Jaguar Victory
Member
Holy shit, yes you do. 60" 4K here ready to mother fucking roll. Uncharted 4 looked great on the Pro at 1440p. Can't wait to see 4K native.
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Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio
- Thread starter LelouchZero
- Start date
Holy shit, yes you do. 60" 4K here ready to mother fucking roll. Uncharted 4 looked great on the Pro at 1440p. Can't wait to see 4K native.
geordiemp
Member
Ryzen to Jaguar will be something silly like 2 x assuming same clocks, Ryzen also runs cooler so it will smash Jaguar so easily it will not be in the same league.
60 FPS gaming on console at last....
I'd say mindshare, which they destroyed early on, word of mouth, and price mattered far more than any differences in ports. This is especially true when the vast majority of gamers see the differences as negligible, if they see the differences at all.
Yeah the PS5 exclusives will look better than the Xbox exclusive they usually do but for the majority of games that are developed multi platform this wouldn't be the case at least for the beefier Xbox vs PS5.
That's part of it but also their poor launch announcement via E3 with the DRM fiasco and the lack of compelling software makes me not even bat an eye at Scorpio till I see something to back it up (games).
E-Cat
Member
Well, this time the difference would be even more pronounced. I'm not talking about just visual artifacts, either. You cannot cross the power delta between the Jag and a Zen++ and expect your code to scale smoothly.
Anandtech's take on the specs - http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1359044
Their note on the memory subsystem is very interesting especially the part about the comparison to 7970. Even though it's simpler than the ESRAM+DDR3 setup, it sounds more complicated (for utilization) than the approach in PS4/PS4 Pro.
Their note on the memory subsystem is very interesting especially the part about the comparison to 7970. Even though it's simpler than the ESRAM+DDR3 setup, it sounds more complicated (for utilization) than the approach in PS4/PS4 Pro.
Crayon
Member
That won't happen until someone figures out how to sell it.
E-Cat
Member
Oh god, I just had the thought of PS5 multiplatform games being crippled due to forced parity to the Jaguar baseline until 2025.
GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
Jesus I knew this thread got bad but this is next level manure.
It's just very sad to see the salty jelly dripping off their face, and how hard they try to put themselves in a comfy spot that Pro cannot be mentioned in the same sentence with Scorpio ..seeing all this unfold it's quite entertaining aswell.
Crayon
Member
Games that choose to do that will suffer in comparison to those that choose to move on past cross gen. There will be room for both cross gen and next gen games five years from now.
You think this is the case Matt?
Liabe Brave
Member
Sure they will, they're in there specifically to help. But they're also present in standard Xbox One. So it's not a new thing that will suddenly open performance levels previously unreachable.
Actually, they were between 55% and 70%, according to Digital Foundry. But my point about a CPU bound state wasn't about that version, but about the ultra one. See below.
And that 88% is about the same GPU utilization as Forza on standard Xbox One. Why did they stop there for the original release, even though higher settings were still available? The only answer that makes sense is "because putting anything higher would hurt framerate", or in other words they were bound by something other than GPU performance. By far the most likely answer, for both standard One and Scorpio in the same position, is a CPU bound state.
That's just backwards compatibility, and wasn't the stuff I was talking about. I was referring to another statement by Mr. Spencer, which sounds like a wider mission statement, and isn't restricted solely to an Xbox One family:
Phil Spencer said:
They can unlock a new generation of CPU performance in PS5 without leaving the base behind. All that's required is backwards compatibility, which no one is suggesting they abandon. It's forward compatibility, which Microsoft has seemingly promised, and Sony explicitly denied, that would hinder tech advancements.
Yes, exactly like PS4 Pro. This is a feature of Polaris.
Aside from clock speed/CU count, we have yet to actually hear of any hardware customizations specific to Scorpio, for CPU or GPU. That info is said to be coming.
Jaguar Victory
Member
They've exceeded desktop 480. 4 extra CUs and much more and faster RAM.
E-Cat
Member
But what if MS forces all the games that appear on the next-gen Xbox to be Scorpio compatible until some indeterminate time in the future? I doubt it's going to happen, but I wouldn't put it past them.
