RowdyReverb
Member
But won't everything on their blog be skewed positively? Is there an indie review site or thread here that gives more objective reviews?
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One Year Later: Does XB1 still lag behind PS4 for new digital game releases? (yes)
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
outunderthestars
Banned
Looking at the list, my first thought is that it is great to see so !any indie games coming to consoles. 
Melchiah
Member
You learn about the upcoming games there. Nothing stops you from looking what other sources say, like this forum for example.
EDIT.2: There's a monthly indie thread here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1120064
EDIT:
Looking at the list, my first thought is that it is great to see so !any indie games coming to consoles.
My thoughts as well. I don't need to look longingly to the PC side anymore, or to play them on my laptop. SOMA and The Vanishing of Ethan Carter coming to the PS4 was a dream come true for me.
The games usually have user reviews and ratings on Steam, PSN etc. Then there's the GAF threads and Metacritic too. YouTube impressions and play throughs too.
RowdyReverb
Member
Thanks, both. I want to try and get a better idea of what games are coming out, but it seemed a bit overwhelming.
Melchiah
Member
shinobi602 also makes monthly threads about released console games, which include indies: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1116872
walltowall
Member
I mentioned this before, but if you are looking for indie games on XB1, this is a great resource. They often have devs stream new titles as well so you can get a good feel.
http://www.idatxbox.com/
If you're on the console itself, Major Nelson does a weekly show where he runs down all of the new releases or you can go to the store where the new releases are the first thing that pops up.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Law of averages. It does mean more quality games. The larger the pool, the more good and bad games. Ratio might stay the same but more is more.
I'd rather have more choices than fewer.
Yeah, it was quite ridiculous.
It's certainly possible.
The vitrol that gets directed towards indies is just shameful. It must be awful for devs to show off their game, only to receive responses like "why is Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo wasting resources on this?" - as if a platform holder giving an indie a dev kit actually prevents first party titles from being released.
That could simply mean the people playing the games have poor taste
How do the reviews compare to their PC/ps4 counterparts
Could just be the community over there on that console.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
So, is yours still cancelled on Xbox?
The 8-Bit Raider
Member
Very good observation, this may very well be the case with regard to that platform. This is definitely worth researching.
Edit: I'm not saying that they have poor taste, just different tastes.
I think this is somewhat overblown at this point. I mean don't get me wrong, Microsoft still has its head up its ass when it comes to indies and stuff like the Shovel Knight retail version being cancelled. However PS4 and Xbox 1 are rapidly turning into Steam or the App Stores, there's just so many shitty little games that I could give a fuck about popping up that having more isn't necessarily an advantage. It's actually more annoying to have to scroll through all that garbage.
This is a situation that's only gonna get worse too. I assume once Windows 10 hits Xbox One they'll have universal apps and follow through with their every console is a dev kit which will really open the floodgates. When there are hundreds of titles releasing every day is OP gonna make a thread saying PS4 is lagging behind Xbox? Does that even matter? Having more volume of shovelware games isn't a feather is your cap.
I'm aware there are some great indies too but they are few and far between and without curation they are only going to be harder to find.
This is a situation that's only gonna get worse too. I assume once Windows 10 hits Xbox One they'll have universal apps and follow through with their every console is a dev kit which will really open the floodgates. When there are hundreds of titles releasing every day is OP gonna make a thread saying PS4 is lagging behind Xbox? Does that even matter? Having more volume of shovelware games isn't a feather is your cap.
I'm aware there are some great indies too but they are few and far between and without curation they are only going to be harder to find.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Looking at our recently announced game...
A quick google search and only showing negative comments - from all Xbox related sites:
^I was rolling reading this. I, apparently, make a lot of crap
^That one is amazing since they apparently never looked at footage.
I SAID DAMN! XD
And now a look at the PlayStation specific comments leveled at my game found across the web:
There were a few others in a GAF thread about my game but I won't post those here. I am finding a lot more negative comments coming from a single demographic. Unsure why - I know both platforms have people who outright dismiss indies but there's a lot more on one side than another. I don't know how much of a bearing this has on developers but I'm not the only one to notice. I had a lot of people on both sides say very good things so this is not the majority. Purely anecdotal.
EDIT: I should put some of these quotes on the game's site: "What people are saying!" I can put those right after Fenjamin Branklin's "I've stopped flying kites for this?" Comment
For the time being. If I can hire someone else to help me build for other platforms that would be great. As it is we are nixing Mac and Linux builds until after release. If I can find someone to help with conversion that would be stellar. As it is - I have a day job and need to pay bills. The likelihood of me hiring someone to help with Box/Nix/X builds is slim at the moment.
