Brad Grenz
Member
Remember when people would complain about tacked on multiplayer? Remember when people complained about games being pointlessly extended to hit target play times?
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Ready at Dawn responds to "concern" over The Order: 1886 campaign length
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
- Start date
Remember when people would complain about tacked on multiplayer? Remember when people complained about games being pointlessly extended to hit target play times?
And what's the best lenth for you? People were still complaining that it's short at a 10 hour lenth.
Bruh, pls.
EventHorizon
Member
Fair enough. I'm sure that The Order can be finished in a decent afternoon + evening. But like with a good piece of steak, I'dd rather take my time enjoying it instead of trying to clean my plate as fast as possible. The steak might have been expensive, and you could've gotten a heap of grounded meat as well for the same price, but man, nothing beats a nice piece of steak. Unless you're a vegetarian, then you're just silly
Funny you should mention taking your time. It definitely is a mindset. I am currently reading the Wheel of Time series and I'm on book 6 which I...think...is...going...extremely...slow. I looked up reviews for the book the other day and it has the exact same type of split. Some people admit that the pace is a bit slow but say they have no problems, and like just being in the world and soaking it up. Others (the ones who I agree with), think the books have gotten too much filler which is odd because the earlier books moved at a much more enjoyable pace.
At the base of it I think there is an action vs atmosphere conflict going on here. People are impressed by different things. The real question is to ask how big are each of those audiences.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Indeed. Like I said before I'll trade it in for cash for Bloodborne. And I can guarantee you I'll get at least 25 quid, possiblly 30 at CEX on the Monday. I paid 36 for the game. So in my eyes that's a fucking steal. If I do end up loving it like crazy then I'll keep it. But at the end of the day it's win win for consumers for day 1 purchasers and the people who will pick it up in the bargain bin in a few months... I've played plenty of games which I've completed in a matter of a few hours and loved it. vanquish being the first to come to mind.
CanUKlehead
Member
I remember the debates back in the day popping up because of MGS' length, especially after EGM's Platinum award.
It was the heyday of 50 hour RPGs and padded platformers and my guess is people would've been shocked at any single player game being less than 25 back then. So in a way, MGS to me helped pioneer acceptance of shorter, tighter single player games in a time of epics.
John Bender
Banned
Hey, that's cool! Thanks for the link.
And the 1.5 - 2 hours Ryse stuff on twitter/youtube was BS as it seems.
SensibleSucker
Member
Aye. I might go back and replay it too, because it's quick enough to do so. I loved ACIV, but once I finished it, that was it. I'm never touching it again.
WordsintheWater
Member
It just comes down to a difference of opinion. One of my favorite games of all time is Journey and that took me about 2 hours to complete, comparing that to a game like Dying Light which too me like 36 hours, of those two I would rather pay 60 dollars for Journey. Others would definitely not make the same choice I would, and that's fine. I just take issue with people saying that there's no place for these types of games. The amount of value a game holds for you is completely subjective.
xrnzaaas
Member
There are a few people already on psnprofiles with platinum trophies and the current record is ~10 hours.
Readingaid
Neo Member
Youd think he was answering the question whether God is real or not based on the replies in here.
Let me just throw this one out there, I live in London:
2x Tickets to one time showing of Ex Machina
2x £15 = £30
1x Large popcorn with drink = £9-£11
Purchase of Blu-Ray for awesome film and experience = £15-£20
TOTAL= £50+ was it worth it? absolutely.
Total purchase for COD:AW (only single player played mostly) £38-£45 Worth it? absolutely not.
Total purchase for GTAV (nxt gen and old gen- way over 100hrs of content, both digital) £120+ terrible story, gorgeous world, occasional MP with friends. On a whole loads of value useless to me.
Total purchase for Journey £20? played through twice, cant wait for next gen version, would gladly pay double the asking price, would happily double or triple dip, one of the best gaming experiences ever for me.
TLOU: Single player only nxt gen and last gen roughly £100 worth every penny for the experience.
What I am getting at is since when is length an indication of quality? not only that but everyones ridiculous argument over value is baseless when value is based on personal fulfillment. Im personally happy with the proposition that this is a shorter game with a deep and engaging story. I dont have time for hours and hours of useless strung together filler.
For instance I am stuggling to get through The Evil Within at the moment because it feels like it goes on forever. (Im on chapter 7 of 15) So I am essentially half way through and nothing has happened really apart from some rough story points and a disjointed narrative. Sure the gameplay is fun and it seem to be well balanced but why should I care? why am I even still playing this when I have no idea whats going on? It feels like a string of DLC missions stuck together.
Forgive me but my value of a game is probably old school, Im not too fussed with a game unless it has a good story or something I know I can invest in and get reward.
Let me just throw this one out there, I live in London:
2x Tickets to one time showing of Ex Machina
2x £15 = £30
1x Large popcorn with drink = £9-£11
Purchase of Blu-Ray for awesome film and experience = £15-£20
TOTAL= £50+ was it worth it? absolutely.
