It's not like they haven't already jumped into the microtransaction business
I still think that microtransactions themselves aren't the problem but how they are implemented. And it's good that this shit gets called out on Forza 5
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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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I still think that microtransactions themselves aren't the problem but how they are implemented. And it's good that this shit gets called out on Forza 5
Look, okay? In the 2 hours time I would have spent grinding for credits for the car, I went to work and made $20. Then I bought the car for $3 only. So in a way, microtransactions made me profit by $17 in real life.
/sarcasm
Microtransactions have been around for quite some time now, implemented by basically every major publisher; we're long past the introduction stage
Microtransactions have been around but aren't the default like DLCs have become. Microsoft is now attempting to make them the default too.
Wasn't EA already putting them in all their games as default? Anyway, just like all DLC isn't bad so aren't all micro transactions bad. There's a reason it didn't blow up like this when there were microtransactions in forza 3,4 and horizon. When it's done well people can actually profit from it (free content updates in Mass Effect 3)
N7Commander95
Member
Microtransactions can be ok. Eg Mass Effect 3 Multiple free DLC, but in Forza's case it is being ridiculously abused.
Hi Gaf, finally got approved =)
Been wanting to post my opinion on Forza for very long, finally I can.
So being an avid Forza fan, owning 2, 3, 4 and Horizon, I managed to get a X1 with Forza 5 Day 1 Pre order in the few hours it was still in stock in the UK.
As I got closer to release, my doubts on Forza and X1 itself seemed to grow, and only on the 17th November did I finally decide to cancel.
The direction Forza has taken is really sad, from being a great community based game with huge creativity and attention to detail, it seems like they are now taking advantage of their fanbase with Day 1 DLC, Micro-transactions and the lack of community features. I am very sad, I feel worse for those who had the Fanatec wheels too.
But I digress, this is a really big matter and I hope a lot of people speak out against this business model, it seems that even the official Forza forums have realized the game is a huge money grab.
Eventhough I thought that Forza 4 was way to easy to earn money and level up, I think Forza 5 has gone too far and made it a much more painful grind to push gamers to buy tokens, in Forza 4 I would never to bothered as being a top 1% player i could easily get 250K cr by playing rivals (great game mode). But i also thought that free upgrades and free cars did make it too easy. They should have just stuck to discounted upgrades, but no more than 50-70% off RRP. I never felt in Forza 4 that i could not attain and upgrade any car within reasonable timeframe, but the sounds of Forza 5 players make it seem they have deliberately changed the mechanics to persuade you to pay money to progress and this is unacceptable.
For me, I am now contemplating buying a G27 and getting my racing fix from Assetto Corsa, and hopefully if the PS4 supports the G27, I may buy a PS4>7 in the future.
It took me great effort to cancel as Forza is my favorite game and one of the games I have put countless hours into. I hope to god F6 fixes this mess.
Been wanting to post my opinion on Forza for very long, finally I can.
So being an avid Forza fan, owning 2, 3, 4 and Horizon, I managed to get a X1 with Forza 5 Day 1 Pre order in the few hours it was still in stock in the UK.
As I got closer to release, my doubts on Forza and X1 itself seemed to grow, and only on the 17th November did I finally decide to cancel.
The direction Forza has taken is really sad, from being a great community based game with huge creativity and attention to detail, it seems like they are now taking advantage of their fanbase with Day 1 DLC, Micro-transactions and the lack of community features. I am very sad, I feel worse for those who had the Fanatec wheels too.
But I digress, this is a really big matter and I hope a lot of people speak out against this business model, it seems that even the official Forza forums have realized the game is a huge money grab.
Eventhough I thought that Forza 4 was way to easy to earn money and level up, I think Forza 5 has gone too far and made it a much more painful grind to push gamers to buy tokens, in Forza 4 I would never to bothered as being a top 1% player i could easily get 250K cr by playing rivals (great game mode). But i also thought that free upgrades and free cars did make it too easy. They should have just stuck to discounted upgrades, but no more than 50-70% off RRP. I never felt in Forza 4 that i could not attain and upgrade any car within reasonable timeframe, but the sounds of Forza 5 players make it seem they have deliberately changed the mechanics to persuade you to pay money to progress and this is unacceptable.
For me, I am now contemplating buying a G27 and getting my racing fix from Assetto Corsa, and hopefully if the PS4 supports the G27, I may buy a PS4>7 in the future.
