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[RyudBoy]

44 cars is a fucking lot.

 

[flipswitch]

Tearing is gonna ruin this for me.

Tearing and frame rate drops, the two things I hated in GT5/6 and now in PC.

 

[Mohasus]

I know the discussion is about the graphics but I couldn't watch that video for more than one minute.

Whoever is playing these games is terrible, how can you miss every other turn with the driving line on?

 

[Seanspeed]

That's the developers choice. They decided it was preferable to have the option, despite the unavoidable framerate drop. I agree with them. If you don't agree, that sucks, but you can just try to avoid 44 car races and keep it to, I don't know, 16?

This doesn't affect me whatsoever. I'm not getting it on console. But I fear it *will* affect the game's reputation on consoles.

 

[Foshy]

huh that's weird considering we heard reports of it running at a solid 60 fps. maybe those previews already had a day 1 patch applied?

 

[stryke]

Black fences exclusive to PS4

 

[Always-honest]

The pixelcrawling is VERY distracting on the XboxOne version imo. A really big difference in image quality. Also, the framerate.

Who the hell was driving in the rain? Damn that was either really bad driving or it's impossible to keep a car on the road in this game.

Still, 44 cars.. WOW.

edit: i'm not so certain about the physics in this game... they seem off.

 

[Seanspeed]

This is not getting Project Morpheus support, quite clearly.

 

[dreamstation]

huh that's weird considering we heard reports of it running at a solid 60 fps. maybe those previews already had a day 1 patch applied?

I doubt a day one patch could improve frame rates from mid 30's to a solid 60!

 

[GHG]

PC it is then for me.

To be honest though they seem to have done a pretty good job with the ps4 version all things considered.

 

[SmokyDave]

Hmmm. Starting to wonder if maybe I should get this on PC. It'll probably look and run worse than the PS4 version, but I could upgrade down the line. Plus, I'd get to use my wheel.

Hmmm.

 

[Huggers]

Hmm. Usually this would be a deal breaker but I can manage without too many 44 car races. You'd assume half that would even the frame rate out substantially

 

[cyberheater]

I never understood why more devs don't use a dynamic frame resolution ala WipeoutHD and Wolfenstein to maintain a rock solid 60fps on consoles.

 

[Mogwai]

Does the game have a 30 fps limiter on the consoles?

 

[Risk Breaker]

Judging from the video, they could probably remove most of the drops by simply pairing down/downscaling the rain spray alpha effect.

But then people would complain to no end about "jaggy" effects, like GT5's *shrug*.

I'd personally prefer a lower resolution alpha effect (or a limit to the amount of spray effects at once on screen, the performance penalties multiply with each effect on top of another), but it could be worse.

This was a terrible, terrible idea. They should have stuck to having just one setting on consoles. Leave all this customization to PCs. Not having a single performance setting is a dev's way of blaming the gamer if it doesn't play well.

"Performance sucks? Who asked you to change the setting?"

Don't give us configurable performance settings on non-configurable hardware. That isn't a meaningful choice. It's a minefield of compromise that you are egging the gamer to walk through.

It doesn't have anything to do with those options posted in another thread. These are purely gameplay options.

This doesn't affect me whatsoever. I'm not getting it on console. But I fear it *will* affect the game's reputation on consoles.

Yeah, I thought you would get it on PC instead. In any case, well, it all depends on how blown out this "issue" (it's purely a hardware limitation) gets, and how many people will understand that if they want feature parity and decent graphics at 1080p, you can't get 60 FPS with 44 cars on track with rain, more like ~45.

 

[Three]

Black fences exclusive to PS4

What is that white streak in the pic? Is anybody else seeing it? It only appeared after I reloaded the image.

 

[Paz]

This is....non final code.

Actually that is exactly what submission code is meant to be and its entire purpose for existing.

Of course not all code passes submission but the intent is for it to be final, plus it's not performance or visuals that would get it knocked back from submission.

 

[ShamePain]

If anything this kills the dream of night and weather in forza 6, turn10 is very unlikely to sacrifice 1080p/locked 60. Shame.

 

[Foshy]

I doubt a day one patch could improve frame rates from mid 30's to a solid 60!

Have you watched the video? The framerate is mostly fine in sunny weather, it's heavy rain which causes problems. I'm sure they can make optimizations there. Not rock-solid 60 but improvements should be doable. I remain optimistic here.

 

[matrix-cat]

Glad to see GAF at its level-headed best in another Digital Foundry thread. Game drops to 30 on the starting grid in what is literally the most taxing possible configuration of track selection, opponent number, weather and camera view, something you're never going to see unless you specifically seek it out by tweaking the game's extensive settings, and people decide it obviously needs another delay, pre-orders are cancelled, ten-foot poles readied. Business as usual, then.

 

[Seanspeed]

Does the game have a 30 fps limiter on the consoles?

It's sad that this should even be considered.

