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Lionhead Studios and Press Play closed. Fable legends cancelled.

Wow.

Holy shit.

I guess it makes sense that things have been so quiet on that front for so long. Brutal.
Going for a F2P Fable game was always a bad idea. This isn't what the fans wanted.

Another dev sacraficed to satisfy market conditions... and set up to fail almost.
 
Damn. Out of the blue!

I feel sorry for those who's lost their jobs and hope they land on their feet.

I wonder if this is the end of the Fable series or if someone else will helm it going forward,
 
Their hardware bombed. 3rd party were willing to work but once the Pad and dated hardware were risky they stopped the support.

I think that's the point. Something about the hardware or the market Nintendo courts (i.e. diehard Nintendo fans) always stops third parties from giving meaningful support. It's not just about making a system they can make games on. As Sony and MS have proven, you have to schmooze these companies. Nintendo just does their own thing and expects third parties to follow them like the pied piper, and that may have worked in the 80s but the industry has changed.
 
The game looked like shit but very sorry to hear about all those people losing their jobs. I wonder if they were forced into that dead end project.
 

wapplew

Member
I used to think it was a great strategy. But large independent studios are increasingly becoming more and more rare as development costs for AAA titles skyrocket. They're all seemingly snatched up by 3rd party publishers and platform holders, and considering it's already slim pickings for Microsoft - that sector of the market undergoing another acquisition or two is going to make that game plan no longer viable.

It doesn't have to be indipendace, CA is making Halo War 2 who is own by Sega.
Fromsoft is own by Kodogawa and made Bloodborne for Sony.
I think MS will go more and more hire studio strategy.
 

RE_Player

Member
Going for a F2P Fable game was always a bad idea. This isn't what the fans wanted.
They should have just redeemed themselves with a brand new traditional Fable game on Xbox One.

Think about since Fable 3 we've gotten Fable: Coin Golf, Fable Heroes, Fable: The Journey and Fable Legends announced.
 
What the heck microsoft .

I'm very lost by this decision ... fablelegends looked quite advanced and i have no idea how a project you spend so many hours pushing forward just stop.

I don't like fable , but WHAT A WEIRD turn of events.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
The game didn't pan out. Not sure why it's wrong on many levels?

What's wrong is Microsoft green lit the project let it stay in alpha-beta, pumped alot of money in showing it off. And instead of just releasing what seems to be a decent 75-80% complete game on PC, and let the studio/team start on something new, they are shutting down a studio that has a lot of legacy, especially for XBox.

Fable on OG xbox was as influential to it's brand as halo IMHO.

To let the studio die is like Sony closing all of Santa Monica studios.

And like some other's have noted, Fable should not have been made into a Kinect game on 360, nor should it have been a F2p moba style game. That could have been something entirely with a different name and no one would have known the difference. Microsoft just destroyed one of their own legacy studios. What's next on the chopping block once a game doesn't fall under expectations?

Also QB though exclusive third party, I know is expensive as shit, and so was Alan Wake. If QB bombs or doesn't meet expectations, Microsoft will cut ties with them and I doubt knowing their production issues, anyone would want to invest into a money pit, regardless of their talent.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Of course, including them. At the minute, is it only MS, Sony, EA, Ubisoft and Activision?

I get what you are saying, I was only teasing.

Yeah, just like the telecom industry where the news went from over 700 individually owned and operated businesses (in the 60's), down to just 6 now (CBS, NBC, ABC/Disney, etc), in less than 40 years.

Food is the same way. Most of the food in the center isles are owned by about 5-8 large corporations as well (Unilever, Kraft, etc).

Scary world when these things are allowed to happen.
 
I think that's the point. Something about the hardware or the market Nintendo courts (i.e. diehard Nintendo fans) always stops third parties from giving meaningful support. It's not just about making a system they can make games on. As Sony and MS have proven, you have to schmooze these companies. Nintendo just does their own thing and expects third parties to follow them like the pied piper, and that may have worked in the 80s but the industry has changed.

Nintendo burned bridges with the N64 and its "Dream Team" that they'll never rebuild, ever.

Fable on OG xbox was as influential to it's brand as halo IMHO.
lol!
 
What's wrong is Microsoft green lit the project let it stay in alpha-beta, pumped alot of money in showing it off. And instead of just releasing what seems to be a decent 75-80% complete game on PC, and let the studio/team start on something new, they are shutting down a studio that has a lot of legacy, especially for XBox.

Fable on OG xbox was as influential to it's brand as halo IMHO.

To let the studio die is like Sony closing all of Santa Monica studios.

It happens. Sometimes games are green lit and developed that don't turn out the way they expected. if Microsoft doesn't believe in the game anymore, why should they release it?
 

Shin-Ra

Junior Member
"Hey, we just killed 3 studios, do you want to join Microsoft studio"
2488111-3381732308-Untit.gif
 
Don't really know much about either of the two studios or their IPs but that still blows, and I hope the staff find new jobs quickly. It especially is painful in Lionhead's case as they were one of MS's older first-party studios.

I wonder how much longer Rare is gonna last at this point, honestly.

Honestly, ever since they've been downsized and were retooled to work on Kinect games throughout late 2000s - early 2010s since BK: N&B flopped, I'm surprised Rare wasn't canned during that interim.

With that said, I have a feeling Rare Replay and Sea of Thieves may end up collectively being something of a last hurrah for the studio, I totally agree with those predicting that how Sea of Thieves sells will be the sink-or-swim situation for that studio. If/when that happens I just hope MS just sells their assets (back) to Nintendo, rather than just continuing to sit on a bunch of classic IPs that they never really made good use with in the first place (KI being the lone exception).

Pause and think about the reaction the gaming world and gaming press would have to the shuttering of Rare. You don't want that kind of PR, ever.

