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[-Mutsukki-]

Nah; the original was definitely bad, but the localization was putrid. I've come to hate Phoenix Wright for conditioning an entre generation to happily eat garbage whitewashing.

Woah you're getting VERY ahead of yourself there. Phoenix Wright is absolutely fine the way it is, even if a bit silly. You can't expect people to get japanese name puns, so making it in Japan with very american names would be odd. I mean, do you get particularly angry that Pokémon has localized names too?

Whitewashing is way more serious than localizing some dumb names

 

[LordKano]

Some of you guys in this thread is why NOA is auch garbage.

Treehouse is one of the best localization houses in the whole industry. People should be grateful that they're localizing the games themselves instead of outsourcing and resulting in a poor, litterate translation.

 

[Misuta]

so, which of the localized languages actually preserve the way it was written in japanese? i thought they were gonna tell us in the OP instead of just making us guess.

The Russian version.

 

[Kyuur]

I wouldn't say they removed his characterization, you still get a lot from cutscenes and NPC dialogue options. Nothing in the quest logs shown really tells us anything that couldn't be infered.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Didn't NoA completely change Marina's personality in Splatoon 2? I understand that some things need to be changed in a localization but this seemed unnecessary.

Aren't you thinking of Marie? Unless they did the same for Marina because she holds the same spot

 

[Madao]

Didn't NoA completely change Marina's personality in Splatoon 2? I understand that some things need to be changed in a localization but this seemed unnecessary.

was it a change like DJ Octavio in Splatoon 1? people also said Marie was changed in Splatoon 1's localization.

also, care to show some examples?

 

[entremet]

I wish people would use more precise language. If you're talking about localizations, you want to mention the localization group.

NOA makes a lot of non-localization decisions that may irritate people, but don't lump Treehouse great efforts into NOA as a whole. Treehouse doesn't allocate SNES mini inventory, for example.

 

[Mr-Joker]

So they remove any characterization and add meme in other Zelda games, how lame.

I mean would it be neat if they made the English version in 1st person? Sure. Does it really add all that much? Not really.

It does as it gives a greater insight to how Link is feeling rather than being a bland blank state which made no sense since we couldn't rename Link.

 

[Skittzo0413]

I vastly, vastly prefer the third person descriptions in the localization to be honest. I don't play Zelda games to read how Link feels about things, I play them to insert myself into Link's role.

Same with most games, especially RPGs... that's kinda why I did not like Fallout 4, why am I saying something completely different from what I selected?

 

[7Th]

Woah you're getting VERY ahead of yourself there. Phoenix Wright is absolutely fine the way it is, even if a bit silly. You can't expect people to get japanese name puns, so making it in Japan with very american names would be odd. I mean, do you get particularly angry that Pokémon has localized names too?

Whitewashing is way more serious than localizing some dumb names

They're turning Japanese characters in a Japanese context into Americans in an American context, it's definitely whitewashing. Why does it matter that there are no actors portraying them? I'm sure people wrote negatively about Disney changing the race of half of the Big Hero 6 cast.

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

Yeah I think it's come to a point where expecting anything other than 'Is NoA just pure trash or what?' within the first 5 comments of a thread involving anything they've done is expecting too much from a lot of users on this site.

Granted I don't play most of the games they localise or have to deal with the NES/SNES Classics stuff but this at its heart is a changing of descriptions from 1st to 3rd person and it's treated as indefensible and another inexcusable thing to add to a very long list.

Is it my ignorance of this company or is it just hyperbole from a few overly enthusiastic people?

EDIT: and yeah Mr Incrediboy is right too, NoA is a big company and there should be more of an effort to distinguish the things they do, which I did not manage to do in my initial comment.

 

[Star Orpheus]

was it a change like DJ Octavio in Splatoon 1? people also said Marie was changed in Splatoon 1's localization.

also, care to show some examples?

Sorry I can't remember where I saw it right now and since i don't read Japanese I'm going off second hand experience.

Just what i heard she's depicted as being more shy and nicer to Pearl, while the localization apparently made her more sarcastic and meaner.

Again don't have the game yet and was going off something I read, so if I was wrong I apologize.

 

[entremet]

They're turning Japanese characters in a Japanese context into Americans in an American context, it's definitely whitewashing. Why does it matter that there are no actors portraying them? I'm sure people wrote negatively about Disney changing the race of half of the Big Hero 6 cast.

