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NYPD kill a man after he breaks up a fight between others.

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Mesousa

Banned
So preach break down of the system and worry about how it should be replaced later? Seems responsible.

I said I think the entire system should be replaced, but I don't think I've specifically preached that when I don't believe revolutionary discourse is at that point though.

I have preached that people living in the state of revolution should be educated in the action of it as it would provide a means to protect themselves against the reality in which we saw in that video.
 
I said I think the entire system should be replaced, but I don't think I've specifically preached that when I don't believe revolutionary discourse is at that point though.

I have preached that people living in the state of revolution should be educated in the action of it as it would provide a means to protect themselves against the reality in which we saw in that video.

Aye, but its irresponsible to preach such a thing without supplying a more viable guiding light. You are stoking the flames of change without the proper educational model to control its destructive force. The responsibility of a revolutionary isn't to wantonly educate the masses without concern for what they will do with that knowledge. What do you think will happen to a bunch of uneducated, angry people without the slightest inclination towards what it takes for adequate self-governance?

It is the height of negligence not to also place in their hands the ideas and tools for reconstruction.

(And this isn't even getting into the fact that I detest civil disobedience when we have appropriate avenues for change already in the system.)
 

Infinite

Member
he's recognizing that there is a problem and pointing out what that problem is. To give him shit for not coming up with a "solution" in the same breath is rather silly.
 
he's recognizing that there is a problem and pointing out what that problem is. To give him shit for not coming up with a "solution" in the same breath is rather silly.

Its the equivalent of giving a toddler a lighter and saying "look at this engineering marvel, isn't it grand?" and allowing them to run off with the lighter without giving them adequate warnings. He isn't just saying there is a problem, he is preaching educating people on how to oppose the government, but not telling them how they should effectuate the change afterwards.
 
Aye, but its irresponsible to preach such a thing without supplying a more viable guiding light. You are stoking the flames of change without the proper educational model to control its destructive force. The responsibility of a revolutionary isn't to wantonly educate the masses without concern for what they will do with that knowledge. What do you think will happen to a bunch of uneducated, angry people without the slightest inclination towards what it takes for adequate self-governance?

It is the height of negligence not to also place in their hands the ideas and tools for reconstruction.

(And this isn't even getting into the fact that I detest civil disobedience when we have appropriate avenues for change already in the system.)

well this is some vile, naked paternal authoritarianism if i ever saw some
 

Mesousa

Banned
Aye, but its irresponsible to preach such a thing without supplying a more viable guiding light. You are stoking the flames of change without the proper educational model to control its destructive force. The responsibility of a revolutionary isn't to wantonly educate the masses without concern for what they will do with that knowledge. What do you think will happen to a bunch of uneducated, angry people without the slightest inclination towards what it takes for adequate self-governance?

It is the height of negligence not to also place in their hands the ideas and tools for reconstruction.

(And this isn't even getting into the fact that I detest civil disobedience when we have appropriate avenues for change already in the system.)

Thing is, no person is going to fall out of the sky and solve your issues for you. You will, and I know its unthinkable in the culture in which we live in today, have to get off your ass and work to create your future. That is where revolutionary education comes in. Educate yourself so that you can see for yourself what goals you want for yourself and your community. You will respect that a lot more than if some random charismatic guy comes in and does it for you. You love the things you put work into. That is revolutionary action. People putting in work to solve the issues they see.

The masses would not be uneducated by the time they implement their ideas because that would be after the education phase.
 
well this is some vile, naked paternal authoritarianism if i ever saw some

No, this is not some Hobbesian, leviathan stance on human nature. It is a stance on the responsibility of revolutionaries not to just light the fires of revolution and watch them burn, but to carefully control the burn of the fire so it doesn't rage out of control and destroy civilized society.

Thing is, no person is going to fall out of the sky and solve your issues for you. You will, and I know its unthinkable in the culture in which we live in today, have to get off your ass and work to create your future. That is where revolutionary education comes in. Educate yourself so that you can see for yourself what goals you want for yourself and your community. You will respect that a lot more than if some random charismatic guy comes in and does it for you. You love the things you put work into. That is revolutionary action. People putting in work to solve the issues they see.

The masses would not be uneducated by the time they implement their ideas because that would be after the education phase.
I didn't say you should dictate the change, merely you have a responsibility and an obligation, because of your stance as educator, to present them with sufficient tools to develop their civic society. That does not mean "give them self defense and watch them run rampant". That means presenting them with logical alternatives to the issue. That is what responsible education is all about. Give them all the tools. Part of that is to develop viable alternatives and include that in your revolutionary education, promote comparative legal discussions, and promote civic minded people. Not just hurrah hurrah we the people.
 

Infinite

Member
Its the equivalent of giving a toddler a lighter and saying "look at this engineering marvel, isn't it grand?" and allowing them to run off with the lighter without giving them adequate warnings. He isn't just saying there is a problem, he is preaching educating people on how to oppose the government, but not telling them how they should effectuate the change afterwards.

I haven't been following you guys discussion so pardon me. But don't you think mass incarcerations, the war on drugs, and systemic police brutality are actually the root of the problem here? That's all the guy was saying as far as I can see.
 
No, this is not some Hobbesian, leviathan stance on human nature. It is a stance on the responsibility of revolutionaries not to just light the fires of revolution and watch them burn, but to carefully control the burn of the fire so it doesn't rage out of control and destroy civilized society.

Ah, if it's just basic vanguardism them carry on, my mistake.
 

Mesousa

Banned
No, this is not some Hobbesian, leviathan stance on human nature. It is a stance on the responsibility of revolutionaries not to just light the fires of revolution and watch them burn, but to carefully control the burn of the fire so it doesn't rage out of control and destroy civilized society.

What if the oppressed dont view the police state of inner cities as "Civilized Society"? :)
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...da-man-death-nypd-chokehold-article-1.1871946

The cop has a history of racist bullshit.

Pantaleo has been accused of false arrest and violating police procedures in two lawsuits, court records show. In one, two African-American plaintiffs won $15,000 apiece after claiming they’d been falsely arrested on Staten Island in 2012 and forced to publicly strip so cops could search them. All charges against them were dropped.

Plaintiff Darren Collins, 46, told The News on Friday night he was too frightened to talk.

“I’m scared of what (the cops) may do to me … I was harassed” after the arrest, he said.

The other lawsuit, filed in Brooklyn in February, alleged Pantaleo trumped up charges to arrest the plaintiff, who was wrongly jailed for a day.
 
What if the oppressed dont view the police state of inner cities as "Civilized Society"? :)

Then give them alternative views of what constitutes civilized society. Tell them of Yugoslavia, of the Moore's Utopia, of Tibetan society. Give them comparative legal histories and the tools they need to create their own society. A despotic social contract is a despotic social contract, no matter if its by the aristocracy or the masses. If anything, I am more comfortable with a tyranny of the aristocracy than I am being subject to the dictates of the public conscience, a thing which is subject to whims and passions and the lack of any kind of predictability for the basis of a legal system.
 

Infinite

Member
Then give them alternative views of what constitutes civilized society. Tell them of Yugoslavia, of the Moore's Utopia, of Tibetan society. Give them comparative legal histories and the tools they need to create their own society. A despotic social contract is a despotic social contract, no matter if its by the aristocracy or the masses. If anything, I am more comfortable with a tyranny of the aristocracy than I am being subject to the dictates of the public conscience, a thing which is subject to whims and passions and the lack of any kind of predictability for the basis of a legal system.

At this point I feel like you're concern trolling under some faux intellectual BS.
 

Mesousa

Banned
Then give them alternative views of what constitutes civilized society. Tell them of Yugoslavia, of the Moore's Utopia, of Tibetan society. Give them comparative legal histories and the tools they need to create their own society. A despotic social contract is a despotic social contract, no matter if its by the aristocracy or the masses. If anything, I am more comfortable with a tyranny of the aristocracy than I am being subject to the dictates of the public conscience, a thing which is subject to whims and passions and the lack of any kind of predictability for the basis of a legal system.

How does that solve the issue of a screaming man on the sidewalk exploding because he cant take the harassment anymore?

With revolutionary education I advocate giving him the proper tools with which to handle the action he sees in every day life from people who have experienced the same, and allow him to best handle the scene when exposed to situations where he is not on equal footing. Self preservation is the main point of the issue. When you can survive, then you are able to implement change. This guy changed NOTHING by getting himself killed by those cops that day. They go home to their families with no issue while he goes home to his family in a body bag. When you view your interactions with an oppressive force through a logical objective oriented lens then you have the tools with which to deal with the situation.
 
How does that solve the issue of a screaming man on the sidewalk exploding because he cant take the harassment anymore?

With revolutionary education I advocate giving him the proper tools with which to handle the action he sees in every day life from people who have experienced the same, and allow him to best handle the scene when exposed to situations where he is not on equal footing. Self preservation is the main point of the issue. When you can survive, then you are able to implement change. This guy changed NOTHING by getting himself killed by those cops that day. They go home to their families with no issue while he goes home to his family in a body bag. When you view your interactions with an oppressive force through a logical objective oriented lens then you have the tools with which to deal with the situation.

This is an outcrop of the education you are promoting giving them. You have to look at all the possible outcomes of your educational system. If you want to give revolutionary education, as an educator, you are responsible for what happens because of your education. If you think that an educator who knows a man is an arson is not negligent because he teaches the man how to burn, you are mistaken. Equally is the revolutionary responsible for not properly equipping the public with ideas of how change should occur. You don't just stomp on an ant hill because you dislike how it looks. If you want to preach change and revolutionary thought, you need to teach people different ideas of civilized society, otherwise you are negligent in your education.
At this point I feel like you're concern trolling under some faux intellectual BS.

No, I am a long supporter of Sir Thomas Moore, and know the dangers of the unbridled public conscience, and how its base nature is destructive, unpredictable, and lacks any kind of use as a public system. It is why the Martens Clause is entirely useless in the Geneva Convention and why jury nullification is pointless. A fundamental building block of society is predictability, knowing what will come in the future. Otherwise, you can never be secure in your own conceptions of safety, because the public could just as easily turn on you.
 

Mesousa

Banned
This is an outcrop of the education you are promoting giving them. You have to look at all the possible outcomes of your educational system. If you want to give revolutionary education, as an educator, you are responsible for what happens because of your education. If you think that an educator who knows a man is an arson is not negligent because he teaches the man how to burn, you are mistaken. Equally is the revolutionary responsible for not properly equipping the public with ideas of how change should occur. You don't just stomp on an ant hill because you dislike how it looks. If you want to preach change and revolutionary thought, you need to teach people different ideas of civilized society, otherwise you are negligent in your education.

The immediate outcome will be a decrease in these type of murders where young people, usually men of color, are murdered for not having a political ideology to go with the revolutionary outrage they experience. That is the most important aspect of revolutionary education in that context. Giving the lowest class of Americans most oppressed by the police the state the education they need to protect themselves from their oppressors.
 
The immediate outcome will be a decrease in these type of murders where young people, usually men of color, are murdered for not having a political ideology to go with the revolutionary outrage they experience. That is the most important aspect of revolutionary education in that context. Giving the lowest class of Americans most oppressed by the police the state the education they need to protect themselves from their oppressors.

And I applaud that goal. I support that goal. More power to you for trying to end the tyranny of the executive. However, just because I support that goal does not mean I agree with your implementation. If you want to preach revolutionist ideas, you need to know your audience and prepare your audience for civil discourse by teaching them not just current law and self-defense, but all of the appropriate means of changing the system outside of unlawful civil disobedience, which does nothing but cheapen the purpose of the rule of law.
 

Mesousa

Banned
And I applaud that goal. I support that goal. More power to you for trying to end the tyranny of the executive. However, just because I support that goal does not mean I agree with your implementation. If you want to preach revolutionist ideas, you need to know your audience and prepare your audience for civil discourse by teaching them not just current law and self-defense, but all of the appropriate means of changing the system outside of unlawful civil disobedience, which does nothing but cheapen the purpose of the rule of law.

I dont think I have actually given specifics of what my implementation would be in terms of revolutionary action in this thread though.

We are in complete agreement that civil disobedience does not need to be the only form of action. Revolutionary action needs to be waged across all fronts to truly be effective.
 

charsace

Member
Choke hold is illegal procedure for NYPD officers and kneeling on him is another illegal procedure, this maybe not end up with a slap on the wrist..

I figured the choke is illegal for them to do because it takes a lot of training to properly apply one. Hold a choke a a couple of nanoseconds too long and you can cause brain damage or death. Hope they all get jail time.
 

rjinaz

Member
This article had some information that I hadn't read.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-garner-stripped-shield-gun-article-1.1873033

The police union called Pantaleo's move to desk duty "knee-jerk" and completely unwarranted. There was a supervising cop on the scene, a sergeant that apparently stood by and let this happen. The police apparently searched Pantaleo's home and left with one box and three bags .

Overall a very informative read. The author seems to find it incredible that this man wasn't given any kind of medical attention for the entire length of time. The cops wanted to make sure they emptied his pockets though while he laid there dying. Priorities.
 
This is the direct result of what happens when you embrace your occupation. Just because you cease revolutionary action does not mean the oppressor will cease oppressive action.

You can hear the pain in his voice before he is assassinated. Talking about "always being harassed". You can tell he had been living with this for a long time, and that it finally boiled over at this point. The natural reaction to not having an outlet for the revolutionary action he desired. With such an outlet there is no doubt he would still be alive today.

I think the original video should be required viewing for anybody looking to educate someone in the danger of not approaching revolutionary action in an object oriented logical fashion.

.

It sounds stupid, but writing letters and making phone calls to your local elected officials actually does help get the ball rolling in terms of changing policy.

No it won't.

No, this is not some Hobbesian, leviathan stance on human nature. It is a stance on the responsibility of revolutionaries not to just light the fires of revolution and watch them burn, but to carefully control the burn of the fire so it doesn't rage out of control and destroy civilized society.

We don't live in a civilized society. Your entire line of questioning is intellectually dishonest. You're an authoritarian who is anti-revolution and anti-populist (even anti-civil disobedience for fuck's sake), so you don't care whether revolution is carried out responsibly or irresponsibly because you oppose it in all its forms. As someone else noted, you're concern trolling and you're trying to derail this thread. Considering the topic, that's a pretty shitty thing to do.
 
This guy had multiple incidents and was still allowed to keep his job. Now a guy is dead because of that. Jesus Christ if there hadn't been a video recording he may have gotten away with this. He still might.
 

Chariot

Member
This guy had multiple incidents and was still allowed to keep his job. Now a guy is dead because of that. Jesus Christ if there hadn't been a video recording he may have gotten away with this. He still might.
Just think at all the cases we hear nothing about. It could be a dozen, hundreds, thousand.. who knows, really?
 

commedieu

Banned
This guy had multiple incidents and was still allowed to keep his job. Now a guy is dead because of that. Jesus Christ if there hadn't been a video recording he may have gotten away with this. He still might.

2014 a man gets strangled to death with illegal choke holds on video and the qualifiers "might" and "may" still hold value.
 
I figured the choke is illegal for them to do because it takes a lot of training to properly apply one. Hold a choke a a couple of nanoseconds too long and you can cause brain damage or death. Hope they all get jail time.

There were a number of deaths one that led to a major lawsuit in which the New York Police had to pay out tens of millions of dollars.

So the guy that created Stop and Frisk made it illegal for New York Police officers to use in order to protect the city from a similar lawsuit.

As for the matter untaxed cigs the smuggling of them is serious business with terrorist groups such as Hamas/Hezbollah having operations in the US to raise tens of millions of dollars a year which is then funneled out of the US.
 

commedieu

Banned
There were a number of deaths one that led to a major lawsuit in which the New York Police had to pay out tens of millions of dollars.

So the guy that created Stop and Frisk made it illegal for New York Police officers to use in order to protect the city from a similar lawsuit.

As for the matter untaxed cigs the smuggling of them is serious business with terrorist groups such as Hamas/Hezbollah having operations in the US to raise tens of millions of dollars a year in illegal money which is then funneled out of the US.

735 million to be precise. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-pothole-settlements-costing-735-million.html
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
This article had some information that I hadn't read.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-garner-stripped-shield-gun-article-1.1873033

The police union called Pantaleo's move to desk duty "knee-jerk" and completely unwarranted. There was a supervising cop on the scene, a sergeant that apparently stood by and let this happen. The police apparently searched Pantaleo's home and left with one box and three bags .

