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Doom review codes not getting sent out until launch day?
- Thread starter AHA-Lambda
- Start date
Generic Power Ranger
Member
In my opinion, for the time, they did have horror atmosphere. I thought it was super scary when I played it as a kid.
I agree that guns and level design were weak points, but they nailed the atmosphere... And yeah, it looked amazing too.
I just feel that the new one might be kind of jumping the shark, but will see when I get around to playing it. I'm sure it'll be enjoyable... I just also think it could have benefitted from more of a horror atmosphere that what's been shown.
Psyrgery ES
Member
Just watched the unboxing. Man the Revenant statue is way uglier than the model they used to advertise it.
Thinking about cancelling my preorder and going for a standard edition
Thinking about cancelling my preorder and going for a standard edition
Krappadizzle
Member
1.Ok, you said "down graded", whatever that means. Which I guess you could argue on art preference, but not on any technical level.
2. I agree with this. It definitely had horror elements. Though they were never really "horror" games in the way that Doom 3 was. And I played the shit out of Doom as a 10 y/o. 20 years ago.
Maybe, but I imagine if you were were a kid playing the new Doom game now, you'd think it was filled with horror elements and atmosphere. Just like you did, then.
Doom 1 and 2 never really had a horror aspect. Not like Doom 3. Doom 3 didn't "keep" the horror aspect, it added one.
Edit - I guess it was a different kind of scary. Doom 1 and 2 you're scared of the dark and getting swarmed. Doom 3 you're scared of the dark and getting attacked by one or two difficult to kill enemies. It gave it a different feel along with the slower methodical way you proceeded and made it feel like a different genre.
I considered Doom 64 the true Doom 3 and completely disregarded Doom 3 as a Doom game.
superNESjoe
Member
It wasn't the main draw, but it was there. Going into rooms where there's just a flickering light and you hear invisible Pinkys running around, that's pretty horror-esque.
It's sprinkled throughout, but it isn't the main element for sure.
Also, I've been replaying Doom 1 this past week, and man am I bummed that this isn't a true 100% return to form. I want a labyrinth level Doom game with no RPG elements, an emphasis on positioning and ammo/power up management, keys, and meaningful encounters throughout the map. Doom is not an arena combat game, and while I'm still excited to play what looks like a fun and old school style shooter, I wish it were more like Doom and not Unreal Tournament.
I'm a bit of an original Doom connoisseur
My favourite way to play it is Chocolate Doom. Retains almost everything about the originals including resolution and frame rate.
Krappadizzle
Member
Yeah, I've been playing the shit out of Doom 1&2 this last week. So many awesome mods. And I can't speak more highly of Brutal Doom. It brings a lot of modern conventions(ADS, soft walls/doors, Brutal finishers, grenades) into the game with an insane amount of gore and blood. When you do enough damage to explode an enemy, their guts will literally drip off the ceiling. I actually had issues where I killed so many enemies and the walls and ceilings were painted in so much blood, I couldn't find the switches I'd need to hit to continue on. It's so badass
Bloodporne
Member
Someone should travel back in time and send this post to id some years back.
I'm sorry but I don't see that gameplay video as Doom either. It looks like what I've been expecting this to be and had said before, a serviceable and decent FPS with a Doom license. It looks 'old school' as in generic early 2000s FPS to me and not Doom and that Saturday morning cartoon look really isn't helping this.
There are two tiers of secrets - secrets are shown on the map and "super secrets" are not.
That's what I've picked up from the recent dev interviews anyway.
I grew up on Doom and I think the 2016 version is looking pretty good, not in the must buy camp yet but I'm very interested. They seemed to have captured that feeling of 'dancing' around the enemies and projectiles pretty well.
Not sure about the glory kill mechanic, the animations don't seem long which is good but they may get tiring after several hours. Main concern is the enemy placement, the videos suggest the enemies are seemingly randomly and sporadically placed which would be a shame.
Bloodporne
Member
Brutal Doom: Hell On Earth is fucking amazing. I turn a lot of the new features like finishers grenades, new HUD etc. but man it's insanely good. The level design of Hell On Earth is just great and the weapon feedback and enemy damage can barely be beat. The double shotgun blowing a low level zombie literally to pieces is insane.
