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[blu]

It is a pipeline bubble you can schedule work around and thus manage, but it still remain a pipeline bubble for the GPU (rendering to texture and then using said texture take a much longer amount of time and thus GPU clock cycles, so that is more latency you have to hide with math ops) and every resolve you do to main RAM does reduce the bandwidth available to the CPU.

I think we got sidetracked a bit here. The original post I was responding to was claiming that any performance issues during scenes of heavy translucency usage would be likely due to BW limits. I was disagreeing with that, resolve or not. I was saying that the BW to an embedded fb is more than sufficient to handle something which was originally written for a lower fb BW, and that there are other factors, not related to BW, that can affect the performance of a GPU under such conditions. Getting back to tex resolve, though. A texture resolve:
1. is a fixed cost that normally happens to the same amount every frame, translucencies or not, and
2. can affect CPU BW negatively, but is an overall negligible bubble for a modern desktop-ballpark GPU. A resolve of a render target is normally limited by BW to main RAM. For example, an RGBA8 720p target resolve to RAM @25GB/s would take ~150us (assuming the bus is entirely saturated by the resolve). That's not such a big deal for the CPU to work around (remember, at this time the game logic is still finishing preparing the next frame).

It is still a worthy compromise between the very nice approach the Gs used and the first Xbox 1 with its single memory pool.

An embedded fb of sufficient size is pretty much the best thing there is, IMO. Of course, 'sufficient' being a key term here.

Well, I could say ... because it makes sense , but I will have to leave that to "birds".

It doesn't make sense to me, that's why I'm asking ; )

 

[snowdog1971]

Heh, well I can see Xbox3/PS4 having as much as 3GB for games 4GB at an absolute stretch. Which vs WiiU (if it stays at 1GB) is very similar to the difference between DC and XBox. But I cant see any other likely similarities. Architectures between the two will be much closer and performance differences wont be as drastic unless Sony/MS suddenly decide to more than double the specs we've heard about.

Another thing that could prove to be a gamechanger in terms of RAM is if my theory about the RAM ends up being correct. I came up with the idea when Ancel mentioned almost unlimited RAM, and after we've just heard about 4 or 5GB being reserved for the OS I reckon I could be bang on the money:

I reckon that Nintendo have reserved some of that on-board flash for swapspace. 4 or 5GB is huge for an OS footprint, way too big. Even 512MB of swapspace is going to be a huge boon for developers, but we could be looking at two times or even four times as much...which would be more than a little mental. :Oo

If the on-board flash is SLC rather than MLC it should be fast enough and accurate enough to do the job.

And you've all got to take into account the fact that (assuming the PS4 and 720 are released this time next year) the U is highly likely to have an installed userbase between 10 and 15m by the time that the other consoles are released, and publishers aren't going to leave money on the table now that Nintendo are launching a console that's going to be easy to port to and from.

 

[Smurfman256]

Another thing that could prove to be a gamechanger in terms of RAM is if my theory about the RAM ends up being correct. I came up with the idea when Ancel mentioned almost unlimited RAM, and after we've just heard about 4 or 5GB being reserved for the OS I reckon I could be bang on the money:

I reckon that Nintendo have reserved some of that on-board flash for swapspace. 4 or 5GB is huge for an OS footprint, way too big. Even 512MB of swapspace is going to be a huge boon for developers, but we could be looking at two times or even four times as much...which would be more than a little mental. :Oo

If the on-board flash is SLC rather than MLC it should be fast enough and accurate enough to do the job.

And you've all got to take into account the fact that (assuming the PS4 and 720 are released this time next year) the U is highly likely to have an installed userbase between 10 and 15m by the time that the other consoles are released, and publishers aren't going to leave money on the table now that Nintendo are launching a console that's going to be easy to port to and from.

You know, maybe the stars have aligned just right and you may be right. But, I suppose that we will have to wait until the emulator writers get their hands on it and some spec sheets.