Bolivar687
Banned
There already is curation.
justsomeguy
Member
Sorry to labour the point - this may be a limitation of unity vs. an out and out native dev environment, but the whole purpose of #if (as opposed to a regular 'if') is to have code that *doesnt* get compiled if the predicate isn't met. I'll have a tinker with unity when I get a chance and see what can/cant be done; in my mind you'd define a generic interface (say, IOnlineManager with generic methods such as Connect, GetUserProfile, etc.), use a factory to instantiate the relevant one for your platform (say LiveOnlineManager or PSNOnlineManager) (IOnlineManager myManager = PlatformFactory.GetOnlineManager()), then in the implementations of the psnonlinemanager and liveonlinemanager use #if to insert empty implementation for the platform you're not compiling for, to avoid those errors. All that pre-amble, my point/question really being with universal apps do you need one fewer concrete implementation because Xbox and pc have the exact same code, whereas with a non universal app you'd have a pconlinemanager in addition to the liveonlinemanager. Apologies again for lack of paragraphs... Beta browser! Edit: This should really be in the dev thread , sorry for the geeky derailing!
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Gotcha. Looking forward to it either way.
Jacksinthe
Banned
There are addons for console compile and those need to be switched whenever you compile to a different platform or you won't be able to compile. I can't keep the PS4 libraries up when compiling for Xbox - I have to remove them. PS4/Xbox have their own libraries and you can't mix them when building. Only one can be active at any one time similar to iOS, Android, Mac, PC, Linux, etc. There is no "one size fits all" compile and it is handled by Unity, not code.
Hope that clears it up.
Thanks!
Thanks OP for the effort you made in compiling the list. Too bad indie games have been "weaponized" in the console war as a result of this, like you said in the OP, and posts in this very thread prove it. I'm talking about this part of your post:
justsomeguy
Member
Yes it does, thanks very much for taking the time to reply, it's fascinating. Sounds like the "universal windows platform" target available in unity 5.2 does what I'm suggesting then. Unity still sounds a bit clunky for multi plat development/compile, what a faff.
Jacksinthe
Banned
No probs! Version control is a must, anyhow but forking and merging and all that can be a pain. If I didn't have a day job I'd be golden but I gotta eat XD
I don't think it's 'weaponized' as much simply one demographic being more inherently repellant towards indie games. As noted by Absinthegames above, whether it be GAF or somewhere else, the negative comments are more apparent on one side of the fence.
Funny thing is, and Chubigans is aware of this, I wanted to create a thread titled -What made the Xbox community hostile towards indie devs - but I didn't go through with it for a couple of reasons~
Some quotes from a few devs I can share-
and here is one from our very own Abdiel
Abdiel said:
KANYE WEST
Banned
This guy is right but he made so many people mad lol
Head.spawn
Junior Member
And on this very forum you have PS customers complaining about indie games.
Anecdotal evidence is pretty useless.
Where are the sales numbers?
PanicFreak
Member
I did a quick search for a couple titles and found the following:
Thomas Was Alone is 5 stars on PS4, 3.5 on Xbox One and Overwhelmingly positive on Steam
Velocity 2X is 4 stars on PS4, 3 on Xbox One and Positive on Steam.
Super Time Force is 4 stars on PS4, 3 on Xbox One and Very Positive on Steam.
Shovel Knight is 5 stars on PS4, 4.5 on Xbox One and Overwhelmingly Positive on Steam.
Based on this extremely limited set, it seems like the user reviews are generally lower for indie games on Xbox than on PS4 or Steam. That said, there are a lot of Indie games that are rated very highly (4 stars and above) on the Xbox Store.
Some of them include Outlast (4.5), Terraria (4.5), The Escapists (4.5), The Long Dark (4.5), The Zombie Army Trilogy (4.5), Limbo (4.5), Life is Strange (4.5), Castle Crashers (4.5), Oddworld New and Tasty (4.5), Rebirth of Issac (4.5), Don't Starve (4.5), Elite Dangerous (4.0), Happy Wars (4.0), Slender the Arrival (4.0), Pinball FX 2 (4.0), among others.
Not included in that list are "indie" games like Ori and the Blind Forest (4.5), Valiant Hearts (4.5), Plants vs. Zombies Garden Warfare 1 (4.0) and 2 (4.5), State of Decay (4.5), D4 (4.0), and Child of Light (4.0), among others.
