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Rumor: New 3DS will double RAM and (nearly double) VRAM.

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Anything 32GB or lower at least is essentially the same price for micro or regular... In fact, most are likely microSDs in full SD cases because it's cheaper to do that than to manufacture two seperate board for the same size capacity.
You're right, I hadn't checked microSD prices since last year. Things in the 32GB range are practically equalized today, even the difference for the 64GB bracket is minor. Still, full-sized SD would have been the better slot.

Yeah, the GPU does not support MSAA (caused by the way lighting and shadowing is performed by the GPU) and can only do SSAA by rendering at a higher resolution and downsampling. Many games use 2X vertical SSAA in 2D mode because it has zero impact on the VRAM usage (a 400x480 framebuffer uses the same amount of memory as two 400x240 ones).

Some games do use SSAA in 3D, however. Examples:

- Ace Attorney and the Zen Pinball games use 4X SSAA in 3D (800x480 internal resolution).
- Gunman Clive uses 2X SSAA in 3D and 4X SSAA in 2D.
- The Layton games use 4X SSAA for the characters.

It's actually a shame more devs don't bother trying to use SSAA in 3D, specially in games that aren't fillrate limited. In simpler looking games it could easily be enabled with zero performance cost.
I believe Layton uses SSAA throughout, not just for characters.


It's possible they now have either a 28/45nm ARM11 or maybe they actually went up to a Cortex-A5... As far as I know those are completely instruction-compatible with ARM11 while adding ARMv7 instructions and NEON support.
It's not just a matter of instruction set, though. The CPUs have to be clock-for-clock compatible, otherwise games will break - timings might go astray, framerate might fluctuate.
 

Cipherr

Member
so all of the DS hardware revisions play the same games? even the original DS? believe it or not i have yet to touch a DS in my entire life lol. never had the interest in handhelds in general, but this is really a weird sort of upgrade. the old install base don't get any of the new feature? it wouldn't be a problem if they were minor gimmicks but completely transforming the online experience or the OS is a big deal. if i am an early owner i would feel cheated honestly, but above all wouldn't this split the install base? make the experience inconsistent for the users?

Nope, noone really ever cared. Nintendo has done this on.... 3 of their handhelds I think. The main reason it doesnt matter is because theres only generally a handful of 'exclusive' titles for the new hardware. 99% of games work on both, because no developer is going to ignore 45+ million 3DS sold just so they can make use of a little extra VRAM in their game.

And as for the online functionality, its all the same between the normal 3DS and the new one, the new one just does the same actions faster. So theres never any actual 'split' in the userbases.
 
It's not just a matter of instruction set, though. The CPUs have to be clock-for-clock compatible, otherwise games will break - timings might go astray, framerate might fluctuate.

This.

I posted this in the wrong thread before and i am sure it's already been mentioned in this one but does this increase lead to a possibility of proper GBA emulation coming to the "new 3DS"?

It's certainly possible. Even the minimum 50% boost the system can get (due to the base multiplier in the 3DS) would be fairly dramatic and enable a lot more processor intensive emulation such as GBA and SNES. I wouldn't be surprised if that was another reason they wanted a faster CPU as it opens far more games to be sold on the system.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
I suppose this is a better thread for this.

Rumoured specs according to NintenDomination's Tilman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ2gpaAPl_8&feature=youtu.be&a

For those who can't see the video

New n3DS Codename = SNAKE
3x more CPU Clockspeed
RAM Speed Doubled
L2 Cache
GPU and VRAM are the same

There's a bit of contrast compared to what stated by the OP, isn't it? Fake/bogus/Tilman's creations...what do you think?

EDIT: To be honest, I think I could give more credit to the 3DSbrew guys, currently. XD
 

B_Boss

Member
Damn I sure hope this is true. Here I am in the process of saving for a 3DS XL lol. Definitely waiting and see what unfolds at Nintendo. Thanks OP for the info.
 
I suppose this is a better thread for this.

