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watershed · Jan 10, 2015

pinkurocket said:
I felt like it:

Now, I know you already mentioned the hud hidden away bottom right can be moved top right, it's a free space. However, I don't think this is a feasable concept if only because the area outside of the center square is almost purely cosmetic. Your hands are covering up a bunch and it is wasted space. Space that takes a bunch of energy and power as well. You're basically delivering a 4:3 gaming experience.

It's an interesting concept, I give you that. I don't think it would actually make the gaming experience better, it's a neat gimmick, but nothing more.

Even though it doesn't make much sense, I think this looks awesome! I'd love to have a handheld that was just a screen on top.

Refreshment.01 · Jan 10, 2015

efyu_lemonardo said:
That's exactly what I was referring to. It's called a programmable haptic display, and it's one of those Holy Grail technologies that have been in R&D for decades. Like I said, unless you have a way to produce an inferior version today which can be gradually refined over the next decade (or more), you've got nothing. Every company or research institute with an interest in future interfaces has been working on it since as far back as I can remember.

Well i do have an alternative way for Nintendo to achive something similar that is more plausible.

Take the Wii U Gamepad and just leave the 2 thumbsticks and the 4 bumpers and triggers. The face will just be a touch screen capable of multi touch. The idea would be to make low cost overlays of different button layouts to put ontop of the touch screen, one for the left side and another for the right.

The overlays would be included with a game and come in many configurations and materials. These could be setup in each side of the touch screen. For example, you could have a general/traditional one with the Dpad and ABXY diamond configuration or another one with the GC satelite one. Or some special ones for specific games, in this case something like Kirby's Air Ride would come with just one big A button overlay.

There are many advantages and potential applications. Make them translucid so the touch screen gives the button colors and could blink/flash. The controller would work better for lefties as they could just swap the overlays to the sides they prefer. You could leave just the left side with a dpad and use the rest of the screen as a touch pad. Or you can put an overlay on one side and use the Gamepad on a vertical setup for something like an old school shootem up.

aza · Jan 11, 2015

Incitemaybe said:
I really like your mock ups Aza! If Nintendo did do something like this I'd find it interesting

Thanks

yurinka said:

Yup, perfect. Thanks for expanding on the concept. I'll add a rough 2.35:1 grid just for reference, too:

All vital visuals/HUD elements would go in green, all other (not as important) reference material in red. Just because the areas in red can often be covered by your hands, though, doesn't mean the screen estate used there is wasted and therefore not useful. In this very simple implementation of a Zelda HUD, with the XABY buttons, a quick lift of the thumb would show you which button corresponds to which item. The Gear, Map, and Item functions usually available on the 3DS' lower screen could perhaps be able to be brought up by simply tapping on the lower part of the main screen. That's one idea.

So far, we've only explored basic button labels. But obviously, there's limitless and better uses for a wraparound screen concept like this. For example, take something like ammo count: instead of that number being tucked away on the corner HUDs of a traditional screen, the number is right there next to the button your finger is on for super quick, easy to locate reference. Or take something like, an action you can only perform a limited amount times. Maybe a speed boost that you can only perform 3 times in a row before having to wait 5 seconds to recharge. You would have 3 big bars wrapped around their corresponding button, each bar depleting everytime time you used a boost. The bars would appear to be wrapped around your thumb. Then when you're all out of speed boosts, a big outer ring takes their place and it depletes for 5 seconds, letting you know how long it'll take to recharge your power.

As far as ergonomics, I reckon if you were just to take the back of the Wii U's GamePad, slim it up and slap it on the back of the device, you'd end up with something pretty comfortable:

abstract alien · Jan 11, 2015

StaticJam said:
Whaaaaat

I really dislike the buttons on it, and I don't think I've ever disliked the buttons on any controller before to the point of noting it.

Respawn · Jan 11, 2015

Of course it won't be donut shaped. Nintendo does this to throw off the competition.

Somnid · Jan 11, 2015

Respawn said:
Of course it won't be donut shaped. Nintendo does this to throw off the competition.

It may not be for a game system but rather a QOL device. Then again the "non-sensing" thing makes me think that at least the sleep tracker might not have much in the way of physical interaction or a display at all but we'll see.

