If the problem is a lack of recognition for independent candidates, then the solution should be to drive awareness for those candidates and parties. That means campaigning, which -- given the number of registered independents in this country and the poor performance of independent candidates -- most independent voters are clearly anathema to doing.
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Pres Obama now doing $400k speeches for Wall Street
- Thread starter Meus Renaissance
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If the problem is a lack of recognition for independent candidates, then the solution should be to drive awareness for those candidates and parties. That means campaigning, which -- given the number of registered independents in this country and the poor performance of independent candidates -- most independent voters are clearly anathema to doing.
Veritigo_X
Member
Most people need a reason to vote for 3rd parties besides "they aren't one of the major two parties." Right now they are a complete joke.
Lol. Dems won't win because Obama is giving a speech. If anything Democrats won't win because of folks that have so much wool in their eyes that they cannot recognize who the real enemy is. Gary Cohn actual Goldman Sachs CEO is the WH right now shaping policy for all us, yet you believe Obama giving speeches will lead to loss, because the alternative is what?
Inferno313
Banned
I feel that the ones who take stances like "... fuck them Dems! I'm voting Indie/Rep next time!!!" are having way too good of a life and are starkly locked away from reality. People are here littering starving to death. Losing jobs, on the verge of losing medical care. Women are still fighting for the right to be treated like a fucking human being. Meanwhile the orangist man on the planet is shitting all over what is right and decent of a human being left and right and got nothing fucking done since he has taken office.
Byakuya769
Member
I'm beginning to suspect that some people are in their happiest place when they're angry and losing elections.
You had millions of self-proclaimed progressives vote for Stein and Johnson. What goals did that achieve for the progressive cause?
Moreover, how in the fucking world did a libertarian candidate become a figurehead for the progressive cause?
He won't need to- he's doing it right now.
This thread has just told me this country doesn't deserve Obama. Find another champion. Because after the 8 years he's had to put up with you guys still won't let him breathe. It's not worth it Barack, let the self righteous, puritans find some one else to take the lead. You did your service.
poppedcollar69
Member
Don't hate the playa, hate the game
SmackCrackleNPop
Member
I don't have an issue with this. He will probably speak for free or for cheap for certain organizations. Wall street? Fuck them, they have money, pay up.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
im pretty sure Johnson is not a progressive. i didnt vote for Stein but im starting to think i should have. For me the days of going along to get along are over.
thiscoldblack
Unconfirmed Member
All according to keikaku.
keikaku means plan.
keikaku means plan.
FreedomFighter
Member
The two of you, see response to Carpe Libertatem here for examples on why I don't think there will be support. Even if Perez can't vote, he's still chair of DNC. And not showing support for it just shows it probably won't go far. We'll see though. But I'm sure I'll be disappointed.
I concede on the losing members point, I misremembered this poll below that was about popularity, not members.
The poll I'm referencing is the NBC/WSJ poll which shows Dems less popular than GOP at the moment. So I was way off, had nothing to do with members. I think the hardline Dems frightened of Trump are energized but not the base as a whole, which the poll suggests
That's not why I'm apathetic. I've explained why, you're not reading. I don't care about you. Not worried about if you're hurting or not. What are you even talking about? It sounds like it YOU who didn't get what they wanted...
Don't make things up, you're a better reader than that. I gave my reasons for not supporting Dems because they're too neoliberal and corporatist and loyal to donors over voters. That's not "I don't support Dems because Obama gave a speech". Don't say silly things. As for the rest of what you're saying, you can read this. Applies to you too. I'm just going to ignore posts like this for now on.
I think they'd have a good chance if they were given a fair shot... I'll vote for them or stay home if the Dems give me no reason to vote for them - which they probably won't.
GurgleBot20
Member
Just a quick reminder that the current President is using his position to funnel taxpayer money into his own businesses.
This is a total non-story.
This is a total non-story.
Stein the anti-vaxxer. I would have never wasted my time with her.
pokeystaples
Banned
I don't get it either... I could not figure out why this thread was so long.
A former president getting paid to speak somewhere is way more fucking important, though.
The alt-left, most of whom have no historical context for anything nor the ability to understand nuance, have heard that taking money for doing speeches is inherently bad because Lord Sanders told them so repeatedly.
Apparently Obama was supposed to live some sort of material-free existence like a monk or something.
Which is a great look for the far left; being outraged over a black dude making money while defending a blonde white chick's right to spread Nazism.
I've only been skimming most of the discussion.