 

[Ryoku]

Another thing that could prove to be a gamechanger in terms of RAM is if my theory about the RAM ends up being correct. I came up with the idea when Ancel mentioned almost unlimited RAM, and after we've just heard about 4 or 5GB being reserved for the OS I reckon I could be bang on the money:

I reckon that Nintendo have reserved some of that on-board flash for swapspace. 4 or 5GB is huge for an OS footprint, way too big. Even 512MB of swapspace is going to be a huge boon for developers, but we could be looking at two times or even four times as much...which would be more than a little mental. :Oo

If the on-board flash is SLC rather than MLC it should be fast enough and accurate enough to do the job.

And you've all got to take into account the fact that (assuming the PS4 and 720 are released this time next year) the U is highly likely to have an installed userbase between 10 and 15m by the time that the other consoles are released, and publishers aren't going to leave money on the table now that Nintendo are launching a console that's going to be easy to port to and from.

Where did you hear of this rumor? I haven't heard of it.

 

[AzaK]

Where did you hear of this rumor? I haven't heard of it.

He's talking about the latest Nintendo Direct where Iwata said the Wii U OS takes about 4.2 Gig.

 

[Thraktor]

Where did you hear of this rumor? I haven't heard of it.

It's not a rumour, it was confirmed by Nintendo that the 8GB model will only have about 3GB of space left after all the OS and pre-installed software is taken into account. I can't find the thread it's in amongst all the Wii U threads at the moment, but it's certainly true.

On the topic, there was talk a while back that the OS had 512MB of separate flash memory (possibly of a different type) alongside the 8GB or 32GB. I wonder if that's actually the case, and if so what it's used for.

 

[snowdog1971]

Where did you hear of this rumor? I haven't heard of it.

From the Nintendo Direct a few days ago. Once you do that first update you've got around 3GB left over. 4 or 5GB for the OS and accounts etc is huge. There has to be something about it that we don't know, and my theory fits in with what Ancel said not so long ago.

If this has been done then I reckon this has been a relatively last minute thing because I guess Nintendo hasn't finalised the OS and account situation until recently.

Guess we'll find out in a couple of years when the majority of PS4 and 720 has been done on final dev kits. We probably won't see that much of a difference between the eye candy quality of all 3 consoles until then:

2012 - Wii U released, majority of development done on underclocked/unfinished dev kits
2013 - PS4 and 720 released, majority of PS4/720 development done on underclocked/unfinished dev kits. The majority of U development done on finished dev kits plus developers getting used to working with the Wii U.
2014 - Majority of PS4/720 being done on finished dev kits, developers getting used to working with the PS4/720.

We won't see that much difference between the eye candy quality of Wii U, PS4 and 720 games from third parties until the end of 2014 or the beginning of 2015...which is going to disappoint a great deal of people. First and second party titles however will be a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

[brainpann]

Another thing that could prove to be a gamechanger .....

OK, so hypothetically, if this were true, how would it benefit development. Of course, i realize that more ram is always a good thing but this isnt quite the same. I am asking out of genuine curiosity.

 

[Thraktor]

OK, so hypothetically, if this were true, how would it benefit development. Of course, i realize that more ram is always a good thing but this isnt quite the same. I am asking out of genuine curiosity.

Of course, it depends hugely on the speed and latency of the flash memory (and there are large ranges of possible values for both), but I suppose the most obvious benefit would be open world games. Normally in such games, a portion of RAM would be dedicated to the area immediately around the player (what they can see, basically) and another portion would contain data being streamed from the disc to cover the surrounding locations (places the player can't see, but might move to). The latter data doesn't actually need to be in super-fast RAM, but it still needs to come into play faster than an optical disc could possibly stream it. With a good chunk of flash memory, you could stream all that data on there, and then bring it onto the main RAM only when it's needed, at a much greater speed than the optical drive. This means you can minimise the amount of space that kind of data takes up on the RAM, hence freeing it up for more detailed textures and stuff in the immediate view of the player.

It's the kind of thing where the benefits would vary from near zero in some games to quite significant in some others, and it's not free from the developers' perspective (as it effectively adds another layer to the memory hierarchy to manage), but it would be a useful (and relatively cheap) addition to the console for Nintendo to make.

 

[Margalis]

Adding more artists won't even add 500k to dev costs and that's assuming they will even need additional artists.

Math, how does it work?

 

[phosphor112]

It's not a rumour, it was confirmed by Nintendo that the 8GB model will only have about 3GB of space left after all the OS and pre-installed software is taken into account. I can't find the thread it's in amongst all the Wii U threads at the moment, but it's certainly true.

On the topic, there was talk a while back that the OS had 512MB of separate flash memory (possibly of a different type) alongside the 8GB or 32GB. I wonder if that's actually the case, and if so what it's used for.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/76655/wii-u-storage-is-smaller-than-you-think

Here.

That's... pathetic.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Guess we'll find out in a couple of years when the majority of PS4 and 720 has been done on final dev kits. We probably won't see that much of a difference between the eye candy quality of all 3 consoles until then:

2012 - Wii U released, majority of development done on underclocked/unfinished dev kits
2013 - PS4 and 720 released, majority of PS4/720 development done on underclocked/unfinished dev kits. The majority of U development done on finished dev kits plus developers getting used to working with the Wii U.
2014 - Majority of PS4/720 being done on finished dev kits, developers getting used to working with the PS4/720.

We won't see that much difference between the eye candy quality of Wii U, PS4 and 720 games from third parties until the end of 2014 or the beginning of 2015...which is going to disappoint a great deal of people. First and second party titles however will be a different kettle of fish altogether.

LOL, it don't works like this. Unfinished Xbox 720/PS4 dev kits are not "Wii U"s with ms/sony O.S.

 

[Thraktor]

http://www.shacknews.com/article/76655/wii-u-storage-is-smaller-than-you-think

Here.

That's... pathetic.

It's fine if you're never going to download any games, or if you're getting a HDD alongside the console. Not much use for casuals who might only download two or three titles, though, which is the sort of crowd I would have imagined the basic pack to be aimed at.

LOL, it don't works like this. Unfinished Xbox 720/PS4 dev kits are not "Wii U"s with ms/sony O.S.

It's not a matter of the XBox720/PS4 kits being Wii U's, it's that it's very difficult to optimise your game for a platform without final hardware. One of the main reasons that launch XBox360 games looked significantly worse than the second wave of titles was that developers were still coding on bodged together G5 Macs until a few months before launch. The dev kit situation for the next XBox and Playstation probably won't be as bad, but it's one of the inevitable aspects of creating a launch game for a system that you'll be hampered by the limited access to final hardware.

 

[Smurfman256]

correct me if I'm wrong on this: Didn't one of the guys at Frozenbyte say that Trine 2 could run on Wii U at 1920x1080, but they wanted the extra filrate? (I know that Shi'nen basically said the same thing, but I can't remember if Frozenbyte did as well.)

 

[Thunder Monkey]

http://www.shacknews.com/article/76655/wii-u-storage-is-smaller-than-you-think

Here.

That's... pathetic.

It's very very strange.

If an 8 gig flash drive wasn't bad enough, they've limited it to 3 gigs for some fairly nebulous OS reasons. Requiring access to external storage of some form to download retail games from their interwebs store.

THIS. IS. NINTENDO!

 

[snowdog1971]

It's fine if you're never going to download any games, or if you're getting a HDD alongside the console. Not much use for casuals who might only download two or three titles, though, which is the sort of crowd I would have imagined the basic pack to be aimed at.



It's not a matter of the XBox720/PS4 kits being Wii U's, it's that it's very difficult to optimise your game for a platform without final hardware. One of the main reasons that launch XBox360 games looked significantly worse than the second wave of titles was that developers were still coding on bodged together G5 Macs until a few months before launch. The dev kit situation for the next XBox and Playstation probably won't be as bad, but it's one of the inevitable aspects of creating a launch game for a system that you'll be hampered by the limited access to final hardware.