Overall a very informative read. The author seems to find it incredible that this man wasn't given any kind of medical attention for the entire length of time. The cops wanted to make sure they emptied his pockets though while he laid there dying. Priorities.

Why did Police search his home and leave with stuff? That makes no sense to me.
 
It's really dumb how this happens. They all pile on top of the person and deny him the ability to breath and are shocked that he dies. Do they just not understand how the human body works? How the lungs work?

I can't speak for everywhere, but in my school district the police officers came from the remedial classes.
 
We don't live in a civilized society. Your entire line of questioning is intellectually dishonest. You're an authoritarian who is anti-revolution and anti-populist (even anti-civil disobedience for fuck's sake), so you don't care whether revolution is carried out responsibly or irresponsibly because you oppose it in all its forms. As someone else noted, you're concern trolling and you're trying to derail this thread. Considering the topic, that's a pretty shitty thing to do.

There is nothing intellectually dishonest about questioning other people's views through iterative skepticism. It is how Socrates did it. Just because the Socratic Method can be annoying doesn't mean that it does not serve an important intellectual purpose. Nor was I feigning any kind of societal interest. My interest comes from the absurd conclusion of the public conscience; what has been essentially codified by the Marten's Clause; anything and everything can be wrong depending on what the bros in charge decide is wrong that day. That is a horrible legal system.

Nor am I anti-revolution or anti-populist. I am merely pointing out the troublesome issues that surround populism that populists better be prepared to face head on.

Nor am I against social change in all its forms. I am for honest, intellectual discourse through the democratic process if it provides for it. I am not for overthrowing the powers that be merely because of personal grievances, especially when there are methods of obtaining satisfaction through existing legal methods.
 
This article had some information that I hadn't read.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-garner-stripped-shield-gun-article-1.1873033

The police union called Pantaleo's move to desk duty "knee-jerk" and completely unwarranted. There was a supervising cop on the scene, a sergeant that apparently stood by and let this happen. The police apparently searched Pantaleo's home and left with one box and three bags .

Overall a very informative read. The author seems to find it incredible that this man wasn't given any kind of medical attention for the entire length of time. The cops wanted to make sure they emptied his pockets though while he laid there dying. Priorities.

Is this guy a good cop by any stretch? Or is the Union protecting him because he's related to someone in the Dept.?
 
It sounds stupid, but writing letters and making phone calls to your local elected officials actually does help get the ball rolling in terms of changing policy.

This is wishful thinking, at best, and reveals a common, yet total misunderstanding of how the U.S. political system operates.

A major part of the problem we face in this country is the notion that we still live in a democracy and have a representative government. That if we just contact the politicians and let them know of we feel, or replace one set of politicians with a new set of politicians, the problem will just go away. It's that same wishful thinking that drove so many millions of people to fall for that "Hope and Change" propaganda employed by the Obama election campaign back in 2008.

The simple truth is, we do not have functional democracy, nor does our government represent us. We do not choose our own leaders, they are chosen for us. The only choice we are given in the matter is we are allowed to select from a tightly controlled, hand-picked group of politicians that have already been vetted by the banks and corporations who run the country. We are only allowed to have the politicians they want us to have, and those are the politicians they either directly control or know they can influence.

Why is this the case? It's very easy to understand, actually. It's almost intuitive. Elections are controlled by two things:

1. Money
2. Media

You need a combination of these two things to get anyone elected to a major political office in this country. One or the other won't do it. You need both in tandem.

Now who controls this special combination? Super wealthy people do. Banks and corporations do. The entire political system in the United States, and most other fake democracies, is controlled by wealthy interests, and wealthy interests don't have the same agenda that the peasants in the 99% do.

When you see that slogan "To Serve and Protect" on the side of a police car, take notice of the fact that the slogan never alludes to who exactly the police are serving and protecting. It's assumed by people that it must mean the police are serving and protecting the general community at large, but the real truth is the police exist to serve and protect the ruling class. Just as Mafia Dons will hire a bunch of thuggish henchmen to patrol a neighborhood under their control, the ruling class hires thuggish police to patrol the countries they control.