BishopLamont · Jan 11, 2015

why not just make the controls slide in and out or attach and detachable?

on screen controls is never a good idea

also · Jan 11, 2015

aza said:
Thanks

Yup, perfect. Thanks for expanding on the concept. I'll add a rough 2.35:1 grid just for reference, too:

All vital visuals/HUD elements would go in green, all other (not as important) reference material in red. Just because the areas in red can often be covered by your hands, though, doesn't mean the screen estate used there is wasted and therefore not useful. In this very simple implementation of a Zelda HUD, with the XABY buttons, a quick lift of the thumb would show you which button corresponds to which item. The Gear, Map, and Item functions usually available on the 3DS' lower screen could perhaps be able to be brought up by simply tapping on the lower part of the main screen. That's one idea.

So far, we've only explored basic button labels. But obviously, there's limitless and better uses for a wraparound screen concept like this. For example, take something like ammo count: instead of that number being tucked away on the corner HUDs of a traditional screen, the number is right there next to the button your finger is on for super quick, easy to locate reference. Or take something like, an action you can only perform a limited amount times. Maybe a speed boost that you can only perform 3 times in a row before having to wait 5 seconds to recharge. You would have 3 big bars wrapped around their corresponding button, each bar depleting everytime time you used a boost. The bars would appear to be wrapped around your thumb. Then when you're all out of speed boosts, a big outer ring takes their place and it depletes for 5 seconds, letting you know how long it'll take to recharge your power.

As far as ergonomics, I reckon if you were just to take the back of the Wii U's GamePad, slim it up and slap it on the back of the device, you'd end up with something pretty comfortable:

The safe area needs to be smaller because you have to account for people's thumbs and the movement of the slide pad itself.
Having to lift your thumbs to access data you could previously easily see on screen sounds terrible. A traditional on-screen indicator would be way better and wouldn't require expensive new technology.

Ninja Scooter · Jan 11, 2015

BishopLamont said:
why not just make the controls slide in and out or attach and detachable?

on screen controls is never a good idea

This idea could be really cool. You could have more mobile style/touch screen games that work with the pad slid in, or traditional controls with a pad slid out. Reminds me of that PSP2 fan concept

Having the buttons on the screen itself just feels like wasted space/pixels/power.

Refreshment.01 · Jan 11, 2015

Ninja Scooter said:
This idea could be really cool. You could have more mobile style/touch screen games that work with the pad slid in, or traditional controls with a pad slid out. Reminds me of that PSP2 fan concept

Having the buttons on the screen itself just feels like wasted space/pixels/power.

If Nintendo opted to go with one screen for the portable it is kind of cool to see an sliding one such as the above, like we have seen with so many mobile phones since the early 2000's.

There's some problems thought. one, is that i remember these sliding devices are not as durable as clamshells. The other is that your screen is always exposed, they could design an sliding plastic cover thought but seen how Nintendo didn't do that for 2DS has me wondering.

ThoseDeafMutes · Jan 11, 2015

Maybe a clamshell transformer type design. Like the screen can pivot, so when you close it the screen can be either on the outside, or the inside, so that you get a pure touchscreen devices, or it's protected for storage/transportation.

Freshmaker · Jan 11, 2015

neogaffer1 said:
But then all of your customers die and you don't have a base to sell your products to anymore.

So it's basically offshoring.

Great-God · Jan 11, 2015

To all talking about that design with the buttons poking through the screen, that's fucking brilliant. I haven't even seen it and I can't go back to traditional handhelds. Imagine a Vita, but all its surface is a screen. It would allow for a crazy big screen in a small package. The only problem is it would be an ugly phone, but who cares?
And a phone with great specs and a Snapdragon 800 already costs 300$, in two years or so this all would be technically feasible for a reasonable price.
Now, to see if Nintendo is doing it.

PS: to those saying this is a bad idea, it's the slickest option possible. Why have a smaller screen, or the buttons on one of those fugly slides?

Edit: also, about the price, I thought one of the points of the unified platform was having multiple SKUs. Why not have a high-end one?

also · Jan 11, 2015

Great-God said:
To all talking about that design with the buttons poking through the screen, that's fucking brilliant. I haven't even seen it and I can't go back to traditional handhelds. Imagine a Vita, but all its surface is a screen. It would allow for a crazy big screen in a small package. The only problem is it would be an ugly phone, but who cares?
And a phone with great specs and a Snapdragon 800 already costs 300$, in two years or so this all would be technically feasible for a reasonable price.
Now, to see if Nintendo is doing it.

PS: to those saying this is a bad idea, it's the slickest option possible. Why have a smaller screen, or the buttons on one of those fugly slides?

Edit: also, about the price, I thought one of the points of the unified platform was having multiple SKUs. Why not have a high-end one?

I'm imagining a Vita with a screen like that and it's terrible. The screen would be bigger but the actual useable area would only be marginally larger. Plus the pixels covered by your hand would still impact performance and drain battery power.

Making 2 SKUs is not as easy as using two kinds of screen. Larger screen = more power required = 2 different GPU and CPU configurations = developers having to program for 2 configurations. You would need to spend more money for R&D and each game would cost more to develop. All for the sake of releasing a cool looking premium product in an age where handhelds are declining and it's clear that people don't want to pay premium prices.

Peru · Jan 11, 2015

I won't kick and scream when we (probably) won't get it but I still have an attachment to dual screen design. Not for novelty gameplay but the really simple things like a map and inventory that's always accessible and visible.

Great-God · Jan 11, 2015

Atmej said:
I'm imagining a Vita with a screen like that and it's terrible. The screen would be bigger but the actual useable area would only be marginally larger. Plus the pixels covered by your hand would still impact performance and drain battery power.

Making 2 SKUs is not as easy as using two kinds of screen. Larger screen = more power required = 2 different GPU and CPU configurations = developers having to program for 2 configurations. You would need to spend more money for R&D and each game would cost more to develop. All for the sake of releasing a cool looking premium product in an age where handhelds are declining and it's clear that people don't want to pay premium prices.

Tell that to smartphone makers that sell $800 top of the line phones, and to people that replace their phone every year.
About the CPU and GPU, that's what I said about the unified platform (Actually I didn't, Iwata did. I'm on mobile, so I won't link the GAF thread)
Anyway, how do PC games work then? Noone programs to the metal.
And yes it would be expensive, but also cool as fuck, and cooler than a standard screen.
Personally, I think Nintendo's gonna Nintendo, but hope is the last thing to die.
Edit: This just came out, Iwata already said this months ago and my point is based on this.

efyu_lemonardo · Jan 11, 2015

Refreshment.01 said:
Well i do have an alternative way for Nintendo to achive something similar that is more plausible.

Take the Wii U Gamepad and just leave the 2 thumbsticks and the 4 bumpers and triggers. The face will just be a touch screen capable of multi touch. The idea would be to make low cost overlays of different button layouts to put ontop of the touch screen, one for the left side and another for the right.

The overlays would be included with a game and come in many configurations and materials. These could be setup in each side of the touch screen. For example, you could have a general/traditional one with the Dpad and ABXY diamond configuration or another one with the GC satelite one. Or some special ones for specific games, in this case something like Kirby's Air Ride would come with just one big A button overlay.

There are many advantages and potential applications. Make them translucid so the touch screen gives the button colors and could blink/flash. The controller would work better for lefties as they could just swap the overlays to the sides they prefer. You could leave just the left side with a dpad and use the rest of the screen as a touch pad. Or you can put an overlay on one side and use the Gamepad on a vertical setup for something like an old school shootem up.

That's definitely something that's come up, in terms of feasible short term solutions.
It's not a bad idea, but it's proven to be rather unpopular. Maybe because of consumer reluctance to have all these plastic covers lying around. For that reason alone it wouldn't be suitable for a handheld, but the idea itself could potentially become fashionable on a console or PC at some point, if there's a market for it.

also · Jan 11, 2015

Great-God said:
Tell that to smartphone makers that sell $800 top of the line phones, and to people that replace their phone every year.
About the CPU and GPU, that's what I said about the unified platform (Actually I didn't, Iwata did. I'm on mobile, so I won't link the GAF thread)
Anyway, how do PC games work then? Noone programs to the metal.
And yes it would be expensive, but also cool as fuck, and cooler than a standard screen.
Personally, I think Nintendo's gonna Nintendo, but hope is the last thing to die.
Edit: This just came out, Iwata already said this months ago and my point is based on this.

Handhelds =/= phones, so that comparison is moot.
You can justify the unified platform because a home console and a handheld serve 2 very different purposes. Coolness doesn't justify all the problems this would bring. Not to mention who would actually use the added screen estate in any meaningful way? The basic model would undoubtedly sell better so would any developer really want to alienate the bigger userbase and consequently would anyone be willing to purchase the premium model for some minor improvements if any?
Nintendo slashed the price and released a budget model due to poor sales and yet you seem to think there's room for a premium model. Why?

Great-God · Jan 11, 2015

Atmej said:
Handhelds =/= phones, so that comparison is moot.
You can justify the unified platform because a home console and a handheld serve 2 very different purposes. Coolness doesn't justify all the problems this would bring. Not to mention who would actually use the added screen estate in any meaningful way? The basic model would undoubtedly sell better so would any developer really want to alienate the bigger userbase and consequently would anyone be willing to purchase the premium model for some minor improvements if any?
Nintendo slashed the price and released a budget model due to poor sales and yet you seem to think there's room for a premium model. Why?

Because it would be a higher end version of the same platform and some people like having cool things. The SoC could be the same design with more ALUs/cores/frequency, so the cost increase would be negligible, and enthusiasts would buy it. ¿Why do people buy high end shit?
And, games would just render with more FOV and perhaps have part of the HUD ouside the main zone of the screen. About the resolution, a lot of phones are already 1080p and more.
My point is that because multiple SKUs are now possible for Nintendo, the price limitation is diminished. My only point is that they have the technology, which they are already using for another machine, and that applying it for a higher end machine is no longer suicide.

I'm not saying they will do it, we all know Nintendo, but you can't deny it's an interesting idea

Edit: also, I keep hearing traditional handhelds are a thing of the past.

Kathian · Jan 11, 2015

ThoseDeafMutes said:
Maybe a clamshell transformer type design. Like the screen can pivot, so when you close it the screen can be either on the outside, or the inside, so that you get a pure touchscreen devices, or it's protected for storage/transportation.

Have thought about this in the past as well; would not be too tricky; just means you'd need rather ugly 'legs' on the outside to slide the screen against and lock it in place; might need to be kind of heavy as well.

Refreshment.01 · Jan 11, 2015

efyu_lemonardo said:
That's definitely something that's come up, in terms of feasible short term solutions.
It's not a bad idea, but it's proven to be rather unpopular. Maybe because of consumer reluctance to have all these plastic covers lying around. For that reason alone it wouldn't be suitable for a handheld, but the idea itself could potentially become fashionable on a console or PC at some point, if there's a market for it.

Where have you seen that idea before? And specifically attached to a touch screen?

This occured to me on my own, the only overlays i' ve seen before for videogame systems were in the first videogame consoles and that was for the TV as a way to provide colors to the visuals. The other similar thing would be swappable buttons or pieces on a controller, this has been talked about alot already.

Remember since this depends of the touch screen we arent talking about swapping buttons in a traditional controller, the overlays would be a lot more simple with fewer parts than the innards of traditional controllers.

Btw, the idea is for a console controller not the portable. This thread is not portable specefic nor even console as we don't know where the free form screen would be used, for all we know it could be for the QOL platform.

Regarding the amount of pieces of plastic, there wouldn't be that many. You would have 1 main one for the mayority of games. In my case, the one i would use is GC satelite layout with that big A button. i think is better thought out than the diamond shaped one.

The great thing is that you would have lots of options. At the least is something more useful and closer to reality than the concept with the buttons sticking from the screens we have seen resurrected in this thread.

also · Jan 11, 2015

Great-God said:
Because it would be a higher end version of the same platform and some people like having cool things. The SoC could be the same design with more ALUs/cores/frequency, so the cost increase would be negligible, and enthusiasts would buy it. ¿Why do people buy high end shit?
And, games would just render with more FOV and perhaps have part of the HUD ouside the main zone of the screen. About the resolution, a lot of phones are already 1080p and more.
My point is that because multiple SKUs are now possible for Nintendo, the price limitation is diminished. My only point is that they have the technology, which they are already using for another machine, and that applying it for a higher end machine is no longer suicide.

I'm not saying they will do it, we all know Nintendo, but you can't deny it's an interesting idea

Edit: also, I keep hearing traditional handhelds are a thing of the past.

Except the high end competitor has never once won in the handheld space.
Your suggestions for potential applications sound so pointless. Let's waste power and battery life on rendering things the player can't see. But hey I'm sure people will gladly pay a premium to see a few more pixels because the HUD is moved a bit to the side. Unconventionally shaped screens also create problems from a design perspective. But hey, I'm sure 3rd parties won't mind optimizing their games for a niche of an already shrinking market.
I don't get why you keep bringing phones into the discussion. If you want a rough idea of what Nintendo's handheld will be like in terms of power and screen res you should look at the Vita and not at mobile phones

Sorry but adding pointless SKUs that fragment a shrinking userbase does not seem interesting to me. If you came up with some good concepts then I would agree that Nintendo should implement this technology but then I'd want all models to include this kind of screen so that the userbase would not be split.

Great-God · Jan 11, 2015

Atmej said:
Except the high end competitor has never once won in the handheld space.
Your suggestions for potential applications sound so pointless. Let's waste power and battery life on rendering things the player can't see. But hey I'm sure people will gladly pay a premium to see a few more pixels because the HUD is moved a bit to the side. Unconventionally shaped screens also create problems from a design perspective. But hey, I'm sure 3rd parties won't mind optimizing their games for a niche of an already shrinking market.
I don't get why you keep bringing phones into the discussion. If you want a rough idea of what Nintendo's handheld will be like in terms of power and screen res you should look at the Vita and not at mobile phones

Sorry but adding pointless SKUs that fragment a shrinking userbase does not seem interesting to me. If you came up with some good concepts then I would agree that Nintendo should implement this technology but then I'd want all models to include this kind of screen so that the userbase would not be split.

Well as you say it doesn't add anything to gameplay per se, but this kind of handheld would also be a phone. I mean, do you see Nintendo making a Vita 2? I don't.
And IDK, people bashed Nintendo for 3D, a supposed gimmick. They've been adding gimmicks to their consoles since ever. And speaking of Vita, why kill battery life and price with an expensive full RGB OLED screen and a KILLER SoC that not even phones twice its price had?
The more I think about it the least likely to happen it seems, but I'd just like to see it. Anyway, there's nothing much in terms of controls to add to this hypothetical handheld.

Also, I thought this console was being designed by an American team? That would mean, current technology.

martino · Jan 11, 2015

i don't expect this....
It's a huge mistake (imo) to spend ressources (display/power) on hidden areas.

DizzyCrow · Jan 11, 2015

Great-God said:
Well as you say it doesn't add anything to gameplay per se, but this kind of handheld would also be a phone. I mean, do you see Nintendo making a Vita 2? I don't.
And IDK, people bashed Nintendo for 3D, a supposed gimmick. They've been adding gimmicks to their consoles since ever. And speaking of Vita, why kill battery life and price with an expensive full RGB OLED screen and a KILLER SoC that not even phones twice its price had?
The more I think about it the least likely to happen it seems, but I'd just like to see it. Anyway, there's nothing much in terms of controls to add to this hypothetical handheld.

Also, I thought this console was being designed by an American team? That would mean, current technology.

Nintendo consoles are designed in US since the N64.

MrNyarlathotep · Jan 11, 2015

Great-God said:
And yes it would be expensive, but also cool as fuck, and cooler than a standard screen.
Personally, I think Nintendo's gonna Nintendo, but hope is the last thing to die.

If by "nintendo gonna nintendo" you mean they consider things like ergonomics more important design principles than "does it look cool as fuck?" and "is it really expensive?", then yeah.

Great-God · Jan 11, 2015

DizzyCrow said:
Nintendo consoles are designed in US since the N64.

