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[MADGAME]

I have a question regarding pay for loot models.

Is it possible that behind the scenes, rare/better items are coded with increased drop percentages for paid crate over crates earned from gameplay? If I were a company trying to incentivize loot crate purchases, couldn't I condition you to learn that you get better items when you spend money on crates?

Sorry if the above is common knowledge, I don't have much experience with loot crate gambling systems.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Could you imagine running a race in which the winner used steroids or ran a shorter distance and then claimed it was fine because they felt like they didn't have as much time to train as everyone else?

How would that go?

What an awful mess we've ended up in here

could you imagine running a race with just a few people instead of a full field of competitors because the racetrack is locked behind a paywall?

and of course the average skill level of the few competitors is higher than other races because they're the ones most likely to pay?

 

[Saty]

The magnitude of the problem is exemplified with posters here wishing 'why can't it be only cosmetic'. That's how severe the case is. How about wishing that you can fucking actually only pay specifically for the item you want, you know like anything else in the world.

You should NEVER WANT lootboxes to be the ONLY way to get items, cosmetics included.

 

[joecanada]

How about the guy who plays for 40 hours a week while I am working and ends up with better gear than me?

If you look at it this way I shouldn't play at all for fear of anyone else having an advantage.

Cod should just sell nukes because some people practice more than me and they can get them anyway so who cares ?

 

[cyber_ninja]

Surprise Motherfuckers,

Spoiler

except it's not.

 

[The Last Wizard]

I do not mind loot boxes for games if IT IS JUST COSMETICS! God I wish companies would just understand that....

Here the thing, majority ain’t gonna stop at cosmetics. They’ll keep pushing cause you gave an inch.

 

[texhnolyze]

^ When you can also get those exact same bonuses by playing the game without buying crates, yes.

You can also get ultra rare 5 stars unit in F2P mobile games by playing the game without spending a dime.

Your point?

 

[Foxxsoxx]

So sad this game seems like they learned nothing from the last Battlefront.

 

[Alienous]

^ When you can also get those exact same bonuses by playing the game without buying crates, yes.



Battlefront 2015 had almost no grind (everything was unlocked by level 38, out of 50) and everyone was like "it's so shallow, not enough of a carrot! Add more progression!"

Now that there is much more progression it's like "there is too much of a grind, they should cut down on the progression!"

You don't make an experience less shallow by making it more of a grind, you make it less shallow by giving it depth (i.e. more content), which Battlefront 2 has done.

The problem with Battlefront 2015 wouldn't have been that everything was unlocked by level 38, but that you didn't unlock enough interesting and varied things.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I have a question regarding pay for loot models.

Is it possible that behind the scenes, rare/better items are coded with increased drop percentages for paid crate over crates earned from gameplay? If I were a company trying to incentivize loot crate purchases, couldn't I condition you to learn that you get better items when you spend money on crates?

Sorry if the above is common knowledge, I don't have much experience with loot crate gambling systems.

They hire mental health care professionals to help them figure out the best way to exploit gambling addictions in players (the way casinos do). They can do it however they see fit, the law hasn't caught up to this yet.

 

[The Faceless Master]

The magnitude of the problem is exemplified with posters here wishing 'why can't it be only cosmetic'. That's how severe the case is. How about wishing that you can fucking actually only pay specifically for the item you want, you know like anything else in the world.

You should NEVER WANT lootboxes to be the ONLY way to get items, cosmetics included.

some people just like lootboxes because they need an incentive to keep playing.

 

[thumb]

I have a question regarding pay for loot models.

Is it possible that behind the scenes, rare/better items are coded with increased drop percentages for paid crate over crates earned from gameplay? If I were a company trying to incentivize loot crate purchases, couldn't I condition you to learn that you get better items when you spend money on crates?

Sorry if the above is common knowledge, I don't have much experience with loot crate gambling systems.

Anything is possible because we don't have access to the source code.

 

[NullPointer]

They hire mental health care professionals to help them figure out the best way to exploit gambling addictions in players (the way casinos do). They can do it however they see fit, the law hasn't caught up to this yet.

This is the second time I've seen this brought up today with all of these lootbox threads. Are there any articles or videos that go in-depth on this, specifically with video games? Any details of how this is actually done and what kind of work-product these professionals deliver?

Is it possible that behind the scenes, rare/better items are coded with increased drop percentages for paid crate over crates earned from gameplay? If I were a company trying to incentivize loot crate purchases, couldn't I condition you to learn that you get better items when you spend money on crates?

Don't see why not. That would align with some of the dev-secrets we heard about a few weeks back about how game systems might cheat or provide extra incentive for first time players. Why not extra oomph for first time buyers? And routine buyers? As a programmer too I'd think the idea of varying in-game drop rates and reward tiers to hit particular sales metrics month to month, week to week or even day to day are feasible and wouldn't surprise me to find some games doing this.