I don't think they should do it. The game will still feel a ton better when you're not in more extreme conditions with huge grids. A racing sim should not be played at 30fps.

 

[Risk Breaker]

huh that's weird considering we heard reports of it running at a solid 60 fps. maybe those previews already had a day 1 patch applied?

They more likely stuck to dry races, which seem perfectly fine. Alpha effects gonna alpha effect.

 

[Scaramanger]

There were some recent performance improvements that called for all hands on deck testing that made a big difference, even on PC, I'm guessing this build was pre that.

 

[cHaOs667]

If anything this kills the dream of night and weather in forza 6, turn10 is very unlikely to sacrifice 1080p/locked 60. Shame.

And they are right 60fps all the way for sim racers!

That the consoles drop to the 30s is a big drawback - so i will wait for Forza 6.

 

[aygomyownroad]

Wtf? That's a hell of a drop in bad weather on both consoles.

They should have had 30fps, run more smoothly, I know purists demand 60fps, but when its not stable like this I'd rather settle for less than a stuttering mess

 

[Marlenus]

Framerate *is* king in a racing sim. This is not about options, but about having the gameplay hold up so people can drive properly.

You keep making exaggerated alternatives. Nobody is asking them to do 1080p or 90fps or only have one car. But not letting the framerate drop into the 30's or even low 40's would significantly improve the actual act of driving, which is what this game is all about in the end.

In my experience, large grids in these sorts of games run into CPU limitations that cause these framerate drops. Cutting down the grid to like 24-30 could potentially increase performance dramatically without having to do anything extreme like you keep suggesting.

With the option there it is up to the player to decide. They might be happy to live with the drops at the start of a race to enable a 44 car grid. Also remember this is a worst case scenario with 44 cars in the rain while starting at the back in chase cam.

Not to say it is acceptable but this is a balancing act between limiting options to make sure the worst case scenario hits your FPS target at all times and giving the player options that will work in a lot of cases but in the most extreme cases might underperform.

As you already said you will not get it on the consoles but for me, who likely will, I can just avoid the settings that drop it miles below 60 while having the options to increase it if I feel like I want to even though it will reduce performance.

 

[Huggers]

One thing that could be argued is perhaps if they'd lowered the resolution of the PS4 version it may have been to the games benefit. Guess it depends how often such drops occur. Kinda sounds like the scenarios won't happen that often

 

[viveks86]

It doesn't have anything to do with those options posted in another thread. These are purely gameplay options.

I'm not referring to the gameplay options that some are discussing here. I'm referring to this in the OP:

The game's frame-rate is also a sticking point. Project Cars targets an ambitious 60fps on each platform, but the sheer breadth of options gives players the power to determine whether it hits this mark, or drops closer to 30fps.

I wasn't very active when the other thread was doing the rounds, so reading this made me want to comment on the matter.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

What is that white streak in the pic? Is anybody else seeing it? It only appeared after I reloaded the image.

It looks like the map of the road to me.

 

[Three]

Judging from the video, they could probably remove most of the drops by simply pairing down/downscaling the rain spray alpha effect.

I'd personally prefer a lower resolution alpha effect (or a limit to the amount of spray effects at once on screen, the performance penalties multiply with each effect on top of another), but it could be worse.

It doesn't have anything to do with those options posted in another thread. These are purely gameplay options.

I suspect it will have a noticeable though minor impact. Especially as one of the options is the rain effects on the screen and lens flare. FOV may also make a difference in some circumstances.

It looks like the map of the road to me.

That would make sense. Don't know why I didn't notice it the first time.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

They should never have bothered with console versions of this. Too much compromise even after multiple delays.

 

[DieH@rd]

This is not getting Project Morpheus support, quite clearly.

Why? In VR mode visuals will be downgraded, that's for sure. And they can always reduce number of cars.

In PC version, standing starts with a lot of cars and rain also brings down framerate hard. But as soon as the race is started, FPS goes up.

 

[biglittleps]

Those are some terrible framedrops, especially for the Xbox One which is already 900p.

Clear weather races seem smooth though.

May be they should have gone 720p for Xbox because Frame rate drops are worse 20+ where PS4 has better around 40 avg eve in worse case.

 

[Seanspeed]

With the option there it is up to the player to decide. They might be happy to live with the drops at the start of a race to enable a 44 car grid. Also remember this is a worst case scenario with 44 cars in the rain while starting at the back in chase cam.

Not to say it is acceptable but this is a balancing act between limiting options to make sure the worst case scenario hits your FPS target at all times and giving the player options that will work in a lot of cases but in the most extreme cases might underperform.

As you already said you will not get it on the consoles but for me, who likely will, I can just avoid the settings that drop it miles below 60 while having the options to increase it if I feel like I want to even though it will reduce performance.

