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[RK9039]

Have some of you lost your effing minds!? I am at a loss for words. The fuck is going on here? This is Shenmue 3 for Christ's sake.

Who cares how it got funded. I am getting my dream game after all these years. Stop fucking destroying the hype and good will. I can just see this mothballing and gaming websites reporting it spreading like misinformation fire storm. Please don't anyone pull your pledges. We need more backers to give this game the maximum funds possible.

Why would you hate this? Why do you want to take away my perfect game from me and other fans after the hell we have been through to finally get this to happen?

I am shaking in anger and tears are streaming down my face.I have lost all hope at some modern gamers today.

I wasn't planning on pledging but after reading this I think I have to now.

 

[Wavebossa]

I own one already, this is not about the exclusivity in itself, that's pretty common in the industry, what bothers me is (partially or whatever you want to call it) funding one with people's money.

What if those people give their money willingly to a project that they willingly support?

We gotta stop telling other people what to do with their hard earned money. Vote with your wallets, not with everyone elses.

 

[Salsa]

I'll only speak for myself, but if (A huge IF) this thread somehow forces Suzuki-san/Sony to cancel Shenmune 3, then I don't think most people who were looking forward for it will ever forgive GAF

lol dude

it's a message forum discussing opinions

this is not a twitter campaign and a vast majority here (including me) are happy we're getting Shenmue III

just willing to talk about the details a bit more


I just think that whole "OH MY BRETHEN ITS HERE LETS ALL REJOICEE BROTHERSSS" attitude is shit for the ultimate goal of this place since it basically suggest we're here to just hype each other off rather than idk, talk

it's hella fun to all yell on a thread when something amazing gets announced, but close threads discussing the details of it and sharing different opinions the day after is a thing now?

 

[And_Gignac]

LOLOL...you are being obtuse on purpose right?
Are you going to complain next about how corporation putting out CE for $200 and gamers are playing more money for some crappy DLC/Beta/statue that only cost the corporation $10?

Some people have a large disposable income. Some people care about the other rewards. Some people just want their dream to come true.
They could have pledged 39 and will be locked in for the game...These people can all read, but they still pledged more on the average of 85/person.
Why are you so bitter that people can drop so much money on a faux KS?
Why the hatred for corporation?
They are people too btw.

I am just argumenting why I find this distasteful and not so ethical and that it kind of shows how some corporations can get an excuse for their behavior if there's an emotional attachment towards that corporation or product.

And mess at "corporations are people too". That's so neoliberal.

Anyway, at least the game is being made. There were better ways to do it without all this entanglement.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Have some of you lost your effing minds!? I am at a loss for words. The fuck is going on here? This is Shenmue 3 for Christ's sake.

Who cares how it got funded. I am getting my dream game after all these years. Stop fucking destroying the hype and good will. I can just see this mothballing and gaming websites reporting it spreading like misinformation fire storm. Please don't anyone pull your pledges. We need more backers to give this game the maximum funds possible.

Why would you hate this? Why do you want to take away my perfect game from me and other fans after the hell we have been through to finally get this to happen?

I am shaking in anger and tears are streaming down my face.I have lost all hope at some modern gamers today.

I understand your feelings, I had lost complete hope over a Shenmue 3 a long time ago to the point I wanted at least a comic book or novel to at least close the story.

In the end, Shenmue 3 is happening, you really can't kill my high right now. Remember and realize what's most important right now....yes, Shenmue 3 is a real and wonderful thing.

 

[Krejlooc]

Kickstart (verb): provide the initial impetus to.
"if the project isn't kick-started soon, it's going to be dropped altogether"

This is literally what they did. They Kickstarted the project. The anger in this thread is largely due to people not understanding the purpose of Kickstarter at all.

There is an inclination of some posters to try and dictate to others what imagined, self-defined purpose certain services have, and like hell are you going to go outside their parameters.

For example - Kickstarter is somehow only for small indies, and it can only be used if you have no funding anywhere else, and it has to be for special snowflake games, and only when your back is up against the wall, and only for the bare minimum you need.

