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[Aaron Strife]

Dude, I played Banjo Kazooie back in the day! The game was the least political game you could ask for in a year that delivered Resident Evil 2, Metal Gear Solid, and Tekken 3.

It blows my mind. Are these the same people who were up in arms over censorship in games after Columbine, because ironically, they now seem to align with the Jack Thompsons of the world.

I, and I'm sure, many others here have grown up on coarse entertainment mediums that were anti politically correct. I watched Married....with Children and Benny Hill. I was a fan of Bill Hicks and Sam Kinison, and was a regular fan of Howard Stern back in the 1990's. I, and many others, were what you'd consider a nerd in all the classic sense possible. But I never verged into racism or misogyny. I did find solace in videogames, yes, but I was never consumed by them to the extent that my life centered on them exclusively. But at the same time, I never had multiplayer options. Anyone Genesis owners back in the day remember how Sega would market their forthcoming modem? It was like this sublime innovation that would change everything. I'm still that way. I never liked online gameplay and felt that it hobbled the singleplayer version of a game.

It's really fucked up how this hobby has grown and degenerated over the past decade. Not that I ever needed this hobby to be validated by the mainstream to give meaning to my life, but it was kind of cool to have it acknowledged in pop culture without all the usual baggage associated with the hobby, and it's a shame that we're almost back to square one in that regard.

I have to admit that Gamergate flew under my radar. But the particular details that I've since brushed up on really seem to amount to petty shit. I can't believe that this became what it ultimately became. So I am paying some attention to how this present situation will play out with Yooka Laylee.

I really loved Banjo Kazooie back in the day and wish Playtonic nothing but success for Yooka Laylee, but this almost seems like a self inflicted wound that they could have otherwise avoided. I'm not blaming them. It was a naive mistake on their part, but what were the net positives of bringing aboard a Youtube personality in the first place? I support their desire to distance themselves from anyone that could taint their product, but it concerns me that this could end up becoming another alt-right fiasco.... over a fucking Banjo Kazooie clone no less.

I forget if Jon got the voice part as a Kickstarter reward (there was a certain tier, well into the thousands of dollars, that let you be a voice-over in the game) or if they just offered it to him.

Jon hasn't been a stranger to PC-related controversy (first "episode" I seem to remember was him flipping out at people asking him not to use the word "retarded" like three years ago) but the fucking batshit alt-right, white supremacy stuff didn't really rear its head until recently.

He's also friends with Grant Kirkhope, one of the composers for the game (who also composed Banjo-Kazooie). Although Grant is fairly left-leaning so who knows if that's the case now.

 

[SL128]

Would you need a good computer to play the game when it comes out I had a look at some videos of it and it maybe looks kinda fun but idk if this laptop would be good enough? All I have right now is a 3ds but I'm saving up money to get a switch

The game will be coming out on the Switch, so you'll still be able to (eventually) play it

 

[ISee]

Dude, I played Banjo Kazooie back in the day! The game was the least political game you could ask for in a year that delivered Resident Evil 2, Metal Gear Solid, and Tekken 3.

It blows my mind. Are these the same people who were up in arms over censorship in games after Columbine, because ironically, they now seem to align with the Jack Thompsons of the world.

I, and I'm sure, many others here have grown up on coarse entertainment mediums that were anti politically correct. I watched Married....with Children and Benny Hill. I was a fan of Bill Hicks and Sam Kinison, and was a regular fan of Howard Stern back in the 1990's. I, and many others, were what you'd consider a nerd in all the classic sense possible. But I never verged into racism or misogyny. I did find solace in videogames, yes, but I was never consumed by them to the extent that my life centered on them exclusively. But at the same time, I never had multiplayer options. Anyone Genesis owners back in the day remember how Sega would market their forthcoming modem? It was like this sublime innovation that would change everything. I'm still that way. I never liked online gameplay and felt that it hobbled the singleplayer version of a game.

It's really fucked up how this hobby has grown and degenerated over the past decade. Not that I ever needed this hobby to be validated by the mainstream to give meaning to my life, but it was kind of cool to have it acknowledged in pop culture without all the usual baggage associated with the hobby, and it's a shame that we're almost back to square one in that regard.

I have to admit that Gamergate flew under my radar. But the particular details that I've since brushed up on really seem to amount to petty shit. I can't believe that this became what it ultimately became. So I am paying some attention to how this present situation will play out with Yooka Laylee.

I really loved Banjo Kazooie back in the day and wish Playtonic nothing but success for Yooka Laylee, but this almost seems like a self inflicted wound that they could have otherwise avoided. I'm not blaming them. It was a naive mistake on their part, but what were the net positives of bringing aboard a Youtube personality in the first place? I support their desire to distance themselves from anyone that could taint their product, but it concerns me that this could end up becoming another alt-right fiasco.... over a fucking Banjo Kazooie clone no less.