 

[MADGAME]

They hire mental health care professionals to help them figure out the best way to exploit gambling addictions in players (the way casinos do). They can do it however they see fit, the law hasn't caught up to this yet.

Anything is possible because we don't have access to the source code.

Very helpful, thank you

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

This is the second time I've seen this brought up today with all of these lootbox threads. Are there any articles or videos that go in-depth on this, specifically with video games? Any details of how this is actually done and what kind of work-product these professionals deliver?

Danny O'Dwyer talked about it with Destiny in his gamespot days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g79dWuqXe5o

 

[Tovarisc]

I have a question regarding pay for loot models.

Is it possible that behind the scenes, rare/better items are coded with increased drop percentages for paid crate over crates earned from gameplay? If I were a company trying to incentivize loot crate purchases, couldn't I condition you to learn that you get better items when you spend money on crates?

Sorry if the above is common knowledge, I don't have much experience with loot crate gambling systems.

Is it possible? Absolutely

Is such things implemented? We have no reliable way to tell.

 

[Kill3r7]

This is the second time I've seen this brought up today with all of these lootbox threads. Are there any articles or videos that go in-depth on this, specifically with video games? Any details of how this is actually done and what kind of work-product these professionals deliver?

Not exactly but I think people are using articles like this to conflate various issues. http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/04/02/bungie-used-behavioral-psychology-to-make-destiny-appealing

 

[Durden77]

I had a ton of fun with the last Battlefront. My favorite multiplayer shooter of that year for sure. But I will be keeping a closer eye on this one before buying.

 

[NullPointer]

Danny O'Dwyer talked about it with Destiny in his gamespot days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g79dWuqXe5o

Its a great video but its still pretty abstract, covering the theory in some detail but not as much the practice outside of our guesswork at the end results we see in games. I guess I'm wondering what the day to day looks like for these folks, and how publishers and devs interact with them, and each other, to put their findings into practice. Brass tacks.

 

[CelestialWolfZX]

I have a question regarding pay for loot models.

Is it possible that behind the scenes, rare/better items are coded with increased drop percentages for paid crate over crates earned from gameplay? If I were a company trying to incentivize loot crate purchases, couldn't I condition you to learn that you get better items when you spend money on crates?

Sorry if the above is common knowledge, I don't have much experience with loot crate gambling systems.

No way in telling until someone does the research with the game itself. And don't expect that to show itself first week due to the grind.

Similarly whilst I'm unknown of the contents of the Beta, they can "sweeten" the odds in the Beta as well to make things more appealing.

The only knowledge we get I believe is from China who has a law passed saying what the individual odds of each item are in a lootbox, and even then, no saying those are the same odds outside of China...

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Wait what?

How isn't Battlefront 2 Competitive?

Is it suppose to be? It's the Star Wars experience first before anything else.

 

[Neith]

The magnitude of the problem is exemplified with posters here wishing 'why can't it be only cosmetic'. That's how severe the case is. How about wishing that you can fucking actually only pay specifically for the item you want, you know like anything else in the world.

You should NEVER WANT lootboxes to be the ONLY way to get items, cosmetics included.

Let's all go back to the BF1 thread where free maps are AWESOME and every publisher should do this! Because the massive amount of content we get with premium apparently sucks, and hey why not just do loot boxes and bullshit like this?

I will take premium any day of the week over this. I have this preordered for the 60 version because the flight stuff looks fun, and I don't want any other shooter for the holidays atm. BF1's model is better to me. Esp with premium friends.

 

[nuclearaddict]

Is it suppose to be? It's the Star Wars experience first before anything else.

I think if it wasn't competitive you wouldn't have better abilities and what not locked away in crates. Otherwise shouldn't the unlockables be lore related things? Don't ever remember regular soldiers able to take massive damage in any of the movies.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Is it suppose to be? It's the Star Wars experience first before anything else.

There is no competitive/ranked mode, it is just a multiplayer meatgrinder. You join a server to have fun, your impact on the outcome of the game is usually no more than 5%. The matchmaking doesn't care how many games you lose/win either, just your playtime/level.

Battlefield is kind of like that too, except people can organize tournaments and clan matches, but it is a pain in the ass to assemble anything for large modes. There is a small competitive mode in alpha, but I doubt that anything like that is going to be build for Battlefront 2.

Good thing that people on GAF don't know about Battlefield 1 Russian weapons, there would be another outrage thread.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

So considering people are saying it's not p2w it seems I may have jumped the gun with my assumption playing it last night. The first thing that happened to me was getting 2 Boba Fetts which led me to think these were expendable and that after a certain amount of hero uses I'd have to hope for another in a loot crate.

