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[Sho_Nuff82]

I'm not playing content that is supposed to be paid for. I'm not accessing anything that's not going to be free to access in Halo: Online's complete release.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but the title of this thread is very misleading. There is currently no way to play Halo: Online with any of the content hidden behind microtransactions. The game that I'm playing and arguing for is Halo 3. There are no weapon skins, no armor abilities, etc... There is no free access to paid content.

Right now you guys are basically arguing against people who play games like Titanfall or Battlefield early using VPNs.

This is still a moral gray area because it's so new, but we've had this conversation about F2P phone games on here in the past, and my stance is the same now as it was then; removing the DLC hooks from a F2P game, removing cooldown times to circumvent pay 2 win models, or modding in DLC items, are all forms of piracy.

If you want to play Halo 3 online in America, you have to buy an Xbox 360/One, pay for LIVE, and buy the game for $15 (or free, if you buy a One). Being in a market with a viable console industry, you do not have a right to free Halo. Your options are quite easy; pay for it like everyone else, or don't play it.

.

You didn't even selectively quote me, I don't know how you missed these parts of my post.

Microsoft have to make their offering superior, give gamers a good reason to play their version. Valve has proved this with Steam and their games in Russia and elsewhere. If Halo Online fails, make a better game on a better platform with better services and features. Using piracy as an excuse for pay to win trash is pathetic, build something that users will be happy to pay for or free with paid customisation or both to offer free maps. Mod friendly. It's like Valve and Steam don't exist, look at how they achieve it without compromising the core game. The community are a talented bunch and many gamers will happily play if you give them a good game with good features. There will always be pirates but you can make them not matter.

Halo Online won't fail because of pirates, Microsoft will have made the wrong game.

Regardless of how the game performs, the discussion is about whether it's right for posters here to advocate piracy simply because they disagree with how a game was put together.

Fable Legends is also F2P (and on PC/console WW), are we going to be supporting modded servers there as well?

 

[Pizza]

All those assets you are using in Eldurito are given to players with the knowledge that they will populate Halo: Online, Making it a viable population for micro transactions and thus one to pay for it's development. If you are not part of that population then you are using content outside it's terms and conditions and that is a breach of contract.

An argument could be made that, since these players won't be populating halo online, they could use them to make a halo 3 fangame. Halo Online now has two branching paths of development: Microsoft's Russian game, and the fanmade Halo 3 CE.


I read somewhere about replacing armor with the Halo 3 options. I think by the time both games are "done" they'll be significantly different. One could argue that this happening so early ruined the possible market, but since most the world is not included in the intended market and won't be able to pay Microsoft, I think it'd only be a matter of time before people cracked halo online and did this.


Regardless of when, if halo online is really similar halo 3 in terms of coding, then I think that the massive fan base that wants a halo 3 pc would have made it happen sooner or later.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

What am I playing right now that I should only have access to if I pay for it?

There's that pigheadedness again.

Salt overdose, mustn't laugh.

Don't be an arse.

Contribute something meaningful or jog on...

 

[RandomExpletive]

Everything that they will charge for that people are getting for free? Like here

So basically you can play this game online and use the content that is going to be charged for once the game goes gold without spending the money for the content?

Sounds like piracy to me.

As far as I can tell, the modders have the intention of removing these paywalled items from the game, so no, people will be playing the game with the vanilla weapons, vehicles, etc.

 

[Conkerkid11]

You didn't even selectively quote me, I don't know how you missed these parts of my post.

That's because I'm certain you wouldn't like my response.

I play my FPS games with a mouse and keyboard. I also play them at max settings, at 60fps or higher. I do not like Halo: MCC's performance issues. I do not like playing with a controller and aim assist.

I also do not appreciate 343i completely destroying the Forge community, and am looking forward to Eldurito possibly supporting the Forge community once again.

I also don't want to pay $15 a month to access servers that are subpar at best.

There's that pigheadedness again.



Don't be an arse.

Contribute something meaningful or jog on...

Pretty sure namecalling like this is a bannable offense.

What are you offering to the argument?

Also, extremely hypocritical.