Just out of curiosity. Why do you think playtronic 'fired' JonTron?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I doubt Jon got it as a Kickstarter reward. He tweeted at playtonic something about letting him know if any voice acting gigs became available in the game (as a joke) and they tweeted back something like 'start practicing your gibberish because we're sending a microphone with googly eyes your way'. So it seems like they did it specifically for marketing and as a nice touch to a famous mega fan. Then he had to fuck it all up

 

[WillyFive]

Yes. People are doing it to poison discussion and confuse people who don't know what is going on.

Yep, it's a pretty common strategy nowadays. If you go on conservative news media, you will find an alternate reality where every horrific thing Trump said or has done is actually from Obama or Hillary or other people who aren't even in power anymore. It works very effectively, especially in bubbles like in Facebook.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Yep, it's a pretty common strategy nowadays. If you go on conservative news media, you will find an alternate reality where every horrific thing Trump said or has done is actually from Obama or Hillary or other people who aren't even in power anymore. It works very effectively, especially in bubbles like in Facebook.

Trump did this himself. Hillary started pointing out how racist Trump and many of his supporters were and Trump just had to say "no Hillary's the racist" and his dipshit base bought into it. And the media of course played both sides because they didn't want to seem biased.

Because the middle is a great place to be! /s

 

[chaobreaker]

Anyone know if Jon's role in A Hat in Time is actually a paid role? I can see that being a reason why the devs are being silent on his role in the game. They might not have the funds to replace him.

It's been a while since I've posted on GAF, mainly due to life circumstances and such.
The last thing I posted about was.. what, one of Anita Sarkessian's videos? Man it feels like such a long time ago.

The wonderful thing about free speech is that it's a great tool for identifying people you'd rather not associate with.

JonTron used his free speech to give everybody his opinion on who should enter the American gene pool, and whether Mexicans are trying to take over California, one taco truck at a time, to reclaim the Atzlan, because that's rational.

People who heard it used their free speech to say he's woefully ignorant, a racist, and a possible eugenicist.

The makers of the game he was involved in used their free speech and freedom of association to NOT associate with JonTron.

Freedom at work!

But really, this was a long time coming to anybody paying attention at Playtonic. Anybody who followed Grant Kirkhope's Twitter knows he's left-leaning. Anti-Trump (had some choice words for him), Anti-Brexit, Pro-free immigration (no shit, considering video games are a global product and Rare in the good ol' days greatly benefitted from being able to hire from anywhere in Europe) I'd imagine most of Playtonic are left-leaning, as artists tend to be. But you really don't have to be some extreme liberal to reject JonTron's view of ethnic superiority.

What's really going to eat at Jon in the future, should he be introspective of his own role in this, isn't going to be the criticism he's getting from here or liberals in Twitter or the Mainstream Media boogeyman that's ruining his career. It's not going to be all of his old friends distancing themselves from him. If these are his deepest held beliefs, it's only natural for people to disagree to grow apart. What's going to eat at him is that his childhood heroes, the developers at Rare/Playtonic, Tim Schafer, Nintendo, etc. that made his favorite games, people he got to rub shoulders with and discuss game ideas with, maybe even the possibility to work with them on a game itself, will, most likely, permanently close their doors to him. He had a shot and he blew it. Oh sure he'll still have his subscribers and his twitter following, and he'll have to spend the rest of his time in the limelight convincing himself that it's better than what he's lost. That the grapes he has are definitely sweeter than the ones he threw into the fire.

GAF and the media are blamed for this simply because they don't want to accept that Playtonic did it on their own, because they disagree that immigrants dilute gene pools, that blacks are inherently criminal, and were horrified at those comments enough to distance themselves from him before letting a game aimed somewhere around the child-teen area get released. It must be those SJWs, right? And the Frankfurt School teaming up with the Illuminati! They poisoned his heroes against him, using free speech no less!

His time in the game industry isn't completely over, I'm sure. He might get some VA work for one of the developers more friendly to his politics and his views on ethnic purity. But it will be just that. Political. A dev using him to gain access to his fans. And that's not going to be the same as working on a spiritual sequel to one of his favorite games from his childhood, is it? And considering one of Grant Kirkhope's latest tweets is laughing at somebody mocking the idea of Jon's newer fans "boycotting" the game, it's gotta feel pretty empty what he traded a future with his heroes for.

Strangely enough, I don’t think he’s beyond all hope. Even George Wallace repented for his decades of racism. But what’s going to make that outcome take longer, if at all, is his demeanor during that stream. This wasn’t him being angry at some dude cutting him off in traffic and letting an epithet slip out. That can be all of us, and it’s easy to let learned inhibitions slide in anger. No, Jon delivered his comment with clear eyes and calm voice, with the timbre and pace of studied repetition. That will take some hard thought or some extreme life event to undo, and I don’t think Boogie, who styles himself the Troubled Youtube Star whisperer, can undo it with platitudes.

Well said. This is most definitely a huge turning point in his career. I can see a lot of doors closing for him and some opening up if he doesn't repent his views. Emphasis on if. Jon seems to be doubling down on it even as his childhood heroes turn their back on him.

