• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Petition for Electors to elect Hillary Clinton

Status
Not open for further replies.

Veelk

Banned
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-...e=notification&utm_campaign=signature_receipt

This is...both a disturbing and tempting proposition. I should get right out of the gate and say I think this has a small chance of happening. This is not me advocating for the petition or asking people to sign. The die has been cast, Hillary has conceded, and it feels like the deal is done.

And in any other election, I'd be vehemently against this. Reneging against the will of the people - stupid, evil asshole people as they are - would probably have some serious repercussions against the very concept of our democracy. Even if it worked, Hillary's legitimacy would forever be cast in the shadow of doubt, and we'd probably have a worse version of the gridlock that Obama had. Ironically, after months of calling the system rigged, Trump and his ilk would actually have a point.

I personally have to cop to some hypocrisy, since I got very angry when I read that the Washington state elector said he would vote trump regardless of his state's casting.

But at the same time, it's been 2 days since the announcement, and Trump has elected a climate change denier into the head of the EPA transition, he wants to let Wall Street scam customers again, Paul Ryan plots to destroy food stamps and fuck over the poor on medicaid, fuck with taxes, wants to appoint a person who spearheaded the Alt Right movement to chief of staff.

This is day 2. In fact, no, it's actually day -70, until his inaugeration.

I can't help but want this to happen. This would be awful to the democratic process and would be have to be reworked for the next election (which might be a good thing long term, but it would shatter people's perceptions/beliefs of democracy).

But we are in the Godzilla Threshold.

There is no situation where even a questionable or even outright undemocratic president would be a worse outcome than a legitimate Trump presidency. I mean, I'm trying, but the damage Trump will do will be catastrophic. If Hillary was elected this way.....I would be on board.
 

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
gonna need a lot of faithless electors, faithless electors that were selected and placed on the ballot by the Trump campaign.

Nice to dream though!
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
I think faithless electors are a fair consequence of the electoral college, and opponents of the electoral college should absolutely cheer for this outcome since it would finally make abolition of the EC a bipartisan effort instead of a largely Democratic-led sour grapes effort complaining about Gore's EC loss in 2000. So I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with this.

But it's a change.org petition by someone who like all the rest of us is shellshocked because how the fuck did this happen and that's not really a basis for rational policy or strategic planning going forward. This is not going to happen.
 

Jonnax

Member
lol. Imagine, that'd be a funny turn of events.

But even if it did happen Trump's base will be out for blood. Real blood.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Democracy is only okay when it goes my way.

This would still be democracy.



Also, if you look at the fucking purpose of the EC, their entire goal is preventing the exact situation that is happening now. That they won't just means the EC continues to be the complete failure of a system-
 

antonz

Member
This is yet another revision of the 'both sides' argument.

If this was just another Republican candidate, cool.

What we are facing here is something else.

No its not another revision. People like you need to get the fuck over it. Trump sucks but he was fairly elected. You are no better than Vladamir Putin with this shit
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Democracy is only okay when it goes my way.

Seriously...

I'm frustrated and depressed as much as anyone about how Trump could have won, but we need to accept the results of the election if democracy is to continue.
 

Veelk

Banned
More people voted for Clinton. It is the system that fucked this up.

Maybe, but it's the system we agreed to. That's what makes it so damning. Regardless of anything else, this is the ruleset we as a people agreed to follow.

I'd willing to throw out those rules to prevent a Trump presidency, but I acknowledge it would be illegitimate as fuck.
 

oti

Banned
The electoral system you're using is garbage but it's the system both candidates and all of America agreed on. There's not much else to be said here.
 
You guys sound like sore losers, take the L already.

Yeah, screw it, let's just allow abortion to become illegal again, let's just rescind gay marriage, Trump won fair and square after all.

Fuck the environment, climate change isn't real anyway. Everyone should just stop whining.
 
I think faithless electors are a fair consequence of the electoral college, and opponents of the electoral college should absolutely cheer for this outcome since it would finally make abolition of the EC a bipartisan effort instead of a largely Democratic-led sour grapes effort complaining about Gore's EC loss in 2000. So I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with this.

But it's a change.org petition by someone who like all the rest of us is shellshocked because how the fuck did this happen and that's not really a basis for rational policy or strategic planning going forward. This is not going to happen.
You think there is nothing intrinsically wrong with undermining the rule of law and potentially formenting civil war, and setting a precedent for the overthrow of the democratic process in the future?
 