 

[MrGreencastle]

How about you donate $60 dollars to Saber Interactive in exchange for playing their game that you can't play yet?

Heh, I think a lot of people here would do this and argue that the mere fact you can't is one of the main factors to what's driving people to keep developing these types of tools in the first place.

 

[Synth]

What am I playing right now that I should only have access to if I pay for it?

We've been over this. When you play an online f2p game, and don't pay for any of it's microtransactions, you're still benefitting the company the made it. You provide competition for other players, which includes those that are paying. This is one of the reasons why the alternative to paying is usually grinding. You are encouraged to play longer to keep the game populated. If all free players of an f2p game disappear, then the paying players will disappear also... which is why they don't give you the goddamn executable and tell you to go ahead and connect it to whatever third-party service you like. The f2p version of Halo Online isn't really free... you pay for it with your time in exchange for the service they offer you.

 

[Bsigg12]

As far as I can tell, the modders have the intention of removing these paywalled items from the game, so no, people will be playing the game with the vanilla weapons, vehicles, etc.

Ok, but the issue still is there is no way for the game to be monetized at that point. Take away the option for microtransactions and all that's left is a free game with no way of making money from people playing.

 

[Bessy67]

Where do I do this at?


Nobody is circumventing the F2P elements.

They simply don't exist. There's no way to obtain them. We are playing a version of the game which doesn't include them at all.

So will you stop playing if (and I say if because I wouldn't be surprised if MS just canceled this project after seeing how eager people are to pirate it) the full release comes out and has microtransactions?

 

[NullPointer]

As far as I can tell, the modders have the intention of removing these paywalled items from the game, so no, people will be playing the game with the vanilla weapons, vehicles, etc.

That's where things start to get murky for me, and intentions don't mean much when there is no monopoly on development.

which is why they don't give you the goddamn executable and tell you to go ahead and connect it to whatever third-party service you like.

Well, I guess they can ask people not to, but if people want to isn't that their own business?

 

[StalkerUKCG]

An argument could be made that, since these players won't be populating halo online, they could use them to make a halo 3 fangame. Halo Online now has two branching paths of development: Microsoft's Russian game, and the fanmade Halo 3 CE.


I read somewhere about replacing armor with the Halo 3 options. I think by the time both games are "done" they'll be significantly different. One could argue that this happening so early ruined the possible market, but since most the world is not included in the intended market and won't be able to pay Microsoft, I think it'd only be a matter of time before people cracked halo online and did this.


Regardless of when, if halo online is really similar halo 3 in terms of coding, then I think that the massive fan base that wants a halo 3 pc would have made it happen sooner or later.

That Halo 3 CE is using stolen assets for Halo 3. They are talking about recoding everything from Big Endian to Little Endian.

It's all moot. No one has any right to any of this content unless specifically granted by the developer and publisher, It might not be a legal crime but it's very morally objectionable to use content that others made and will profit from without their consent. It's way beyond fair use.

This content wasn't made free to everyone. When it's made free it's made free to people who will populate it's online community and in doing so give others a reason to play and ultimately pay.

 

[VariantX]

This whole situation has gotten me wondering why not just make a halo fan game in another engine with community made assets? Its not like people havent done this before with other games, and it wouldn't be subject to all these region restrictions and whatnot.

 

[shandy706]

The fact that this is code to an unfinished game that will eventually come out, I morally won't touch it.

Morals are different, but I personally will stay away.

The moment I realized it was an unreleased Alpha (that isn't dead or will never see the light of day) I was like "nope".

Don't care if it will eventually be free. They'd never see a dime from me either, as I don't put jack into f2p with my own money...ever. I'll still wait for an official beta (if there ever is one) or the f2p game when it comes out.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

That's because I'm certain you wouldn't like my response.

I play my FPS games with a mouse and keyboard. I also play them at max settings, at 60fps or higher. I do not like Halo: MCC's performance issues. I do not like playing with a controller and aim assist.

I also do not appreciate 343i completely destroying the Forge community, and am looking forward to Eldurito possibly supporting the Forge community once again.