 

[llehuty]

Wow, that Deguello post is fantastic, can someone pin it in the Steam community or something?. I ventured there yesterday (after reporting the stupid tags the game got), and holy shit how thankful I am of having a proper education, critical thinking and maturity on my side.

I can't imagine myself with the pathetic views of some of the people there that would justify almost anything with the weirdest arguments and logic gymnastics.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

It never ceases to amaze me how easily the GG and alt-right and other similar crowds will accept the idea that "evil SJWs" are influencing these otherwise "neutral" companies and developers, as though they simply cannot fathom that they are in the vanishingly small minority.

Most people look at the kind of things expressed by these crowds and say "Fuck no".

 

[Mojoraisin]

Trump did this himself. Hillary started pointing out how racist Trump and many of his supporters were and Trump just had to say "no Hillary's the racist" and his dipshit base bought into it. And the media of course played both sides because they didn't want to seem biased.

Because the middle is a great place to be! /s

Not sure how if your whole paragraph was sarcasm or just the last statement? The middle is indeed where media should be. Present facts as fairly as possible and let people make up their mind on their own. Agenda driven journalism is terrible.

 

[Thud]

Well said. This is most definitely a huge turning point in his career. I can see a lot of doors closing for him and some opening up if he doesn't repent his views. Emphasis on if. Jon seems to be doubling down on it even as his childhood heroes turn their back on him.

Man it sounds like the making of a comic book villain.

 

[MrBadger]

Not sure how if your whole paragraph was sarcasm or just the last statement? The middle is indeed where media should be. Present facts as fairly as possible and let people make up their mind on their own. Agenda driven journalism is terrible.

The point is more that not every situation has a middle ground. Sometimes people are wrong.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Not sure how if your whole paragraph was sarcasm or just the last statement? The middle is indeed where media should be. Present facts as fairly as possible and let people make up their mind on their own. Agenda driven journalism is terrible.

The point is more that not every situation has a middle ground. Sometimes people are wrong.

Can't really add anything more to this than that.

Journalism in this country is terrible because they constantly try to find a middle where there isn't one. There isn't a middleground between bigotry and not-bigotry, because less extreme bigotry is still bigotry. This is the fundamental problem guys like Boogie (who gifted us with "The middle is a great place to be!") don't understand, there's nothing to "learn" from Jon and others on the alt-right because their ideas are inherently wrong.

 

[MaLDo]

It's been a while since I've posted on GAF, mainly due to life circumstances and such.
The last thing I posted about was.. what, one of Anita Sarkessian's videos? Man it feels like such a long time ago.

The wonderful thing about free speech is that it's a great tool for identifying people you'd rather not associate with.

JonTron used his free speech to give everybody his opinion on who should enter the American gene pool, and whether Mexicans are trying to take over California, one taco truck at a time, to reclaim the Atzlan, because that's rational.

People who heard it used their free speech to say he's woefully ignorant, a racist, and a possible eugenicist.

The makers of the game he was involved in used their free speech and freedom of association to NOT associate with JonTron.

Freedom at work!

But really, this was a long time coming to anybody paying attention at Playtonic. Anybody who followed Grant Kirkhope's Twitter knows he's left-leaning. Anti-Trump (had some choice words for him), Anti-Brexit, Pro-free immigration (no shit, considering video games are a global product and Rare in the good ol' days greatly benefitted from being able to hire from anywhere in Europe) I'd imagine most of Playtonic are left-leaning, as artists tend to be. But you really don't have to be some extreme liberal to reject JonTron's view of ethnic superiority.

What's really going to eat at Jon in the future, should he be introspective of his own role in this, isn't going to be the criticism he's getting from here or liberals in Twitter or the Mainstream Media boogeyman that's ruining his career. It's not going to be all of his old friends distancing themselves from him. If these are his deepest held beliefs, it's only natural for people to disagree to grow apart. What's going to eat at him is that his childhood heroes, the developers at Rare/Playtonic, Tim Schafer, Nintendo, etc. that made his favorite games, people he got to rub shoulders with and discuss game ideas with, maybe even the possibility to work with them on a game itself, will, most likely, permanently close their doors to him. He had a shot and he blew it. Oh sure he'll still have his subscribers and his twitter following, and he'll have to spend the rest of his time in the limelight convincing himself that it's better than what he's lost. That the grapes he has are definitely sweeter than the ones he threw into the fire.

GAF and the media are blamed for this simply because they don't want to accept that Playtonic did it on their own, because they disagree that immigrants dilute gene pools, that blacks are inherently criminal, and were horrified at those comments enough to distance themselves from him before letting a game aimed somewhere around the child-teen area get released. It must be those SJWs, right? And the Frankfurt School teaming up with the Illuminati! They poisoned his heroes against him, using free speech no less!

His time in the game industry isn't completely over, I'm sure. He might get some VA work for one of the developers more friendly to his politics and his views on ethnic purity. But it will be just that. Political. A dev using him to gain access to his fans. And that's not going to be the same as working on a spiritual sequel to one of his favorite games from his childhood, is it? And considering one of Grant Kirkhope's latest tweets is laughing at somebody mocking the idea of Jon's newer fans "boycotting" the game, it's gotta feel pretty empty what he traded a future with his heroes for.

