It's hardly a "secret ninja game" when the price of entry is a fucking game pitch and a signature, which the developer should have been prepared to provide in the first place.
I mean, FFS, at this point, I'm convinced that if the dev had walked into the meeting covered in feces and Nintendo asked him to reschedule after he'd taken a shower, people would say that Nintendo was being "hostile to 3rd parties, as always, lolNintendo" instead of seeing it as a common fucking sense request.
ps4 kits were out at this time for some indie games. AAA leaks were all over the place. That is the.main difference and the reason why, as stated by this dev directly, nintendo playing the secret ninja game with anyone, indie or not, is.just the same old nintendo, terribile at third party relationship
While I am really skeptical of Nintendo handling this that well, I think that seems a bit unreasonable. Do you know that there aren't any dev kits for some indie games? I think it's a reasonable assumption that their key partners, some of which are indies, do have them already.ps4 kits were out at this time for some indie games. AAA leaks were all over the place. That is the.main difference and the reason why, as stated by this dev directly, nintendo playing the secret ninja game with anyone, indie or not, is.just the same old nintendo, terribile at third party relationship
This isn't gamefaqs.Nintendo has been stuck in 1991 for years.
I wouldn't describe a game that was announced to be coming to the NX live by the creator himself at its reveal conference as "extremely flimsy".
In any case, SquareEnix and Nintendo seem to be getting along better than in recent years, so we will see what will come out of it.
He took back the announcement, and now its not a 100% thing. SE is only close with Nintendo in regards to the 3DS. They have a couple of Crystal Chronicles and Dragon Quest Sword for Wii , but nothing for Wii U. How is that better in recent years?
That doesnt change the point that their support has declined significantly from Wii to Wii U.
I'd throw Deus Ex: Human Revolution Director's Cut in there as well but it doesn't change the fact that their support is still abysmal.
Didnt some indie dev on facebook already say that he had an NX dev kit and a game developed for it
Nintendo should be groveling at every fucking developer's feet at this point.
I wasn't on Neogaf nor did i even know it existed back during the Project Cafe/Before Wii U launch days, were things always this negative
While I am really skeptical of Nintendo handling this that well, I think that seems a bit unreasonable. Do you know that there aren't any dev kits for some indie games? I think it's a reasonable assumption that their key partners, some of which are indies, do have them already.
This isn't gamefaqs.
He took back the announcement lol? More like he wasn't posed to be speaking about it at the moment.He took back the announcement, and now its not a 100% thing. SE is only close with Nintendo in regards to the 3DS. They have a couple of Crystal Chronicles and Dragon Quest Sword for Wii , but nothing for Wii U. How is that better in recent years?
An why would they suddenly backpedal on DQXI when Nintendo is the only other viable platform holder in Japan as well as the only platform holder likely to release another handheld (Let alone a decently successful one) in Japan with games that are targeted at the Japanese audience. Considering they're going all in on trying to make the PS4 a success in Japan, not supporting Nintendo's next platform (whatever it is) is hardly in their best interests with rising dev costs. It's not like the Xbox One is lighting up Japan and their Japanese arm has found decent to great success on Nintendo platforms.
If Nintendo makes the job of porting easy enough for them (Unlike with the WiiU) as it appears they are doing then i see no reason for them to suddenly backpedal from Nintendo's platforms with DQXI. Also your point was that they had nothing on the WiiU which was incorrect, they had the next installment of one of their bigger (In Japan at least) JRPGs on Nintendo's least successful console ever. The potential shared environment idea of the NX alone guarantees that the userbase of Nintendo's next consoles will be larger than the WiiU. If they are willing to test the waters on the WiiU of all systems then there's no reason why they wouldn't on the NX.
I wasn't on Neogaf nor did i even know it existed back during the Project Cafe/Before Wii U launch days, were things always this negative
You are arguing with semantic here. Trace back few more posts and you'll see that I am arguing the bigger point about assuming that SE is already on board (just because of 1 unconfirmed multiplatform title) and is close with Nintendo, when in actual fact, their supports has actually declined drastically from the Wii to Wii U.
SE isn't going to just limit their sight in Japan. They'll be seeing worldwide. There are more Wii U users than PS4 in Japan, but take a look at SE's support for both of them so far.