I also don't want to pay $15 a month to access servers that are subpar at best.


Pretty sure namecalling like this is a bannable offense.

What are you offering to the argument?

Also, extremely hypocritical.

So you don't like the product that 343/MS has put on shelves for purchase, and you don't want to pay for LIVE, so that justifies stealing the assets so you can play it at your leisure.

Oh, and where is XBL $15 a month?

 

[NullPointer]

It might not be a legal crime but it's very morally objectionable to use content that others made and will profit from without their consent.

Free-to-play and pay-to-win systems are also problematic if we're going to go there.

 

[Synth]

Well, I guess they can ask people not to, but if people want to isn't that their own business?

Well no, because again that's like saying if someone cracks some trial software, isn't that just their own business? Piracy is obviously the user's own business in all cases... but you're still taking someone's work, and avoiding compensating them for it.

 

[Bessy67]

Free-to-play and pay-to-win systems are also problematic if we're going to go there.

The developer should be able to implement whatever payment model for their game that they want. Maybe you don't like it, but that doesn't give you the right to change it.

 

[Tzeentch]

Pretty sure namecalling like this is a bannable offense.

So is talking about piracy, but that's certainly not stopping you.

I thought you were "out" of this thread. Couldn't resist trying to justify your piracy?

 

[Conkerkid11]

We've been over this. When you play an online f2p game, and don't pay for any of it's microtransactions, you're still benefitting the company the made it. You provide competition for other players, which includes those that are paying. This is one of the reasons why the alternative to paying is usually grinding. You are encouraged to play longer to keep the game populated. If all free players of an f2p game disappear, then the paying players will disappear also... which is why they don't give you the goddamn executable and tell you to go ahead and connect it to whatever third-party service you like. The f2p version of Halo Online isn't really free... you pay for it with your time in exchange for the service they offer you.

Halo: Online doesn't exist right now. My playing of this leaked game is not damaging any potential sales, because those potential sales can't even exist yet.

If Microsoft releases a good Halo game for PC, it will be a success. If they don't, it's not because the community made something better, but because Microsoft produced something worse.

So will you stop playing if (and I say if because I wouldn't be surprised if MS just canceled this project after seeing how eager people are to pirate it) the full release comes out and has microtransactions?

It depends on how well they support the game. If it has a friends list and all that jazz, of course.

Currently, the game I can play allows me to search for servers based on their gametype, map, number of players, region, etc... I can also join matches in progress. Halo: MCC does not allow this, and I doubt Halo: Online will either.

If these microtransactions benefit players in a way that isn't purely cosmetic, that will also turn me away. Currently, weapon skins provide stat bonuses. That's a huge turn-off. CS: GO is successful because their microtransactions buy you cosmetic items. Same with Dota 2 up until that one event.

The game we currently have access to also has Forge mode, which I doubt Halo: Online will have.

If the complete release of Halo: Online is better than what the community creates, I will play it and support Saber and Microsoft.

But with the way things are likely to play out, Halo: Online will not be consumer-friendly.

I said it in a previous post, and I recently quoted another user who said the same thing, but Valve is successful with their F2P releases, because they're consumer-friendly. The same goes with Riot and Hi-Rez.

So far, Halo: Online doesn't look like a good game.

So is talking about piracy, but that's certainly not stopping you.

I thought you were "out" of this thread. Couldn't resist trying to justify your piracy?

I got bored. Hopefully if this thread gets out of hand, it's just closed. But I'll likely be banned as well, which will be really unfortunate.

So you don't like the product that 343/MS has put on shelves for purchase, and you don't want to pay for LIVE, so that justifies stealing the assets so you can play it at your leisure.

Oh, and where is XBL $15 a month?

Whoops, $40 a year, my bad. Got it confused with other subscriptions.

I purchased the product 343i and MS put on the shelves, and didn't like it. That justifies me accessing Halo: Online before its official release.

Once again, basically arguing against those who use VPN services to play games early. If I accessed GTA V right now early through a VPN, is that piracy?

 

[Tzeentch]

So far, Halo: Online doesn't look like a good game..