Rumoured specs according to NintenDomination's Tilman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ2gpaAPl_8&feature=youtu.be&a

For those who can't see the video

New n3DS Codename = SNAKE
3x more CPU Clockspeed
RAM Speed Doubled
L2 Cache
GPU and VRAM are the same

There's a bit of contrast compared to what stated by the OP, isn't it? Fake/bogus/Tilman's creations...what do you think?

EDIT: To be honest, I think I could give more credit to the 3DSbrew guys, currently. XD

Random unnamed source doesn't sound particularly reliable to me, and that video doesn't exactly inspire confidence... "haha uranus, that joke is original and funny right?"

That said, 3x CPU speed (804mhz) would be huge, especially since I was predicting only 2x (536mhz).

The thing to remember about the initial 'leak' is that it comes straight from Nintendo in the form of information in the latest 3DS firmware... that said, there is nothing that directly contradicts this second rumor (except VRAM, though that wasn't completely clear in the original leak to begin with).
 

paolo11

Member
I apologize to ask this but I'm a bit naive to ask.


Is the New 3DS as powerful or more powerful than the Wii?
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Just to get a better idea, do we have specs for 3DS and Vita, including speeds for both RAM and CPU? I've yet to see those posted. Just to get a better idea what both rumoured specs compare to Vita, or to see what kind of jump it'd be.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Random unnamed source doesn't sound particularly reliable to me, and that video doesn't exactly inspire confidence... "haha uranus, that joke is original and funny right?"

That said, 3x CPU speed (804mhz) would be huge, especially since I was predicting only 2x (536mhz).

Yeah, I have to admit the video was so awkward, it made me fell bad watching parts of it :lol
 
I apologize to ask this but I'm a bit naive to ask.


Is the New 3DS as powerful or more powerful than the Wii?

We don't know. The 3DS already had more RAM than the Wii, but had a much slower CPU (268mhz dual core ARM11 (ARMv6) versus Wii's 700~mhz PPC). If the 3x rumor is true, that puts the ARM11 at 800~mhz which would likely give much better results on an optimized multithreaded application, but I'm not sure how it would compete in single threaded performance.

Just to get a better idea, do we have specs for 3DS and Vita, including speeds for both RAM and CPU? I've yet to see those posted. Just to get a better idea what both rumoured specs compare to Vita, or to see what kind of jump it'd be.

The base specs for 3DS are 268mhz dual core ARM11 and PICO200 GPU on it's SoC.

Vita only really has rumored stats since it's not been hacked to the level to pull official numbers from the hardware, but it's believed to be 1ghz on a confirmed quad core chip.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
New n3DS Codename = SNAKE
3x more CPU Clockspeed
RAM Speed Doubled
L2 Cache
GPU and VRAM are the same

There's a bit of contrast compared to what stated by the OP, isn't it? Fake/bogus/Tilman's creations...what do you think?

EDIT: To be honest, I think I could give more credit to the 3DSbrew guys, currently. XD

All the leaks we've heard before this one seem semi more plausible.

Current 3ds ARM 11 clock is 268mhz. Most of the rumors have the clock speed being doubled to 536. Tripled pushed it all the way up to 804 which nobody has remotely pushed as the spec other than this video.

Also I say again get that we are working with 134 as the base clock multiple which would push the GPU just over the 400 clock speed limit if you upped it by 1 tick, but does anyone really thinking they aren't shrinking the SoC? I mean really? I just don't get why you wouldn't bump the GPU up by 134mhz on the new die as I doubt that would really effect heat/battery.

PS: Holy fuck that video was cringe worthy. Sooooo awkward.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
I suppose this is a better thread for this.

Rumoured specs according to NintenDomination's Tilman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ2gpaAPl_8&feature=youtu.be&a

For those who can't see the video

New n3DS Codename = SNAKE
3x more CPU Clockspeed
RAM Speed Doubled
L2 Cache
GPU and VRAM are the same

There's a bit of contrast compared to what stated by the OP, isn't it? Fake/bogus/Tilman's creations...what do you think?

EDIT: To be honest, I think I could give more credit to the 3DSbrew guys, currently. XD

Sounds like he read about 3DSbrew's find and pulled some modified numbers out of his buttocks. And not the crazy kind of buttocks.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
We don't know. The 3DS already had more RAM than the Wii, but had a much slower CPU (268mhz dual core ARM11 (ARMv6) versus Wii's 700~mhz PPC). If the 3x rumor is true, that puts the ARM11 at 800~mhz which would likely give much better results on an optimized multithreaded application, but I'm not sure how it would compete in single threaded performance.
Well, PPC750's DMIPS/MHz varies from 2.0 (for platforms with slow/crippled mem subsystems) to 2.32-2.45 DMIPS (for platforms with hefty 1MB L2). Broadway has 256KB of L2, but that complements 24MB of damn-low latency 1T-SRAM.

In comparison, ARM1176 is quoted at 1.25 DMIPS, so you can make your conclusions.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
nintendodominations specs sound like he pulled them from his ass.

Sounds like he read about 3DSbrew's find and pulled some modified numbers out of his buttocks. And not the crazy kind of buttocks.

I agree with these. Just seems like they took the homebrew info and changed some values.

I hate videos like this because it can't propagate bad info taken as fact.
 

Eiolon

Member
Since the archaic resolution is remaining the same but the speed get beefed up, think this thing can chug out a Tropical Freeze port?
 

Mlatador

Banned
I suppose this is a better thread for this.

Rumoured specs according to NintenDomination's Tilman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ2gpaAPl_8&feature=youtu.be&a

For those who can't see the video

New n3DS Codename = SNAKE
3x more CPU Clockspeed
RAM Speed Doubled
L2 Cache
GPU and VRAM are the same

There's a bit of contrast compared to what stated by the OP, isn't it? Fake/bogus/Tilman's creations...what do you think?

EDIT: To be honest, I think I could give more credit to the 3DSbrew guys, currently. XD

Whatever it needs to speed up the god-aweful web browsing currently.
 
That kinda blows. At least the 3D is being refined but the resolution needs a boost big time. Thought they would do that seen as they're throwing more horsepower into it

The resolution is not that bad. The original 3DS had a sharp image. If you buy a 3DS XL that's your fault, the new 3DS has a slighty bigger screen so the screen is perfectly fine, it's not too big like the 3DS XL which would result in a unsharp image.
 

synce

Member
No way they're tripling the CPU speed and still keeping the same battery life even with a shrink... Just the idea is hilarious.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
The resolution is not that bad. The original 3DS had a sharp image. If you buy a 3DS XL that's your fault, the new 3DS has a slighty bigger screen so the screen is perfectly fine, it's not too big like the 3DS XL which would result in a unsharp image.

No just no. The original 3DS never had a sharp image. I'm not saying it has to be 4k on a small screen to be sharp, but the idea that the 3DS ever had a sharp image is laughable.
 
No way they're tripling the CPU speed and still keeping the same battery life even with a shrink... Just the idea is hilarious.

Why is that hilarious? My cellphone is a 1.5ghz quad core ARMv7 (versus the ARMv6 in the 3DS) and I can run applications for 5-6 hours without completely draining the power. The armv6 is not likely to be one of the biggest power draws in the system to begin with.
 
No just no. The original 3DS never had a sharp image. I'm not saying it has to be 4k on a small screen to be sharp, but the idea that the 3DS ever had a sharp image is laughable.

Why? I don't see any pixels if I hold it in a playable distance (just the distance you need for enabling 3D)
 
At this point I don't understand why they wouldn't just release its successor. It seams like its about time, no?
Not if the rumors are true about the next nintendo console being a platform for both tv and handheld hardware. That said, this thing is clearly getting 3ds games that wont play on older models, so its basically a new platform with 3ds bc.
 

Seik

Banned
No way they're tripling the CPU speed and still keeping the same battery life even with a shrink... Just the idea is hilarious.

I know right?! Almost 4 years later, technology can't possibly achieve such possible results. /s
 
I know right?! Almost 4 years later, technology can't possibly achieve such possible results. /s



Well to be fair, he's kinda right. 3DS CPU is already at 45nm iirc. Triple the clock speed, with same capacity battery and better battery life... hard to believe. As for upgrades, Nintendo used to double the clockspeed, which would already be a nice improvement, to get double the clockspeed for better battery life.
 

beril

Member
Why? I don't see any pixels if I hold it in a playable distance (just the distance you need for enabling 3D)

That's just bad eyesight. Personally I don't think seeing pixels is really such a horrible thing on a gaming device with limited gpu power, and given the doubled pixels because of the 3D mode, the screen itself has a pretty high dpi for 2011. But yeah, the pixels are quite obvious
 
That's just bad eyesight. Personally I don't think seeing pixels is really such a horrible thing on a gaming device with limited gpu power, and given the doubled pixels because of the 3D mode, the screen itself has a pretty high dpi for 2011. But yeah, the pixels are quite obvious


As far as I'm concerned, 480p is more than enough for a handheld screen. It's too bad people got spoiled by smartphones and think handhelds should compete on that front while the purpose is a different one...
 

wsippel

Banned
I suppose this is a better thread for this.

Rumoured specs according to NintenDomination's Tilman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ2gpaAPl_8&feature=youtu.be&a

For those who can't see the video

New n3DS Codename = SNAKE
3x more CPU Clockspeed
RAM Speed Doubled
L2 Cache
GPU and VRAM are the same

There's a bit of contrast compared to what stated by the OP, isn't it? Fake/bogus/Tilman's creations...what do you think?

EDIT: To be honest, I think I could give more credit to the 3DSbrew guys, currently. XD
The codename doesn't make sense to me, as the actual devices have the product codes RED and KTR. Should be SNK if the codename was indeed Snake. Pretty sure the Wii U is the only Nintendo system that doesn't follow that usual naming scheme.

Also, the 3DS GPU runs at the same clock speed as the CPU, so assuming this leak is true, is the GPU running at 800MHz now?
 

Mlatador

Banned
As far as I'm concerned, 480p is more than enough for a handheld screen. It's too bad people got spoiled by smartphones and think handhelds should compete on that front while the purpose is a different one...

It doesn't need to be in 1000px ranges, but I would prefer if it had a dispaly where the pixels wouldn't be that noticable and if the hardware were powerful enough to produce AA all the time, because the jaggies in some of the 3DS games are really noticable and that bothers me. Hopefully the 4DS will change that.
 

beril

Member
As far as I'm concerned, 480p is more than enough for a handheld screen. It's too bad people got spoiled by smartphones and think handhelds should compete on that front while the purpose is a different one...

480p is what I'm hoping for on their next handheld if they skip 3D and keep roughly the same screensize. Anything more would be a horrible waste of GPU power and we'd undoubtedly end up with tons of subnative games that are looking worse because of the better screen.
 
It doesn't need to be in 1000px ranges, but I would prefer if it had a dispaly where the pixels wouldn't be that noticable and if the hardware were powerful enough to produce AA all the time, because the jaggies in some of the 3DS games are really noticable and that bothers me. Hopefully the 4DS will change that.


To be fair, 480p on 5inch isn't that noticeable. And to be fair, I rather have better AA or better framerate than subnative res.
480p with 3D would be a kill !



480p is what I'm hoping for on their next handheld if they skip 3D and keep roughly the same screensize. Anything more would be a horrible waste of GPU power and we'd undoubtedly end up with tons of subnative games that are looking worse because of the better screen.



Finally someone who understands my hatred for subnative res games :')
When your handheld has to run below it's native resolution to get something higher than 20fps, then you're doing something wrong.
 

tronic307

Member
That's not too shabby, I'll enjoy the New 3DS for a year or two until Nintendo drops the sequel.
I think it'll be more than a year or two, maybe spring 2017 for the handheld and then holiday for the next console. I'm hoping Nintendo will wait until AMD K12 is ready for their next platform. Nintendo's unified architecture plans are just on the verge of feasible right now. They very likely needed to upgrade now, in the interest of buying time. In that light, I could see the new 3DS receiving far more support than the DSi.
 