Because they decided that's what kickstarter is, apparently.

 

[nampad]

This game's announcement has been really entertaining so far

 

[Jonnax]

I'll only speak for myself, but if (A huge IF) this thread somehow forces Suzuki-san/Sony to cancel Shenmune 3, then I don't think most people who were looking forward for it will ever forgive GAF

Lol if that happened I'm sure someone would kidnap the gaf server and bury it.

 

[Jomjom]

Shenmue: the object of great passion, but also of great salt.

Sheesh people it's not even exclusive to PS4, it's on PC too. If you don't want a PS4 that's fine, but if you can't even muster up a PC or PS4 to play Shenmue 3, then I'm going to venture out and say that you probably weren't really going to play it anyway.

 

[Jinfash]

But it's not a fact.

You could have lead with that instead of dropping "fucking dumb" every other word.

 

[Boke1879]

First off this isn't even Sony's kickstarter. They are helping to fund it and it's going to be PS4 and PC. Those are the platforms stated.

If anyone else donated thinking it would come to anything else that is an assumption they made and only they should be held accountable for it.

That being said why should this be taken down? I just paid $29 bucks for a digital version of the game. I win in this situation. Their are rewards for people who back more and stretch goals.

This shouldn't be taken down because you don't agree with it. Just don't pledge your money. Simple.

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

After all the cerny-yu suzuki photos etc... I don't think is a strange partnership or something to be mad about.

I think that the #buildingthelist and #saveshenmue helped a lot.

 

[jacobeid]

I'm trying to find a way to email Sony Playstation, but all I'm able to find is the complaint submission. I'm trying to suggest a kickstarter for Legend of Dragoon 2, damn it.

Twitter is probably a more viable option to be quite honest with you.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Why does it matter?

I'll tell you why it matters.

People defended KS in the start because it put the power back in the Devs hands, not investors hands or publisher hands.

I remember all the talk back in the day about how this approach for games meant we'd get the true visions of the devs, not the market research driven approach a publisher would take.

That's all gone with shit like this. If in fact the KS is 1/10th the budget, who has final say on things? You don't know. Maybe it's Sony, maybe it's Yu who is given autonomy to use Sony's money how he see's fit.

KS used this way is pretty much a whale fishing excursion. Currently the Avg is $78.

Yes, people get something for that money. Yet the whole idea that you're funding something that wasn't getting funded is out the window.

Just call it a fucking pre-order then if that's what it is. That's mainly what KS has become.

It is directly because of consumers that this game is being made. If it didn't reach the goal Sony would've not partnered. It lets the consumers vote directly on what gets published. It's like right in front of your face.

 

[Mendax]

This game's announcement has been really entertaining so far

did you even pledge, bro

 

[pastrami]

You are assuming that Sony was going to fund this game from the start if it met the $2 million dollar goal.

There is nothing on the Kickstarter page that says it. We didn't know about this partnership until Suzuki said it on the stream.

So I stand by my claim that Sony intentionally deceived fans that Shenmue 3 needed real backers to fund the game.

Sony didn't need need real backers. Ys Net did. That's why they made a kickstarter campaign. Why don't people understand that this is Ys Net's kickstarter and not Sony's?

 

[Wagram]

I'm a pessimistic person, and I always have been, but thank god i'm not like this. Jesus, fourteen years of bitching just to bitch some more.

 

[raphier]

I don't think Sony would possibly fuck this up. The backlash would be insane

Sony has no obligation to the kickstarter, its not their pledge, remember? Their support comes as secondary, but their investors reap the rewards and publishing fees.

 

[afternoon delight]

I wasn't planning on pledging but after reading this I think I have to now.

Well, Shenmue 3 is having a 50% off sale right now.

mah gawd

 

[SparkTR]

Eh, I wouldn't be so sure, what with MS trying to prove they like PC gaming again.

Not games like this, Microsoft doesn't seem to acknowledge there's PC audience for games outside of multiplayer and RTS games (outside of some indie-like stuff like Ori). The minute there's a bigger budget singleplayer aspect Microsoft is silent as mouse.