As such, I'm not sure it's fair to say that the people playing games on Xbox have poor taste or that the community doesn't like indie games because there are a bunch of indie and "indie" games that are highly regarded.
Cause he's not right and people are correcting him. You seem to be confusing anger with education of ignorance.
Actually, he isn't right.
But he is not right, he is ignorant.
And looking through your post history your not much better
The 8-Bit Raider
Member
Hmmm...I guess it all comes down to sales figures then.
The other obvious thing here that you don't mention (although it's covered in 'indifference' to some extent) is that PS4 and Steam have by far the lion's share of the market, and PS4 as a system has been sold at least in part on the promise of more and better indie games, so the audience is primed to look out for them.
PanicFreak
Member
Personally, I think the issue is two fold. First, the PS4 is the leader in sales and the obvious target for indie developers to target. Second, the odds that an Xbox One in the wild being a "secondary console" is much higher, especially for enthusiasts, who are the target consumers for such games. As such, people who own a PS4 and would buy a certain indie game are likely to have already purchased it on the PS4 and will not purchase it when it is released on the Xbox One at a later date. So not only is it the smaller market but the percentage of consumers who are likely to purchase indie games is probably smaller on the Xbox One.
If I were an indie developer, constrained by limited resources, I would likely target PS4 and PC too.
KANYE WEST
Banned
Apparently "education of ignorance" on neogaf is responding to people with popular gifs
KANYE WEST
Banned
Nah, he is right. Go into detail about your favorite indie titles buddy. You been itching for Deer God 2?
EA and Ubisoft are my favourite indie developers.
Prototype Viktor
Member
I like Indies, I like I stumbled upon Ziggurat (even if the final boss a cheap son of a gun). I rarely buy AAA third parties
You mean the 1 animated gif someone used to reply to him, conveniently ignoring the many subsequent post on offering him titles of indies that he ignores and also ignoring the post calling out his shit post on why games hes never heard about are not irrelevant ? Hummm, yes, I would says educating ignorance.
TBiddy
Member
That would be incredibly generalizing.
Even if the parity clause is dead (hope so), the die is basically cast for this gen. Devs ar set up to develop on PS4 first, and now - if the clause has changed - Xbox later. So the Xbox won't be lacking games as much, but it'll still be lagging games. I don't see that changing other than the odd developer here and there.
I thnk the downplaying of indie in this thread (and giantbomb said it too? Shame) is disappointing for anyone interested in games. While many of the titles might not be interesting to you, the overall effect is one of much greater choice, and of more niches being explored. some of those will definitely be somethin close to your interests so everyone should value indie games as a collective whole IMO.
I thnk the downplaying of indie in this thread (and giantbomb said it too? Shame) is disappointing for anyone interested in games. While many of the titles might not be interesting to you, the overall effect is one of much greater choice, and of more niches being explored. some of those will definitely be somethin close to your interests so everyone should value indie games as a collective whole IMO.
And if there are two other people similar to you that think a different 2/3 is junk? Oh look, all the games are adding value to some of you.
The denigration of indie games as some sort of video game refuse unworthy of attention or support continues to appall me. So many of you willing to brush off games just because it has a few less 0s in its budget. If you actually bothered to check some of these games out there is no doubt in my mind you would find something you enjoy. That's the advantage of having such a wide variety of games: there's something for everyone.
Those of you taking this thread as an opportunity to downplay the importance of indies in the current video game market why don't you just try broadening your horizons for a change. You might just find something you well and truly love. It's not like an indie game will be any more of a waste of time than the by the numbers cookie cutter AAA games. yet so many of you are more than happy to plop down $60 on the next assassins creed. At least indies are offering new experiences and ideas and not just yearly retreads with a different backdrop.
Once again Chubigans thanks for all your hard work compiling the OP. It is certainly appreciated and I sincerely hope it's able to reach the right ears so to speak.
Those of you taking this thread as an opportunity to downplay the importance of indies in the current video game market why don't you just try broadening your horizons for a change. You might just find something you well and truly love. It's not like an indie game will be any more of a waste of time than the by the numbers cookie cutter AAA games. yet so many of you are more than happy to plop down $60 on the next assassins creed. At least indies are offering new experiences and ideas and not just yearly retreads with a different backdrop.