Phoenix Wright may have done just a good with the Japanese references intact. I always found that decision rather bizarre, especially since Americans have seen stuff like DBZ and the like with many Japanese cultural references. But we will never know lol.

 

[NSESN]

Sorry I can't remember where I saw it right now and since i don't read Japanese I'mgoing of second hand experience.

Just what i heard she's depicted as being more shy and nicer to Pearl, while the localization apparently made her more sarcastic and meaner.

Again don't have the game yet and was going off something I read, so if I was wrong I apologize.

Just be careful of giving misinformation. It is very dangerous in this day and age.

Phoenix Wright may have done just a good with the Japanese references intact. I always found that decision rather bizarre. But we will never know lol.

I really doubt it would. Besides the game is already goofy, having a goofy translation is a + in my book.

 

[Berordn]

was it a change like DJ Octavio in Splatoon 1? people also said Marie was changed in Splatoon 1's localization.

also, care to show some examples?

The only change for Marina that I'm aware of is that in Japanese she uses honorifics when speaking to Pearl, I guess implying that she looks up to her. In English she comes off as a bit snarky, but she obviously still respects her.

Not being a Japanese speaker I can't say if there's more to it than that, but if that's all it's honestly pretty inoffensive.

 

[ToonLink]

That's a shame... I think the first person text is more charming. :/

 

[Tokieda]

This is complete false alarm, likely written by someone who has limited understanding of Japanese. There is nothing in the source text that indicates it is written in the first person.

 

[entremet]

Just be careful of giving misinformation. It is very dangerous in this day and age.


I really doubt it would. Besides the game is already goofy, having a goofy translation is a + in my book.

Is more things other the localization (Tokyo to LA and Ramen to burgers)?

Regardless, I don't see it as whitewashing.

 

[Star Orpheus]

The only change for Marina that I'm aware of is that in Japanese she uses honorifics when speaking to Pearl, I guess implying that she looks up to her. In English she comes off as a bit snarky, but she obviously still respects her.

Not being a Japanese speaker I can't say if there's more to it than that, but if that's all it's honestly pretty inoffensive.

Alright sounds like it might not have been as bad as they made it look. Sorry if that was wrong but I hadn't really heard about it much so I was curious how accurate it was.

Again my apologies. I'm not trying to start anything.

On Link I would have actually liked to see from his perspective a little so I'm kinda sad they changed it.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Phoenix Wright may have done just a good with the Japanese references intact. I always found that decision rather bizarre, especially since Americans have seen stuff like DBZ and the like with many Japanese cultural references. But we will never know lol.

That's not even remotely similar. The thing with Phoenix Wright is that literally every name is a pun. You'd have that completely lost if they kept it intact. I rather have what we do now even if it's very silly. The only way I could think of it being better was if they just stuck with the names and kept them in Japan, but honestly, it's really not that grave at all.

 

[entremet]

That's not even remotely similar. The thing with Phoenix Wright is that literally every name is a pun. You'd have that completely lost if they kept it intact. I rather have what we do now even if it's very silly. The only way I could think of it being better was if they just stuck with the names and kept them in Japan, but honestly, it's really not that grave at all.

Ah I didn't know that. Japanese puns are rather tricky. I just thought it was the locations and the food.

 

[Nairume]

The only change for Marina that I'm aware of is that in Japanese she uses honorifics when speaking to Pearl, I guess implying that she looks up to her. In English she comes off as a bit snarky, but she obviously still respects her.

The honorifics also probably tie into Pearl's japanese name being what it is, which wouldn't have really made sense anywhere else without the pun in place.

 

[Sapiens]

Zelda fans can only handle so much change at a time. Maybe next time, NoA will deem them ready.

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

Yeah I think the Ace Attorney discussion here is going a bit too far lol. The initial ones were done a long time ago when successes like Danganronpa and Persona oversees would've been seen as inconceivable, and I'm sure now that the world's a different place they would embrace the Japanese side of AA more were they to be localised now for the first time, I'm sure it's just for tradition's sake now and trying to one-up the goofy names resulting in Paul Atishon lol.

It's not whitewashing.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

So that’s why. It’s indeed a really big horse. It trampled whatever kind of monster in its way with ease when it galloped. That was really cool.
When it was brought back to Straia (by me), he was very surprised.