TaterTots

Banned
Actually it wouldn't really be against the will of the people as Hillary is winning the popular vote.

According to CNN earlier that has a small chance of changing...

Either way both parties have benefited from the ec. Wanting to change that now would be insane. That's never going away.
 
what really depresses me is that this same bunch who have this sudden fire to go to bat against the electoral college probably aren't even going to vote in 2018
 

Veelk

Banned
I think faithless electors are a fair consequence of the electoral college, and opponents of the electoral college should absolutely cheer for this outcome since it would finally make abolition of the EC a bipartisan effort instead of a largely Democratic-led sour grapes effort complaining about Gore's EC loss in 2000. So I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with this.

But it's a change.org petition by someone who like all the rest of us is shellshocked because how the fuck did this happen and that's not really a basis for rational policy or strategic planning going forward. This is not going to happen.

Yeah, I'd like to emphasize again that I am not asking people to sign on or anything. I don't think it's going to happen either.

I just think "Wow, we have an actual out...and it's shady as fuck, but I think we should take it anyway"
 
Its nice to want things.

This would still be democracy.



Also, if you look at the fucking purpose of the EC, their entire goal is preventing the exact situation that is happening now. That they won't just means the EC continues to be the complete failure of a system-

No its not. There is no option to vote no on this. No alternative. Its just X amount of people want this.
 
Yeah, screw it, let's just allow abortion to become illegal again, let's just rescind gay marriage, Trump won fair and square after all.

Fuck the environment, climate change isn't real anyway. Everyone should just stop whining.
As we reminded people over and over when Obama and the Democrats took back the government in 08' - elections have consequences.
 
Fuck off, stop crying and move the fuck on.

Imagine the amount of blood spilt in this country if this were to happen. Riots in mass would happen across the country, and the public's trust in the system would come to an end.

Yeah, screw it, let's just allow abortion to become illegal again, let's just rescind gay marriage, Trump won fair and square after all.

Fuck the environment, climate change isn't real anyway. Everyone should just stop whining.

You don't have to support Trump. No one is saying for you stop protesting. You have that right as an American.

However, to completely ignore our democratic process would be far more devastating to our country than a Trump presidency.
 

MUnited83

For you.
I asked this



In the trump topic about this petition. Given the replies in here so far I'm guessing I was pretty much right?

No, it's asking for the EC to do their fucking jobs and their entire fucking purpose that is preventing a demagogue like Trump that does not have the popular vote from becoming president.

They won't though, and that just confirms how much of a shit system the EC is. It has no purpose to exist.
 

Damaniel

Banned
This isn't possible, nor should it be. He won it fair and square, and his supporters wouldn't take it sitting down.

We need to concentrate on getting Democrats to actually vote (and giving them a candidate they're willing to vote for) - not creating petitions to override the results of a legitimately won election.
 

iammeiam

Member
This is where the Electoral College breaks my brain.

She lost. She didn't get the EC votes needed to win, despite getting more total votes.

The EC is set up to theoretically protect against Trump-like candidates, but in the end is enabling one. If the same rules that give him the win also technically allow electors to deny him it, what does that mean? like, the same system that makes the discussion possible is the only reason he won in the first place.

She lost. It's over. But it's an incredibly weird thing to think about because the rules by which he won technically also allow for this.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, screw it, let's just allow abortion to become illegal again, let's just rescind gay marriage, Trump won fair and square after all.

Fuck the environment, climate change isn't real anyway. Everyone should just stop whining.

Definitely do not stop whining or protesting or taking political action, but to deny the results of the election is to deny the union and our democracy. That means revolution and that means immediate violence and possibly civil war. At this point in time, I don't think we can say that state of affairs and what comes after it is preferable to what we *expect* a Trump presidency to bring.
 

Audioboxer

Member
No, it's asking for the EC to do their fucking jobs and their entire fucking purpose that is preventing a demagogue like Trump that does not have the popular vote from becoming president.

They won't though, and that just confirms how much of a shit system the EC is. It has no purpose to exist.

I'm not 100% sure what the EC is :/

If they have power to block Trump being president okay, but can they then elect the runner up as well?
 

Futureman

Member
I signed it with less than zero percent chance that this will happen.

Could you imagine the violent protests if it went down?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom