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[ungalo]

I don't want a next gen update and still i find the Xbox statement (if true) to be dumb, it's 2 different things.

Currently Xbox is not ahead of PS5 on the hardware and if PS5 Pro exist they will be behind, the rest is irrelevant. If they think they can afford that good for them.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Are you saying that's what they told him originally and he just hasn't passed it on until now?

Marketing is all about timing.

 

[Dick Jones]

Marketing is all about timing

Tragedy + time = comedy

 

[MarkMe2525]

Very old news. This conversation has been out there since the reveal. During DF original coverage of the Series machines, John spoke of them asking a designer the reasoning behind the Series S, to which the hardware engineer replied that "because of the inability to affordably shrink components, designing a cost effective model from the get go was paramount to providing a console at mainstream prices. The Series S is their baseline mainstream product and the Series X is for the hardcore gamer looking to get the top of the line console experience." This is the conversation they are referring to, and while I understand it is being recontextualized in this conversation DF is having, they are not working off of new information or new conversations with Xbox.

Edit: I see some other users have already caught this.

 

[FrankWza]

Marketing is all about timing.

 

[Del_X]

Microsoft should just target a $599 or $699 price target and a 2026 release date for their next system, with support for series S|X through 2028. Release an actual next-gen machine.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Having listened to the conversation, it’s just so ill informed.

Xbox’s biggest problem with another model isn’t the hardware itself, it’s having 3 very different specs on the market. It’s 2023 and their userbase isn’t exactly huge to be polite, they are already splitting between S and X, which aims at different audiences and burdens developers with a low spec machine. You want to increase that to 3? Developers might not love it and the audience might become confused. What can they do? Replace the Series X with the XX, but that’s its own can of worms, because then you are telling devs to take advantage of hardware they don’t sell anymore.

Sony has every incentive to come out with a PS5 pro and lean HARD on RT performance. From a business perspective it makes total sense too because their audience isn’t already split by performance specs, and they will probably be closing in on 70 million consoles by then. And then there’s VR.

I don’t even know how to address DF anymore, it’s just bad take central.

 

[Topher]

Very old news. This conversation has been out there since the reveal. During DF original coverage of the Series machines, John spoke of them asking a designer the reasoning behind the Series S, to which the hardware engineer replied that "because of the inability to affordably shrink components, designing a cost effective model from the get go was paramount to providing a console at mainstream prices. The Series S is their baseline mainstream product and the Series X is for the hardcore gamer looking to get the top of the line console experience." This is the conversation they are referring to, and while I understand it is being recontextualized in this conversation DF is having, they are not working off of new information or conversations with Xbox.

Edit: I see some other users have already caught this.

The two target markets was obvious, but what is strange is how the Series X is now characterized as the "mid-gen refresh". That's a new wrinkle.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

We are already getting 30 FPS only games

And we'll continue to get more. A mid-gen console isn't going to do anything unless the CPU and RAM are upgraded and current to a PC level. If it's just a GPU upgrade to just push visuals, we'll still get 30FPS games because developers and publishers will continue to push visuals over performance. Mid-gen consoles are unlikely to change that.

Also, if mid-gen consoles release in November 2024, screw that, just give me the next Xbox and PlayStation consoles in November 2026 instead and we move on to the next generation of console gaming.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Are you saying that's what they told him originally and he just hasn't passed it on until now?

Yup I updated my post but DF have kinda hinted at this last year when talks of a mid-gen refresh was rumored Rich made a video quoting Jason Ronald about the cost of components going up and Rich summized that mid-gen refreshes wouldn't be feasible

Edit: it was actually Andrew Goosen

 

[Tsaki]

Wait they told them that in 2020? Ok then this quote really has no meaning. They wouldn't be talking about mid gen before the gen started. They are definitely doing a new model just like Sony. The question is will it release in 2024 or 2025?

 

[Topher]

Wait they told them that in 2020? Ok then this quote really has no meaning. They wouldn't be talking about mid gen before the gen started. They are definitely doing a new model just like Sony. The question is will it release in 2024 or 2025?

This is coming up after Phil Spencer said he saw no need for a mid-gen refresh so doesn't sound like a new Xbox is coming until next gen.

 

[nowhat]

I think the best part of the episode was when Rich Leadbetter was talking about how we finally got rid of Xbox One and all its ESRAM nonsense.

Like, Rich, my man. Who was it that was really hyping up the ESRAM, how it was going to make all the difference. Who was it, Rich? I can't recall, it was so long ago.