I'm guessing this isn't the case, So what purpose does having dupes serve in this instance? I didn't see a way to 'cash in' dupes like OW does for you hence my expendable assumption.

I'll be playing a few more rounds shortly to see if I can get into it a bit more and if I do how the drops operate will be a decider in skip or buy.

 

[mikelarry]

2017 the year publishers willingly want to ignore my money. ah well thats another game i can scratch off my list, unto AC origins then but knowing ubisoft i am already preparing for the worst.

 

[darkistheway]

Pay-to-win is such overwrought way of looking at this. It's a videogame not the real world. Let people spend money instead of time.

If you are so opposed to it, don't buy the game.

 

[nuclearaddict]

Good thing that people on GAF don't know about Battlefield 1 Russian weapons, there would be another outrage thread.

Which ones are those? The only top tier weapon I know from the expansions is the chauchat low weight. It's what I use. It's the only one I know of cause i exclusively play support. But the BAR is just as good, so it's not exactly an unfair advantage.

A weapon with better handling doesn't come close to consumables that are in these crates imo.

 

[Neith]

Which ones are those? The only top tier weapon I know from the expansions is the chauchat low weight. It's what I use. It's the only one I know of cause i exclusively play support. But the BAR is just as good, so it's not exactly an unfair advantage.

A weapon with better handling doesn't come close to consumables that are in these crates imo.

There is absolutely nothing really game breaking about the Russian weapons. There are some good ones, but there have been great weapons all along lol.

Good thing GAF doesn't know about any weapons in BF1 you might be saying. There are tons of great weapons.

RSP Optical is one of the best guns in the game if you can handle it. Nutters like Exor main that thing.

 

[Neith]

The cost of maps being free. Sucks but, this is what gaming is now.

Edit: I agree you can still have the boxes in game and should be cosmetic only. I just say it like I do cause it's just ingrained in gaming culture now. I never buy these things and only get it from the game how it's earned for free.

What is this? You are probably complaining to high heaven about paying an okay price for Premium content, which is a ton of content, and here were are with pay to win loadouts much worse than anything in BF1 and hey fuck it this is how it is now guys!

LOL.

 

[Renekton]

Well if Shadow of War gets a free pass from reviewers, then this will too.

 

[IsntChrisL]

It's better than posters like you overreacting at every single thing which actually is just as bad.

There are games that deserve to be called out like forza 7 and how shadows of morder handles their true ending. Those are dispicable loot boxes and a determent to the game than there are ones that are okay and don't have an issue like Destiny and Overwatch. So yeah I will wait till more of the story comes out before reacting and saying this is the worst thing ever. It may not be anything major and if it turns out to be worst than it sounds like than I will call it out as well.

Just because someone else is fucking you over worse doesn't make this shit any more excusable.

 

[Ibuki]

Cod should just sell nukes because some people practice more than me and they can get them anyway so who cares ?

That is something earned by skill on a per match basis.

It's still possible to win against someone using cards earned by a lootbox or grinding.

I think you just missed my point.

 

[Tovarisc]

Well if Shadow of War gets a free pass from reviewers, then this will too.

I'm far more curious about why this gets free pass from GAF, but SoW doesn't.

MT / Box model is identical at core level.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

some people just like lootboxes because they need an incentive to keep playing.

Which is such a strange mode of thinking when the most common retort to people who hate contemporary lootbox design is 'stop fixating on the stingy free boxes your reward should be getting good at the game!.'

 

[legend166]

I remember when map packs were made to try and increase the longevity of a title to improve its legs (i.e if a game is still releasing maps six months later you're going to sell more games).

Now they're held over people like a Sword of Damocles and used as an excuse to use any other horrible practice. Accept this awful thing or we'll have to charge for map packs!

 

[nuclearaddict]

Just because someone else is fucking you over worse doesn't make this shit any more excusable.

I agree. This needs to be addressed and discussed. I'm not calling for a witch hunt, but we need to discuss if this really is the path gaming should take for the foreseeable future.

I find it a little funny that the article about how toxic gaming culture is came just days before these games were announced to have loot crates. I'm not saying all gamers are healthy minded, but it paints gamers as even more toxic when we say "hey, hold up a minute. Loot crates?".

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I remember when map packs were made to try and increase the longevity of a title to improve its legs (i.e if a game is still releasing maps six months later you're going to sell more games).

Now they're held over people like a Sword of Damocles and used as an excuse to use any other horrible practice. Accept this awful thing or we'll have to charge for map packs!

I remember when map packs were community-contributed freebies installed on dedicated servers and substantially lengthened the viable lifespan of a multiplayer shooter. Now everything is a walled garden and chained behind f2p monetization schemes and anybody who complains isn't understanding how generous a deal it is to get all these free maps on a regular schedule.