Like i said in another thread, the Wii U speculation->reality(even worsened by almost 5 years of extreme negativity, trolling and flaming on the internet by a huge part of the gaming community) burned people so much that now many of them aren't willing to even consider the possibility that this time many things (not necessarily everything) will be different. "The NX will be a minor jump in power from the Wii U, the NX will have 0 third party support, the NX will sell worse than the Wii U, the new gimmick will be laughable like the gamepad", etc etc.As Oddduck mentioned, the Wii U really seem to burn people as far as its third party support. Leading up to Nintendo consoles, or really any console for that matter, you'll hear a lot of positives from third party developers. But praising something and actually supporting it are two very different things. Nintendo simply aren't in a position anymore for many people to buy the idea that things are suddenly going to change in a dramatic way in terms of their third party support. The proof that things have changed won't be known for years.
For example, Orbis and Durango were known way ahead by developers than NX (I mean if it launchs this year and if the information about EA or others having kits since only a year before launch). And more important, the specs were discussed with some developers when the machine wasn't finished.
For example, Orbis and Durango were known way ahead by developers than NX (I mean if it launchs this year and if the information about EA or others having kits since only a year before launch). And more important, the specs were discussed with some developers when the machine wasn't finished.
Yeah Harker said that so maybe Iherre's contacts were not in the loop from the beginning. But if SDK's have been available since the Fall of 2015 and dev kits are out to close partners maybe there actually is some decent support coming.Like i said in another thread, the Wii U speculation->reality(even worsened by almost 5 years of extreme negativity, trolling and flaming on the internet by a huge part of the gaming community) burned people so much that now many of them aren't willing to even consider the possibility that this time many things (not necessarily everything) will be different. "The NX will be a minor jump in power from the Wii U, the NX will have 0 third party support, the NX will sell worse than the Wii U, the new gimmick will be laughable like the gamepad", etc etc.
I mean, all these things could end up being true, but why don't we at least wait for the reveal of the machine before screaming doomed again?
John Harker said they discussed the NX with third party publishers before E3 2015 (and they got a positive response as well iirc), let's not act like every single developer on the planet has no clue about what the NX is only because a couple of indie don't have devkits yet.
An worldwide where exactly do you think DQ sells best, it sure doesn't look like it will be the XBO going by past sales of JRPGs on the Microsoft systems vs Nintendo systems. If they were looking worldwide as you say then the XBO would have a version of DQXI announced.... it doesn't yet the NX does.
Clearly Square at least in regards to DQ is looking at what is best for the IP in Japan first and foremost. An in Japan the XBO is for all intents and purposes dead. It speaks volumes that a technically unannouced platform is name dropped as being supported while a platform that's been around for multiple years isn't (As far as we know) getting a port of DQXI.
Like i said before it is in Square's best interests for a succesful NX (At least in Japan anyway) as that means a larger userbase for them to sell their Japanese focused games on after all the 3DS won't be around forever, an if the NX environment is easy to port to (Which it appears to be based on insider reports on GAF itself) then they have no reason to not port their PS4 efforts to the system thereby pushing the install base forward. There is no scenario where the NX userbase ends up smaller than the WiiU userbase purely because of the NX handheld existing.
If we are talking about worldwide, its only PS4 and 3DS for now. That's precisely where DQ XI will be released on.
NX failing isn't going to impact SE much, because they already have the PS4. If they want more sales for subsequent DQ, they can have a XBox English version or even the PC too. They will at best, release it on the NX handheld, but its delusional to think they are already on board for the NX home console.
But if our assumptions about what NX is are correct, then supporting just the NX handheld doesn't make any sense, as they could release the same games with improved assets and nicer effects on the home console for minimal expense and get a guaranteed jump in sales.
What I think is delusional is to ignore the fact that DQX and DQXI's producer very explicitly said that the games are being brought to NX. The "retraction" from SE's PR was little more than them trying to cover their asses from the fact that Saito wasn't supposed to talk about NX versions yet.
If we are talking about worldwide, its only PS4 and 3DS for now. That's precisely where DQ XI will be released on.
NX failing isn't going to impact SE much, because they already have the PS4. If they want more sales for subsequent DQ, they can have a XBox English version or even the PC too. They will at best, release it on the NX handheld, but its delusional to think they are already on board for the NX home console.
S-E was the first third party to mention the NX to the media, and announcing two main DQ games, no less. Before even Nintendo itself announcing any game of the system itself. When was the last time this happened?
I hope the unique thing isn't the free form display.
I disagree. PS4 taught us that a perfect storm of marketing and hype sells consoles. The PS4 was marketed perfectly before and after the console launched.
Before launch, Sony made gamers believe that their console was an absolute powerhouse when, in actuality, it's really not. They also took advantage of Microsoft's failings perfectly.
After launch the console was sold out everywhere. This made the console look like a highly sought after device, further increasing hype. Sony also employed the 'For The Players' moniker, cementing themselves as the go-to console in gamers minds.