 

[Mendax]

Well, Shenmue 3 is having a 50% off sale right now.

mah gawd

too soon

 

[4Tran]

I this is so dumb. A niche IP that has been dormant for 14 years?

How much money do you think Andrew House and Kaz Hirai would be willing to spend? 10¢ if they had any business sense.

Who is getting angry about this? Do they want a Shenmue game made for $2mil just as long as it's pure?

It's because Kickstarter functions differently than those unfamiliar with it thinks it does. There's no need to get upset over it; we just have to explain how it works, and how the Shenmue campaign fits in.

 

[Wavebossa]

I am just argumenting why I find this distasteful and not so ethical and that it kind of shows how some corporations can get an excuse for their behavior if there's an emotional attachment towards that corporation or product.

And mess at "corporations are people too". That's so neoliberal.

Anyway, at least the game is being made. There were better ways to do it without all this entanglement.

People used the money that they earned and put to a project that they wanted to fund. If this is distasteful to you, the problem is with you, not the process.

 

[test_account]

if the end all is "we just get more games" and this is handled correctly / one of a kind-ish type thing then hooray, but these deals are technically invisible to us till they happen or they don't. there's questions to be raised still. what's the limit, what does the rampant success mean, will this lead to kind of a nostalgia banking, will this make big triple AAA things that arent HUGE or sequels to smash hits even less of a thing unless they go through kickstarter, etc

again, MY main thing, which is not the same complaint as other people have here, is specifically how this went down, in this particular case, and Sony's lack of a bit more transparency.

there's an argument to be made of "we wouldnt get these games otherwise" and I agree with that and that's why I like Kickstarter, so im not the one to be throwing that defense at. I just think this particular event is kind of a big thing to say "hey look at this this can happen we did this" and I don't like how Sony handled it, regardless of we getting the game = awesome.

Regarding deals, thats the case with standard game developement too though, if i understand you correctly. Many projects get started on, then canceled, without we knowing anything about it. I'm also sure that there have been, and will be, negotiation regarding game projects that never gets started due to disagreements, which is also something we wont know anything about.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems to me that you wanted more openess regarding the process. That is fair enough i think. It doesnt seem that you're really worried about game projects themself being affected in a meaningful way. Kickstarter have existed for many years, and while Shenmue 3 looks to be really successful through Kickstarter, it might end up being a "small potato" compared to the juggernaut that is Star Citizen, which raised nearly 40 million dollars (if im not mistaken) through crowd funding (much of that amount was outside of Kickstarter). Despite such a huge success, we havnt really seen bigger publishers starting using Kickstarter. As for the situation right now, personally i dont think Shenmue 3 will really change this.

 

[pastrami]

You could have went with that without dropping "fucking dumb" every other word.

Sorry, that tirade wasn't aimed at you.

 

[Wildarmsjecht]

There's a lot of crazy going on in this thread!


But I'm hyped for Shenmue tho!

 

[TrebuchetGames]

I think this is awesome, if Sony is willing to drop in a big bag of money after seeing interest is real, they should totally do that. This E3 had been like Christmas and my birthday all rolled up together. Even though I'm not heavily invested in Shenmue, I still went in at the $29 level because it just feels like something I want to be a part of.

After reading all the negativity in this thread, I may bump it up to $60.

I am going to back it just because the guy has tried for 14 years to get the game made and has never given up, I'm going to back the dream, even though I've never played the games..

Gamers have been moaning about wanting this game for so long and now because there is a rumour that Sony *might* be giving them some financial help, it's terrible. Shame on those gamers imho... but the great thing about KS is that they don't have to back it and they can just watch from the sidelines.

 

[Corto]

I own one already, this is not about the exclusivity in itself, that's pretty common in the industry, what bothers me is (partially or whatever you want to call it) funding one with people's money.

You know who did that too? Mojang, and now they are living large. And any early access business model is using people's money to fund the game. That system is already in place, it's mature and it will be more and more used going forward as it diminishes risk.

 

[Slyfer]

So much impotent rage... and yet the money counter on the Kickstarter just keeps on ticking up.

All is well with the world.