We get enough new games. A tech site doing a first look on the specs isnt a place for announcing games,
Maybe so that no matter the circumstance the system will always maintain a 60fps refresh rate. DF said that the X1 ranges between 80s and 90s.
I genuinely don't get what you are trying to say here. Forza Motorsports are always rock solid in terms of framerate and that is done by leaving headroom for the absolute worst case scenarios. That's simply how its done. It is not CPU bound.
Risk Breaker
Member
AFAIK only 8GB are usable by games out of those 12GB.
That RAM and BW is also shared by the CPU unlike on a 480. I get 278 GB/s on mine also.
GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
Also Dynamic weather was added which adds a lot of more CPU usage needed which is why Forza 6 didn't have it when it released. There's a lot of CPU room for Turn 10. Bring on Forza 7
Beerman462
Member
They get free Hype and press out of leaks too, but this way they get to control it. The biggest advantage of revealing the specs like this and now is to shut dwn the Zen speculation.
Jaguar Victory
Member
You think it wouldn't have been picked up otherwise? SMDH "Free hype and press"
Poodle Cannon
Member
Pretty nice hardware upgrade over the xbone, will be getting day one, unless they go cray cray and go over 500 bucks. I thought about getting the pro, but what can I say, most of my pals on console are on the xbone, and didn't see the need to upgrade my ps4 to pro status. I'm looking forward to see what fun things may happen with scorpio. I just want more crispy frame rates in general really, one can hope.
Jaguar Victory
Member
You must have that thing OCd because it's 224GB/s standard.
Colbert
Banned
4:1
Risk Breaker
Member
It's a 480 XFX, VRAM running at 2175 MHz. Could probably push it to 2200 since I've never had stability problems, but it's not really worth it.
224 GB/s is for the 4GB model which uses slower VRAM.
Crayon
Member
I don't think they are in a position to force anyone to do anything. Least of which handicap a game trying to compete on the open market across three or four platforms against other games. They could try. Sure.
anothertech
Member
Yes, I mean 4K/60fps wise. 4k res is a lot more demanding than 40% extra power at 60fps. But halo works some magic with that dynamic res, even if the textures suffered a bit.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
As a rough comparison, just ran Forza Apex on PC (reference 980Ti at stock clocks) at 2160p, ultra settings. Entire race was around 55% GPU usage with no drops below 60fps.
If they made it forward compatible but didn't mandate it, then publishers would naturally transition across as the older user base slowly stops actively buying the games.
Jaguar Victory
Member
That's a good upclock over 1750mhz standard of the stock memory. Have you been running 4k or 1080p?
The problem is MS have already aid they are moving away from generations so for the next 3 years games have to work on Xbox One/S/Scorpio and then in 2019 developers are instructed to use Scorpio as the base line then in 2020 you get the slimline version of Scorpio. Then in 2022 you get the Taurus, in 2025 MS instructs developers to do the baseline of the Taurus.
Essentially you have Xbox(2017), Xbox S(2020), Xbox(2022), etc.
Or PS5, PS5 Pro, PS6, etc.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
That's the 4GB variant. The 8GB RX 480 is 256GB/s. He has his at 2175MHz memory clock. 2250MHz is the wall. 1390MHz CPU core speed is that max I've hit.
Jaguar Victory
Member
That's cool. That's without 4k textures right? 980Ti/1070 level performance is great for a console at $500 USD. I'm excited man.
Jaguar Victory
Member
Gotcha. Makes sense.
Risk Breaker
Member
That's the 4GB 480's default clock.
The standard 8GB 480 runs by default at 2000 MHz. Most non-reference versions can be easily clocked at 2100, and many to 2200.
I have 3 screens, 1080p 60hz, 1080p 144hz and 4k 60hz. I usually play on the 144hz one (BF1, Overwatch) since it plays a lot better.
Also, I'm running at 1300 MHz (1288 factory OC) which is pretty much 6 TFLOPS, so pretty much a Scorpio. I've tried playing in 4k but the performance is not good enough for me.
Xbox games aren't beholden to Scorpio spec. Xbox games start at the PC level and are adjusted down from there. We can agree there is nothing holding back PC progress right. I mean Nvidia just announced a new $1200 gpu.
