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VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Tears For Fears
Banned
Yeah, no, best versions will always be PC.
Great third party output across the board.
3rd Party games this gen were made with 512MB in mind due to both consoles having similar ram amounts.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Unless MS have some untoward restrictions on third parties forcing parity, making use of the PS4's extra resources isn't going to be much of a challenge, they use basically identical architecture and more RAM is always better.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Microsoft's tactic will only pay off if their console is substantially cheaper than the PS4.
With a new Kinnect and a lot of the HW being designed with multi-media functions, it's possible it won't be more than $50 cheaper than the PS4 - or they might wanna price it the same as the PS4 to get more cash/not be seen as a "worse" console.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Well Sony has rectified their old model. Hence the PC-lite system based on OTS AMD APUs. Gone are the days of the Cell and throwing everything in the system except the kitchen sink. They are the middle ground IMO.
MS was successful being the core system from 2005-2010, but I guess they want those casual dollars.
"Pretty understandable"? Everything you mention is already listed in the old "Yukon" document, that describes a console with just 4 GB of RAM.
People love a underdog so maybe having less power might win the hearts of gamers all over the world.
The most powerful becomes the bad guy to the point where everyone just want to see the weaker one win so you will see reviews where they make the weaker console look better even when the other console is clearly ahead by saying things like "there isn't much of a difference in the two versions of the game despite Xbox 3's lower price.... { continue to name reasons to chose Xbox 3} "
&
"despite PS4's power advantage that comes at a higher price the games are nearly identical & most will not notice unless you own a $20,000 4K TV if you don't own a 4K TV you're better off getting the Xbox 3 which will fit your needs better"
It happens!
The most powerful becomes the bad guy to the point where everyone just want to see the weaker one win so you will see reviews where they make the weaker console look better even when the other console is clearly ahead by saying things like "there isn't much of a difference in the two versions of the game despite Xbox 3's lower price.... { continue to name reasons to chose Xbox 3} "
&
"despite PS4's power advantage that comes at a higher price the games are nearly identical & most will not notice unless you own a $20,000 4K TV if you don't own a 4K TV you're better off getting the Xbox 3 which will fit your needs better"
It happens!
dragonelite
Member
Gonna kill my monster console dream... 
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Xenon
Member
You have to be in the running to be an underdog.
SniperHunter
Banned
Gonna kill my monster console dream...
If MS and Sony make a lot $$$ with their boxes, they will come back strong with Xbox 1080 and PS5. Hopefully GPU tech will allow them to fit a kickass card in the box by that time.
Melchiah
Member
If PS+ continues to offer the same value on PS4, I'd say that will apply to Sony as well.
Wii already won with it's underdog card they can't pull it out again we still remember it's face it's going to have to go to the back of the line.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Damn, some of you guys are jerks. Why are you trying to force Reiko into having your tunnel vision?
Let the dude be open minded. There is nothing wrong with him wanting to not dismiss plausible rumors.
Let the dude be open minded. There is nothing wrong with him wanting to not dismiss plausible rumors.
BruiserBear
Banned
Well, we shouldn't have to worry about that on these new consoles, as both have the same amount of RAM, the same amount of CPU cores, and similar graphics cards.
I think it's a little unlikely the Xbox version of multiplats are going to run poorly. It's quite possible that console will still be the lead platform for most multiplats.
However, what's different now is that the PS4 has this extra overhead that will always be there when they bring their code over to that system, and it's going to be very simple to take advantage of it. At the very minimum turn up the anti aliasing, turn on v-sync, etc.
It can get a little old when people continuously attempt to bring unsubstantiated information into the discussion in hopes of it being treated as credible. Wishful thinking is fine when you label it as such.
nelsonroyale
Member
And implausible ones too surely.
I hope Sony is really smart with pushing PS+. Without crippling free options, they should make it extremely easy to sign up, obvious for people who aren't techies, and the first thing you can do when you turn the console on.
One thing I've found lacking with Sony has been their interface decisions. Aside from XMB (which is great), the system has been a bit awkward to use. PS store has lag and does not data mine to present users with high-interest options based on past purchases and views, the checkout process is a bit clumsy compared to say the App Store, and subscription to PS+ is doing well but would increase noticeably if they made it a little more front and center. I'm assuming they're dealing with all of these issues with their new push for simplicity and convenience and their western design philosophy, but they have a so-so track record.
On a related note, I'm playing skyrim right now on the PS3 and why does it have mandatory system buttons you have to press at the beginning? You don't need to click okay when it tells you to not turn the console off while saving. Duh. Flash a warning and that's it.
There's a distinct difference between plausible rumours, and the batshit crazy ones.
Melchiah
Member
Yeah, the new store was a downgrade from the former. It takes ages to load, and the checkout process is also too lengthy. Although they changed it a bit for the better recently.
And you're right, the XMB settings and the store may be too complicated for the more uninitiated users, who might not even know what PS+ is about. Personally I love XMB, and its clean look, but it could use some added options.
I'm curious what value the PS+ will offer at the time of launch, if the PS3 titles won't work via Gaikai by then.
Those mandatory clicks while loading a game annoy me as well, as I can't just start up the game, and go do something else while it loads. Hopefully they'll be gone next gen, but I doubt that.
Free content in F2P launch offerings (Planetside 2?) would be a nice start. Designating one PS4 digital distro title as a specific "PS+ day one freebie" would also be interesting.
Melchiah
Member
A bundled digital game for early adopters would be quite a good idea.
You probably thought Wii wasn't in the running.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
what's batshit crazy? The dual apu? That's not batshit crazy because we know at least one Microsoft team was working on a dual apu hardware configuration(Yukon) and if Paul Thurrot is right, that was not dropped until last year.
Why dismiss the idea that another team came up with a similar config? Or that things from the Yukon was rolled over into another design.
We are talking about a multi-billion dollar company. They have back up plans for their back up plans. Not to mention the fact that there was that article a few weeks back about Microsoft being on lock down with people with in departments working on projects their supervisors don't even known about.
and I would put money that even if they have chosen a configuration, there are variations of that configuration also.
A product is not complete until it goes into manufacturing.
Now if people think the 8 jaguar core 1.2tf is the next box, that's fine. very logical conclusion. But don't try to impose your logic on to somebody else. Let Reiko think what he thinks. If he wrong, he is wrong.
BruiserBear
Banned
Except that's not true in the world of console creation. These chips are finalized a year or more in advance, as there is so much testing that happens prior to manufacturing.
Sony doubling their RAM was one of the few change that could still be made at this point in the process. Changing entire CPUs or GPUs is not happening, unless the console is going to be delayed.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
They are not plausible. Every day it seems some random forum poster starts a post with "I heard.." or "I read..." and then puts some crap down that gets picked up by people with wishful thinking and then it becomes "rumor". Unless it is a credible source, it is probably pure BS and should not be repeated. It makes sifting through the crap really hard, trying to squash made up rumors by the dozens. Plus people are not open minded, they have confirmation bias, picking "rumors" that they want to be true and ignoring six others they don't.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Magic jizz suddenly became twice as potent.
Two times shooting blanks is still shooting blanks.
This is all based off of one poster on a forum who posted his forst post and got temp banned because he couldn't provide any supporting info. It's possible, but it seems like it would be expensive to me.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
He got unbanned.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I really can't see Durango being any more powerful than PS4, it just seems unnecessary to me to push the boat out so far. I see MS pushing differentiation not raw power as their key selling point.
The only reason I can see them going with a multi-APU setup is for backwards-compatibility, and I'm not sure that's a justifiable expense given the amount of work it'd take to bolt that onto an x64 architecture.
The only reason I can see them going with a multi-APU setup is for backwards-compatibility, and I'm not sure that's a justifiable expense given the amount of work it'd take to bolt that onto an x64 architecture.
I guess there is a possibility that multiple designs still exist, but they couldn't be radically different or else I'm sure devs wouldn't be too impressed. I'm thinking that with Yukon, it was on the table at one point, but they decided to go with a lower powered option to push kinect and make the device affordable and easier to manufacture. It is always fun to speculate.
Heck, I hope there's something radically different with Durango than the leaked specs (good or bad). It's just more fun that way... especially on GAF.
Heck, I hope there's something radically different with Durango than the leaked specs (good or bad). It's just more fun that way... especially on GAF.
I've be concerned about the cost of the components. The cost of creating TWO APUs plus additional MB complexity seems like it would be steep.
I know you didn't, but sometimes people sound like the two are mutually exclusive. Still sounds like Durango would be an attractive box, and if the services they offer in your country interest you, along with their exclusive games, it would be a solid purchase.
There is the risk that MS might need to support it with first party software for longer though, especially if Multiplatform games do perform better on Ps4. But then that is probably good for us.
Xenon
Member
Before I played, maybe. But once I tried it, I loved the thing and even pimped it out to a number of people. It was a new expirience. I've played the WiiU and cant say the same about about it.
The tablet is WiiUs hook. It's just not enough to convince people who aren't already interested in Nintendo's ips to buy the system.
So that makes his insane post make more sense? I dont get what you're suggesting.