Cheers, saved me a bit of typing.

Working on launch titles for a new console is a bloomin nightmare for the reasons pointed out above and because even a month or two before launch in some cases there are hardware and SDK revisions flying about all over the place.

Going to be interesting to see the first teardown of the U, I want to see what sort of flash they've got hidden in there. I can't think of any other reason why the OS and accounts are going to take up so much room. 4.2GB is way too big for an OS footprint.

 

[Donnie]

LOL, it don't works like this. Unfinished Xbox 720/PS4 dev kits are not "Wii U"s with ms/sony O.S.

Your reply is completely beside the point. I mean wether you agree or disagree with his assertion he said nothing about XBox3/PS4 being WiiU's with MS/Sony OS, whatever that's supposed to mean.

 

[Donnie]

It's very very strange.

If an 8 gig flash drive wasn't bad enough, they've limited it to 3 gigs for some fairly nebulous OS reasons. Requiring access to external storage of some form to download retail games from their interwebs store.

THIS. IS. NINTENDO!

Yeah Nintendo are so restrictive, not like Sony and MS who let you plug in any USB or SD storage device you want.. oh wait no that's Nintendo

Seriously, yeah its sort of odd to call it a 8GB model if only 3GB is usable, and you're right that's very Nintendo. But what isn't, and what's actually better than the competition, is allowing basically any general storage like USB and SD, I definitely wasn't expecting that.

 

[Eusis]

Yeah Nintendo are so restrictive, not like Sony and MS who let you plug in any USB or SD storage device you want.. oh wait no that's Nintendo.

Of course, it IS like Nintendo to be the opposite of the other two: way better about external storage, terrible about internal. Basic really should've been 16 GB at least, that'd probably have given enough room for anything that wasn't Tekken. Or ME3 when/if that hits (it was PSN at launch why the hell not be on the Wii U store?).

 

[JordanN]

correct me if I'm wrong on this: Didn't one of the guys at Frozenbyte say that Trine 2 could run on Wii U at 1920x1080, but they wanted the extra filrate? (I know that Shi'nen basically said the same thing, but I can't remember if Frozenbyte did as well.)

Can't find any official quotes.

Regarding 1080p, all I remember was there someone here who allegedly talked to a frozenbyte dev and it was because they didn't have enough time and not because of extra fillrate that they didn't get it to run at a higher res. Again, rumor so careful before you quote.

 

[antonz]

Can't find any official quotes.

Regarding 1080p, all I remember was there someone here who allegedly talked to a frozenbyte dev and it was because they didn't have enough time and not because of extra fillrate that they didn't get it to run at a higher res. Again, rumor so careful before you quote.

There was something said about time I am pretty sure. They did say even at 720P its pushing more advanced than the other versions that they would have to downgrade the Wii U version to run on PS3/360

 

[brainpann]

So, basically Nintendo is holding about 4GB of flash memory and 1GB ram hostage just for the OS? Really? I don't think a minimum install of win7 even requires that. Do you guys think this is Nintendo just being Nintendo? I suppose down the road they could free up some memory/hdd space OR do you think there are some functions within the system we can only speculate about? I like the idea of some of flash memory being used as a sort of low speed ram for certain tasks and Nintendo is known to play around with ram. But what about the extra 1GB main ram? I think Nintendo is likely to release at least 512MB of that at some point buy why not have it ready from the start? Why gimp things early on?

 

[XtremeXpider]

Your reply is completely beside the point. I mean wether you agree or disagree with his assertion he said nothing about XBox3/PS4 being WiiU's with MS/Sony OS, whatever that's supposed to mean.

What he has said is first gen of games for 720/PS4 will look like second gen Wii U games and we will not see any difference (eye candy) between Wii U and 720PS4, and his argument is based on dev kits, just like if Wii U "finished kits" will do the same than "unfinished Xbox720 kits". An "unfinished" kit is not the same than "half power" or something like this. Alpha/beta kits have raw power, they are not "weak kits" only because they are not finished. Developers will make better games for Wii U later, there are not doubts, but we don't know yet how powerfull will be Xbox 720 and PS4, and "unfinished" kits, even being unfinished, will allow to show some power.

 

[antonz]

So, basically Nintendo is holding about 4GB of flash memory and 1GB ram hostage just for the OS? Really? I don't think a minimum install of win7 even requires that. Do you guys think this is Nintendo just being Nintendo? I suppose down the road they could free up some memory/hdd space OR do you think there are some functions within the system we can only speculate about? I like the idea of some of flash memory being used as a sort of low speed ram for certain tasks and Nintendo is known to play around with ram. But what about the extra 1GB main ram? I think Nintendo is likely to release at least 512MB of that at some point buy why not have it ready from the start? Why gimp things early on?

I have to image there is a degree of it being Nintendo being Nintendo. They would have a terribly bloated OS if it really takes up most of that 4GB. Ram its hard to say I don't see why it would need more than like 512 to be effective but Nintendo is so bent on multitasking that they could leave 1gb forever

 

[OryoN]

It's very very strange.

If an 8 gig flash drive wasn't bad enough, they've limited it to 3 gigs for some fairly nebulous OS reasons. Requiring access to external storage of some form to download retail games from their interwebs store.

THIS. IS. NINTENDO!

It's a bit disconcerting to know you have even less storage space than anticipated, but the idea would have been that; people who opted for the 8 GB pack must have very little interest in downloading games in the first place, OR plan to supplement it by adding an external drive.

Unless a person - via some crazy proposition - had planned to purchase the basic pack with the specific intention of downloading just 1 or 2 full game throughout the console's entire lifetime, then it's quite likely that if 3 GB wont suffice, then neither would 8 GB.

 

[Forsaken82]

http://www.shacknews.com/article/76655/wii-u-storage-is-smaller-than-you-think

Here.

That's... pathetic.

Just so we are on the same page... you also thought it was pathetic when the 360 dashboard took up 8 gigs right? Or is this simply a "I hate Nintendo, so this fuels my strong opinion" comment? Or are you simply referring to the fact that the 8 gig system basically amounts to nothing... until you add an external to it?

 

[Eusis]

It's plausible that a lot of that hogged memory is for programs like TVii and related media streaming stuff along with Mii assets, and they may well be holding it back to fill with new stuff later on similar to Find Mii 2.

EDIT: Don't forget part of that must be JUST for Wii stuff, so half a gig gone right there.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Yeah Nintendo are so restrictive, not like Sony and MS who let you plug in any USB or SD storage device you want.. oh wait no that's Nintendo

Seriously, yeah its sort of odd to call it a 8GB model if only 3GB is usable, and you're right that's very Nintendo. But what isn't, and what's actually better than the competition, is allowing basically any general storage like USB and SD, I definitely wasn't expecting that.

Oh I'm not going to knock them for allowing external storage of your choosing. That's actually cool.

But I'm not going to act like the fact that their base model won't fit a retail download is some genius move either. It's very Nintendo and in some ways unnecessarily eccentric. The very fact that it's Nintendo means I'm buying it at some point. Even if I won't be one of those early adopters this time.

 

[AzaK]

I was thinking about this on the drive home and it makes a little sense that they might reserve such a large amount.

Wii U has a browser and to make it a reasonably fast one it will need a cache.
Wii U also streams media via Netflix et al. Shows will need buffering to some degree.
Wii U might support video recording via the camera.
I imagine it will support background downloads of system updates.
As mentioned above, Wii Mode needs to have the fridge pre allocated.

And all this needs to be able to work without an HDD and be reserved memory so Nintendo can count on it being there.

They probably don't have a set amount of flash just for the OS, but will use the advertised amount for everything.