Phil said something interesting about what indicators he would look for when deciding on future hardware after Scorpio. Is it 8K tvs? 580hz tvs? A breakthrough in AR/VR headsets?
What would be the reason for a PS5 from Sony if PS4/Pro continues to outsell the competition. For better or worse PS4 Pro is Sony answer to 4k. Sure there are some shook fans pulling the PS5 card for console war purposes, but there is no financial or technical reason for Sony come out with a new system 2 years after Pro.
E-Cat
Member
There is nothing holding back PC progress? Of course there is, and that is consoles. Hardware progress is constant, but even on PC the software is still restricted in practice by the console spec. This is common knowledge and has been discussed in this thread, too.
Resolution bumps are not the only reason to do a new console generation, that is almost ridiculously reductionist. Generally, when you're approaching an order of magnitude improvement in power, new paradigms become possible whether that's new gameplay scenarios or different types of rendering or physics based effects. Boosting resolution at the expense of everything else is detrimental to these advances, in fact. I hope that we stay at 4K for at least a decade (except in VR, duh).
gundamkyoukai
Member
Console don't hold back anything .
If anything they are what push some devs to use the hardware better since they have a bigger user base.
Games are to expensive to make to target only high end PC gamers .
So money and user base is what hold back PC not consoles .
It going to be interesting to see how MS market this system .
E-Cat
Member
We're actually agreeing, just expressing it in 'the glass is half full/empty' ways.
Liabe Brave
Member
Scorpio does not provide anywhere near the performance of a 980Ti in this comparison. On Scorpio, the game hit 88% GPU utilization; on 980Ti, only 55%.
We absolutely cannot agree about that. The very reason high-end PC rigs can hit such high settings, resolutions, and framerates even in the newest games is because they're not being challenged by the basic framework. For example, PC Ghost Recon Wildlands runs at 3x the framerate or resolution of the most powerful console version (Pro), while also having higher graphical settings across the board. Without having to get a Titan.
Two years? Almost none. But in three or four years, there's plenty of reason for them to do so.
Also Dynamic weather was added which adds a lot of more CPU usage needed which is why Forza 6 didn't have it when it released. There's a lot of CPU room for Turn 10. Bring on Forza 7
Why do you say dynamic weather was added for CPU reasons? Are we expecting the Xbox One version to not support that? They said "no one left behind" which would go against adding new modes they can't even experience.
Linus on the WAN Show has an AMD employee on air while he talks about Scoprio news: https://youtu.be/qUwc6EvG0gw?t=15m38s
from 15m
from 15m
transformer
Member
According to digital foundry the performance of Scorpio was slightly better than a 1070 in the same game conditions (full grid and rain) and ultra settings at 4K. It's hard to directly compare though as optimized consoles always seem to punch above their weight. However, the more pertinent comparison is to the Xbox one to give us an idea of how games will scale from that. The Forza tech indicates scaling games to 4K on Xbox one assets is realistic and leaves much overhead to provide 4K assets and other bells and whistles.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Not really a new mode though. I mean doesn't the Pro have this same proclamation for Pro to PS4 users? I've seen many graphical features added to Pro games that I think would effect gameplay for me, as I've experience it coming from consoles to PC versions of the same game. I think I've seen improved lighting and the addition of lighting effects and AA and all sorts of things.
But none of them as big as dynamic weather though. I think this is actually an interesting subject to discuss. Like, what did MS mean when they said "No gamer left behind"? Do they just mean that they will be able to play the same games at expected performance and graphical options as always on the lower end system or do they mean that the higher end system cannot have anything new like dynamic weather included in the game? Where is the line then? Dynamic lighting? Ray tracing? MSAA? Like, what is seen as something that couldn't be added because they would leave the others behind? Literal story content? What if the Scorp version had better AI or something?
I think that the statement that "No gamer will be left behind" is a little vague in this sense.
kostacurtas
Member
Every setting on ultra? Forza Apex has 8xMSAA on ultra but the Forza Scorpio tech demo used EQAA.
No, I think Sony has been clear that features have to match. They're even the diehards on multiplayer framerates. Can you give an example?