It took me great effort to cancel as Forza is my favorite game and one of the games I have put countless hours into. I hope to god F6 fixes this mess.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
I agree. Nothing wrong with micro transactions just do them right ffs. First they should be cheap as in micro and should be for fluff not large portions of a game. They also shouldn't lead to punishing grind mechanics for those not willing to pay cash.
I think this is a fair point, tbh I wouldnt care if the prices were high, the matter is that they have changed the game progression to make it more grindy so people are more forced into paying.
For example, in Forza 4 you could use any car stock online. But in F5 you cannot as they are locked out, only a couple of cars are available in freeplay/online (excl your garage). This means if you want to drive a car and/or upgrade you have to get enough cr to do so, in F4 again no problem, but in F5 they purposely made it really difficult to earn credits to get people to pay, and this is what im against. The "balance" is off. Not only that, cars that you dont own make very little XP points when you race online in F5.
Green Yoshi
Member
Project Gotham Racing 3 > Forza Motorsport 5.
I played the game for a couple hours last night and played in three classes.
As I progressed through each class I was able to buy the best cars in each class add on a few mods and still have heaps of credits left over.
Currently I have 100,000 credits just sitting there which I don't need at the moment and I've only just scratched the surface.
Maybe its just easier for me because I can play without any assists against higher than average drivatars....but its like any game I guess, you need to play it to progress.
You definitely don't need to spend any money though so I don't know why there is a big fuss.
Its a brilliant game, if you like cars and you don't give it a shot, youre missing out.
As I progressed through each class I was able to buy the best cars in each class add on a few mods and still have heaps of credits left over.
Currently I have 100,000 credits just sitting there which I don't need at the moment and I've only just scratched the surface.
Maybe its just easier for me because I can play without any assists against higher than average drivatars....but its like any game I guess, you need to play it to progress.
You definitely don't need to spend any money though so I don't know why there is a big fuss.
Its a brilliant game, if you like cars and you don't give it a shot, youre missing out.
damn, and those guys love forza
ebullientprism
Member
Maybe you should try reading the thread as to WHY there is a big fuss? Everyone already knows you dont need to spend any money.
I....wow.
2200$ to unlock everything in the game?
Like many people have said I echo the sentiment - vote with your wallets.
This is pure highway robbery. If this is what next gen is going to become count me out. I've held off on a PS4 because there was nothing at launch (I know forza is XB1 - I'm commenting on next gen on a whole) but now I might watch the forums before I even purchase next gen.
Did any of the reviews mention what the OP said?
2200$ to unlock everything in the game?
Like many people have said I echo the sentiment - vote with your wallets.
This is pure highway robbery. If this is what next gen is going to become count me out. I've held off on a PS4 because there was nothing at launch (I know forza is XB1 - I'm commenting on next gen on a whole) but now I might watch the forums before I even purchase next gen.
Did any of the reviews mention what the OP said?
That's IMO the most important point:
VVV said:
One can excuse the reduced amount of content with development time, but there is just no justification for this downgrade other than their motivation to push people, especially casuals, into buying XP boosts and/or cars.
damn MS
I guess my phrasing was too convincing - my tongue was so far in-cheek it was sticking out the other side when I wrote that. I am sure that Forza's onerous structure was already in-place well before DRM-gate.
NullPointer
Member
Nice to see the word getting out, and from that outlet too. I keep up with VVV all the time.
Nah, I got it, I was just riffing off of your post ;P
But I've seen Forza 5's antics justified with the used games canard several times now, but you'd think if that was the case we'd see digital downloads with less of this stuff considering they are always bought new with no resale option.
I think its safe to assume that if used games disappeared off the face of the Earth tomorrow we'd *still* see monetization of this magnitude along with it. Hell, even if we were forced into always online platforms, I have no reason to doubtt that publishers would still try to pull this. Its more revenue, period. Its executives "learning the lessons of the mobile space".
cripterion
Member
Thanks for the thread, was thinking of buying this but now I won't bite the bullet.
Nope. Microtransactions in a non-free game are inherently wrong, there is no way to make them right.
Microtransactions create a game design "conflict of interest" where it is in the best interest of the developer to deliberately make the game more tedious so people buy their way into the tediousness.
That sort of shit is only justified in free to play games as it is the business model the game is built around for. But if I buy a game, it better be designed to be not shitty on purpose.
I agree with this. If I see this in any retail game I shall not buy it. Full stop. One more reason to find something else to do with my time...