Good enough for you to pirate it, and be quite proud of said act. At least be consistent with your justifications.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Can someone explain to me how it's possible to pirate a free game?

 

[Yudoken]

As bad as someone sees all this modding MS brought up this them themselves.
If they just announced Halo Master Chief Collection for pc nobody would've bothered with this, people would buy the collection and be happy with it.
The game was already programmed and running (like all games) on pc and this gen there are less reasons than ever before for MS not to port their games to pc.
The only reason not to bring it to pc is probably to push the Xbox One which is already extremely uninteresting for people who are already own a pc with a quad core and something like a 750ti (which outperforms a Xbox one).
MS gave pc gamers all over the world the middle fingers for years.
Halo Online was just another middle finger to them, f2p, only multiplayer, no single player, no splitscreen, russia only and other reason did end in this mess.
I don't support this but everbody right in his mind knew this could happen to them.
I'm actually suprised how fast it happened.
The only thing right to do is to finally announce the game, it would be great as an Directx12 Windows 10 game.

 

[Card Boy]

Can someone explain to me how it's possible to pirate a free game?

You can't, it's just copyright infringement. Nothing else.

 

[NullPointer]

The developer should be able to implement whatever payment model for their game that they want. Maybe you don't like it, but that doesn't give you the right to change it.

They have that right, and I can run my own version of a server if I want to, forwarding requests from the game client to my own back-end without cracking the app or modifying its source.

I can see how people might disagree with the ethics of doing something like that, but if we're just talking rights, what right does a company have to keep me from doing this?

 

[Conkerkid11]

Good enough for you to pirate it, and be quite proud of said act. At least be consistent with your justifications.

Why are you screencapping deleted posts?

 

[Bessy67]

You can't, it's just copyright infringement. Nothing else.

From Merriam Webster:

piracy
noun pi·ra·cy \ˈpī-rə-sē\
: the act of attacking and stealing from a ship at sea

: the act of illegally copying someone's product or invention without permission

: the act of illegally making television or radio broadcasts

How does that definition not fit the current situation?

 

[KHlover]

Can someone explain to me how it's possible to pirate a free game?

The creator, even if he decides to make his content available for free, has all distribution rights. Distributing his content without explicit permission is illegal, so is downloading that illegally distributed content.

In most cases no one cares when free content gets reuploaded somewhere else, but in this case the situation is a bit more...juicy.

 

[Leflus]

Can someone explain to me how it's possible to pirate a free game?

Since when did they hand out Halo Online with no strings attached?

F2P games are usually not "free". They just have different business models compared to games that use more traditional pricing strategies.

 

[Welfare]

From Merriam Webster:

piracy
noun pi·ra·cy \ˈpī-rə-sē\
: the act of attacking and stealing from a ship at sea

: the act of illegally copying someone's product or invention without permission

: the act of illegally making television or radio broadcasts

How does that definition not fit the current situation?

Because reasons.

 

[MrGreencastle]

I think we should avoid calling people pirates and calling for bans just because they are interested in discussing this situation. It's fair if someone doesn't agree with your stance. People need to Chill Out.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Since when did they hand out Halo Online with no strings attached?

F2P games are usually not "free". They just have different business models compared to games that use more traditional pricing strategies.

None of the paid content is available to use in the "pirated" version.

 

[Surbii]

This whole situation has gotten me wondering why not just make a halo fan game in another engine with community made assets? Its not like people havent done this before with other games, and it wouldn't be subject to all these region restrictions and whatnot.

I had a thought like this too. It would be a huge undertaking, but you only really need a BR, grenades and a map at first.

 

[Magwik]

Normally when you download the client for a F2P game don't they have you sign a terms of service? It'll be interesting to see what the terms are regarding Halo Online

 

[Bsigg12]

None of the paid content is available to use in the "pirated" version.

Sure, but there's no systems in place for the game to make any money at that point.

 

[CambriaRising]

Sure, but there's no systems in place for the game to make any money at that point.

They weren't going to anyway because the market literally doesn't exist for these regions.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

So far, Halo: Online doesn't look like a good game.