If I were to be frank, I find it incredibly bitter that last week so many people were eager to absolve Bernie Sanders of his support of an anti-choice candidate, and furthermore bend over backwards to justify the anti-choice candidate as a necessity in a 50-state strategy. The stance of anti-choice is inherently one that increases the inequality of women and strips them of basic human rights, but that apparently is an area in which principles can be bent and warped.
Yet some of these same people would be the first to come out and scream murder when Obama accepts a speaking fee that will likely be funneled into his efforts at redistricting. As if that money wouldn't be a necessity in the grand strategy of 50-state. As if Obama accepting a speaking fee is a moral wrong (but anti-choice is okay!). Compromise with human rights is okay and necessary, but compromise with economic issues is not; the hypocrisy and selfishness of this position is befuddling.
Moreover it feels exhausting that speaking fees weren't problems to be vocal aboutuntil a woman or a black man dared to accept them. The same old tale again.
When it comes to actual policy deliberations and contest of ideas, those topics don't garner half the attention as 'celebrities' do. Inadvertently all the attention placed on Obama accepting this speaking fee just demonstrates celebrity culture and poor decisionmaking based on that culture. Trump is set to unveil his tax plan today and Congress has to pass a budget by Friday. But the topics that garner that most agitation are the ones about Sanders, Hillary, or Obama.
If I were to be frank, I find it incredibly bitter that last week so many people were eager to absolve Bernie Sanders of his support of an anti-choice candidate, and furthermore bend over backwards to justify the anti-choice candidate as a necessity in a 50-state strategy. The stance of anti-choice is inherently one that increases the inequality of women and strips them of basic human rights, but that apparently is an area in which principles can be bent and warped.
Yet some of these same people would be the first to come out and scream murder when Obama accepts a speaking fee that will likely be funneled into his efforts at redistricting. As if that money wouldn't be a necessity in the grand strategy of 50-state. As if Obama accepting a speaking fee is a moral wrong (but anti-choice is okay!). Compromise with human rights is okay and necessary, but compromise with economic issues is not; the hypocrisy and selfishness of this position is befuddling.
Moreover it feels exhausting that speaking fees weren't problems to be vocal aboutuntil a woman or a black man dared to accept them. The same old tale again.
When it comes to actual policy deliberations and contest of ideas, those topics don't garner half the attention as 'celebrities' do. Inadvertently all the attention placed on Obama accepting this speaking fee just demonstrates celebrity culture and poor decisionmaking based on that culture. Trump is set to unveil his tax plan today and Congress has to pass a budget by Friday. But the topics that garner that most agitation are the ones about Sanders, Hillary, or Obama.
The Greek Freak
Member
The way his admin handled the banking crisis is much more damning but not as good of a headline.
For all of my criticisms of Obama I'd still take the worst aspects of the Obama admin over our current dumpster fire.
Good god, people are insanely naive and don't understand the concept of "opportunity cost". No wonder "the left" lack so much political influence, if they are so stupid that they'll cannibalize one of their own for the high crime of getting paid what he is worth.
If Barack Obama were to give a speech tomorrow to NARAL, or some climate change NGO, or Boy Scouts of America, he would also be getting paid somewhere in the ballpark of $400,000. Why? Because that is what a similarly sized chunk of the time of a popular and well spoken President's life is worth. That doesn't mean that Barack Obama can't also be doing things that further the progressive cause. I don't know why leftists are trying to insist that he should remain a pauper for the rest of his life.
If Barack Obama were to give a speech tomorrow to NARAL, or some climate change NGO, or Boy Scouts of America, he would also be getting paid somewhere in the ballpark of $400,000. Why? Because that is what a similarly sized chunk of the time of a popular and well spoken President's life is worth. That doesn't mean that Barack Obama can't also be doing things that further the progressive cause. I don't know why leftists are trying to insist that he should remain a pauper for the rest of his life.
Crimson_Gold
Member
But purity tests.
This speech means nothing. ACA is under attack again. But people are in here losing their shit over a paid speech. Priorities are all fucked up.
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
I'd be mad if he was getting paid to do these while president. Go ahead and make money. Not like he's talking to the kkk or something.
Then your voice is irrelevant, sadly.
The politics we have is what we have, and you can't ignore history. If you won't work towards something better, realize that this is more about your ego than actually accomplishing any change you purportedly stand for.
Stein has no ground game, no organization, no strategy to elect people to lower offices to build a party. She does come along every four years to prey on those dissatisfied on the left to fund her "job".