Police exist to control the 99% and keep them toeing the line. They "serve and protect" the interests of the ruling class, which is to centralize wealth and power into fewer and fewer hands, and maintain control of the system that allows them to exploit human beings much the same way a rancher might exploit a herd of cattle. That's what most of the countries on earth have been converted into - farms. Your "elected politicians" are really just middle managers who have no power. They've been put in place to run the farms for their wealthy owners and to take the blame when anything goes wrong.

The people aren't allowed to know they don't have democracy. The people aren't allowed to know their alleged "elected representatives" don't really represent them. After all, if the majority of the population ever learned this truth, it's likely there would be a revolution, or at the very least, widespread civil unrest. This is too risky for the ruling class, especially in the United States where there are well over 300 million firearms in private hands. A full-scale revolution in the United States would be virtually impossible to contain, despite the overwhelming technological advantage and resources possessed by the government. So the illusion of democracy and representative government is maintained - at least for the time being.

But I suspect that at some point in the future, this current charade will come to an end, and the ruling class will reveal to us the nature of the system we really live in.

Frank Zappa said it best:

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."
 

commedieu

Banned
That is all total. Meaning damage caused by all depts such as sanitation, fire dept etc. New York City is responsible for paying damage caused by potholes and used to pay 40 million dollars a year for people slipping and falling on the sidewalks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-cases-22-million-paul-browne-_n_1839022.html

$20 million of tax payers dollars... in lawsuits alone for a handful of instances, and if I had more time, im sure we could come up with millions of dollars more. So if the point is that this is costing the city millions of dollars, well.
 

commedieu

Banned
Short version: we have a plutocracy.

Yes, and our political system is basically just oligarchical collectivism. We have a soft dictatorship.

But yeah, you can't just tell people that. You have to explain it. The multiple layers of brainwashing most people receive via the controlled media and government indoctrination system makes them impervious to short, concise statements that are contradictory to what they've been taught.
 
(And this isn't even getting into the fact that I detest civil disobedience when we have appropriate avenues for change already in the system.)
explain to me in simple terms what you feel those avenues are and whether or not they are effective.
I haven't been following you guys discussion so pardon me. But don't you think mass incarcerations, the war on drugs, and systemic police brutality are actually the root of the problem here? That's all the guy was saying as far as I can see.
TheChocolateWar, I'd also like to hear you opinions on this as well, preferably without invoking Socrates for no reason
 
explain to me in simple terms what you feel those avenues are and whether or not they are effective.TheChocolateWar, I'd also like to hear you opinions on this as well, preferably without invoking Socrates for no reason

For the first, the primary recourse for those disenchanted by the current political structure can vote. We have a majority rule in this country. They can change the laws on the books through the democratic method, through the social contract they all agree to by living in this country. If they feel like they are not getting their voice represented, then the market of ideology has spoken. They are free to leave this country.

As for the second, that is what criminal and tort law is for. Police officer committing brutality? (I am not anyone in this threads attorney nor should any thing I say give rise to an assumption that I want to represent you in any matter before any court) Then you can file a Bivens federal tort claim. Additionally, you can file a state torts claim under the waiver of sovereign immunity your state has. There are thousands of attorneys around this nation who would be happy to help you recover against the government. Local government law exists for this very reason.

If the person is deceased, then the person's estate can pursue a wrongful death action against the police officer and drive them out of home and country by making them a debtor. Police are most assuredly not immune under the law, and tort law is there for you to take advantage of, even when the prosecutor is unwilling to file criminal charges.
 

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
For the first, the primary recourse for those disenchanted by the current political structure can vote. We have a majority rule in this country. They can change the laws on the books through the democratic method, through the social contract they all agree to by living in this country. If they feel like they are not getting their voice represented, then the market of ideology has spoken. They are free to leave this country.

Holy shit. You really are authoritarian and anti civil disobedience.
 
For the first, the primary recourse for those disenchanted by the current political structure can vote.

People are not allowed to vote for anything important.

Trivial, unimportant wedge issue stuff? Sure. Important, structural stuff? Hell no.

We have a majority rule in this country.

This is demonstrably false.

The majority in this country are poor and middle class, yet the system we have is clearly designed to benefit primarily the rich.

They can change the laws on the books through the democratic method, through the social contract they all agree to by living in this country.

There's no such thing as the social contract. It's a myth.

But even if it did exist, it wouldn't be a valid contract.