Wanna play a game of lucky hit?

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Pre-order Shenmue III now for PS4 and PC for 50% off!

 

[werks]

I'm not sure I understand the gripping at all.

1. You still get the game for $30
2. You get a game that it going to get a proper budget and not just whatever kickstarter raises.


The only way you should have an issue with this is if you were expecting a XB1 version, which they didn't promise.

 

[OmegaDL50]

I don't have time to sift through the whole thread, but were people this upset about Bloodstaind? I funded it knowing there was an outside party helping fund and develop the project, don't remember a big fuss.

Only a few detractors made a issue with this but they didn't bother to watch the initial pitch video that stated a publisher was on board if only the minimum was made.

Yes is a issue of perception and people making assumptions.

 

[Skux]

"Gauge interest" is a convenient excuse. This game was always going to be funded at any goal (within reason). Sony knows how a game like this would be received after seeing overnight successes like Yooka-Laylee.

And know they have the goodwill of the gaming public and have broken records for free publicity. This is a "marketing Kickstarter" if ever I've seen one.

The only thing I want now is a PS4 physical backer option.

 

[Donthizz#]

Same thing is going to happen with NMS.(PS4/PC)

 

[Kaizu]

This does not sit well with me because you are asking your customers to help you fund part of your development cost when they have zero idea on how the final product will turn out. There are no working prototype and nothing to show for so there's a chance that it will turn out shitty. Not saying it will but the chance exists. So instead of company bearing the risk, they are asking the consumer to give it a shot in the dark and let them burden it.

This is just my personal gut feeling and I really have no idea if this is a good approach or not because we are covering new ground here. The most similar thing akin to this is pre order and early access alpha but at least there are enough tangible materials for you to reference with those cases. I guess Yu Suzuki and the Shenmue brand name is enough for people but I can see how this might not be the case for many others.

 

[Zombegoast]

You know what would have been a better alternative than this? People defending this practice and it doesn't affect development at all and help fund new ones while making people happy?

Spoiler

Shenmue HD collection

 

[Maniac]

why should the thread be closed

I guess im going outside the point here but im legit surprised at some of the reactions from old members. this is a discussion forum, you're not supposed to shift it to your liking or to feed whatever's convenient to you or how you wanna feel. it's a fucking place on the internet with many people in it, you don't own it and no one should be here expecting circlejerk party

that's a ridiculous attitude to have with the internet in general

people complaining about "outrage culture" by saying "shut this down lets all be hyped and don't overthink anything" is the 'outrage culture' part of this. shit's ironic

I concur entirely. It's ridiculous. It's as dumb and nonsensical as a ferret with sunglasses and a top hat riding on a giant sea turtle in gilded armour; shit makes no sense.

 

[Pikma]

What if those people give their money willingly to a project that they willingly support?

We gotta stop telling other people what to do with their hard earned money. Vote with your wallets, not with everyone elses.

I'm not telling people what to do, I'm not yelling at them, I don't care about what people do, I'm only talking about Sony's part in this, which is the only thing that bothers me. And no, this is not about console A or console B or console C, or PC either.

 

[Kerotan Frog]

This is good.
Sony going out there and taking care of business. And it should also alleviate fears that tend to hang over KS projects. "Even if it's funded it may not come out.."

This is definitely coming now. Rest assured.

Quick, everyone bombard tweet Sony's 3rd party relations for the reannouncement of Megaman Legends 3! This will be the last game I beg anyone for. After the epic magical bomb dropping we saw last night, they're the only ones who can help us.

 

[Jonnax]

It's because Kickstarter functions differently than those unfamiliar with it thinks it does. There's no need to get upset over it; we just have to explain how it works, and how the Shenmue campaign fits in.

I guess so. I'm sure there were people calling the pebble 2 shady.

 

[Kieli]

Meh, doesn't bother me.

Most of the people complaining probably don't even care or know what Shenmue is.

Kinda like the complaints with The Last Guardian (people don't play Team Ico games for their graphics, lol).

 

[Uno Venova]

With how many times I've seen the words 'Sony is behind it' being said, I don't think that many people actually read the whole OP. Or just projecting.