 

[NBtoaster]

Yeah Nintendo are so restrictive, not like Sony and MS who let you plug in any USB or SD storage device you want.. oh wait no that's Nintendo

Seriously, yeah its sort of odd to call it a 8GB model if only 3GB is usable, and you're right that's very Nintendo. But what isn't, and what's actually better than the competition, is allowing basically any general storage like USB and SD, I definitely wasn't expecting that.

You can plug in any USB storage you want on 360 too.

 

[tenchir]

You can plug in any USB storage you want on 360 too.

As long as you don't mind having only 32GB of it "usable."

 

[Eusis]

As long as you don't mind having only 32GB of it "usable."

Yeah, the Wii U is above and beyond that, and for PS3 it's more an aid in backing up and restoring to a new HD than being a reasonable alternative.

 

[Mr Swine]

Maybe Nintendo wants 4GB flash for the OS is because how little life span flash/SSD has. Specially when the cells can be writen like 1500-4000 times before "dying out".

 

[tenchir]

Maybe Nintendo wants 4GB flash for the OS is because how little life span flash/SSD has. Specially when the cells can be writen like 1500-4000 times before "dying out".

If there is a flash controller that has wear-leveling on it like SSD do, then the internal flash can last a long time. And I believe that MLC flash has a write limit of around 10k write cycles before cells stop writing.

edit: Seems that wear leveling can be done on the software/OS level, so I wouldn't worry about the internal memory dying out.

 

[Vagabundo]

At least it is something they can fix of the course of the console once flash chips drop in price.

 

[NBtoaster]

As long as you don't mind having only 32GB of it "usable."

16GB, but on the other hand you can continue to use it for files on pc, it doesn't need to be dedicated to the console.

 

[Ashler]

(...) But I'm not going to act like the fact that their base model won't fit a retail download is some genius move either. It's very Nintendo and in some ways unnecessarily eccentric. The very fact that it's Nintendo means I'm buying it at some point. Even if I won't be one of those early adopters this time.

MS did the same with both Xbox 360 Arcade & Xbox 360 Slim 4Gb.

 

[SpoonyBard]

MS did the same with both Xbox 360 Arcade & Xbox 360 Slim 4Gb.

And 32 gig Surface tab has only 16 gigs of free space.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

And in all cases it is stupid.

Potentially limiting. Not insurmountable.

But why are people questioning me for calling a dumb move a dumb move?

Options are great. Me like having them. But if you plan to take seriously a service with potentially 25 gig downloads... you really should try to hit at least a 1 download minimum. Just for ease of use sake.

 

[Lupin the Third]

16GB, but on the other hand you can continue to use it for files on pc, it doesn't need to be dedicated to the console.

This limit was upped to 32GB with a recent firmware update.

Also, when I converted a USB thumb drive for use with the 360 a couple of weeks ago, I'm pretty certain it told me I couldn't use it in any other devices.
EDIT: Apparently the text was misleading or it was because I didn't use a hueg enough thumb drive (it was a 4GB stick). It will only hoard up to 32GB of space (although the site just says 16GB) and the rest CAN be accessed by a PC.

So, I guess the big difference between the two is tiny usable memory caps on your mobile storage vs. a lack of interoperability.

 

[tenchir]

This limit was upped to 32GB with a recent firmware update.

Also, when I converted a USB thumb drive for use with the 360 a couple of weeks ago, I'm pretty certain it told me I couldn't use it in any other devices.
EDIT: Apparently the text was misleading or it was because I didn't use a hueg enough thumb drive (it was a 4GB stick). It will only hoard up to 32GB of space (although the site just says 16GB) and the rest CAN be accessed by a PC.

So, I guess the big difference between the two is tiny usable memory caps on your mobile storage vs. a lack of interoperability.

The way the XBOX360 uses a USB Drive/Flash is different than the WiiU. The XBOX only formats the USB drive(unless it's already properly formatted) with NTSF files system then creates an image file(based on your selection 512MB, 1Gb, 2Gb etc size) in that drive. When you plug it in, it will just mount that image on the drive. If you plug in the USB drive into your computer, you will see that image.

