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May I ask what the gist of the original post was?

Seconded. I really want to know what this guy posted that got him banned in 4 minutes.

 

[spirity]

Read a few pages this morning and skipped ahead to this post.

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

Wow.

Sorry for not snipping guys but this post earns it. Needs to be seen on every page. I'm not even invested in a next gen console, I have a gaming pc and its staying that way so what do I care. But from the outside looking in, even I can clearly see what the sane choice would be. Msft has just presented, time and time again, reasons why one should avoid the XB1 like the plague.

 

[Cave Johnson]

The only reason why I came upon this thread is because of the updated title. I would have to say, that surpassed my expectations. It brilliantly encapsulates every possible issue that needs to be addressed and narrows down the ambiguous points revealing the double-talk and hypocrisy behind it. Well done, I salute to you good sir!

 

[Zalman]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

I have nothing to add, but wow, what an amazing post. Microsoft definitely screwed up badly with the Xbox One.

 

[Nibel]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

Damn, this should be printed in flyer-form and spread at Microsoft - sums up our feelings perfectly. The worst console announcement is when you don't announce your console as a console

 

[Panajev2001a]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

Awesome post, thanks!

 

[Trent Strong]

Can we all stop jerking off Foxix now? Jesus.

 

[nib95]

Can we all stop jerking off Foxix now? Jesus.

You sound upset.

 

[mxgt]

Can we all stop jerking off Foxix now? Jesus.

no

 

[dreamfall]

Post #657 = Ether, the shit that makes your soul burn slow.

Everything stated here coherently is exactly how I feel about what's been happening as the launch looms closer. I wish Albert Penello would respond directly to it, but I doubt that'll happen.

 

[Nightengale]

Can we all stop jerking off Foxix now? Jesus.

Outdo him, then.

 

[Roland1979]

Can we all stop jerking off Foxix now? Jesus.

Alright let's quote you instead.

 

[Yondy604]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

Holy shit, this is the best post I have ever read on the internet, let alone neogaf.

 

[Sophia]

Can we all stop jerking off Foxix now? Jesus.

Why? So we can listen to your questionable opinion instead?

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

This right here should be the go-to advice for anyone experiencing a PR backlash. Stop making it worse by talking about it.

 

[spirity]

There is not a single thing that Microsoft has done that is as bad as the ridiculous hyperbole in this thread. All of you who treat game consoles like human right violations are embarrassing.

I have never once cared about who made any console I've owned, and I've owned most of them. I'm super excited for my PS4 and my XBone.

If you use word like "betrayal" when describing a game console company you need to reevaluate your priorities.

I'm a pc gamer through and through, and it will never change. I don't care about the ps4, xb1, wii u, or whatever else. I won't be buying one. I have no emotional attachment to any of those platforms. So I like to think I'm impartial (except 360 controller > anything Sony has produced to date, next gen controllers notwithstanding).

I am, however, not so blind to whats going on that I can't see the bullshit coming from the Msft camp and the arrogant anti-consumer attitude they have. They want to fuck you over. There's no ifs and buts here. Its as plain as day. Sony of course want to extract as much value from you as they can, they're no angels. But Msft is on a whole other level. Come on man, how the hell can you not see? How can you not stand up and say "bullshit" in response to Msft?

Whatever. Buy the XB1 and get the future you're asking for. I'll be on my pc, not giving a damn. But if this shit spreads to the rest of the industry, I'll know its come from the people who wouldn't say "NO" when it started happening.

Its not about picking a side, or gloating when there's an Msft pile-on (and I know -some- of you are doing exactly this, you dicks). Its far bigger than that. The inroads Msft are trying to make will have negative implications on every platform if they're successful. Stand up as a fan of video games and say no. Don't let it happen. If you're on Gaf, you are already more invested than the average gamer into your hobby. You also have a voice. Let them hear it, even if its just a forum post. It counts.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Some of my fellow gamers continue to puzzle me to no end. I look at the statements such as this one or the recent Phil Spencer comment, and I can find nothing controversial about them. Nada. Zilch. It's clear to me as day that they're absolutely true. And yet they cause such shitstorms on places like GAF. I guess some of you guys are in for a rude awakening, that's precisely the direction the whole of this industry is taking.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

Microsoft's only mistake was making online mandatory. Rest was fine.