 

[Fake]

3:49
John: 'Starfield at 30 fps, I think this is not a limitation of the machine, its just Bethesda doing Bethesda things'.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is coming up after Phil Spencer said he saw no need for a mid-gen refresh so doesn't sound like a new Xbox is coming until next gen.

Starfield be like,

3:49
John: 'Starfield at 30 fps, I think this is not a limitation of the machine, its just Bethesda doing Bethesda things'.

 

[Zathalus]

You sound upset.

The astroturfing was not nearly as bad, and never has been. MS are masters at that shit.

Yes, I'm super upset over console talking points. In reality my response to you was typed while I was sitting on the toilet.

And yes, the Sony side was just as bad (outside of the SSD the custom Geometry Engine was hyped to high heaven). I remember the next-gen discussion thread and trust me both sides were pro at flinging shit around. I probably have the entire Mark Cerny presentation memorized with the sheer amount of times it has been posted here.

 

[cireza]

There is no need for an additional model. They should focus on the best Series S + X support for the ~5 coming years, whatever the competition does.

 

[Thaedolus]

There is no need for an additional model. They should focus on the best Series S + X support for the ~5 coming years, whatever the competition does.

I suppose. I didn’t need an Xbox this gen because they decided to go all in on GP with PC being fully supported. So I guess if you want the ultimate Xbox experience, the option is there on PC. Their messaging seems rather silly though.

They should just outright say “the best Xbox Xperience is on PC”

 

[Physiognomonics]

It’s so insane that Alex is against a PS5 pro.

Can it really be that simple as, whatever Sony does he’s against it? Has he gone full WWE on us, is this a shoot? Or is he really that much of a bitter hater?

Yep. I remember they had almost only praises for the XSS and the X1X.

 

[Tsaki]

This is coming up after Phil Spencer said he saw no need for a mid-gen refresh so doesn't sound like a new Xbox is coming until next gen.

We'll see. I don't think it's likely though. For one, Spencer spews BS all the time. He had a new console coming. Can't have people wait for mid gen instead of buying at launch. And most importantly: if Sony does one (they do, per Henderson), they will make one too. If they didn't plan on doing it, as soon they got whiff that their competitor does, they would change their plans. The One X did some great marketing for Microsoft and they definitely sold more units than they would otherwise. Spencer even "introduced" the Series X by saying "from the team that created the One X".
If they don't then they'll just let Sony ride 4 years of "The most Powerful Console" marketing. All Digital Foundry videos, the guys that actually get interviews with the Xbox hardware team, will just be marketing for PS5 Pro the same way that a 4090 is marketing for Nvidia in every PC GPU comparison video.

 

[Varteras]

If it's a shed at least I can live in it in safety and comfort away from my wife.

Does she know you present yourself as a transgender Todd Howard and make men hot and bothered with your market analyses?

When you see shameless shit like this it's a wonder how these people still have the confidence to keep on posting here.

That guy loves his buzzwords.

This “journalist” was also involved

I have been wrong on this forum plenty of times. Also willing to admit it. But to be that confidently, and embarrassingly, wrong as often as people like that have been and keep posting, is just really something else. I don't know how they do it without feeling like the community rube. Though people like that often hide their post history, too...

 

[cireza]

They should just outright say “the best Xbox Xperience is on PC”

Everybody knows this anyway. A 1500$ PC is going to run games better than a 500$ or 300$ console. Sounds obvious.

 

[jroc74]

Isn't that what many of us also said in 2020 ?

Came to post this.

Hell, I remember saying this weeks ago.

 

[PropellerEar]

The face on Dickbeater when John goes off script...

But probably in reality he is just nervous to see will this doofus deliver the marketing message coming from Greenburger without realizing how idiotic things he is made to say.

Good work demigod or who ever wants to take credit of running dark10x out of here...

 

[Rossco EZ]

I heard they also consulted with this guy:

lmaoooooooo

 

[Evil Calvin]

Best GIF of the year

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes, I'm super upset over console talking points. In reality my response to you was typed while I was sitting on the toilet.

And yes, the Sony side was just as bad (outside of the SSD the custom Geometry Engine was hyped to high heaven). I remember the next-gen discussion thread and trust me both sides were pro at flinging shit around. I probably have the entire Mark Cerny presentation memorized with the sheer amount of times it has been posted here.

Ok

 

[Corndog]

Lol! Alex is so full of shit! The only reason he hates the idea of a PS5 Pro is because he knows the hardware would further chip away at some of the benefits of PC vs console (at least in short term) and become a compelling option for even the most devout PC players.

A PS5 pro would most likely still be weaker then my 3070.