There's an instance in level 5 I think where you take an elevator up into a small cramped space and they positioned a shotgun soldier right in your face in that tiny space as soon as the elevator reaches the top. I happened to have the double shotty pulled and the guy exploded all over the tiny room. Also, the barrel placements in Hell On Earth are spot on.
To be honest I'm surprised we're even getting the Doom that we're getting nevermind it unrealistically being like a couple of games over 20 years old, especially with the amount of money behind it. I don't expect it to be like the originals, just in the same way Doom 3 was nothing like them either. However this certainly appeals to me a lot more than Doom 3 ever did and I had a ton of fun with the beta. I'll judge it for what it is rather than what it isn't. Only a few more days to go regardless! (waiting for PC version)
Love for the series sure, but a large wall of mostly incoherent babbling and false assumptions does not make a fantastic post.
The Hell On Earth episode was my least favorite one. The level design was like all the worst parts of 90's design pitfalls. I was stuck in one of the city levels for so long not knowing what to do that I just cheated my way past it.
Kinda funny since the city levels in the original Doom 2 maps were also the worst ones.
Bloodporne
Member
I just got into this via the Starter Pack download two months ago or something, I had totally been out of the mod thing and so on for like ten years. Are there other level packs as comprehensive as Hell On Earth? I mean, it's essentially a new homegrown game.
Can you recommend something? PM me if you can take the time.
EDIT: Just to clarify, when I refer to Hell On Earth I just meant that entire 32 new level (or whatever) campaign that comes with the Starter Pack.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I don't know a huge amount about the Doom series (nor am I a particularly big fan) but this is a really interesting and informative post. Thanks for that.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
As a big fan of the original games, I can see why people might not like some of the changes but at the same time, if they released DOOM exactly like the originals now, at full price, it would get ripped to bits.
All the videos I've seen so far, still seem enough like Doom to me though.
Big guns - Check
Fast paced shooting - Check
Demons from Hell - Check
Maze like levels - Check
Hidden areas / Items - Check
Pretty much everything the originals did is here, it probably won't do everything as good as the original of course (or maybe it will but nostalgia will blind us from it) and they added some new stuff too make it more modern, but they had to, to make it fit in 2016.
ROCK - id - HARD PLACE.
All the videos I've seen so far, still seem enough like Doom to me though.
Big guns - Check
Fast paced shooting - Check
Demons from Hell - Check
Maze like levels - Check
Hidden areas / Items - Check
Pretty much everything the originals did is here, it probably won't do everything as good as the original of course (or maybe it will but nostalgia will blind us from it) and they added some new stuff too make it more modern, but they had to, to make it fit in 2016.
ROCK - id - HARD PLACE.
Agreed, this guy missed lot's of points.
There was arenas on classic DOOM too, and classic mods too.
An example is MAP07 from DOOM2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS4ABSL5MhY
Dictator93
Member
There were indeed arena's in classic doom, but they are definitely not the focus of the gameplay design. So referencing dead simple as it actually was, kind of smudges across its real context. It is a "play on words" in two ways:
1. A play on words in terms of doom's design language. It had you start staring at the exit in an area where you are immediately under threat. It was like no doom level before it.
2. It is in a literal sense "technically dead simple" of a layout, but surviving it was a whole other story.
It was a level that basically was an evolving arena, but it did not form the core of doom level design or anything. It was just 1 level idea of 32 in doom 2.
It's interesting to me how so few people seem to understand the necessity of modernizing this game. It's not that the old Doom games are bad -- they're amazing, historically, legendary pieces of art for that time and place.
But today, when people say they "hold up" by today's standards, I don't think they're being intellectually honest with regard to what today's standards actually are. One of those standards, for example, is that you can aim your gun about more than one axis. We give the older games a pass on this when we revisit them for obvious reasons; but nobody is going back and playing those games and judging them by "today's standards." How could they, without arbitrarily ignoring bits and pieces of the time and place for those previous games?
That said, there are going to be very valid arguments against this game. Some people won't like the flow of the combat arenas. Others won't like the weapons. Some will think it's too fast, and others will think it's too slow. Some will be disgusted by the idea of a "keycard" in a game in 2016. Others will think it bizarre to have upgrade mechanics in a game they strongly believe shouldn't have that. Some will be annoyed it doesn't have ADS (apparently). You cannot make a game like DOOM and expect that you're going to make everyone happy; I just don't see that being a realistic goal with a game that carries that name.