Steam, Android and iOS have all shown us digital distribution with built in DRM works.

Microsoft are not wrong, the future is all digital. You can't realistically expect the next console to have a disk drive. The Xbone was ahead of its time.

Now integrated TV guide, kinect and esram crippling the hardware ... That's Microsoft's biggest fuck up. Way to look forward with one step then take 3 leaps backwards.

Live TV? have you had your head in the ground for the last few years? On demand is the future. Full stop. This effort put into TV guides and DVR compatibility will be obsolete by the end of the generation. Guarantee we will see new xbone with it removed.

Kinect is useless out side of replacing a remote control, did you not see what motion controls were like last gen? Just horrible.

Finally your specs ... Ergh ...

 

[ChryZ]

#657 gets it

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Great post. If only they would listen.

"Resolution doesn't matter"
"Forza 1080p image"

Bah.

The biggest pet peeve of mine. Fuck off MS. Just Fuck off. He is right though: they killed all the identity it had, at least on my eyes. I was so ready to ditch Sony but I see the opposite.

Oh and post 657 is GODLY. It's everything I wanted to say but couldn't without using "fuck" in every other sentence.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Some of my fellow gamers continue to puzzle me to no end. I look at the statements such as this one or the recent Phil Spencer comment, and I can find nothing controversial about them. Nada. Zilch. It's clear to me as day that they're absolutely true. And yet they cause such shitstorms on places like GAF. I guess some of you guys are in for a rude awakening, that's precisely the direction the whole of this industry is taking.

What direction is that? Because I see Sony taking a totall different direction and one would think its winning alot more of the world over than what MS is doing. Also, science disagrees with his definition of power..

 

[nib95]

Some of my fellow gamers continue to puzzle me to no end. I look at the statements such as this one or the recent Phil Spencer comment, and I can find nothing controversial about them. Nada. Zilch. It's clear to me as day that they're absolutely true. And yet they cause such shitstorms on places like GAF. I guess some of you guys are in for a rude awakening, that's precisely the direction the whole of this industry is taking.

It's obfuscation and downplaying. He's been doing it for months and all the PR he shuffled ended up being bollocks as most people with half an ounce of common sense already knew.

Fact of the matter is, in this context power is not subjective. Instead of Microsoft dancing around it and trying to pass the Xbox One off as somehow comparable to the PS4 in hardware performance given some unknown or un-quantifiable metric, eg balance, some other non existent secret sauce or PR invented rubbish, they need to just shut up about it and stop trying to misinform or fool consumers. The cats out of the bag already, and most people with sense already know the PS4 is considerably more powerful than the Xbox One. That's not a subjective opinion either. It's a matter of fact. It always was. Even from the numbers and hardware analysis.

 

[Coreda]

Congrats on the tag Foxix, you totally deserved it.

 

[Goldmund]

Some of my fellow gamers continue to puzzle me to no end. I look at the statements such as this one or the recent Phil Spencer comment, and I can find nothing controversial about them. Nada. Zilch. It's clear to me as day that they're absolutely true. And yet they cause such shitstorms on places like GAF. I guess some of you guys are in for a rude awakening, that's precisely the direction the whole of this industry is taking.

It's called pragmatics. If your wife cradles her grown abdomen and whispers something that amounts to "it's the future", you might smile an uncertain smile; if a guard leads you through the main gates of the prison you'll inhabit for quite some time and, as he thrusts the prison garb into your hands, grunts something that amounts to "it's the future", you will most certainly scowl.