Some would say it was pure genius. Not really. They just did what was, at least in many gamers minds, the common sense thing to do.
Shahid Ahamad shares his thoughts on Moon Studio's comment.
Shahid Ahamad shares his thoughts on Moon Studio's comment.
Being the former indie guy for PS, I'd think he'd know what he's talking about here
Nintendo is doing nothing good with all this secrecy. And if and when they decide to unveil it, it doesn't live up to expectations, it will be another Wii U situation where you will only buy it for select Nintendo Japanese made games.
Unlike other platforms, Nintendo thinks they're a unique concept in the hardware and that getting leaked out and copied so early probably wouldn't be good since they're concerned about the competition stealing this idea. Whether it's good or not doesn't matter too much on that point, just that they want to keep it secretive.Man, a lot of news sites picked up on my posts on the previous pages and took what I was saying a bit out of context...
First off, I love Nintendo. If you look at the games we're making, it's pretty clear that Nintendo is and has always been one of our inspirations. Love em, always have. I didn't want to shit on Nintendo or come off as super aggressive, I think a thriving Nintendo is good for the industry.
All I was trying to say was that in an ideal world, devkits shouldn't be hard to come by for developers - It's not a good situation when your system is probably only 8-9 months away from launch and the developers that would want to support you have a hard time getting a devkit. Wouldn't we all want to see great titles during the launch-window? Bigger publishers often can't afford to put tons of resources into supporting a platform that has an install base of 0, but it might make sense for smaller developers to take that gamble. That's where Nintendo could make some smart moves right now.
Some smaller developers actually reached out to me after the news sites picked up on the story to tell me they're in the same boat, so I think I struck a nerve with a lot of people. There are some people in the press and on twitter who ripped me to pieces, cause I often post here in a very open and honest way and just say things the way they pop in my head, but obviously I didn't want to offend anyone. I like seeing developers out there, openly posting about the stuff they go through - and I do my part. I like having a voice here and sharing that with the fellow community. I try to be very open about what we're doing and what we're going through. And no, I never ever in my life breached an NDA and concluding that I would based on me voicing some concerns about Nintendo probably being a little late to the party is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
My thinking is that if there's a good developer out there that creates high-quality games and that wants to support your system, have a friendly conversation with em and allow them to support you. The worst possible case would be that they make a game that doesn't help you out. In the best possible case you have the opportunity to build a win/win partnership that helps everyone and makes the gamers happy. I'd always choose the latter.
Still love Nintendo, even if I don't understand some of their moves
Poor dude, he can't vent on neogaf without the press making a big deal out of it
Poor dude, he can't vent on neogaf without the press making a big deal out of it
If Ori does come out on NX or the U I will buy it eagerly. the game looks great
This isn't gamefaqs.
could have fooled me
Isn't an SDK available that would help speed up development until the dev kit arrives?Man, a lot of news sites picked up on my posts on the previous pages and took what I was saying a bit out of context...
First off, I love Nintendo. If you look at the games we're making, it's pretty clear that Nintendo is and has always been one of our inspirations. Love em, always have. I didn't want to shit on Nintendo or come off as super aggressive, I think a thriving Nintendo is good for the industry.
All I was trying to say was that in an ideal world, devkits shouldn't be hard to come by for developers - It's not a good situation when your system is probably only 8-9 months away from launch and the developers that would want to support you have a hard time getting a devkit. Wouldn't we all want to see great titles during the launch-window? Bigger publishers often can't afford to put tons of resources into supporting a platform that has an install base of 0, but it might make sense for smaller developers to take that gamble. That's where Nintendo could make some smart moves right now.
Some smaller developers actually reached out to me after the news sites picked up on the story to tell me they're in the same boat, so I think I struck a nerve with a lot of people. There are some people in the press and on twitter who ripped me to pieces, cause I often post here in a very open and honest way and just say things the way they pop in my head, but obviously I didn't want to offend anyone. I like seeing developers out there, openly posting about the stuff they go through - and I do my part. I like having a voice here and sharing that with the fellow community. I try to be very open about what we're doing and what we're going through. And no, I never ever in my life breached an NDA and concluding that I would based on me voicing some concerns about Nintendo probably being a little late to the party is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
My thinking is that if there's a good developer out there that creates high-quality games and that wants to support your system, have a friendly conversation with em and allow them to support you. The worst possible case would be that they make a game that doesn't help you out. In the best possible case you have the opportunity to build a win/win partnership that helps everyone and makes the gamers happy. I'd always choose the latter.