 

[Mr Swine]

If there is a flash controller that has wear-leveling on it like SSD do, then the internal flash can last a long time. And I believe that MLC flash has a write limit of around 10k write cycles before cells stop writing.

edit: Seems that wear leveling can be done on the software/OS level, so I wouldn't worry about the internal memory dying out.

Well its 1500 if its on a 22nm manufacturing process like the new intel and Samsung SSD are on and not 45nm which has 10k write cycles. Also MLC flash has around 1/10 of the SLC flash write cycle

 

[tenchir]

Well its 1500 if its on a 22nm manufacturing process like the new intel and Samsung SSD are on and not 45nm which has 10k write cycles. Also MLC flash has around 1/10 of the SLC flash write cycle

Last time I read about SLC, they have 100k write cycles. I looked up a bit more and found that you are right about the 45nm parts, but the 22nm are 3k. Still with a proper software or controller wear leveling algorithm, the flash will last a long time. It's not as if the Wii U will constantly write data to it.

edit: Intel new SSD uses 20nm, they skipped 22nm from 25nm ssd and it's rated at 3k. The anandtech article about that 20nm SSD talked about the impressive write endurance it has(because of wear-leveling).

 

[Matt]

It's very very strange.

If an 8 gig flash drive wasn't bad enough, they've limited it to 3 gigs for some fairly nebulous OS reasons. Requiring access to external storage of some form to download retail games from their interwebs store.

THIS. IS. NINTENDO!

You mean....just like the Vita? Or XBox Arcade for that matter.

This has nothing to do with Nintendo specifically.

 

[Silas Lang]

And in all cases it is stupid.

Potentially limiting. Not insurmountable.

But why are people questioning me for calling a dumb move a dumb move?

Options are great. Me like having them. But if you plan to take seriously a service with potentially 25 gig downloads... you really should try to hit at least a 1 download minimum. Just for ease of use sake.

I agree. At the very least 25 gb should be there. Makes me wonder if Nintendo will release a model with more space a couple of years from. How likely would that be?

 

[wsippel]

It's very very strange.

If an 8 gig flash drive wasn't bad enough, they've limited it to 3 gigs for some fairly nebulous OS reasons. Requiring access to external storage of some form to download retail games from their interwebs store.

THIS. IS. NINTENDO!

Isn't Joysound preinstalled on every Japanese system? No idea how much space this would occupy, though. It might or might not come with a couple of demo songs, potentially including HD music videos.

 

[Alexios]

Eh, 1 or 0 retail downloads being possible without an external storage medium makes little to no difference. You'd still need a HDD to take real advantage of that service. All the same people would complain even if one game fit to begin with, they'd just replace "omg not even one fits" with "omg only one fits" and otherwise say the same things.

 

[Donnie]

What he has said is first gen of games for 720/PS4 will look like second gen Wii U games and we will not see any difference (eye candy) between Wii U and 720PS4, and his argument is based on dev kits, just like if Wii U "finished kits" will do the same than "unfinished Xbox720 kits". An "unfinished" kit is not the same than "half power" or something like this. Alpha/beta kits have raw power, they are not "weak kits" only because they are not finished. Developers will make better games for Wii U later, there are not doubts, but we don't know yet how powerfull will be Xbox 720 and PS4, and "unfinished" kits, even being unfinished, will allow to show some power.

He didn't.

 

[Donnie]

You can plug in any USB storage you want on 360 too.

You can plug any USB device in but you can't use them all, not completely, and forget SD.

 

[FyreWulff]

http://www.shacknews.com/article/76655/wii-u-storage-is-smaller-than-you-think

Here.

That's... pathetic.

Give me a break. USB hard drives are apparently too hard for the public to understand, but plugging a USB drive into an Xbox or locating the bay door to slot in a HDD just so you can play Halo 4 multiplayer is apparently no problem? Same with expanding a PS3's storage?

Headline for this should be "Internet bitches that problem has solution". Buy USB hard drive, plug in said hard drive, now you're set.