 

[Hyunashi]

Can we all stop jerking off Foxix now? Jesus.

Someone is salty.
It is just appreciation for a great post.

 

[Facism]

Can we all stop jerking off Foxix now? Jesus.

Such 8dom8 should be repeated long and often.

 

[jwhit28]

I agree with Penello, all digital is the future. The reason people weren't ready yet though is because for a generation Sony and Microsoft offered us nothing to look forward too. I think paying for Live is the perfect example of how to do it right. No one enjoys subscriptions but comparing PSN and Live early on I atleast felt I was paying for the superior product. While 360 used its price vs PS3 to make Live seem even less painful, Sony is doing the same thing with PS+ and the free games during your subscription. If from day 1 Xbox Marketplace would have been making the same impression as Steam, I believe very few people would have had a problem with the digital push. Even now though it seems like they still don't get it. How long are marketplace games going to sit at MSRP while dropping in price at retail a month after release? When will they make seasonal sales an event? Where are the bundles, giveaways, and metagames with a focus on using Live features to secure free stuff? It was like Microsoft wanted all the benefits from operating a store such as steam with even more control while leaving customers with all the negatives.

 

[commedieu]

I agree with Penello, all digital is the future. The reason people weren't ready yet though is because for a generation Sony and Microsoft offered us nothing to look forward too. I think paying for Live is the perfect example of how to do it right. No one enjoys subscriptions but comparing PSN and Live early on I atleast felt I was paying for the superior product. While 360 used its price vs PS3 to make Live seem even less painful, Sony is doing the same thing with PS+ and the free games during your subscription. If from day 1 Xbox Marketplace would have been making the same impression as Steam, I believe very few people would have had a problem with the digital push. Even now though it seems like they still don't get it. How long are marketplace games going to sit at MSRP while dropping in price at retail a month after release? When will they make seasonal sales an event? Where are the bundles, giveaways, and metagames with a focus on using Live features to secure free stuff? It was like Microsoft wanted all the benefits from operating a store such as steam with even more control while leaving customers with all the negatives.

penello isnt just saying the future is digital. everyone knows the "future is digital" any bloke can assume that, hes also saying the audience wasnt ready for their non existent message, and is putting the responsibility of understanding their non message, on the consumer. how can you agree with the entirety of that message, considering the murky pr, the "designed by gamers" / who they didnt appear to communicate with.

 

[Peter Bazooka]

You sound upset.

That's his gimmick.

 

[BBboy20]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

You're a god damn hero just for posting that.

 

[xBuTcHeRx]

MS wants to be NEW WORLD ORDER on the gaming industry. No thanks, I get enough subliminal garbage on the radio! When are the shareholders gonna go and force BILL GATES and Balmer to fall down?

 

[shinra-bansho]

I agree with Penello, all digital is the future. The reason people weren't ready yet though is because for a generation Sony and Microsoft offered us nothing to look forward too. I think paying for Live is the perfect example of how to do it right. No one enjoys subscriptions but comparing PSN and Live early on I atleast felt I was paying for the superior product. While 360 used its price vs PS3 to make Live seem even less painful, Sony is doing the same thing with PS+ and the free games during your subscription. If from day 1 Xbox Marketplace would have been making the same impression as Steam, I believe very few people would have had a problem with the digital push. Even now though it seems like they still don't get it. How long are marketplace games going to sit at MSRP while dropping in price at retail a month after release? When will they make seasonal sales an event? Where are the bundles, giveaways, and metagames with a focus on using Live features to secure free stuff? It was like Microsoft wanted all the benefits from operating a store such as steam with even more control while leaving customers with all the negatives.

That's the thing, if Microsoft believed in an all-digital future, then they should have gone all-in with a product that presented such.

They should have created a digital-only box and/or heavily incentivized digital purchasing through their pricing structures. This is how other digital storefronts have transitioned consumers to digital media.