This isn't characterization.

It's shit translation.

 

[Eolz]

You shouldn't just blame NoA, as I believe NoE translation is similar in that regard.

I assumed so, but I'm not sure as some of the comments on the reddit post suggest some European versions of the game preserved the 1st person.

The Russian version.

Was gonna say, yeah, apparently the russian version and possibly some other versions have the characterization closer, if not similar, to the original japanese version.
It's disappointing, but the english localization was good too at least, nothing weird or out of place unlike some other games before that...

 

[Various Artists]

I know most will disagree me but I don't think the changes really do much to change Link overall. To me it reads like that sort of slight copy, paste change you would do in 8th grade so it wasn't exactly plagiarism if you get my drift?

Source: Joe died in 1995.
You: In 1995, Joe died.

Its not like the the Japanese versions opens up a whole new game filled with exposition and grief, with link battling inner demons and self doubt or something and how his trials helped conquer them all.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

This is complete false alarm, likely written by someone who has limited understanding of Japanese. There is nothing in the source text that indicates it is written in the first person.

自分が必ず来てくれると信じて。。。!

Is pretty clearly about Link no?

This isn't characterization.

It's shit translation.

I see these all the time but that's beyond the point. Treehouse could have gone the first person route and given us a very good translation, I don't think they're giving their example as the best choice

 

[AlexFlame116]

Sheesh some of you guys get absolutely bonkers when it comes to NoA and Treehouse. It's fine. The translation looks good. If anything I can take it more seriously. Besides, like it or not Link is supposed to be a blank slate. Sure he has his own quirks and personality but at the end it's still supposed to be an extension of the player.

As for Fates, I say the translation made it better (with the exception of some of the Social Links). Especially when you take the fan translated one and compare it to the official English translation.

 

[Slime Scholar]

If they kept that, I'd have actually bothered to read the quest log. The extra examples in the tumblr post, in particular, are kinda charming. I get that it's not for everyone, and the characterization isn't that deep, but I don't see the harm in them just leaving it in.

 

[Arkeband]

I hate to be the one to tell you this but simply making the same observations in first person instead of third person isn't "characterization". Bloodborne's item descriptor has more characterization talking about pebbles.

 

[Kalor]

I don't think the change would have added much to Link for me. Nothing in those examples is special and was shown through his actions or animations instead.

 

[NSESN]

The best thing about AAI2 fan translation was that it was more like the official translations instead of being literal. It also have many of my favoutite name puns in the series.

 

[……forgetit]

Didn't NoA completely change Marina's personality in Splatoon 2? I understand that some things need to be changed in a localization but this seemed unnecessary.

Well, don't shoot the messenger, but having Marina submissive and constantly looking up to the other half of the duo, a member of the ethnic majority, has different connotations in the west.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I won't say the 3rd person is better but it seems like people getting upset that things were changed at all rather than getting upset about the magnitude of the changes, which seems pretty par for the course

 

[AmayaPapaya]

I kind of like it. It reminds me of Olimar's logs in Pikmin 1-3. This is certainly much better than the cutscenes in the game, which deserve far more scrutiny. Link feels so out of place, and I just get the feeling of "silent protagonist intesifies" the whole time LOL.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

I hate to be the one to tell you this but simply making the same observations in first person instead of third person isn't "characterization". Bloodborne's item descriptor has more characterization talking about pebbles.

Actually it is, a single change in perspective makes the text feel a lot more personal, and makes the remarks more relatable. There's some stuff that was removed too which is a bit sad.

 

[entremet]

Well, don't shoot the messenger, but having Marina submissive and constantly looking up to the other half of the duo, a member of the ethnic majority, has different connotations in the west.

And that's what localization is. It's not just translation. It seems the big beef with Treehouse is when they're not completely literal in their localizations, which kinda defeats their purpose.

But it seems that we're gonna get threads like these every big Treehouse game, making mountains outta molehills lol.

 

[tsab]

Yeah this is in NoE edition too

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I see these all the time but that's beyond the point. Treehouse could have gone the first person route and given us a very good translation, I don't think they're giving their example as the best choice

I disagree that 2nd person POV was a bad decision and I strongly disagree with the insinuation that the localized Quest Log is a bad translation job.