If they feel like they are not getting their voice represented, then the market of ideology has spoken. They are free to leave this country.

So you're OK with tyranny as long as the victims of tyranny have a way to escape it?

Interesting.
 
People are not allowed to vote for anything important.

Trivial, unimportant wedge issue stuff? Sure. Important, structural stuff? Hell no.

It is a representative democracy. You vote through your representative of your area. You vote for everything by exercising your ability to vote for local officials. It is not my fault, from an ideological stance, that less then 50% of the population reports for local elections.


This is demonstrably false.

The majority in this country are poor and middle class, yet the system we have is clearly designed to benefit primarily the rich.

And they should show up to vote. Merely because they fail to show up to vote does not negate the existence of a majority rule. If 100% of the population showed up to vote, then the whims of the majority would speak.


There's no such thing as the social contract. It's a myth.

But even if it did exist, it wouldn't be a valid contract.

A valid contract is one in which there is an offer, acceptance, and bargained for consideration. The offer in this case is the government allowing the people to live in this fine country. The acceptance is the continued presence of that person in this country, subjecting themselves to the laws and jurisdictions of this great state. The consideration is the priveleges and immunities of living in this country; taxes, health care, police force, etc. Therefore, there is a valid contract. You live in this state, therefore you subject yourself to its laws.


So you're OK with tyranny as long as the victims of tyranny have a way to escape it?

Interesting.

It isn't Tyranny if you have a ready remedy. You can sue in tort to assert your rights. Get that money, sue those officials.
 
It is a representative democracy. You vote through your representative of your area. You vote for everything by exercising your ability to vote for local officials. It is not my fault, from an ideological stance, that less then 50% of the population reports for local elections.

What ever gave you the idea that the politicians represent you?

You think that just because you voted for one they care one iota what you think or want?

And they should show up to vote. Merely because they fail to show up to vote does not negate the existence of a majority rule. If 100% of the population showed up to vote, then the whims of the majority would speak.

People don't show up to vote because they know it's pointless and that the system is rigged.

The politicians you vote for aren't your choices, they are the choices of someone else.

A valid contract is one in which there is an offer, acceptance, and bargained for consideration. The offer in this case is the government allowing the people to live in this fine country.

The government has no legitimate or moral authority to allow anyone to live anywhere.

The government has no more legitimate authority than the Sicilian Mafia does.

The acceptance is the continued presence of that person in this country, subjecting themselves to the laws and jurisdictions of this great state.

No it's not. This is like saying that someone choosing to live in a neighborhood controlled by a Mafia is acceptance of the Mafia's policies in that neighborhood.

It's nonsense.

The consideration is the priveleges and immunities of living in this country; taxes, health care, police force, etc.

None of these represent privileges or immunities. For starters, health care and police "protection" is paid for via taxes. The people pay for that themselves, not the government. Secondly, taxation is just a nice way of saying "armed robbery" or "compulsory extortion".

How can armed robbery or compulsory extortion be a privilege?

Therefore, there is a valid contract.

Nope, as there is no implicit or explicit acceptance, nor is there fair consideration given. After all, the government has no consideration to give, other than what it steals from the other party to the contract.

Therefore there is no valid contract.

You live in this state, therefore you subject yourself to its laws.

If you live in the neighborhood of a sex predator, are you willfully subjecting yourself to his sexual advances?

Obviously not.

It isn't Tyranny if you have a ready remedy. You can sue in tort to assert your rights. Get that money, sue those officials.

Suing the government in their own courts would be the equivalent of suing the Mafia in their own courts. Not only would such a court have no legitimate authority, but it would be impossible to get a truly unbiased, neutral hearing. It's a basic conflict of interest.

Government courts have a vested interest in supporting government policy.
 

Enzom21

Member
So those emergency workers have been put on modified duty. They didn't even attempt to give CPR, and appeared to play along with those "good" cop's lie about Eric Garner being alive.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/20/nypd-arrest-death_n_5604208.html

Four emergency responders have been put on modified duty while authorities investigate their response to a man who died after New York police put him in a chokehold on suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes, a fire department official said on Sunday.

The two paramedics and two emergency medical technicians will not be permitted to respond to 911 calls while the death of Eric Garner, who was 43, is investigated, the fire department official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he is not a department spokesman.
 
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