But instead they tried to alter how physical retail worked in order to both have a digital system, preventing people from freely trading, selling and gifting, while keeping large retail partners satisfied. It's why the talk of digital only is probably still premature; because even setting aside bandwidth speed and caps, for the foreseeable future, console makers are still going to be beholden to physical retail to at the very least sell the hardware and thus they cannot incentivize digital at the risk of earning retail ire.

 

[kartu]

I agree with Penello, all digital is the future. The reason people weren't ready yet...

May I ask, exactly what we weren't ready yet for?
For digital? Why must it be ALL customers at once, may I ask?
How is stuff digitally sold on PS3/360 gen any less digital than the "digital future" digital?

The wanted to REMOVE OPTIONS and there is no "clear message" that can fix this.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I agree with Penello, all digital is the future. The reason people weren't ready yet though is because for a generation Sony and Microsoft offered us nothing to look forward too. I think paying for Live is the perfect example of how to do it right. No one enjoys subscriptions but comparing PSN and Live early on I atleast felt I was paying for the superior product. While 360 used its price vs PS3 to make Live seem even less painful, Sony is doing the same thing with PS+ and the free games during your subscription. If from day 1 Xbox Marketplace would have been making the same impression as Steam, I believe very few people would have had a problem with the digital push. Even now though it seems like they still don't get it. How long are marketplace games going to sit at MSRP while dropping in price at retail a month after release? When will they make seasonal sales an event? Where are the bundles, giveaways, and metagames with a focus on using Live features to secure free stuff? It was like Microsoft wanted all the benefits from operating a store such as steam with even more control while leaving customers with all the negatives.

No, people were not ready to bend over and take it in the ass. The obtrusive anti consumerist polices of the Xbone deserved all the scorn and hate that MS got. MS, clearly, has not abandoned their anti consumer crap, and gamers should be very vigilant about taking their crap.

 

[jwhit28]

penello isnt just saying the future is digital. everyone knows the "future is digital" any bloke can assume that, hes also saying the audience wasnt ready for their non existent message, and is putting the responsibility of understanding their non message, on the consumer. how can you agree with the entirety of that message, considering the murky pr, the "designed by gamers" / who they didnt appear to communicate with.

That's what I'm saying. I think most consumers would have been ready to meet Microsoft halfway if Microsoft could have delivered all the benefits of digital we are used to on PC. All Microsoft brought to the table was "don't you hate changing disc?". The failure was on Microsoft's end, not the consumers. Let's see if they (or Sony and Nintendo) can realize it over the next 7+ years.

 

[xBuTcHeRx]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

This is a sexy read.

 

[Goldmund]

May I ask, exactly what we weren't ready yet for?
For digital? Why must it be ALL customers at once, may I ask?
How is stuff digitally sold on PS3/360 gen any less digital than the "digital future" digital?

The wanted to REMOVE OPTIONS and there is no "clear message" that can fix this.

Indeed. They wanted to trap the future now so that it wouldn't come to pass (in a fashion that is detrimental to their "vision", which would have been a possibility).

 

[The Maverick]

Some of my fellow gamers continue to puzzle me to no end. I look at the statements such as this one or the recent Phil Spencer comment, and I can find nothing controversial about them. Nada. Zilch. It's clear to me as day that they're absolutely true. And yet they cause such shitstorms on places like GAF. I guess some of you guys are in for a rude awakening, that's precisely the direction the whole of this industry is taking.

If I recall, you were getting the Xbox even with the DRM, weren't you?

 

[Thrakier]

Boom. Pending some miraculous turnaround in both PR and consumer perception, this is going to be the next Dreamcast. The next two months are going to be extremely entertaining.

It won't. There are plenty of people, even here on GAF, who are fine with buying weak hardware just for a crytek exclusive, zombie game 3 and racing game 5. Why?

Because gameplay is no.1.