Until Gamecube. IIRC DS, Wii, 3DS and Wii U had engineering teams in Japan, including the choice of processors. This time, the SoC team is in Redmond, the rest of the hardware could be designed in Japan.

MrNyarlathotep said:
If by "nintendo gonna nintendo" you mean they consider things like ergonomics more important design principles than "does it look cool as fuck?" and "is it really expensive?", then yeah.

You could put it that way. Also, that'd be using 2009 technology in a 2012 console.
Not that their games aren't great, but their consoles are always dissapointing from a technical pespective. For the same price it was released, the Wii U could have had a 28nm AMD APU with a GCN 500+ GFLOPs GPU.

BTW, I LOVE my 3DS

also · Jan 11, 2015

Great-God said:
Well as you say it doesn't add anything to gameplay per se, but this kind of handheld would also be a phone. I mean, do you see Nintendo making a Vita 2? I don't.
And IDK, people bashed Nintendo for 3D, a supposed gimmick. They've been adding gimmicks to their consoles since ever. And speaking of Vita, why kill battery life and price with an expensive full RGB OLED screen and a KILLER SoC that not even phones twice its price had?
The more I think about it the least likely to happen it seems, but I'd just like to see it. Anyway, there's nothing much in terms of controls to add to this hypothetical handheld.

Also, I thought this console was being designed by an American team? That would mean, current technology.

Even if it was a phone, which is highly unlikely, it would be better to, as someone else already suggested in this thread, have detachable controls. Otherwise the controls would make the phone cumbersome to operate and the circle pad would break if people stuffed it in their pockets as they do with phones.

Well the 3DS deviated from their traditional design philosophy; expensive, poor battery life and poor ergonomics due to the 3D effect breaking so easily. I think they learnt their lesson and won't repeat the same mistake again.

I think the next handheld and home console will share the same library and that Nintendo will keep the dual screen design but add some kind of twist. The home console will be somewhere on the level of Xbone and PS4 and the handheld somewhere on Vita's level.

efyu_lemonardo · Jan 12, 2015

Refreshment.01 said:
Where have you seen that idea before? And specifically attached to a touch screen?

This occured to me on my own, the only overlays i' ve seen before for videogame systems were in the first videogame consoles and that was for the TV as a way to provide colors to the visuals. The other similar thing would be swappable buttons or pieces on a controller, this has been talked about alot already.

Remember since this depends of the touch screen we arent talking about swapping buttons in a traditional controller, the overlays would be a lot more simple with fewer parts than the innards of traditional controllers.

Btw, the idea is for a console controller not the portable. This thread is not portable specefic nor even console as we don't know where the free form screen would be used, for all we know it could be for the QOL platform.

Regarding the amount of pieces of plastic, there wouldn't be that many. You would have 1 main one for the mayority of games. In my case, the one i would use is GC satelite layout with that big A button. i think is better thought out than the diamond shaped one.

The great thing is that you would have lots of options. At the least is something more useful and closer to reality than the concept with the buttons sticking from the screens we have seen resurrected in this thread.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tan...d=0CAUQ_AUoAA&dpr=1#q=tangible+screen+overlay

The one from microsoft research has some nice illustrations too, and you can look up the referenced papers as well.
I don't mean to be discouraging, I like your way of thinking. You should look up some of the research that's been done on programmable haptic displays, tangible interfaces, dynamic physical buttons for touch screens, etc. For example MIT has done some interesting things over the years.
There's a ton of research going on for this stuff since the eighties or nineties, and some even before that.
It's definitely something a lot of people want to see happen.

Refreshment.01 · Jan 12, 2015

efyu_lemonardo said:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tan...d=0CAUQ_AUoAA&dpr=1#q=tangible+screen+overlay

The one from microsoft research has some nice illustrations too, and you can look up the referenced papers as well.
I don't mean to be discouraging, I like your way of thinking. You should look up some of the research that's been done on programmable haptic displays, tangible interfaces, dynamic physical buttons for touch screens, etc. For example MIT has done some interesting things over the years.
There's a ton of research going on for this stuff since the eighties or nineties, and some even before that.
It's definitely something a lot of people want to see happen.

This is super engaging stuff. Most of the links so far that i' ve seen talk about the first tangent of our conversation, that it is some sort of super exotic material or process to simulate resistance or texture in a touch screen. The ones that make emphasis on a physcial overllay have been quite rare. i' ll see if can set some time appart to read a bit more.

It's kind of weird thought, that since you took the time to read some of these stuff previously, watching you somewhat taking seriously the idea of the free form screen with the buttons sticking out the way we have seen in the mock ups in this thread. Outside of the "coolness" factor there's not much something setup like that can bring to the table from my pov.

Spyder_Monkey · Jan 12, 2015

aza said:

I mean it looks cool, but it's not practical to put the buttons on the screen even with a "safe zone". Plus that design looks fragile, Nintendo would never go for something like this. Nice try though

Darryl · Jan 12, 2015

Just wanna chime in and say that those 100% screen area handheld screens are a hit toy in the making if they could get them affordable. They'd go viral as hell. This idea sounds like something they'd use for their QOL, though.

Sevenfold · Jan 12, 2015

Respawn said:
Of course it won't be donut shaped. Nintendo does this to throw off the competition.

Banana shaped 3DS confirmed!

Darryl said:
Just wanna chime in and say that those 100% screen area handheld screens are a hit toy in the making if they could get them affordable. They'd go viral as hell. This idea sounds like something they'd use for their QOL, though.

Isn't it a strength issue? Fragility around the edges? I want edge to edge displays on everything but I don't think we're quite there yet.

Graphics Horse · Jan 12, 2015

Pretzel shaped screen

Sevenfold said:
Isn't it a strength issue? Fragility around the edges? I want edge to edge displays on everything but I don't think we're quite there yet.

I think if Nintendo made that it would have at least 5mm edge around the screen for protection.
But in turn, that means the controls can be a bit closer to the edge of the screen area.

Mihael Mello Keehl · Jan 12, 2015

Maybe if you guys would think about how a game could be designed and benefits with a 100% screen there could be some thought behind it. I can tell if they went with it be the first people laughing.

watershed · Jan 13, 2015

Seeing the prototypes in the OP, this seems to make more sense for the QoL platform no? Something clock-shape-ish to sit on your bedside table?

Refreshment.01 · Jan 15, 2015

watershed said:
Seeing the prototypes in the OP, this seems to make more sense for the QoL platform no? Something clock-shape-ish to sit on your bedside table?

That's what's been said. The device need some "personality" and appealing look. The hole in the middle could be used to house the sensor something like HAL from Space Oddissey or to contain a button or buttons.

Is not that there arent any potential advantages for a free form screen in a handheld, but just plastering the screen over a traditional button setup is not something clever or that brings any meaningful.

Ninja Scooter · Jan 15, 2015

watershed said:
Seeing the prototypes in the OP, this seems to make more sense for the QoL platform no? Something clock-shape-ish to sit on your bedside table?

For some reason when this was first announced I pictured something similar to the old iPod click wheel, only it's a screen so it can have context senstive actions that keep changing depending on the application. Could be useful on something similar to a Nest thermostat style device

efyu_lemonardo · Jan 15, 2015

Refreshment.01 said:
That's what's been said. The device need some "personality" and appealing look. The hole in the middle could be used to house the sensor something like HAL from Space Oddissey or to contain a button or buttons.

Is not that there arent any potential advantages for a free form screen in a handheld, but just plastering the screen over a traditional button setup is not something clever or that brings any meaningful.

Sorry, missed your previous post. It's not that I think this is the most clever or revolutionary idea. It's that I've been following these kinds of technologies for a long time and they are very slow to develop and mature, and Nintendo needs something to use as a gimmick to sell their devices in the mean time, even if that gimmick is just a fad.

I fully believe they are headed towards the direction you explained in your ideal scenario, but they also have to work with what's currently available and marketable. The trouble is a proper technological evolution doesn't come around every five years like clockwork, and it's just as important to survive long enough to be there to implement it when it does.

Refreshment.01 · Mar 15, 2015

efyu_lemonardo said:
Sorry, missed your previous post. It's not that I think this is the most clever or revolutionary idea. It's that I've been following these kinds of technologies for a long time and they are very slow to develop and mature, and Nintendo needs something to use as a gimmick to sell their devices in the mean time, even if that gimmick is just a fad.

I fully believe they are headed towards the direction you explained in your ideal scenario, but they also have to work with what's currently available and marketable. The trouble is a proper technological evolution doesn't come around every five years like clockwork, and it's just as important to survive long enough to be there to implement it when it does.

A ginmick of this type, such a plastering the physical buttons on top of the screen withouth any taught put into it would fail in the short term. The Wii U Gamepadd has a lot of engineering put it, far better than this concept and it didn't gather much interest.

Here's another idea in the same lines but with real functionality. Imagine the controller with the touch screen in the center, but the edges are circular. Imagine two of this added to each sde of the center screen:

On top of the round parts you can screw (imagine a cap) transparent overlays. This way you have different buttons setups and a symmetrical controller. At the least in this way you are using the free form screen to add some functionality. If they add some haptic feedback the likes of fujistsu or senseg, you can even use any of those circular areas as trackpads.

Noobcraft · Mar 15, 2015

If anyone could do onscreen buttons right I would think Nintendo could. This is the company that sold 100 million consoles with a motion controller and 100+ million handhelds with two screens...

666 · Mar 16, 2015

Maybe it'll be a big screen with buttons but those buttons are also screens. Deal with it.

Niosai · Mar 16, 2015

I think maybe it'd be something like having the hole in the middle be for a joystick. The screen would be small. I can't think of a practical use, though.

halfbeast · Mar 16, 2015

it's obviously for sailor transformations.

Meffer · Mar 16, 2015

aza said:
Thanks

Yup, perfect. Thanks for expanding on the concept. I'll add a rough 2.35:1 grid just for reference, too:

All vital visuals/HUD elements would go in green, all other (not as important) reference material in red. Just because the areas in red can often be covered by your hands, though, doesn't mean the screen estate used there is wasted and therefore not useful. In this very simple implementation of a Zelda HUD, with the XABY buttons, a quick lift of the thumb would show you which button corresponds to which item. The Gear, Map, and Item functions usually available on the 3DS' lower screen could perhaps be able to be brought up by simply tapping on the lower part of the main screen. That's one idea.

So far, we've only explored basic button labels. But obviously, there's limitless and better uses for a wraparound screen concept like this. For example, take something like ammo count: instead of that number being tucked away on the corner HUDs of a traditional screen, the number is right there next to the button your finger is on for super quick, easy to locate reference. Or take something like, an action you can only perform a limited amount times. Maybe a speed boost that you can only perform 3 times in a row before having to wait 5 seconds to recharge. You would have 3 big bars wrapped around their corresponding button, each bar depleting everytime time you used a boost. The bars would appear to be wrapped around your thumb. Then when you're all out of speed boosts, a big outer ring takes their place and it depletes for 5 seconds, letting you know how long it'll take to recharge your power.

As far as ergonomics, I reckon if you were just to take the back of the Wii U's GamePad, slim it up and slap it on the back of the device, you'd end up with something pretty comfortable:

This would kill the battery life.

MutFox · Mar 16, 2015

Nintendo Star Controller finally!!

:|

magnumpy · Mar 16, 2015

I thought handhelds were dead.

makes more sense for their QoL device, whatever that is.

Refreshment.01 · Mar 28, 2015

To expand on what i was saying regarding the circular screen, something like this but with haptic feedback:

Tathanen · Mar 28, 2015

I hope their next controller looks literally exactly like that. Just a horrifying mishmash of old controller parts they had in the dumpster out back.

Refreshment.01 · Mar 29, 2015

Tathanen said:
I hope their next controller looks literally exactly like that. Just a horrifying mishmash of old controller parts they had in the dumpster out back.

The point is the proof of concept to get a rough idea of the device, that's typically how early design concepts are brought to life. If the concept is deemed worthy then they polish the design into something with a more digestable presentation. For example, look at these prototypes:

The "mishmash of old controller parts", is a rather interesting comment since those are mostly Wii Remote parts with a touch screen and grip sensors in each side. Unless you are talking about the GC buttons and stick? Those are just a HUD proyected in the haptic touch screen.

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