Cause in point, imaging if she worked within the Democratic party and wielded a coalition as a means to push the party left?
Nah, that's work and progress. Easier to take your money every four years for false promises like the snake oil bitch she is. She's very well edcuated. She knows what's she's doing.
I know you don't care about me nor do I care about selfish people like yourself. Everything has to fit in your self imposed utopia or you runaway and vote for an independent candidate. Fine, you can do that, It's your right but at least I can say I'm not a hypocrite.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
That's what always gets me "Dems aren't pure enough, I'm voting an even less 'pure' person." Unless Wifi poisoning and anti-science stances are important.
Miles Quaritch
Member
And hiring people from Wall Street directly in positions of power, positions where they can write policy that will shape the US for the next four years and possibly beyond.
I have to believe some people are using this as an excuse to vent other frustrations they have with Obama and the Dems in general.
Macho Madness
Member
just the funders of it is all
MåndagSöndag
Banned
This is how modern day corruption works. Do favors when in office, get cushy jobs when you retire.
Beer Monkey
Member
He's never once declared bankruptcy.
He's a great fucking businessman. He should be president.
He's a great fucking businessman. He should be president.
I have no clue.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Wall Street isn't one entity and not everyone that works at these companies are rich pieces of crap that many of you make them out to be. A lot of them are individuals like myself that are just getting by and trying to move up who would love nothing more than to hear a former president speak.
Also, why is it glossed over or rather written in stone that the money he'll be receiving from this speech and others like it, including his book deal, will not be used for a greater good? My understanding is that he intends to donate a large portion of it to his Obama Foundation which is looking to build the Obama Presidential Center in Chicago and help support infrastructure.
He also has a history of being philanthropic, having donated over $1 million as president to charity. Why are we painting him with broad strokes as if he has a history of being an unsympathetic and selfish?
He's in the perfect position to leverage his fame to acquire wealth that can then be used to help others. I'd love nothing more than to be famous and get paid for being a keynote speaker. I dream about being rich enough to use that money to help others. Why isn't Obama given that same benefit of the doubt?
Holy Order Sol
Member
Private citizen, can get paid whatever the fuck people are eady to offer.
You shouldn't be apathetic. If you're that incensed about the Democratic Party, then you should campaign and organize for independent candidates that better represent your interests -- particularly in local races, where third-party and independent candidates: a) have a far better chance of being elected, and b) will have a far greater immediate impact on your day-to-day life.
It's April 2017. If you've already decided you are probably not going to vote for a Democrat in November 2020 (and, I assume, in any other election between now and then), then you've got plenty of time to begin researching other candidates you like and volunteering time, money, and effort to get them attention.
FreedomFighter said:
If you don't think independent candidates are being given a fair shot, then do something about it! Fairness is not going to conjure itself out of thin air. Political campaigns are born from grassroots organizing. Grassroots -- that means people like you getting involved. If you don't get involved in pushing the Democratic or independent candidates you want to see in a race, and are already committing to just staying home, then you are part of the problem that you're complaining about.
Big Baybee
Member
MåndagSöndag;234752413 said:
That's not what's happening here, though.
Frozenprince
Banned
The CEO of Exxon Mobile is fucking secretary of state.
People don't talk enough about how terrifying that is because he's been one of the few that's looked marginally competent.
But that shit is fucking terrifying.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Lmao total shill with zero shame for the minorities and whites he screwed by not offering enough help following the Great Recession. Held virtually​ no one except chumps and little fish accountable either. Sad.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Obama's presidential speeches tend to clock in at 120-140 WPM. Going with 140 WPM, that's 8,400 words in an hour's speech, or about $4.76 per word.
Macho Madness
Member
i mean, basically. he was always cushy with wall street and they're now paying him back.
I think you missed the sarcasm in my post. It's ok though. We are on the same side.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Obamas one of if not the most charismatic speech giver around, itd be a shame of he let his talent go to waste.
Plus with all that money he could put it towards a charity or nonprofit for real change and get more accomplished than every complainer here combined.
Plus with all that money he could put it towards a charity or nonprofit for real change and get more accomplished than every complainer here combined.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Oh, lol. Didn't realize it.
I think it's supposed to send a signal. But does it ever?
GutsOfThor
Member
You have to remember that if you make over a certain amount of money in this country, you are automatically pure unfiltered evil.
Big Baybee
Member
Who is Wall Street?
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