RPG quest logs frequently use an impersonal voice, eschewing specific pointers like 私 or 僕 and using phrasing like what is seen in the .jp script examples provided, a voice analogous in English to "(You) are about to do the exciting quest." or "Let's get on with the exciting quest" instead of specifically "I will do the exciting quest" or "Link will do the exciting quest." The 2nd person voice in the NoA translation is wholly appropriate and doesn't rob Link of anything.

 

[Astral Dog]

The worst was still the VA shame they changed the logs

The Japanese certainly is written more casually, but I'm not seeing anything overt to suggest that it's Link himself and not someone else. Not sure who it'd be but it seems like jumping to conclusions since the writer doesn't refer to themself with any pronoun but 自分


Yes it is, you could use it to mean "your own"

Who else finally got the Master Sword? 🤔

 

[Tokieda]

自分が必ず来てくれると信じて。。。!

Is pretty clearly about Link no?

Yes, about Link, but not in the first person. 自分 doesn't mean 'I', 'you' or 'he'/'her' - it could mean any of those depending on the reference.

 

[FinalAres]

I didn't play in English, but I still felt like BoTW characterized Link quite a bit, more than the previous games, notably through the dialogs choices.

I honestly don't see how anyone can feel that way. Link is a total non character, and I would have much preferred him to have had a personality instead of being a weird mute avatar for me.

 

[BaconHat]

Really strange they they decided to change the viewpoint of the quest log.
Shame too, getting more dialogue, even informal, from link brings us closer to moving on from the blank slate version.

Sheesh some of you guys get absolutely bonkers when it comes to NoA and Treehouse. It's fine. The translation looks good. If anything I can take it more seriously. Besides, like it or not Link is supposed to be a blank slate. Sure he has his own quirks and personality but at the end it's still supposed to be an extension of the player.

As for Fates, I say the translation made it better (with the exception of some of the Social Links). Especially when you take the fan translated one and compare it to the official English translation.

The real problem with the Fates translation is not the quality (The officially translated version is better, no doubt), but that they never translated the last two character dialogue DLC. We lost content compared to the JPN version.

 

[Star Orpheus]

And that's what localization is. It's not just translation. It seems the big beef with Treehouse is when they're not completely literal in their localizations, which kinda defeats their purpose.

But it seems that we're gonna get threads like these every big Treehouse game, making mountains outta molehills lol.

Ok my main issue was did they make her so sarcastic or was she like that orginaly. Because if they did change her personality because they thought there would be unfortunate implications I feel like they could've have done that without making her Marie 2.0.

Of course that's only IF her personality was changed because people in this thread are giving me conflicting answers.

The real problem with the Fates translation is not the quality (The translated version is better, no doubt), but that they never translated the last two character dialogue DLC. We lost content comparared to the JPN version.

Oh man I forgot about that. Man that had a lot of fun dialogue in it too.

 

[7Th]

That's not even remotely similar. The thing with Phoenix Wright is that literally every name is a pun. You'd have that completely lost if they kept it intact. I rather have what we do now even if it's very silly. The only way I could think of it being better was if they just stuck with the names and kept them in Japan, but honestly, it's really not that grave at all.

The names in Dragon Ball are all jokes or relatively meaningful, too? I mean, people use Zeno instead of King of Everything.

 

[Weltall Zero]

As far as I can remember, Jibun means "oneself" or "by oneself". It can mean "myself" as much as "yourself" or "himself". The quest logs seem to be written to be purposely ambiguous whether they were written by Link or a third person, something that is obviously impossible in English; the English translators simply went with the safest route.

I am the first to condemn shoddy translations (of which there are no shortages), but the OP is extremely misleading about this particular case.

 

[AlexFlame116]

The real problem with the Fates translation is not the quality (The officially translated version is better, no doubt), but that they never translated the last two character dialogue DLC. We lost content compared to the JPN version.

Oh well yeah of course. That one was a big slap in the face. It's why I haven't bought the second pack of DLC for the game.

 

[Ridley327]

The names in Dragon Ball are all jokes or relatively meaningful, too? I mean, people use Zeno instead of King of Everything.

Aren't most of the name puns in Dragon Ball based on English terms in the first place? There's really not that much to translate in those cases.

 

[Chaos17]

I don't understand why they removed it, that make feel sad.