 

[On Demand]

How ironic would it be if somehow NEOGAF starts the chain of events leading to the cancellation of the game lol.

I will fucking nuke Evilore's servers.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Why do console exclusive exist? Is there any advantage in having them as hardware developers? Yes, they do and Sony is taking advantage of the fans' money to have a console exclusive while completely removing the risks that usually come with said kind of products. That's my argument, PC has nothing to do with it, not sure why you mentioned it.

How are they removing the risk when they're the ones funding the majority of the game? Taking advantage by seeing if people actually want this game? Why shouldn't it be console exclusive? I don't even know what your point is.

I mentioned it because you're complaining about exclusivity.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Why do console exclusive exist? Is there any advantage in having them as hardware developers? Yes, they do and Sony is taking advantage of the fans' money to have a console exclusive while completely removing the risks that usually come with said kind of products. That's my argument, PC has nothing to do with it, not sure why you mentioned it.

People choose to donate knowing beforehand what the platforms are. No one is getting taken advantage of. Anyone who wants to pull the pledge can. Come on now

 

[Rebel Leader]

I will fucking nuke Evilore's servers.

RISE UP BROTHERS!

 

[Tenzan]

I'm not telling people what to do, I'm not yelling at them, I don't care about what people do, I'm only talking about Sony's part in this, which is the only thing that bothers me. And no, this is not about console A or console B or console C, or PC either.

What do you expect? SEGA had no interest in a Shenmue 3

 

[renjworks]

I really hate this "use a kickstarter to gauge interest" approach that's been going around.

Can we all just be happy and contented that it's now happening?

 

[Pikma]

You know who did that too? Mojang, and now they are living large. And any early access business model is using people's money to fund the game. That system is already in place, it's mature and it will be more and more used going forward as it diminishes risk.

Yeah, I know, does that make it less shittier? Nope.

 

[Captain_Cold]

As someone who bought the original on Dreamcast day 1, Imported Shenmue II day 1 and double dipped on Xbox day 1, I've been dreaming of this announcement for the last 14 years. The franchise was dead and mostly forgotten with only a few diehards perpetuating the demand for a third installment. Still, there was an opportunity for some publisher or platform holder to gain the undying loyalty of a core subset. The folks like Gio and Boyes at Sony knew this and have obviously been working with Yu find a way for him to complete his story.

The kickstarter approach accomplishes three things that outright funding the project would not:

1. It gauges the current interest and willingness to purchase this expensive yet very niche IP, in the process offsetting a portion of development costs. This is a passion project with very low profitability likelihood, and a fairly unique scenario, so asking fans to contribute to the project proportionate to their desire to see it exist is not completely uncalled for. We won't be seeing this approach for Assassin's Creed, or COD, or other high end IPs, and it's not even setting a precedent since Bloodstained and many other niche games already used crowdfunding to prove interest for investors.

2. It allows fans to more directly engage with the creative team, as well as get exclusive memorabilia like signed artbooks, jackets, and scripts. In this sense it mostly serves as a very early pre-order system with similar bonuses.

3. Most importantly, by presenting it on a very public stage with Yu on hand, it guaranteed that the Kickstarter would be funded, credible, and attention garnering. How do you drum up interest in a dead franchise? You create headlines like:
"Sony reaches $2m Shenmue III game target on Kickstarter within hours"
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33144515
"Shenmue 3 becomes fasted game to raise $1 million on Kickstarter"
http://www.theweek.co.uk/64011/shenmue-3-becomes-fastest-game-to-raise-1m-on-kickstarter

This prompts the uninitiated to look into Shenmue and learn more about it, seeing what the fuss is all about and helping generate buzz and excitement. Imagine if Sony had decided to outright fund the game, or KS didn't exist. Then instead of those headlines we'd be reading stuff like (hypothetically): "Sony inexplicably funding the third installment in a franchise no one wants" and the naysayers would latch onto that notion without the KS- provided proof of demand to back it up.

Without the Kickstarter proposition this game would still be dead, so for that I'm thankful.