 

[petethepanda]

Pining for those halycon days where online passes felt like the worst thing a game could do

 

[Facism]

Pay-to-win is such overwrought way of looking at this. It's a videogame not the real world. Let people spend money instead of time.

If you are so opposed to it, don't buy the game.

Just "don't buy the game?" People should voice concerns and complaints to businesses, otherwise how will they know what factors have reduced the value of the product in the eyes of their potential customers?

 

[PtKid]

I ain't even mad anymore... I just wont buy the game.

Same is happening with Shadow of War and the shambles that is Act 4.

Lets see what Ubi does with AC:Origins and what EA does with NFS payback.

The way i see it is they are saving me money!

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Pay-to-win is such overwrought way of looking at this. It's a videogame not the real world. Let people spend money instead of time.

If you are so opposed to it, don't buy the game.

I get so tired of this lazy retort.

 

[staticneuron]

CMON!! This should not exist...

I haven't come across that perk specifically but normally there is a drawback to abilities. only weapons are persistent yet on a cool down period. I was able to get an ability for officer that nullified explosions in a certain radius for a certain amount of time. none of the ability cards seem to be all powerful.

I'm far more curious about why this gets free pass from GAF, but SoW doesn't.

MT / Box model is identical at core level.

It could be that more people are upset at lootboxes being in a single player game. Some people are also upset at true ending and the fact that you can use the LB as shortcuts to the grind. So it is not identical.

Alot of the implementations that get people upset recently are very different and have different demands on time and different subjective worth.

I have played the alpha and the beta of battlefront 2 and it is not as bad as it seems because of the speed in which you can get money and perks, in addition to challenges completed. If they change it to be slower in full game then it would really suck. The first one was an absolute slog to get the money and perks despite the mobile game and other features to help you out. There is a balance that this game is really close too. I hope EA doesn't go to far like how they treated BF4.

Just "don't buy the game?" People should voice concerns and complaints to businesses, otherwise how will they know what factors have reduced the value of the product in the eyes of their potential customers?

In addition to the complaints people shouldn't buy games. So the companies know why. I agree.

 

[Renekton]

I'm far more curious about why this gets free pass from GAF, but SoW doesn't.

MT / Box model is identical at core level.

I thought SoW got good review scores?

(Oops nvm misread your post)

 

[Hazanko]

I won't be getting this, was so close too. I've said it before but it needs regulation. There are too many people who get addicted to this practice for it to stop.

 

[lawnchair]

it's so nice of them to include this time-saving feature! thank you for saving my time, guys!

 

[MADGAME]

This is the second time I've seen this brought up today with all of these lootbox threads. Are there any articles or videos that go in-depth on this, specifically with video games? Any details of how this is actually done and what kind of work-product these professionals deliver?


Don't see why not. That would align with some of the dev-secrets we heard about a few weeks back about how game systems might cheat or provide extra incentive for first time players. Why not extra oomph for first time buyers? And routine buyers? As a programmer too I'd think the idea of varying in-game drop rates and reward tiers to hit particular sales metrics month to month, week to week or even day to day are feasible and wouldn't surprise me to find some games doing this.

Is it possible? Absolutely

Is such things implemented? We have no reliable way to tell.

So disheartening

No way in telling until someone does the research with the game itself. And don't expect that to show itself first week due to the grind.

Similarly whilst I'm unknown of the contents of the Beta, they can "sweeten" the odds in the Beta as well to make things more appealing.

The only knowledge we get I believe is from China who has a law passed saying what the individual odds of each item are in a lootbox, and even then, no saying those are the same odds outside of China...

Regarding the bolded, one detail from crates in the beta (probably commonly known by now) is that duplicate items is also a thing.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I'm far more curious about why this gets free pass from GAF, but SoW doesn't.

MT / Box model is identical at core level.

it doesn't get a free pass.

it's just that there are opposing vocal groups

one that wants free maps for reasons like the player base not being fragmented and want cosmetics to cover the budget gap.

one that doesn't mind paying for map packs because they think the alternative will lean into p2w and less maps overall.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

could you imagine running a race with just a few people instead of a full field of competitors because the racetrack is locked behind a paywall?

and of course the average skill level of the few competitors is higher than other races because they're the ones most likely to pay?

What? So the answer is letting some people cheat? Think about what you’re posting

Edit: I mean yeah I would never run in either race. That’s so obvious, what are you even talking about?

“Well you can run but please understand some of the other runners have paid more than you so they will get certain shortcuts and advantages”

This is not something that happens in any other sort of competition. Accepting it here is adsurd

 

[The Faceless Master]

What? So the answer is letting some people cheat? Think about what you're posting

it's not cheating if the organizers allow it.

feel free to protest. always feel free to protest.

or feel free to race in another racing league.