Strangely enough, I don’t think he’s beyond all hope. Even George Wallace repented for his decades of racism. But what’s going to make that outcome take longer, if at all, is his demeanor during that stream. This wasn’t him being angry at some dude cutting him off in traffic and letting an epithet slip out. That can be all of us, and it’s easy to let learned inhibitions slide in anger. No, Jon delivered his comment with clear eyes and calm voice, with the timbre and pace of studied repetition. That will take some hard thought or some extreme life event to undo, and I don’t think Boogie, who styles himself the Troubled Youtube Star whisperer, can undo it with platitudes.

Fully agree.

There is an interesting situation now. Most of current JonTron supporters will demand the same views trend from him. I mean, what they will say about JonTron if he want to do a full rollback?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

It's been a while since I've posted on GAF, mainly due to life circumstances and such.
The last thing I posted about was.. what, one of Anita Sarkessian's videos? Man it feels like such a long time ago.

The wonderful thing about free speech is that it's a great tool for identifying people you'd rather not associate with.

JonTron used his free speech to give everybody his opinion on who should enter the American gene pool, and whether Mexicans are trying to take over California, one taco truck at a time, to reclaim the Atzlan, because that's rational.

People who heard it used their free speech to say he's woefully ignorant, a racist, and a possible eugenicist.

The makers of the game he was involved in used their free speech and freedom of association to NOT associate with JonTron.

Freedom at work!

But really, this was a long time coming to anybody paying attention at Playtonic. Anybody who followed Grant Kirkhope's Twitter knows he's left-leaning. Anti-Trump (had some choice words for him), Anti-Brexit, Pro-free immigration (no shit, considering video games are a global product and Rare in the good ol' days greatly benefitted from being able to hire from anywhere in Europe) I'd imagine most of Playtonic are left-leaning, as artists tend to be. But you really don't have to be some extreme liberal to reject JonTron's view of ethnic superiority.

What's really going to eat at Jon in the future, should he be introspective of his own role in this, isn't going to be the criticism he's getting from here or liberals in Twitter or the Mainstream Media boogeyman that's ruining his career. It's not going to be all of his old friends distancing themselves from him. If these are his deepest held beliefs, it's only natural for people to disagree to grow apart. What's going to eat at him is that his childhood heroes, the developers at Rare/Playtonic, Tim Schafer, Nintendo, etc. that made his favorite games, people he got to rub shoulders with and discuss game ideas with, maybe even the possibility to work with them on a game itself, will, most likely, permanently close their doors to him. He had a shot and he blew it. Oh sure he'll still have his subscribers and his twitter following, and he'll have to spend the rest of his time in the limelight convincing himself that it's better than what he's lost. That the grapes he has are definitely sweeter than the ones he threw into the fire.

GAF and the media are blamed for this simply because they don't want to accept that Playtonic did it on their own, because they disagree that immigrants dilute gene pools, that blacks are inherently criminal, and were horrified at those comments enough to distance themselves from him before letting a game aimed somewhere around the child-teen area get released. It must be those SJWs, right? And the Frankfurt School teaming up with the Illuminati! They poisoned his heroes against him, using free speech no less!

His time in the game industry isn't completely over, I'm sure. He might get some VA work for one of the developers more friendly to his politics and his views on ethnic purity. But it will be just that. Political. A dev using him to gain access to his fans. And that's not going to be the same as working on a spiritual sequel to one of his favorite games from his childhood, is it? And considering one of Grant Kirkhope's latest tweets is laughing at somebody mocking the idea of Jon's newer fans "boycotting" the game, it's gotta feel pretty empty what he traded a future with his heroes for.

Strangely enough, I don't think he's beyond all hope. Even George Wallace repented for his decades of racism. But what's going to make that outcome take longer, if at all, is his demeanor during that stream. This wasn't him being angry at some dude cutting him off in traffic and letting an epithet slip out. That can be all of us, and it's easy to let learned inhibitions slide in anger. No, Jon delivered his comment with clear eyes and calm voice, with the timbre and pace of studied repetition. That will take some hard thought or some extreme life event to undo, and I don't think Boogie, who styles himself the Troubled Youtube Star whisperer, can undo it with platitudes.

You bring up an excellent point about dev companies and people who were once heroes to alt-right and GG types. It's been real fascinating how Jack Thompson and Denis Dyack out of nowhere became their new heroes to replace Nintendo, Tim Schafer, etc. Guys who were once seen as villains to video games are now being respected by these people all cuz they speak out against censorship and feminism.

 

[chaobreaker]

Man it sounds like the making of a comic book villain.

 

[Mojoraisin]

The point is more that not every situation has a middle ground. Sometimes people are wrong.