Total purchase for COD:AW (only single player played mostly) £38-£45 Worth it? absolutely not.
Total purchase for GTAV (nxt gen and old gen- way over 100hrs of content, both digital) £120+ terrible story, gorgeous world, occasional MP with friends. On a whole loads of value useless to me.
Total purchase for Journey £20? played through twice, cant wait for next gen version, would gladly pay double the asking price, would happily double or triple dip, one of the best gaming experiences ever for me.
TLOU: Single player only nxt gen and last gen roughly £100 worth every penny for the experience.
What I am getting at is since when is length an indication of quality? not only that but everyones ridiculous argument over value is baseless when value is based on personal fulfillment. Im personally happy with the proposition that this is a shorter game with a deep and engaging story. I dont have time for hours and hours of useless strung together filler.
For instance I am stuggling to get through The Evil Within at the moment because it feels like it goes on forever. (Im on chapter 7 of 15) So I am essentially half way through and nothing has happened really apart from some rough story points and a disjointed narrative. Sure the gameplay is fun and it seem to be well balanced but why should I care? why am I even still playing this when I have no idea whats going on? It feels like a string of DLC missions stuck together.
Forgive me but my value of a game is probably old school, Im not too fussed with a game unless it has a good story or something I know I can invest in and get reward.
SensibleSucker
Member
No worries. I've saved that website myself as it might come in handy in future.
Yeah, I don't think that any of those people wanted full price, 5 hour games with no replay value and unskippable cutscenes to be the answer to that. And 'tacked on' multiplayer was only a criticism when the multiplayer was an afterthought and not very good. Look at TLOU as an example of how to get basically everything right. Great length (14 hours first playthrough for me), story focused yet still has excellent gameplay and a superb multiplayer mode.
John Bender
Banned
Just like me ;D
Will be very useful.
This is what i was saying before. We didn't have a problem with "short" linear games back then, so what's the problem now? It's not like all games are like this anymore. It's good to change things up from all these open world games.
They come around pretty damn often if you look beyond the AAA bubble.
While that's certainly my plan, I can't say that idea would work for everyone. There are plenty of countries without rental services, I would imagine. I would imagine that there are plenty of states without rental services as well, but I can't say for sure. Also, regardless, people have opinions about video games and this is a forum. A lot of us are here because we enjoy the discussions, so there's not really anything to let go of, as it's just a hobby that many of us are passionate about.
Maybe I've misread your comment, and if I have I'm sorry, it's very late and I should have gone to sleep a couple of hours ago. I'd think that there are plenty of people here who are going to rent or wait, but are here to discuss the release all the same. Things like this do sometimes have an impact on the industry that is greater than what we can see at this moment.
Langdon Alger
Banned
There's a middle ground between 20 hours of fetch quests and a five hour game that has 2 hours of cutscenes.
Avatar quote [?]
There is absolutely nothing poisonous about demanding more from developers. If they stuck a bunch of lazy fetch quests in there to pad out the time then people would complain about that too. Its our responsibility as the consumer to let them know when we dont like something.
-MD-
Member
You're like 6-7 hours into a 15 hour game.
You answered your own question, because it's a video game and it's fun. I'm not even sure why someone would play a Mikami game for the story but most of the story related stuff is in the 2nd half of the game.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yeah, and my parents and I would get pissed off when it happened(Home Alone for SNES, for example). Of course, I also found many of the great games from those era's to be highly replayable(no cutscenes, all gameplay, unless RPG's), and getting good was apart of the fun, doing things like no-death runs(the short length helped with this). Also, and this is a big one, I was a kid with very few options, like so many during that era, therefore I would play that game over and over and over anyways. We often took what we could get, outside of hitting up a rental place.
I can vote with my own wallet these days though.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Amen. Couldn't agree more.
How do you know those are the same people?
FeiRR
Banned
Heavy Rain and Beyond sold very well. Remember that those are 10-12 hour games and their creator recommends playing them once and never coming back. So the reality doesn't agree with you. There's a lot of space for this kind of games. Not blockbuster kind of space but still profitable for their devs and publishers.
Because I like this kind of games and I want to show that through my support for the developer. I also love games which look awesome, especially on consoles, so I'd buy it just for that anyway. I hope SP cinematic games have its place in the future, especially when we know that most AAA games will become F2P, MP only, socially connected, open world, unlock-the-towers or fantasy MMO style kind of experiences.
Not everyone plays MP, believe it or not some people just pick up that series for the campaign (as short as it is)
The problem "now" is that many of today's gamers didn't grow up playing the NES or 16 bit consoles. Many of today's gamers have grown up playing games during the "open world and/or online multiplayer" boom so there's a decent amount of people who want a lot out of a game that costs $60.
Personally, I'm fine with games of any length -- it just that a $60 game that's (say) 4 hours long or less has to be REALLY good for me to buy it. I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of me getting it (since the game could still blow me away) but it would have to be an amazing experience. If it isn't and/or gets mixed feedback then I'll just wait for the game to become cheaper if I'm still interested in it.