 

[Zathalus]

Ok

Good talk.

 

[Luigi Mario]

I heard they also consulted with this guy:

So, is Riky one of those guys that unironically bought into the “Series S is going to give PS5 trouble” and “full RDNA2” narrative back in 2020?

 

[DeepEnigma]

They should just outright say “the best Xbox Xperience is on PC”

That's the new narrative they'll possibly lean into. Hence the "we love PC" PR seed planted a week or so ago.

 

[analog_future]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Its hard to justify a pro style Xbox if you can't keep it at $499 or under as the budget PC starts to come into play

PS5 Pro however has a larger untapped market

 

[bitbydeath]

Isn't that what many of us also said in 2020 ?

I didn’t think much of it back then but the naming convention is the same.

One S = Series S
One X = Series X

Maybe I just always expected a new letter to be added.

 

[hybrid_birth]

Insider reports the secret sauce dGPU will be unlocked in 2024 to make it a pro version for free.

Nah it wouldn't be free. It would be an add on subscription. "Unlock the power of Your Series X with a Gamepass Ultimate Graphics subscription! Only $35.99 a month.

 

[solidus12]

ms and sony don't have loyalists who worship them like ninty and apple do).

Xbox has the most toxic fan base, worse yet Xbox execs interact with them face to face and on social media.

I love how this misinformation fanboy gets proven wrong every time he opens his hole.

 

[DeepEnigma]

misinformation fanboy

And they love and reward him for it.

 

[damidu]

lol that battalion boy seems even intimidated by the idea of a ps5pro.
probably because he knows it’ll put his beloved microsoft in an awfully awkward position.
another reason why sony should do it.

haven’t seen these clowns complain about any other hardware update.

 

[Kurotri]

But what does this mean for the PS5 pro? Devs will still have to consider the series S. PS5 pro will obviously have its advantages (RT and 60fps? fuck if I know), but what about its price point? Honestly I don't see much of an issue if they just continue with S and X, the PS5 pro will still be the choice of a minority, while the S, X and PS5 will continue to be the main targets like they are today. I can kinda see MS's point. I think?

 

[solidus12]

And they love and reward him for it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

He's a special one.

 

[Topher]

Its hard to justify a pro style Xbox if you can't keep it at $499 or under as the budget PC starts to come into play

PS5 Pro however has a larger untapped market

It is also going to be hard to keep to Phil Spencer's claims if Sony is already readying the PS5 Pro.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It is also going to be hard to keep to Phil Spencer's claims if Sony is already readying the PS5 Pro.

Paging O onQ123

Dude's threads are ahead of their time.

 

[Yoboman]

They are going to release Series SS and Series XX as mid gen refreshes to both machines. Also Series XXX for gamers who really want a console which eats monsters for breakfast

So only five SKUs for devs to make games for

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It is also going to be hard to keep to Phil Spencer's claims if Sony is already readying the PS5 Pro.

I believe a PS5 Pro is coming

 

[Darsxx82]

This is coming up after Phil Spencer said he saw no need for a mid-gen refresh so doesn't sound like a new Xbox is coming until next gen.

P. Spencer said "RIGTH NOW" ... That is, he refers to the current moment in which most people do not see a Pro console as adequate when the current ones have not begun to be squeezed properly.

Spencer statement couldn't make more logic in the business sense. If they had planned to launch a "Pro" console, for example, within two years, saying other things would have been surprising. Inviting people to wait for the announcement of an XBOX Series Z would be hitting the sales of the current X/S.

This Gen is outlier. The game developments are longer and everything indicates that this gen will be too. Time will tell, but I am clear that if Sony has a PS5 Pro, MS will also have an answer.

P.S. I remember that XBO X was released a year after PS4Pro

 

[onnextflix5]

ms plz just shut up for once. I wonder what they are going to do if ps5 pro is real, and comes out next year,

 

[Yoboman]

So you’re saying your flagship console which is basically on par with the competition’s flagship console is actually the 1.5x enthusiast step…and your budget series is the main course…

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills

I think they really thought they had that level of advantage just on the teraflop spec sheet just like a lot of Xbox fans around here. So things could have changed once reality hit

The funny thing is DF saying that's a good thing? Wtf

 

[Fake]

The best part of this entire video is this conversation. Start at 11:52

 

[Lucifers Beard]

I heard they also consulted with this guy:

This reminds me of back in the early 360 days, people I knew would talk about the improvements you would see when Microsoft unlocked the other cores in the 360. Was that even a thing? I was too busy drooling over Ghost Recon and Gears of War.