That's from your perspective. If someone wants to argue that bigotry (definitely not the best example ) is great, let them. They'll look like idiots anyway. It's not medias role to tell people what's right and wrong and censorship will only make matter worse in form of polarization and creating bubbles of opinion. Media should be a platform to facilitate discussion and debate while adding knowledge to the reader to make up their own mind. As neutral as possible. Just because something comes from the right or left does not automatically invalidate their opinion. That kind of talk does not belong in a democratic society.

 

[Mahonay]

That's from your perspective. If someone wants to argue that bigotry is great, let them. They'll look like idiots anyway. It's not medias role to tell people what's right and wrong and censorship will only make matter worse in form of polarization and creating bubbles of opinion. Media should be a platform to facilitate discussion and debate while adding knowledge to the reader to make up their own mind. As neutral as possible. Just because something comes from the right or left does not automatically invalidate their opinion. That kind of talk does not belong in a democratic society.

I'm sorry but right now that's not something we have the luxury of doing with a literal fascist running our country and promoting racism as rule of law.

Racists can get fucked and I'm more than ok with the media calling them out whenever possible. No one needs to be neutral to HATE. Fuck them.

 

[MadLaughter]

That's from your perspective. If someone wants to argue that bigotry (definitely not the best example ) is great, let them. They'll look like idiots anyway. It's not medias role to tell people what's right and wrong and censorship will only make matter worse in form of polarization and creating bubbles of opinion. Media should be a platform to facilitate discussion and debate while adding knowledge to the reader to make up their own mind. As neutral as possible. Just because something comes from the right or left does not automatically invalidate their opinion. That kind of talk does not belong in a democratic society.

There is no middle ground or neutrality with RACISM. JonTron is a racist.

 

[muteki]

I can't believe this is still ongoing. This is the most cut-and-dry thing ever.

 

[Onemic]

That's from your perspective. If someone wants to argue that bigotry (definitely not the best example ) is great, let them. They'll look like idiots anyway. It's not medias role to tell people what's right and wrong and censorship will only make matter worse in form of polarization and creating bubbles of opinion. Media should be a platform to facilitate discussion and debate while adding knowledge to the reader to make up their own mind. As neutral as possible. Just because something comes from the right or left does not automatically invalidate their opinion. That kind of talk does not belong in a democratic society.

Trump did that and he's president. Bannon did that and he's chief strategist. Pence did that and he's VP.

 

[Mahonay]

I can't believe this is still ongoing. This is the most cut-and-dry thing ever.

You'd think so right?

 

[DrArchon]

It's not medias role to tell people what's right and wrong

That's how we ended up with shit like people not agreeing on whether or not man-made climate change is a thing. Sometimes people are just wrong and the media has an obligation to say that they're wrong.

Not everything is shades of gray. Not everything is somewhere in the middle like an episode of South Park.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

I can't believe this is still ongoing. This is the most cut-and-dry thing ever.

Some people just like to feign ignorance.

 

[Bananastand]

I can't believe this is still ongoing. This is the most cut-and-dry thing ever.

It is going to start all over again once the game actually comes out because they can link the quality of the game to Jon's removal.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Not sure how if your whole paragraph was sarcasm or just the last statement? The middle is indeed where media should be. Present facts as fairly as possible and let people make up their mind on their own. Agenda driven journalism is terrible.

The worst is when they then say actual facts are agenda driven journalism. It's basically "I know you are but what am I" and for some reason it works amazingly well. It bypasses logic and Repubs go with it.

On topic, hopefully Jon isn't too far off the deep end in terms of realizing yes, he's being a fucking racist idiot. This is a pretty significant slap in the face to wake him up that wouldn't have been done easily otherwise.

 

[grim-tales]

That was who I thought of as well

 

[APF]

The role of media is not simply to transcribe what powerful voices want them to broadcast. the role of media is to inform the public, and you cannot do that without saying what's accurate, vs what's spin or disinformation. Simply presenting "both sides" doesn't do this. In fact, doing so can create the idea of a false balance between two divergent perspectives, when the reality might be one of complete imbalance (a good example is scientific consensus re: climate change). Media's role should be to help facilitate the public's understanding of complex and multifaceted issues, and it has an obligation to attempt to do so objectively, but being objective does not mean it shouldn't accurately weight the value of different sources--in fact, to do so is the exact opposite of objective.

 

[Deguello]

You bring up an excellent point about dev companies and people who were once heroes to alt-right and GG types. It's been real fascinating how Jack Thompson and Denis Dyack out of nowhere became their new heroes to replace Nintendo, Tim Schafer, etc. Guys who were once seen as villains to video games are now being respected by these people all cuz they speak out against censorship and feminism.

Nintendo to GamerGate was a roller coaster ride of being a champion and a devil.

2014: Bayonetta 2 existing and being considered a thorn in the side of feminist critics meant Nintendo didn't care about protesting, twitter complaints, and ineffectual boycotts.

2015: Fire Emblem: Fates and Xenoblade X having some changes in localization made them censors and SJWs, so they spent their time protesting, complaining on twitter, and running an ineffectual boycott. During this time was the airing of grievances with localization/censorship, including that time they changed a character from Paper Mario from a very feminine boy to a girl, or anytime a tiddy or a butt became less tiddy or butt.