Once again Chubigans thanks for all your hard work compiling the OP. It is certainly appreciated and I sincerely hope it's able to reach the right ears so to speak.
Not really surprised. In business as consumer market perception matters and MS created a certain perception early on that continues to linger.
Add to that comments from indies that MS have improved a lot but still trail Sony in seeming open and welcoming and it's a no-brainier PS4 will see more indie titles than XB1 (although good to see XB1 situation improving).
If MS felt this was super urgent they'd be working to be more inviting than Sony but seems they're not. This may be right move for them or not but it will allow Sony to gather up more titles.
Like others I have to note my surprise as some of the views/comments on indies though. Who knew variety or choice was "bad" or that you could be so locked into a view of your branded console you'd actually look down on or dismiss certain games.
Wow but actually I guess fools are everywhere.
Add to that comments from indies that MS have improved a lot but still trail Sony in seeming open and welcoming and it's a no-brainier PS4 will see more indie titles than XB1 (although good to see XB1 situation improving).
If MS felt this was super urgent they'd be working to be more inviting than Sony but seems they're not. This may be right move for them or not but it will allow Sony to gather up more titles.
Like others I have to note my surprise as some of the views/comments on indies though. Who knew variety or choice was "bad" or that you could be so locked into a view of your branded console you'd actually look down on or dismiss certain games.
Wow but actually I guess fools are everywhere.
First off, the term 'indie' game doesn't reflect on the quality whatsoever. In today's climate, everything that isn't getting that AAA money injection is deemed 'indie'.
Secondly, as pointed out before: the law of averages mean that more games means more good game as well as more bad games. The WII and the PS2 were loaded with shovel ware, but also with the best the industry had to offer at the time. Same goes for these 'indie' games.
Lastly, i've spent way way more time on 'indie' games as opposed to AAA games so far this gen, and Sony is doing an incredible job in doing so. We are getting a monthly selection of games that range from decent to incredible, month in month out.
My most played games on ps4 right now ? Don't starve, Galak-Z, Broken age, transistor.
And then there is still stuff like , everybody's gone to rapture, rocket league, Journey, Soma and so much more that i still need to dive into.
Finally, i just want to point out that to me, indies have become invaluable in the homogeneous world that is AAA gaming, and without it, i would get bored far more easily of my favourite hobby. People talk about Indie games like they're a genre, but truth is, if you somehow dismiss the scene, or act like you don't miss it, you talk from ignorance. You simply don't know what you're missing.
Secondly, as pointed out before: the law of averages mean that more games means more good game as well as more bad games. The WII and the PS2 were loaded with shovel ware, but also with the best the industry had to offer at the time. Same goes for these 'indie' games.
Lastly, i've spent way way more time on 'indie' games as opposed to AAA games so far this gen, and Sony is doing an incredible job in doing so. We are getting a monthly selection of games that range from decent to incredible, month in month out.
My most played games on ps4 right now ? Don't starve, Galak-Z, Broken age, transistor.
And then there is still stuff like , everybody's gone to rapture, rocket league, Journey, Soma and so much more that i still need to dive into.
Finally, i just want to point out that to me, indies have become invaluable in the homogeneous world that is AAA gaming, and without it, i would get bored far more easily of my favourite hobby. People talk about Indie games like they're a genre, but truth is, if you somehow dismiss the scene, or act like you don't miss it, you talk from ignorance. You simply don't know what you're missing.
Good post but especially the bolded. MS are second choice for many devs because of what they've had as policy up to now. They've used a stick and it hasn't worked. If they do nothing, they'll get more games but probably still after PS4. If they really want to change that, then they need to try a carrot.
That's correct, but I think that too much choice isn't good either. I'd better have more selected quality games than a flood of bad games.
I'm still waiting for the good games to finally hit the Xbox One. I want more stuff like "Ori and the blind Forest". Especially waiting for Ashen, Below, Cuphead, Tacoma.
Trust me. If something has a bad review on Xbox Live, it's not good.
Then it's good for those other two. I mean, those games wouldn't exist if there wasn't an audience for them to enjoy.
Edit:
I want to add to that the following: There is no 5 star ratings on Xbox Live, because if 1000 rate it 5 stars and 1 person rates it 1/2/3/4 stars, the result will be 4.5. There was one game I inspected recently that had 5 stars and dropped to 4.5 over night. I can't believe that the ps4 games got only positive ratings, there is always a black sheep.
How would Microsoft denying games you are not interested in a release on Xbox create more games that you are interested in?