I agree. But all those assets you are using for eldorito come from Halo Online. It's all content that is being used without consent from the creators. You have no right to it but you will still use it because you feel entitled to it.

Now it's not straightforward piracy because it's not content that has a monetary system attached to it yet. However you have no legal right to that content because it was distributed to select individuals in Russia only.

Copyright infringement is the use of works protected by copyright law without permission, infringing certain exclusive rights granted to the copyright holder, such as the right to reproduce, distribute, display or perform the protected work, or to make derivative works. The copyright holder is typically the work's creator, or a publisher or other business to whom copyright has been assigned. Copyright holders routinely invoke legal and technological measures to prevent and penalize copyright infringement.

Copyright holders frequently refer to copyright infringement as theft. In copyright law, infringement does not refer to theft of physical objects that take away the owner's possession, but an instance where a person exercises one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder without authorization.

It's a civil crime.

 

[Mufausa The 3rd]

Because Microsoft is losing SOOOOO much money because of this.

Sadly Microsoft is too busy focusing on Xbox unit sales vs PC games sales. So it kinda bit them in the ass. Lets be honest, piracy or not. They had this coming to them.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Normally when you download the client for a F2P game don't they have you sign a terms of service? It'll be interesting to see what the terms are regarding Halo Online

If the terms are "no mods allowed", I say this to Microsoft: Good Luck.

 

[Leflus]

None of the paid content is available to use in the "pirated" version.

I don't see how that makes a difference.

The changes that have been made to the pirated version undermines the business model in the original version.

 

[Bsigg12]

They weren't going to anyway because the market literally doesn't exist for these regions.

Which regions?

 

[Conkerkid11]

Sure, but there's no systems in place for the game to make any money at that point.

Because Halo: Online isn't currently accessible yet.

When the game releases, they'll make their money from it, whether or not this community project exists.

The only way the official release won't make a profit is if it's bad.

Once again, if Halo: Online is bad, it's not Eldurito's fault for being better.

 

[wwm0nkey]

This whole situation has gotten me wondering why not just make a halo fan game in another engine with community made assets? Its not like people havent done this before with other games, and it wouldn't be subject to all these region restrictions and whatnot.

GAFlo is currently in the works, but my school has caused a delay in programming :c

Super rough early preview
Just need do some more coding and fix bugs, add animation, weapons and character models in and then work on maps and balance.

 

[MrGreencastle]

GAFlo is currently in the works, but my school has caused a delay in programming :c

Super rough early preview
Just need do some more coding and fix bugs, add animation, weapons and character models in and then work on maps and balance.

That is awesome!

 

[Gareth Bale]

The ban baiting in this thread is embarrassing.

Some of you getting so caught up in the definition of piracy that you're not thinking for yourselves.

 

[Conkerkid11]

This whole situation has gotten me wondering why not just make a halo fan game in another engine with community made assets? Its not like people havent done this before with other games, and it wouldn't be subject to all these region restrictions and whatnot.

Murder Miners

Reading the name aloud, I just realized how terrible a name it is.

The ban baiting in this thread is embarrassing.

Some of you getting so caught up in the definition of piracy that you're not thinking for yourselves.

I should probably read the rules.

 

[andrerobot]

None of the paid content is available to use in the "pirated" version.

The game, including all its assets, is financed by paid content.

And piracy is not only about not paying for a game, i's about illegally distributing or using copyrighted works.

 

[Surbii]

Murder Miners

Reading the name aloud, I just realized how terrible a name it is.


I should probably read the rules.

I was hoping for something a little less voxelly.

 

[Conkerkid11]

I was hoping for something a little less voxelly.

Yeah, it's not the most visually appealing game ever. But it's a lot of fun.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I think we should avoid calling people pirates and calling for bans just because they are interested in discussing this situation. It's fair if someone doesn't agree with your stance. People need to Chill Out.

If it quacks like a duck.

When presented with definitions of piracy and copyright infringement if people are still denying that it falls into either or both then it's just ignorance.

 

[Compsiox]

If this is piracy then why haven't the mods done anything? Is it a grey area? People here seem super duper sure it's piracy. These threads should be locked.