2016: Nintendo is back in the winner column because Link isn't a girl or transgendered, thus rubbing it in the faces of the handful of people on Twitter or Tumblr who vociferously (often times crazily) demand it. "That must be why they did it and they must be listening to us!"

2017: Nintendo betrayed us all again! Link's wearing some kind of girl getup for a bit in this new game. "How could the SJWs win?! They've been trying to foist SJW crap on us since 2004 when they put a tranny in a Paper Mario game!"

It was many feet in search of a rake.

 

[L Thammy]

The media's job is to inform people. They do not have the obligation to tell people what lies idiots are spouting in order to make those idiots and their supporters feel better, or to act like those idiots are standing on the same ground as everyone else.

Yep, it's a pretty common strategy nowadays. If you go on conservative news media, you will find an alternate reality where every horrific thing Trump said or has done is actually from Obama or Hillary or other people who aren't even in power anymore. It works very effectively, especially in bubbles like in Facebook.

This will never stop being bizarre to me. How Trump can just say "the vote was rigged", with no evidence, without being someone in a position to know that information, and then people will believe it anyway.

 

[Camjo-Z]

2017: Nintendo betrayed us all again! Link's wearing some kind of girl getup for a bit in this new game. "How could the SJWs win?!"

I'm not so sure they were upset about that. Put a transgender character in a game and it's pitchforks out, but have a boy wear girl's clothing and suddenly they get something else out.

 

[Mojoraisin]

The role of media is not simply to transcribe what powerful voices want them to broadcast. the role of media is to inform the public, and you cannot do that without saying what's accurate, vs what's spin or disinformation. Simply presenting "both sides" doesn't do this. In fact, doing so can create the idea of a false balance between two divergent perspectives, when the reality might be one of complete imbalance (a good example is scientific consensus re: climate change). Media's role should be to help facilitate the public's understanding of complex and multifaceted issues, and it has an obligation to attempt to do so objectively, but being objective does not mean it shouldn't accurately weight the value of different sources--in fact, to do so is the exact opposite of objective.

That's a better description than I used and you make a good final point. Their starting point can still be objective though. Key here is to think outside your own comfortable reality and start anew (but yes, scientific facts are facts).

Don't want to get further off topic here but I find it terrifying that _some_ seem to think censorship of opposite views (not necessarily this particular case) is beneficial for society. We have totally different views on the way forward then.

 

[Gestault]

On topic, hopefully Jon isn't too far off the deep end in terms of realizing yes, he's being a fucking racist idiot. This is a pretty significant slap in the face to wake him up that wouldn't have been done easily otherwise.

When I was watching the original debate after his tweets and taking notes on what he was really saying, I was honestly taken aback. It was so specifically racist, with multiple layers to his "evidence" and rationales.

The way it wasn't simply that American blacks (a weird topic in an immigration discussion) are crime-prone due to socio-economic patterns, it was that you should refer to corresponding crime rates in the US and Africa, because it shows that ALL blacks are inherently criminal, that even a wealthy black person would commit more crimes than a poor white person. It wasn't just that introducing large migrant populations can be disruptive to social norms in the short term, it was that non-whites would taint the gene pool. It wasn't that the job market is saturated so we should reduce workforce immigration rates (which isn't our situation anyway), it was that there was a specific, organized ploy by Mexicans to usurp American territory back to Mexico using the work-visa program. He said specifically how non-whites voting for their own interests was worse both for whites and the country itself. He wanted laws changed to protect white supremacy in America because voting patterns would change to reflect a larger non-white population. This is just a sampling.

When you actually look at what he was spending hours advocating, it's almost baffling.

 

[Messofanego]

That's a better description than I used and you make a good final point. Their starting point can still be objective though. Key here is to think outside your own comfortable reality and start anew (but yes, scientific facts are facts).

Don't want to get further off topic here but I find it terrifying that _some_ seem to think censorship of opposite views (not necessarily this particular case) is beneficial for society. We have totally different views on the way forward then.

Which opposite views? Cause if it's bigotry and racism, those aren't views that you can contest in a fair debate, that's just hatred. While there are a lot of hateful Republicans or conservatives, I'm pretty sure the more reasonable ones would hate to be lumped up with them.

 

[Camjo-Z]

When you actually look at what he was spending hours advocating, it's almost baffling.

h-he was just flustered

 

[Mahonay]

Don't want to get further off topic here but I find it terrifying that _some_ seem to think censorship of opposite views (not necessarily this particular case) is beneficial for society. We have totally different views on the way forward then.

Racism and hate is not a view. Stop it.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

.... the exact thing they said they are dropping Jafari for?

Yes. Because these people are scum, know what they're doing is scummy, and that no decent person would want to be associated with them.

So the best recourse they have is trying to make it appear you're associated with them. God help us all.

Racism and hate is not a view. Stop it.

Oh and the idiots defending this on Twitter told me I must be a bigot and, quoting here, "not a good person" for saying it's fine to be intolerant of racists. Talking to these people is something else.