One of the really cool things about Doom is that it clearly means different things to different people. That's actually a cool thing, even though it sets up disappointment when the interpretation of what those things are don't skew to a person's personal interpretation. For the people at id software right now, this game is that interpretation, and I think it's vacuous to suppose that it's not a valid one for a certain set of the population that has had exposure to previous games.
Mark my words, some people are going to hate this game for the same reasons others will love it, and vice-versa. I can't imagine a version of this game that isn't going to be polarizing because of the different experiences people have had over the years playing Doom games. I guess I just think that's okay. I mean, I may absolutely hate this when I get my hands on it, that's a distinct possibility, but it won't be because it's "not like the original Doom." I hope I love it, but I "get" the changes to the formula for a 2016 crowd, even if I don't agree with some of them.
I mean, think back to the Brutal Doom vs. OG Doom debates we had here. Some people think Brutal Doom is great, others think it's a perversion of the original with no redeeming quality. You just can't have a fanbase this opinionated and not upset people when you make decisions that effect the entire game. Hell there's people that love Doom 3 and hate the originals! Doom just doesn't mean one thing to everyone. It's best to just take this and any other Doom games we may see to be a chef's particular take on a classic dish; love it, or hate it, it's a valid expression.
Bloodporne
Member
Why this even needs to be pointed out is baffling. Dead Simple was a cool gimmick level to relieve the pressure and switch things up to keep you on your toes, not the entire game's focus. Nobody has ever argued that there wasn't one single arena in the first two games and that's not the point of that particular discussion at all.
Tomasoares
Member
That's why the original games won't be surpassed by this reboot and why Doom is my #1 favorite FPS. Yet, I expect to have lots of fun regardless.
Who said that the arenas is the main focus of the DOOM 2016? There are arenas like MAP07 from DOOM2, but there is also exploration and collectables.
The MAP07 was super fun, there is no problem to more instances like that scattered in the game.
MAP07 is not the only example we have of arenas in Vanilla DOOM.
Also the arena style gameplay is praised in the DOOM community.
"Legacy of Suffering" featured on the 2009 Cacowards, here there is arena combat between levels.
https://youtu.be/kCeoeJ8tMmw?t=98 (timestamp)
I will take that some of you guys played DOOM in the past and not ever get envolved in the community, and that's ok.
What standards are you talking about though? I really don't get this attitude. You're essentially saying that people would only want to play Doom in this day and age because of nostalgia, since it doesn't hold up by today's standards. That people played it at the time, didn't like it as much as people like games that are made nowadays, but they played it because there's nothing better.
Being able to aim your gun about more than one axis is not a standard, it's a mechanism. Aiming across two axes does not make for 'better' gameplay, just different (not that much in the case of Doom though, given the levels). Or would you say that current day FPS will become obsolete in favor of VR FPS where you can do much more than aim on just two axes?
The idea that different, established types of gameplay are inherently better and set some sort of base standard really annoys me. That gameplay needs to 'evolve', 'modernize'. I really wish people would quit with that, it shows such a lack of understanding of game design, and what makes a game, a game. It's fine if you speculate that there is no audience for certain gameplay, but beyond that, you're arguing taste.
Will post my impressions shortly
Are you able to check whether you can do the challenges or not? See my post further up as it says it's unavailable for me. Cheer!
Bloodporne
Member
Gameplay impressions and videos? It's extremely liked the game is mainly centered around arenas with those spawn points you have to destroy and from the videos shown. I'm not saying there are no connecting corridors in between but it seems heavily reliant upon enemy wave/arena design. We're obviously not going to agree or come to a conclusion, don't worry about it. My comment above was simply about you pointing out one gimmick map to counter people saying they don't like the arena focus of this new one. It's not the same thing as I said.
Psyrgery ES
Member
This is you
This is you... on drugs.
Geez what's up with his jaw?
This is you... on drugs.
Geez what's up with his jaw?
By the same gameplay impressions, videos and leaked material I can say that there is more than just arenas. The same goes for "one gimmick" map, there is other examples of lock room trap arenas in DOOM.
We shall see soon
dragonflys545
Member
Need impressions! Is it just a glorify Arena shooter? Or does it do something new?