 

[sonicmj1]

I do think that the future is going to go more digital, but saying that "people weren't ready" is stupid. Lots of people are ready for that in theory. They accept it in other industries, and there's a large market that would accept it in games. They already do accept it on PC.

The problem is that people don't want Microsoft, as they are now, to have the keys to that digital future, and that's a matter of trust. A centrally managed service with digital trade-ins, a central digital distribution store, and locking every purchase to one's digital account aren't inherently bad things, even with some onerous restrictions. But they have to be backed up by flexible, consumer-friendly pricing and a commitment to the long-term stability of the service. When I look at how Microsoft has handled the Games on Demand store on the 360, or at their recent complete shutdown of XBL on the first Xbox, I can't trust that those conditions will exist.

When Valve first launched Steam, it was buggy and lacking many of its current benefits. It wasn't popular for a long time. But they had the confidence to see it through in the long term, and develop it to the point where they earned people's trust. Microsoft didn't have that confidence, and backed down when the conversation got heated. They assumed the problem was the market, when really, they were the problem. The indecision they showed is exactly the reason that people shouldn't trust them to protect their games over the long term.

Instead of saying, "People just weren't ready to make that leap right away," or, "... we never got a chance to have a rational conversation about what we were trying to do," they should be speaking from a position of humility. "We hadn't done enough to convince people to make that leap. We intend to prove to our consumers that they can trust us entirely with the future of their games." Trust is easier to lose than it is to gain, and gaining trust takes time, but one can just point to Sony's work in the last year to see how much can be done if a company makes honest, positive steps towards their customers.

 

[Steroyd]

Some of my fellow gamers continue to puzzle me to no end. I look at the statements such as this one or the recent Phil Spencer comment, and I can find nothing controversial about them. Nada. Zilch. It's clear to me as day that they're absolutely true. And yet they cause such shitstorms on places like GAF. I guess some of you guys are in for a rude awakening, that's precisely the direction the whole of this industry is taking.

You didn't find anything wrong with "power is subjective" at all?

I find it rich that it's all about "playing games and not the resolution", when they were telling indie devs to bog off back in June (Even Nintendo got with the program, let that sink in for a moment), and when launch line-ups between PS4 and Xbox One were compared on GAF there were comments among some, about how indies didn't count because folks wanted to play games that showed off what the system can do with AAA games, I hope these aren't the same folks that are being sold on Phil Spencer's current comments.

And I'm not seeing a 100% digital future to be honest, unlike Music and Video's there's too much of a chasm in difference in game sizes if i just look at the Launch title download thread And i can only assume game sizes will increase as the generation goes on, bundled with a size jump in even the generation after that unlike music where I know 16GB will get me a ton of content no matter which era, I'm not sure a 1 TB HDD will last me 1-2 years with the PS4.

 

[rdrr gnr]

It won't. There are plenty of people, even here on GAF, who are fine with buying weak hardware just for a crytek exclusive, zombie game 3 and racing game 5. Why?

Because gameplay is no.1.

They aren't buying it for "gameplay."

 

[xBuTcHeRx]

XB1 will go back to its DRM atrocity. We're gonna be there excuse, based on the numbers of people who are online, who buys more on what format, etc.
It's only a matter of time. No one should expect M$ to be kind especially when it tries to push it's message across. The going digital idea is inevitable yes, but the problem is the control that we'll have on our product/license we own. They can snag that $hit away however they please.

 

[jwhit28]

I do think that the future is going to go more digital, but saying that "people weren't ready" is stupid. Lots of people are ready for that in theory. They accept it in other industries, and there's a large market that would accept it in games. They already do accept it on PC.

The problem is that people don't want Microsoft, as they are now, to have the keys to that digital future, and that's a matter of trust. A centrally managed service with digital trade-ins, a central digital distribution store, and locking every purchase to one's digital account aren't inherently bad things, even with some onerous restrictions. But they have to be backed up by flexible, consumer-friendly pricing and a commitment to the long-term stability of the service. When I look at how Microsoft has handled the Games on Demand store on the 360, or at their recent complete shutdown of XBL on the first Xbox, I can't trust that those conditions will exist.