People get banned for all-time, months, weeks and some times days.
Graphics Horse
Member
I don't think that was their plan for the 360, if the PS3 wasn't finalised how would they know how multiplats were going to compete? They wanted something that launched early and was competitive, but exactly how it performed against the unlaunched PS3 wasn't completely up to them. They might have lost some advantage in terms of being easier to develop for and not have much of an early launch this time around, but we'll have to see how affected multiplats will really be, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the theoretical differences at this stage.
I found this comparison here. Metro 2033 @ 1920x1200. Radeon 7850 runs at 38fps, while the Radeon 7770 gets 24fps. In Skyrim, the 7850 gets 78.3fps, while the 7770 gets 35.7fps. In Crysis: Warhead, the 7850 gets 35.4fps, while the 7770 only gets 20.7fps.
Melchiah
Member
That's an odd decision when it comes to Xbox, considering games like MGS2 and SH2 performed better on the PS2. Partly because it was a lead platform, and partly because of its better bandwidth, which IIRC made it excel in particle effects and such, like in Zone of the Enders. Not to mention, that many 3rd party games were never released on Xbox.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Good find, additional info:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/7000/7770/pages/radeon-7770.aspx#2
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/7000/7850/Pages/radeon-7850.aspx#3
So the leaked specs has the Durango APU with two more CUs, but clocked ~200Mhz lower, but the resulting FLOPS number is about the same.
Edit: The Orbis GPU has 18 CUs and 60Mhz less clock (thanks JohnnySasaki86). Other stuff is different like memory bandwidths, but that also doesn't take into account the memory contention with the CPU.
Even then it's not the whole story PS4 will have higher bandwidth memory & Xbox 3 is said to have 2 cores & ~ 3GB of Ram reserved for the system.
if things stay the same as the leaks with no extra hardware or tweaks it's going to be a bigger differences than what people keep saying it will be.
And with Need for Speed Hor Pursuit 2 you have the third game that was not performing better on Xbox than on PS2. MGS2 and SH2, while not superior, had other strong points the PS2 versions did not have, like sound and no frigging flickering.
Wait, I forgot Shaodw of Memories which was really abysmal on og Xbox. Then there are the, what, 500 or so multiplats that were supperior on Xbox? Xbox was the plattform of choice for the best multiplats on console. I can't understand how anybody could deny this.
So you are talking about plattform exclusives and not multiplats.
Maybe Sony knew this that's why they decided to announce the PS4 now?
That could be one of the many explanations floating around things can still change who knows.
My bro mynd made a good point.
"If" early rumors are correct, and if this thing has this "planes" chip, there is only one reason to do that and that's dual GPU's.
I would think the second GPU would be used in rendering, rather, as a system/app GPU.
It could be rendering say a youtube video in the corner of the screen while you play the game completely independently.
The dash/apps on one GPU, game running completely independently on the other.
In other words almost zero interaction between game chips and O/S.
Or I don't know maybe the illumiroom projector data if need be.
"If" early rumors are correct, and if this thing has this "planes" chip, there is only one reason to do that and that's dual GPU's.
I would think the second GPU would be used in rendering, rather, as a system/app GPU.
It could be rendering say a youtube video in the corner of the screen while you play the game completely independently.
The dash/apps on one GPU, game running completely independently on the other.
In other words almost zero interaction between game chips and O/S.
Or I don't know maybe the illumiroom projector data if need be.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
You forgot to mention the 7850 tested also has 2 less CU's than PS4, and only a 60mhz clock increase. PS4 GPU has more overall flops as well.
Yep. For mutliplatform releases, it could definitely be the case of a locked 30fps on one console and 60fps on the other. Because devs would rather have a locked 30fps in most cases than a variable 40+fps. Therefor if you cant hit that "perceptual 60fps", you get a locked at 30fps, even though it could go higher.
Yes, the gap will be a bit larger than that.
Cape Verde: (1.28TFLOPS) Durango: (1.23TFLOPS)
Pitcairn: (1.76TFLOPS) PS4: (1.84TFLOPS)
The PS4's GPU will also have a lot more bandwidth and it's rumored (Edge) that devs have lower level hardware access with the PS4's GPU in comparison to Durango.
There is defintely going to be a sizeable difference between the two, but even then it's not going to be the difference between 720p and 1080p games.
This could be a possibilty.
30-40fps games on Durango locked down to 30fps and 50-60fps games on PS4 that devs leave in a variable state.
BruiserBear
Banned
Yup. A lot of people are saying things like "the two consoles are very comparable".
If the specs are accurate, the gap is going to be considerable. Noticeably greater than it was with the PS3/360.