SneakyStephan
Banned
I'd laugh but there's a few people on gaf who have unironically stated this
Hi Guys,
I just downloaded the Game and can't find anywhere where I can get the Day One car pack or where I can buy the Limited Edition car pack. I thought I would be in cars or in marketplace, but in cars you only get single cars and Marketplace says "Coming Soon" and I cant open it.
Any ideas where I can find those?
I just downloaded the Game and can't find anywhere where I can get the Day One car pack or where I can buy the Limited Edition car pack. I thought I would be in cars or in marketplace, but in cars you only get single cars and Marketplace says "Coming Soon" and I cant open it.
Any ideas where I can find those?
weekend_warrior
Banned
I can't speak for the most recent Forza since I stopped playing then after #2, but in GT5 the most expensive car was 20,000,000 (there were 3 that price, another handful $10 million+), the fastest way to grind early in the games release was replaying "extreme level" races which would net about $100,000 in ~3 minutes. That's about 10 hours of grinding. However, later on they started releasing "seasonal" events the best of which would net about 250k/2 minutes [someone correct me if I'm wrong]. Furthermore, you could cheat the system by creating a new PSN profile, making your birthday in the year 1967, GT5 had a random "birthday present" (a car in the year of your birth) it would send you, so you could take the present and gift it to your main account.
Also worth noting it that GT5 didn't have every car available to drive in arcade mode, like Forza 5, but they introduced a system where you could put any car you owned in a special "online garage" and any of your friends could use it (but not keep it) in their game.
You don't need to spend money to buy the cars you want.
The option to buy the cars is there if you want, which yes is a rip off and should be gone, but why would anyone want to buy the cars if you can earn them for free?
They aren't forcing you to do it.
How is this bad at all? If some moron wants to spend cash for a fake car, then let him. It doesn't make my game experience any different by someone else paying cash on Forza. And if this leads to some crazy free to play/pay to win Forza game in the future, I just won't buy it.
weekend_warrior
Banned
How about reading the thread? Fuck, how about reading the first post in the thread?
NullPointer
Member
It does though. It affects the design of the game in terms of how much content you get on-disk and accessible at release as opposed to DLC, how restricted your access to the cars are, the game's overall progression curve, avenues for gaining credits, discounts, etc.
You also get pestered to open your wallet for XP boosters and for rivals challenges that require DLC cars and packages.
The more people buy into this stuff, the more we'll see, the more the in-game progression will be skewed, and the higher the ceiling on these prices will go, which means that even a scant small percentage of buyers will justify even more in-game purchases down the line.
Event OT has wrong infos in it... This thread is bs
NullPointer
Member
Feel free to provide corrections and I'll update the OP.
cutmeamango
Banned
Still no one with the game in a higher tier of events with data on pay rate and multiplier / race time?
Pretty much, EA would put in microtransactions for their games, but they were shortcuts if you wanted to get content before they were available to obtain in the game (I think Dead Space did this), what I didn't like about how EA does things is that they insert the content in the game and when you click on it, it takes you straight to the PSN/XBL stores to purchase said content, Need for Speed Most Wanted was fucking horrendus doing just that with the McClaren F1 and the Bughatti Veyron.
Some people will never understand why microtransactions in a non-free game are wrong. They will forever dismiss it as merely a bunch of whiny people complaining irrationally over something "you can just ignore", without ever fully grasping how it damages the overall game experience.
Its late. I am going to send you a pm tomorrow with OT quotes which are wrong. Just dont edit it tonight, so i can grab the stuff in the morning.
I ll keep the quoted opinions out of it, just going to point out wrong facts.
I could play through Dead Space 3 without ever needing to grind or feeling like being locked out of content.
If done right the those deals should only appeal to casual gamers who either don't feel like investing any time or think the game is too hard.
Tons and tons of people also enjoyed playing through Forza horizon without buying any tokens. It can most definitely work and doesn't inherently ruin game design
NullPointer
Member
Sounds good.
QuicheFontaine
Member
How about you just post it in the thread instead of sending a PM?
seattle6418
Member
It took me six months of grinding to get all the cars i wanted on GT5. It just a broken gameplay design. The fact that some developers are giving you the option of fast forwarding the grind, it just show us that even they know ho broken their design is.
Yep, you would be a fool to believe that the DLC is just a "convenience for lazy players".
Wait, they are selling tunes? As in, settings for cars that are posted on the internet? I guess people buying this game really deserve all the BS surrounding it.
You couldn't be more wrong. If they wanted rare cars given to players based on skill they would do it by online rankings, competitions or so on. Repeating races or buying money has zero to do with skill.
NullPointer
Member
This would be preferred, definitely. Put it out there.
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