When Valve first launched Steam, it was buggy and lacking many of its current benefits. It wasn't popular for a long time. But they had the confidence to see it through in the long term, and develop it to the point where they earned people's trust. Microsoft didn't have that confidence, and backed down when the conversation got heated. They assumed the problem was the market, when really, they were the problem. The indecision they showed is exactly the reason that people shouldn't trust them to protect their games over the long term.

Instead of saying, "People just weren't ready to make that leap right away," or, "... we never got a chance to have a rational conversation about what we were trying to do," they should be speaking from a position of humility. "We hadn't done enough to convince people to make that leap. We intend to prove to our consumers that they can trust us entirely with the future of their games." Trust is easier to lose than it is to gain, and gaining trust takes time, but one can just point to Sony's work in the last year to see how much can be done if a company makes honest, positive steps towards their customers.

Exactly. The console makers have this whole generation to "have a rational conversation" with consumers. Give people a reason to see digital as an overall benefit starting the next few weeks. Not in PR before the next round of consoles.

 

[Thrakier]

They aren't buying it for "gameplay."

Of course not, but that is how they justify it for themselves. No one is saying I NEED Kinect, or I NEED that TV thing. No.1 answer is always: Only Gameplay counts.

 

[Kaako]

That Foxix post. I said god dayumn. Well deserved tag.

 

[CTLance]

Thanks for the thread title change. Not gonna quote the post, but I agree with everything in it.

So, uh.... What's the point of posting in this thread. Pack it up, guys. We're done here. Foxix killed it with his post. Hot damn.

 

[commedieu]

http://www.cinemablend.com/m/games/...ut-Xbox-One-DRM-So-Why-Didn-t-They-60430.html

cinamablend responding to penello.

sad.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Yeah, ya know what? I think this seals it for me. I don't think I'll ever buy an Xbox console at any point and time with these people at the helm. No fucking way man...

Microsoft: I'm not going to magically no longer care about my consumer rights a few yeas down the line. I'm either going to be just as upset that you tried this bullshit or even more so. There will be no scaling back of my contempt for this type of business practice. Period.

This DRM shit, the way you're trying to implement it, benefits no one but you and your partners. So fuck off with it.

 

[Xenex]

I've got no fucking clue. MS has collectively had its head up it's own ass for a while now. I want to critique this whole mess but frankly they've bungled this thing up so hard it's difficult to know where to start.

Albert, I know you read Gaf. You need to stop talking about this. Period. Full stop. No more. Shush.

Every time you or any other MS representative goes on the record to discuss the DRM policies you take an inherently anti consumer approach even if it's not your intent. Which at this point I'm going to assume it's your intent given the frequency with which you and your cohorts put this bungle on the consumer. You can't claim that consumers weren't ready for your vision of the future. We will never be ready for your vision of an all digital future because neither you nor anyone else at MS has never, not once, made it clear what exactly that vision is, or was, could be or will be.

Simply state that Microsoft misread the market. You operated in a vacuum under the assumption that your consumers wanted certain things that we didn't and now you're having to back track. That's fine. You guys made a mistake, it happens. It's time to reread your audience and try again. What you can't do is continue to allude to the fact that consumers weren't ready for your product. That's insulting, and it insinuates that you still have plans to fuck us over in the future. Consumers are naturally entitled. We have to be. We're paying large sums of cash, in this case a premium, for your product. We have certain expectations based on how you present that product and once that transaction is complete we're naturally entitled to complete ownership over that product. We also have expectations for your product based on competing products and services from other manufacturers. You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money.