 

[joe2187]

Racism and hate is not a view. Stop it.

No, It was just opinion!

How can you ostracize jon for having an opinion?

And he was just stating facts!, nothing he said was racist if he was 100% correct in what he said.

You're just afraid of the truth, that maybe the genetics of other races DO have instinctual behaviors instilled in them.

Besides why is it such a big deal, We have studies that prove that the skull of certain people has an effect on their intelligence and behavior.

You're just a bunch of SJW cucks trying to trample on free speech, part of the NEOGAF cabal of video game terrorists stamping out diversity.

BESIDES WASNT JONTRON A BROWN GUY!? WHO'S RACIST NOW!?

Spoiler

Did I hit all the bullet points? I feel like I'm missing a few

 

[Mahonay]

No, It was just opinion!

How can you ostracize jon for having an opinion?

And he was just stating facts!, nothing he said was racist if he was 100% correct in what he said.

You're just afraid of the truth, that maybe the genetics of other races DO have instinctual behaviors instilled in them.

Besides why is it such a big deal, We have studies that prove that the skull of certain people has an effect on their intelligence and behavior.

You're just a bunch of SJW cucks trying to trample on free speech, part of the NEOGAF cabal of video game terrorists stamping out diversity.

BESIDES WASNT JONTRON A BROWN GUY!? WHO'S RACIST NOW!?

Spoiler

Did I hit all the bullet points? I feel like I'm missing a few

We are The Cuckening.

 

[L Thammy]

Yes. Because these people are scum, know what they're doing is scummy, and that no decent person would want to be associated with them.

So the best recourse they have is trying to make it appear you're associated with them. God help us all.

I think you're making them sound more aware and responsible then they are. My interpretation of this is that they completely reject any criticism of their behaviour. They don't question whether the things they do are right or wrong, and so they assume they're good people by default. This is completely immutable.

But criticism makes them feel bad, so they interpret it as an attack on their feelings. And if the "attack" isn't on their behaviour, it's on them as a person. Maybe about some aspect of themselves that is out of their control - and therefore not their fault - like their race. So terms like "racist" and "white supremacist", instead of being a way to classify people who espouse and act upon certain ideas, becomes either an empty insult or a racial slur for whites.

Someone posted an image of that Steam thread earlier wherein the OP was saying something along the lines of "Playtonic is a whiteI looked at a picture of Playtonic and it looks like they're all white." Because in their warped worldview, they look at this issue and that's what they think happened to them. They think they're just defending themselves in the say way they were attacked.

It's similar to bad artists who lash out at critics and learn nothing.

 

[MisterShine]

If I were in Playtonic's position I wouldn't have removed him, just put out a statement that he wasn't a crazy butthead when we did the recordings and won't be working with him in the future.

It doesn't surprise me at all though that certain 'segments' of the internet are going berserk about this. You know everywhere with a ratings section will be filled with 0's out of 10's that mysteriously say every single thing is wrong with the game plus oh didn't you hear the makers are fucking racist pieces of shits? Not that that affects my score or anything of course!

I'll be buying for sure though. Me and my niece will love it.

 

[RionaaM]

That's a better description than I used and you make a good final point. Their starting point can still be objective though. Key here is to think outside your own comfortable reality and start anew (but yes, scientific facts are facts).

Don't want to get further off topic here but I find it terrifying that _some_ seem to think censorship of opposite views (not necessarily this particular case) is beneficial for society. We have totally different views on the way forward then.

What I find more baffling is that some people consider every single idea, view or opinion worth entertaining, no matter how wrong, misguided or evil it may be. Racism, xenophobia, sexism and all similar kinds of discrimination should never be tolerated nor respected lest they become normalized. Accepting those notions and treating them as worthy of debate is harmful, as that would mean there's a chance, however slight, that they may be right, that they might be true. Giving them a platform helps nobody, and only serves to spread more hate. This isn't about silencing dissent, it's about not promoting hate speech.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

That's a better description than I used and you make a good final point. Their starting point can still be objective though. Key here is to think outside your own comfortable reality and start anew (but yes, scientific facts are facts).

Don't want to get further off topic here but I find it terrifying that _some_ seem to think censorship of opposite views (not necessarily this particular case) is beneficial for society. We have totally different views on the way forward then.

Maybe learn what censorship is before spewing your bullshit any further. JonTron is not entitled to a platform. People like Playtonic taking away his platform because he's a racist piece of shit is not censorship. He's free to spout off all of the dumb bullshit he wants all day long. But we are also free to criticize him for it, and business partners (like playtonic) are free to sever business relationship with him if they decide it's too potentially toxic. See how everyone is free to do whatever they want? See how that works? And see how you will probably completely miss that point and either come back with an even stupider post or just leave the thread entirely because you've run out of stupid things to say?

 

[weekev]

It's been a while since I've posted on GAF, mainly due to life circumstances and such.
The last thing I posted about was.. what, one of Anita Sarkessian's videos? Man it feels like such a long time ago.

