drowning in all these indie games. What can I, the internet-aware consumer do? I wish there was a way of searching for information about which ones are good in 2014.

 

[GeordieMark]

Typical MS: dirty scumbags always play dirty and pretend to be good guys at the same time. I love gaming, I might prefer PlayStation, but I also love Ninty and PC and I was a huge fan of Sega. As for MS they can fuck off, they are the only gaming company I have no respect. And I don't get all the love for Spencer, he looks fake and creepy to me along with his sidekick Larry. Do what you gotta do MS, but you will not get my money.

Lol. I bet you have Windows on that PC of yours.