The DRM strategy as we know it is beneficial to no one but Microsoft and its partners. This statement is true based on the information you have given us. You can claim that miscommunications and disorganization led to dissemination of inaccurate rumors, but the truth of the matter is that the only time you've detailed any consumer benefit was AFTER you shut the DRM down. We also had it on good insider authority that those claims regarding game sharing were complete bullshit and you're lying to us. All the "facts" you attempted to detail to consumers were completely contradictory during the period of time immediately following the initial announcement. Every further clarification only led to further confusion as your company continued to contradict itself. Repeatedly. These are not signs of miscommunications. These are signs of a critical lack of vision and fundamental misunderstanding of your target audience and it shows.

Right now Sony is assaulting you with precision strikes in the market that matters the most during launches, the core gamer audience. You need to buckle the fuck down and figure out what your product is, and who it's for. Right now I can't figure out who this product is for, or why anyone should want it. If it's for the hardcore gamer what are the benefits of paying for XBL over PSN+? You're entering a new generation and Sony is catching up significantly. Voice chat is no longer an appropriate answer. You've failed to clarify on the future of the Games With Gold promotion. At first it was temporary, now it's not? The offerings have been substandard when compared to PS+ over the period of time since it was first announced. Your product is no longer the preferred place to play multiplatform titles and you have virtually no first party resources to draw from. The last entry of your largest IP, halo, was not received well by it's audience and you've lost a chunk of your third party exclusive content over the past generation. As a consumer why should I believe that this won't happen again? Why should I, as a gamer, buy a Xbox One when judging by your track record you've nearly abandoned the 360 halfway through it's life and let a massive series like Mass Effect go multiplatform. It seems to me like this will probably happen again and most major titles I can just wait for.

Is this for the casual gamer? If so why aren't we seeing more kinect games? If so why is it the most expensive console on the market? Where is the content that's going to blow the casual market away? The original kinect was successful because it was a novel add on. A new way of interacting with a product you already had in your household. This is not the case for you any more. The original Wii took off because it was something entirely new, original, and extremely affordable. It was a novelty. This is also not the case for the Xbox One. The family/casual market, if there's much of one left, is going to Nintendo. They have the stronger family friendly IPs. You either need to focus on them or drop the kinect.

Is this a device for the mass market? Designed to integrate into television and media services? It can't be, once again it's the most expensive console no the market. It can't compete in price to something like the Apple TV, or even the Vita TV, a device that at least makes sense as a cheap complimentary purchase to a product a consumer will already own. If that's the case then why haven't we heard more about these television and film products? Where is the info on Remedy's new game that's supposedly blending video games and television entertainment? We know virtually nothing about how it plays, and we know virtually nothing about the television series. Are there other projects like that in the works? If it's designed to compliment a cable subscription why can't it function as a DVR? What benefit is there to a $500 black box that functions as little more than a glorified TV remote? Why aren't you partnering with cable providers? Why are the TV services so severely limited globally?

Microsoft, who is this product for? On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console. The problem is that the title of "jack of all trades" implies a level of competency in these services that is glaringly absent from your strategy. You lack vision. Period. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming the consumers.

Shut the fuck up, buckle the fuck down, figure out who you're targeting, and fix this.

/end rant

This is brilliant, it clearly outlines everything MS is doing wrong but some how MS can't see this themselves. The last paragraph really does sum up the Xbox One quite nicely; "Xbox One: Jack of all trades - Master of none".

 

[Wedge7]

Saw the thread earlier and didnt bother reading it, as I didnt want to hear more tired bullshit from Pennello, and I figured the thread would probably inevitably just resort to the same type of stuff that normally occurs in these type of threads. Saw the updated thread title and the curiosity demanded I goto dat post #657.

Wow, good stuff. One of the rare times I've read something on the internet and actually was physically nodding to myself and saying "Yes, exactly!" Just echoing the sentiments of many when I say it captured the tone and message that I wanted to convey, but didnt have the proper words or argument to properly communicate. Nice one.