Er, not quite. I get how it's easy to assume that I'm being judgmental and trying to paint Doom fans into a corner with the nostalgia glasses -- I'm not. But it is kind of hard, as fans, to divorce ourselves from the reality that time and place really elevates those games for us; they created new standards on their own and helped propel the overall quality of games where they are today.
When we go back and play those games, we accept their limitations in contrast with what we have now. That doesn't necessarily imply that Doom 2 would somehow be better with mouselook or something -- it wasn't really built for it, so it probably ends up being no better with it -- but we're not going to suddenly start judging these games against the standard of AAA FPS budget games with regard to technical accomplishments, for example.
As far as aiming goes in FPS games these days, I'd say it probably is both a standard and a mechanism (are the two mutually exclusive in your mind?). You don't tend to see a lot of FPS action games that limit you in the same way the older Doom games did; so from the context of trying to "modernize" a game, it would seem this is usually one fairly obvious way in which these games get that treatment.
With respect to VR, I don't really know! Maybe? We'll have to wait and see since there's a lot more to VR than just the creative side.
Finally, I suppose in a way suggesting that the audience may not exist anymore is similar to suggesting that the games need to 'modernize.' This gets more into the business of making games, rather than the 'art' itself -- from the art side, I agree with your thesis. There's nothing better or worse, inherently, about the way Doom 2 does aiming, and DOOM does it. But certainly one becomes more attractive than the other when we look at our audiences, and the standards of the day (which are effected by the potential audience). So I guess I'd just say that, I agree and empathize with you completely on this, but, well, it *does* need to modernize itself, and does need to be a particular standard to appeal to more than just you and I. Such is the reality of the other side of the coin of game design, which is the realities of the business, I guess.
Tetris is one of the greatest games ever made. Could you release it today and charge 60 bucks for the same package you got in the 80's? Absolutely not.
Pac-Man is one of the greatest games ever made and might be the most played game in history. Could you release it for 60 bucks today? No. BUT, they did release Championship Edition with updated gameplay, map theory, and modes. It was glorious and well received.
The point is, if they remastered the original Doom or made it in a contemporary 3D engine, it would appease older die-hard fans, but ignore everyone else who has been through the evolution of first person shooters since 1993. Balance and other adjustments for appeal have to be considered, lest we have a locked vertical axis and no jump button. That said, the new game does not resemble a COD, Battlefield, or Halo, yet some of the nuances from such games are there.
New Doom is neither old school or new school, but it borrows from both and is somewhere in the middle.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I think that turning Doom 3 into a sort of horror game was a cool idea. I like it. A sequel doesn't have to be exactly the same as the old ones. As you say there were execution issues but the basic idea was good.
(and also, maybe, in part built out of necessity - the tech to render tons of enemies on screen at that fidelity was not there).
That said a game that has the same ideas as the old Doom games (no Serious Sam does not count) is very welcome in this day and age.
Oh, dear God, NO. I cannot take screen tearing; it is a constant distraction.
Bloodporne
Member
I already said it somewhere else but I think PSX Doom and Doom 64 did a much better job bringing out the Horror elements full force due to the soundtracks and much more atmospheric lighting possibilities. Perfect marriage of atmosphere and action/gameplay to this day for me.
Are there any recent examples of this actually happening though, price aside? I always feel like this is the general feeling when older games come back, but I have a hard time thinking of a case where the style and feel was strictly adhered to in a recent release, and that was a major source of criticism. Usually you see the opposite.
This. I mean you already have examples of plenty of old school type games being revived and sticking to what made the original great. Pillars of Eternity and Megaman 9/10 for instance.
There are times where reviving old school classics with 0 changes results in negative feedback, but I think those instances are far fewer than when you try to over modernize a classic game.
Allnamestakenlol
Member
PSX Doom gave me the willies more than once, and at least a few jump scares. It's probably the version of Doom I'm most familiar with and to this day rank it quite high on my list of all time fave games.
Grim Patron
Member
Yea just checked and private.
The difference is in the details. Those dead-end paths quite often hold secrets(early powerful guns, and other very helpful pickups) that promote exploration and discovery, elements almost completely lacking in modern FPS titles. Yes, the critical path has gating, but there is a very clear delineation between the 'linearity' of that early Doom map and something more modern.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Just got my copy quick and dirty impressions incoming
quick and dirty impressions incomingRise of the Triad
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