You can avoid it, because you know what causes it ahead of time. What about all the other people who don't read DF articles? That are just looking for a racing game that is promising huge grids and night and weather and everything? Expectations will be that this game runs fine, but then they discover that if they want all these promised features, the game runs sub optimally at best, catastrophic at worst.

It just seems like they refuse to compromise their vision for a feature list, even if it comes at the expense of the actual gameplay, and for a racing sim, that is never going to be a philosophy I can get behind.

 

[_machine]

Should be mentioned that it was not the gold build tested there, but an older one according to the development director at SMS.

 

[mrklaw]

Glad to see GAF at its level-headed best in another Digital Foundry thread. Game drops to 30 on the starting grid in what is literally the most taxing possible configuration of track selection, opponent number, weather and camera view, something you're never going to see unless you specifically seek it out by tweaking the game's extensive settings, and people decide it obviously needs another delay, pre-orders are cancelled, ten-foot poles readied. Business as usual, then.

..on a game which the developers have gone to pains to constantly point out is 60fps no compromises. I think it is fair enough to be disappointed at the framerate halving. And rain/large grids are two big selling points - are we not supposed to use them?

 

[Risk Breaker]

I suspect it will have a noticeable though minor impact. Especially as one of the options is the rain effects on the screen and lens flare. FOV may also make a difference in some circumstances.

FoV will make a difference, but I consider that a gameplay option

 

[d9b]

900p not a big deal, most people can't see difference anyway.... Oh, snap!

"...but now we see just an internal 1600x900 frame-buffer in effect on Xbox One - as confirmed by the developer earlier this week.

Image quality does suffer in this case, and its post-process anti-aliasing method (which falls close to the PC's higher FXAA settings) struggles to cover all its rough spots.

A motion blur effect helps disguise the upscale to 1080p to an extent in motion, but pixel-crawl remains noticeable across chrome highlights on cars, and foliage elements especially."

 

[Theorry]

Should be mentioned that it was not the gold build tested there, but an older one according to the development director at SMS.

Like the article says.

 

[Seanspeed]

Why? In VR mode visuals will be downgraded, that's for sure. And they can always reduce number of cars.

In PC version, standing starts with a lot of cars and rain also brings down framerate hard. But as soon as the race is started, FPS goes up.

They're gonna have to downgrade visuals, limit it to dry weather and reduce the number of cars dramatically as it needs to *hold* 60fps at all times, even during starts.

It might still be possible, but it will definitely have to be a limited mode.

 

[Nyx]

..on a game which the developers have gone to pains to constantly point out is 60fps no compromises. I think it is fair enough to be disappointed at the framerate halving. And rain/large grids are two big selling points - are we not supposed to use them?

Exactly.

 

[_machine]

Like the article says.

Yup, just wanted to mention it since it seems like people weren't reading the whole article or that part. At least on my part on PC I've seen some performance improvements that should be there in the console versions too.

 

[chadskin]

Who was the noob at the steering wheel there, DF?

 

[biglittleps]

PS4 maintaining better fps with higher resolution is relatively impressive

I think they took PS4 as lead in this game instead of XB1 like most of the developers who did, so we were unable to see big performance out of PS4 using its advantages (Look at PS4 exclusives Graphics to show what its capable of). Hope this continues so PS4 hardware gets used by proper optimizations to its maximum instead of doing parity with XB1 version.

 

[danowat]

The game's frame-rate is also a sticking point. Project Cars targets an ambitious 60fps on each platform, but the sheer breadth of options gives players the power to determine whether it hits this mark, or drops closer to 30fps.

So, with that, I am calling BS on all the comments in the settings thread saying the visual options were just window dressing, and wouldn't affect frame rate.

 

[arhra]

I think this guy has more than just framerate issues to worry about.

 

[Bgamer90]

Man. This doesn't sound good at all. I would rather have locked 30 FPS than to have constant framerate issues in a racing game that can reach 60 FPS.

 

[Chobel]

And the AFgate continues...

Does PS4 version use a better AA solution? It don't think the resolution is solely responsible for XB1 version looking jaggier.

 

[NumberThree]

I'm not referring to the gameplay options that some are discussing here. I'm referring to this in the OP:

I wasn't very active when the other thread was doing the rounds, so reading this made me want to comment on the matter.

But that part in the OP is referring to gameplay options. The rest of the paragraph provides the context:

For example, our first race is on the Dubai Autodrome International circuit, a manic 35-car race with light clouds overhead, camera set to interior cockpit view and no damage physics enabled. Even with this number of AI racers, the game sticks to a 60fps line throughout, and only drops for one stretch on the circuit (to 50fps on Xbox One, and 55fps on PS4).

 

[Chabbles]

The framerate in that last race is beyond terrible, maybe they should lower the number of cars or something on console... i wonder if turning off/down all the visual settings the console versions will be getting will make even a slight difference to performance, i really hope not. I dont want to feel forced to tone down the visuals at all.