Still love Nintendo, even if I don't understand some of their moves
See, I'd just love to talk to the guy, since I don't think he read any more of my postings other than the one that all the news sites picked up on. I think we're generally in agreement, especially since Sony DID apparently reach out to smaller studios and made a bunch of very smart moves, getting smaller studios signed up and changing their stance on the whole indie support. That result can now be seen, since most indies love the PS4 and see it as a viable platform to ship their titles on. What should be taken from my comments is a simple shout-out to Nintendo in the sense of "Hey Nintendo, supporting smaller devs and indie houses worked brilliantly for Sony - Do likewise!".
Hes not just some random dude, he's a developer, part of the gaming industry and wanting to put a game on a platform. If you want to work with a company and things dont go well I'm sure theres a more profesional way of going about it. He should know that as a developer people are going to react to his post and it'll get out there, hes not just some average joe venting, so you cant be mad when your words are spread across the net, people are thirsty for any NX news out there. You think Nintendo didnt see his rant and weren't happy they weren't quick to give him a devkit? The rules aren't the same as you and I when you are in the industry.
Besides, he makes it seem like Nintendo should be throwing dev kits at every indie developer even though they are trying to keep their concept (good or bad) a secret. I mean they gave him a shot at presenting his game and he said he wanted to see the devkits first, or something right?
Unlike other platforms, Nintendo thinks they're a unique concept in the hardware and that getting leaked out and copied so early probably wouldn't be good since they're concerned about the competition stealing this idea. Whether it's good or not doesn't matter too much on that point, just that they want to keep it secretive.
Nintendo's been pretty good with indies so I wouldn't be too worried about that, they should probably be more worried about getting those that don't play nice with Nintendo hardware.
We also don't know what NX is or which one of its multiple form factors (?) comes out this year so getting told specs probably isn't a great idea as well.
Probably best to wait until it's announced and the hardware is closer to being finalized until they send dev kits out to more people.
Wii U did launch with a nice selection of indie games and while it hasn't gone as well as PS4, it's enjoyed indie support for awhile now and I don't think that'll stop or get worse with the new system.
I don't imagine these comments having spread as much as they have helped you get dev kits quicker.
Edit: and again, Nintendo has been supporting indies of late working with the Undertale devs and Shovel Knight alongside smaller projects like the Steamworld games and fast racing Neo.maybe the MS exclusivity didn't help, dunno
And I'm pretty sure the overwhelming amount of indie support wasn't present on Ps4 day one, that takes some time.
If they didn't want to give you a dev kit after it being formally announced because of some dumb policy then sure, the comments would be more grounded but right now it's supposed to stay secret for a few more months.
But if our assumptions about what NX is are correct, then supporting just the NX handheld doesn't make any sense, as they could release the same games with improved assets and nicer effects on the home console for minimal expense and get a guaranteed jump in sales.
What I think is delusional is to ignore the fact that DQX and DQXI's producer very explicitly said that the games are being brought to NX. The "retraction" from SE's PR was little more than them trying to cover their asses from the fact that Saito wasn't supposed to talk about NX versions yet.
Poor dude, he can't vent on neogaf without the press making a big deal out of it
We have mods here who will shut shit down when need be on most good days, don't recall that at gamefaqs once ever.
And they've been doing that for years. They even started giving away free Unity and Autodesk tools before Sony.What should be taken from my comments is a simple shout-out to Nintendo in the sense of "Hey Nintendo, supporting smaller devs and indie houses worked brilliantly for Sony - Do likewise!".
Nintendo should be groveling at every fucking developer's feet at this point.
This is the height of delusion to think an Xbox release of DQ of all series would sell anywhere near as well as a Nintendo release of a series that Nintendo has been promoting in the West since DQIX. As well as the fact that you're dismissing the words of the creator of the series itself.
In addition to this what kind of logic sees Square support only handheld with DQ when they've supported every Nintendo console (Handheld or console) with DQ since DQIX (DQX on both Wii and WiiU despite the WiiUs sales woes overseas), what kind of logic also allows Square to support the NX but arbitrarily lock DQXI to the handheld, do they suddenly hate money or just enjoy making their work harder for themselves. If you can port to the home console easily (Which it looks like you can) then you port and downgrade for the handheld, as i said before by virtue of the handheld existing the NX will cannot have an install base smaller than the WiiU.
Ika put it best, when was the last time something like this happened from Square for a major entry in any franchise for a Nintendo system?
We've had an outright confirmation by the creator of the series at a Japan wide (At the very least) event of two DQ titles for the system.
We've had an expression of interest to bring FFXIV to the system by Square.
We've had Cloud appear on a Nintendo system in a major way in Smash, something that had you suggested such prior to its release you'd be seeing as living fanboy dreams.