Some people simply have different expectations these days for the games that get hyped the most due to what they are familiar with when it comes to the games they usually spend $60 on.
Ah, I understand completely. There's nothing more infuriating than having someone tell you that what you like isn't acceptable, and I can see how that could be extracted from even my own words, in some cases. I'll say now, though, that I apologize if anything I've said has made anyone think that I want their games to not exist. I wouldn't want someone saying that to me, and I'd hate to think that I've unintentionally said that to someone else.
Anyway, it's rather late and I should head to bed. Take it easy, and we'll see how the game holds up pretty soon! My fingers are crossed that I come away saying it's worth $60, the world needs more good games.
I'm a big supporter of shorter games in general. I think long and bloated campaigns that a small number of players ever finish is not the best way to go at it.
On another hand 60 dollars (more outside of the US) is a lot of money to ask for an afternoon worth of entertainment. Those 60 dollars are almost the price of half an year of Netflix or something.
As long as AAA releases prices are this high and with so many games available to play some discontentment towards shorter AAA experiences will happen.
Of course this all comes back to the whole "AAA games are to expensive" problem since I think that's the main cause of this.
On another hand 60 dollars (more outside of the US) is a lot of money to ask for an afternoon worth of entertainment. Those 60 dollars are almost the price of half an year of Netflix or something.
As long as AAA releases prices are this high and with so many games available to play some discontentment towards shorter AAA experiences will happen.
Of course this all comes back to the whole "AAA games are to expensive" problem since I think that's the main cause of this.
except we don't know it is 5 hours, or that it has no replay value.
And to get to TLOU, ND first had to make Uncharted which is a short, linear TPS with lots of cutscenes (don't remember if they are skippable) and limited replay value. They did pretty well though.
That could very well be the case yet it's hard to ignore that the main content in CoD games is the multiplayer and it can't be ignored when we look at the price.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
I'm one of those people including many of my friends. We all played cod4 multiplayer back in the day but now we just grab the cod games for the bombastic single player fun over the weekend and then trade it in after
CanUKlehead
Member
No, that's all fair and thanks for the cordial response. I was speaking more to the people who have options, basically, and not too attached to the game in the first place. I love the discussion (like I said, wasn't trying to be snarky). I just feel like if you don't find it had value for you (well not YOU, specifically), let your wallet do the talking and skip it. I also now realize it doesn't really apply to those who were real interested and are just disappointed in the length, but like everything else, so will buy it day one.
So you're right, 'let it go' was unfair in the grand scheme of things, if the shitstorm puts developers on notice as to what we'll find acceptable or not ($2 horse armor comes to mind), great.
Now go to bed!
Dragon Puncher
Member
Okay, cool. This game seems like a crazy easy platinum.
family_guy
Member
I already bought it and I'm looking forward to it regardless of length. We need new IP. There's little out there so far this gen sans the indie games. This might be the "Uncharted 1" of the franchise but I enjoyed that game too and it's a good start.
Your last sentence there " Its our responsibility as the consumer to let them know when we dont like something". According to that we don't like cinematic games, 5 hour single player campaigns, cutscenes, black bars, quick time events or standard tps gameplay mechanics. If any devs paid attention to any gaming forums they would not have a game to make because we pretty much hate everything. Devs should stay out of these places and make the games they want to make.
jmaine_ph
Member
This. This is how I feel. These guys worked hard and from first glance they delivered one of the best looking console games to date. The story seems pretty good and shows a lot of potential. No one expected uncharted to turn into what it is today after playing the first one and I hope RAD can capture that same magic.
Is this a hardcore gaming forum or some consumer product value comparison website?
I can't fathom the mentality about game length. Quality trumps all else. If you don't think that then wait for a price drop. Personally, If I see a game I like that grabs me by the setting, gameplay or some other quantity then I buy it, no matter what reviews, impressions or some arbitrary running time is.
I can't fathom the mentality about game length. Quality trumps all else. If you don't think that then wait for a price drop. Personally, If I see a game I like that grabs me by the setting, gameplay or some other quantity then I buy it, no matter what reviews, impressions or some arbitrary running time is.
GeordieMark
Member
Games are not movies, nor are they books. I don't know why people keep directly comparing them.
Games are games.
Readingaid
Neo Member
I wonder if people were worried about the next Marios length back in the day.
Why do you care if shops sell it early? Street dates are such bullshit. Artificially delaying release for chart positions and maximum hype.
Lol he has a point. Do you pre-judge movies or books before you have watched or read them? Is it fair to do the same with games?
All of these games at the time of release brought something unique to the table. We've more or less played The Order before. The graphics stand out, everything else is par for the course.
I agree with this post.
Heavy emphasis on "these days".. Times have changed, so have expectations.
I've seen enough of the game to come up with my magic number for a purchase ($29-$39). I may change my stance depending on impressions, but right now I just don't see. I'm expecting an average gameplay experience with killer graphics.
It comes down to the base content no?
Books are somewhat of a different beast... Movies, I can dismiss a movie based on the trailer alone. I'm old enough to know what interest me.
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