The wonderful thing about free speech is that it's a great tool for identifying people you'd rather not associate with.

JonTron used his free speech to give everybody his opinion on who should enter the American gene pool, and whether Mexicans are trying to take over California, one taco truck at a time, to reclaim the Atzlan, because that's rational.

People who heard it used their free speech to say he's woefully ignorant, a racist, and a possible eugenicist.

The makers of the game he was involved in used their free speech and freedom of association to NOT associate with JonTron.

Freedom at work!

But really, this was a long time coming to anybody paying attention at Playtonic. Anybody who followed Grant Kirkhope's Twitter knows he's left-leaning. Anti-Trump (had some choice words for him), Anti-Brexit, Pro-free immigration (no shit, considering video games are a global product and Rare in the good ol' days greatly benefitted from being able to hire from anywhere in Europe) I'd imagine most of Playtonic are left-leaning, as artists tend to be. But you really don't have to be some extreme liberal to reject JonTron's view of ethnic superiority.

What's really going to eat at Jon in the future, should he be introspective of his own role in this, isn't going to be the criticism he's getting from here or liberals in Twitter or the Mainstream Media boogeyman that's ruining his career. It's not going to be all of his old friends distancing themselves from him. If these are his deepest held beliefs, it's only natural for people to disagree to grow apart. What's going to eat at him is that his childhood heroes, the developers at Rare/Playtonic, Tim Schafer, Nintendo, etc. that made his favorite games, people he got to rub shoulders with and discuss game ideas with, maybe even the possibility to work with them on a game itself, will, most likely, permanently close their doors to him. He had a shot and he blew it. Oh sure he'll still have his subscribers and his twitter following, and he'll have to spend the rest of his time in the limelight convincing himself that it's better than what he's lost. That the grapes he has are definitely sweeter than the ones he threw into the fire.

GAF and the media are blamed for this simply because they don't want to accept that Playtonic did it on their own, because they disagree that immigrants dilute gene pools, that blacks are inherently criminal, and were horrified at those comments enough to distance themselves from him before letting a game aimed somewhere around the child-teen area get released. It must be those SJWs, right? And the Frankfurt School teaming up with the Illuminati! They poisoned his heroes against him, using free speech no less!

His time in the game industry isn't completely over, I'm sure. He might get some VA work for one of the developers more friendly to his politics and his views on ethnic purity. But it will be just that. Political. A dev using him to gain access to his fans. And that's not going to be the same as working on a spiritual sequel to one of his favorite games from his childhood, is it? And considering one of Grant Kirkhope's latest tweets is laughing at somebody mocking the idea of Jon's newer fans "boycotting" the game, it's gotta feel pretty empty what he traded a future with his heroes for.

Strangely enough, I don’t think he’s beyond all hope. Even George Wallace repented for his decades of racism. But what’s going to make that outcome take longer, if at all, is his demeanor during that stream. This wasn’t him being angry at some dude cutting him off in traffic and letting an epithet slip out. That can be all of us, and it’s easy to let learned inhibitions slide in anger. No, Jon delivered his comment with clear eyes and calm voice, with the timbre and pace of studied repetition. That will take some hard thought or some extreme life event to undo, and I don’t think Boogie, who styles himself the Troubled Youtube Star whisperer, can undo it with platitudes.

If this is the quality of your posts, you should post more often. Good job and well said.

 

[Armaros]

That's from your perspective. If someone wants to argue that bigotry (definitely not the best example ) is great, let them. They'll look like idiots anyway. It's not medias role to tell people what's right and wrong and censorship will only make matter worse in form of polarization and creating bubbles of opinion. Media should be a platform to facilitate discussion and debate while adding knowledge to the reader to make up their own mind. As neutral as possible. Just because something comes from the right or left does not automatically invalidate their opinion. That kind of talk does not belong in a democratic society.

The golden middle is actually a fallacy. No all arguments should be crafted as either side has something constructive to add.

That's how you get stuff like holocaust denial. There is no middle ground.

Edit: journalism saying something that is factually false as factually false is not censorship,

 

[JetSetRadio]

Can we expect reviews influenced by the whole shitshow, like +2/-2?

 

[Alucrid]

Can we expect reviews influenced by the whole shitshow, like +2/-2?

maybe from gamergatespot

 

[MrBadger]

Can we expect reviews influenced by the whole shitshow, like +2/-2?

I doubt it. Expect a chunk of negative user reviews on Metacritic but I'll be surprised if many critics even bring this up. This situation shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[WorldofMiku]

If I were in Playtonic's position I wouldn't have removed him, just put out a statement that he wasn't a crazy butthead when we did the recordings and won't be working with him in the future.

That statement wouldn't make much difference. The white supremacists will think JonTron is still getting punished because "free speech".

 

[le.phat]

Wow, yall really hate Jontron that much huh?

Hate is such a strong word, but i certainly resent his view of the world and his moral fiber. If anything, i feel sorry for him, to have to endure life with such a limiting worldview. After all, he get's to spend his time on this earth only once.