Also, the 3DS GPU runs at the same clock speed as the CPU, so assuming this leak is true, is the GPU running at 800MHz now?

Just because it's running the same in the current hardware does not mean it would have to run the same in the newer model.

The base clockrate of the 3DS (as already discussed) is 134mhz. Everything is based on this clockrate (ARM9 and DSP at 134mhz, ARM11 and GPU 268mhz). There is no reason why they couldn't run the CPU at 6x base clock (804mhz) while the GPU remained at 2x or even 3x (402mhz).
 
480p is a miracle over the 3ds resolution. Personally I think the next handheld should have the strength to natively do 720p at 60fps with no 3d. 1080p is overkill but 480p is far too low consconsidering the costs
I'm also fine with vita s resolution
This is assuming a 2017 launch
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Not if the rumors are true about the next nintendo console being a platform for both tv and handheld hardware. That said, this thing is clearly getting 3ds games that wont play on older models, so its basically a new platform with 3ds bc.

Is this really a rumor? I thought that this was just guesswork from some GAFers. A guesswork that does paint a plausible scenario, but no actual leaks from Nintendo R&D.
 
Is this really a rumor? I thought that this was just guesswork from some GAFers. A guesswork that does paint a plausible scenario, but not from actual leaks from Nintendo R&D.
It was a rumor based on a mistranslation that Nintendo responded to by clarifying that they are not making one system that would work as both home console and handheld. They are working on two separate products that will share a certain amount of cross-platform compatibility. I'm on mobile, otherwise I'd search for and link their response.
 

Sami+

Member
The resolution is not that bad. The original 3DS had a sharp image. If you buy a 3DS XL that's your fault, the new 3DS has a slighty bigger screen so the screen is perfectly fine, it's not too big like the 3DS XL which would result in a unsharp image.

Dude, it's 240p. That's about as far from "sharp" as it can get these days.
 

wsippel

Banned
Just because it's running the same in the current hardware does not mean it would have to run the same in the newer model.

The base clockrate of the 3DS (as already discussed) is 134mhz. Everything is based on this clockrate (ARM9 and DSP at 134mhz, ARM11 and GPU 268mhz). There is no reason why they couldn't run the CPU at 6x base clock (804mhz) while the GPU remained at 2x or even 3x (402mhz).
Sure, but I don't think it makes much sense to clock the CPU much higher without overclocking the GPU. And I believe it could handle it.
 
Sure, but I don't think it makes much sense to clock the CPU much higher without overclocking the GPU. And I believe it could handle it.

There just may not be a whole lot that can be gained from overclocking the GPU when the display behind it will still be very limited. The additional VRAM wwill aid in things like textures and AA so it's not like there wouldn't be noticeable gains graphically from that alone.

Since day 1, however, Nintendo got flack for how low clocked the 3DS is on it's main processor. Such a boost will almost certain bring immediate benefits in expanding out exclusive content, like VC (SNES/GBA), HTML5 indie titles, etc.
 

Votron

Member
No one responded to this guy so i'll just say; No.

I think Nintendo's actions with this are too similar to Sega's moves in terms of nonsensical, and i hope nobody thinks this is a fine solution.

"Bu bu bu phones!" Dedicated consoles are not phones.

You don't apply the same logic to dedicated consoles as phones, otherwise they are not dedicated consoles.

Could Sony and MS stay in the game having to constantly reiterate hardware every year or two? Is there even a large enough market of people who would pay to subsidize the cost of upgrading constantly for a closed ecosystem for marginal improvements? I think not. It only confuses the userbase. And it also effects developers entire development workflow.

If your going to have an upgrade path, it has to follow the same path as previous generations IMO. The only thing closest to a compromise would be full hardware BC. Luckily with the switch to x86 and consumer components, that is much more likely in a hypothetical next generation of Sony/MS

why are you comparing Nintendo to sega.. They only do this to their handheld.. and sony does to some extend too.. (see psp variant.. adding ram and increase in cpu too)

Nintendo have never done such with their console (and neither has sony/microsoft) ...in terms of upgrading the internal component of course.
 
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