I honestly don't expect MS to even hesitate at the thought of burying Rare to be honest. They'd probably just frame the sales' performance of Rare's games ever since their acquisition entirely in a vacuum (that is to say, they wouldn't factor in any staff changes, problems people had with the games themselves, the Xbox brand's demographics, any executive mandates done at MS's own behest, etc.) and declare they never printed much cash for them and are thus fit for closure.
 

SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
What's wrong is Microsoft green lit the project let it stay in alpha-beta, pumped alot of money in showing it off. And instead of just releasing what seems to be a decent 75-80% complete game on PC, and let the studio/team start on something new, they are shutting down a studio that has a lot of legacy, especially for XBox.

Fable on OG xbox was as influential to it's brand as halo IMHO.

To let the studio die is like Sony closing all of Santa Monica studios.

Nothing like Santa Monica, IMO. Santa Monica functions much like MS Studios with their collaborations with independent developers. It's still a big studio, though. Absolute bummer...
 

H3xum

Member
Holy crap. I did NOT see that coming.

The beta was relatively well received.

Ah man. I liked the vibe Lionhead gave off. Too bad

R.I.P. dreams of a proper Fable 2-esque single player game.
 
Just like they had nothing to fear from the Wii...

So what you're saying is that Sony should be worried about Nintendo releasing a competently powerful box and stealing all of the 3rd party support? Nevermind PS4's nearly 40m strong userbase, heavily populated network and Sony's 3rd party relations? Microsoft have nothing to worry about either, as a matter of fact.

I swear NX is making people lose their goddamn minds.
 
Well since the game is dead then the NDA is up so...

The visuals were really good - UE4 is a beauty at 1080/60 but unfortunately there was some hitching and shit like that because of the lack of exclusive fullscreen.
As for gameplay - mediocre, needless to say. The prettiest graphics in the world couldn't get me to log in on a regular basis (or god forbid spend my real money).
They actually pushed an update last week that added daily challenges, but alas...

Edit: I forgot to mention I also really liked the characters they were coming up with.

Are you talking about the Xbox version?
The game wasnt 1080p or 60fps on XboxOne. And it really got downgraded from the first beta.
It had aliasing going on, rough textures and models. Veeeery long loading times.
 

Lime

Member
Microsoft have possibly the most eye-rolling first party mission statement in terms of genre diversity.

Battletech IP is doing fine

In no thanks to Microsoft, that's for sure. They buried the whole series and just sit on it. If not for other developers and personal motivation, the digital legacy of Battletech would be relegated to the abyss.

The old games are still AWOL and Microsoft isn't doing anything to redistribute the old games.
 
Nintendo burned bridges with the N64 and its "Dream Team" that they'll never rebuild, ever.

Deep down I don't think they want to. They'll throw a little money at the occasional token third party support to keep up appearance, but I don't think they have any interest in wasting their time/money in curating a meaningful third party library for their consoles.
 

KampferZeon

Neo Member
Microsoft has money to buy Minecraft for 2.5 billion, and unknown fees for TitanFall and TR, but couldn't spare some pocket change to get Fable done?
The Order 1866 got released and bombed. hey but Sony let Read At Dawn go on their own.
why can't Lionhead be independent again?
Just feels like same old Microsoft wouldn't play nice if they are not winning ( in any market they entered )
 

prwxv3

Member
So what you're saying is that Sony should be worried about Nintendo releasing a competently powerful box and stealing all of the 3rd party support? Nevermind PS4's nearly 40m strong userbase, heavily populated network and Sony's 3rd party relations?

I swear NX is making people lose their goddamn minds.

The resulting meltdowns once the NX is revealed to not be what everyone wants (unless you have proper expectations) will be glorious.
 
Microsoft has money to buy Minecraft for 2.5 billion, and unknown fees for TitanFall and TR, but couldn't spare some pocket change to get Fable done?
The Order 1866 got released and bombed. hey but Sony let Read At Dawn go on their own.
why can't Lionhead be independent again?
Just feels like same old Microsoft wouldn't play nice if they are not winning ( in any market they entered )

Sony never owned Ready At Dawn.
 
What the heck is going on in the Xbox division?!

I'm wondering this too. I like my Xbox but seeing these kind of news doesn't make me want to invest in the platform as the outlook looks kinda bad. It looks like a slow exit from consoles strategy to me. Not sure the "i believe in phil spencer" applies anymore.
 
Wow, I did not see this coming at all, this is so sad. I hope everyone that lost their job land on their feet. AAA space is tight as fuck nowadays and Legends wasn't such a hot decision.
 
Microsoft has money to buy Minecraft for 2.5 billion, and unknown fees for TitanFall and TR, but couldn't spare some pocket change to get Fable done?
The Order 1866 got released and bombed. hey but Sony let Read At Dawn go on their own.
why can't Lionhead be independent again?
Just feels like same old Microsoft wouldn't play nice if they are not winning ( in any market they entered )

Ready At Dawn was never Sony 1st party studio
 
Microsoft has money to buy Minecraft for 2.5 billion, and unknown fees for TitanFall and TR, but couldn't spare some pocket change to get Fable done?
The Order 1866 got released and bombed. hey but Sony let Read At Dawn go on their own.
why can't Lionhead be independent again?
Just feels like same old Microsoft wouldn't play nice if they are not winning ( in any market they entered )

Sony never owned Ready at Dawn. That's apples and oranges.

And all money/investments are not the same. Putting money into Minecraft, Titanfall and even Tomb Raider had, at the time, much higher prospects than a Fable game that was garnering next to no buzz. They probably saw the former as smarter investments, even if they didn't pan out quite how they expected, and to be honest I can't blame them.
 

bengraven

Member
Are the original brothers still there? They were most of the heart of Fable. I like the idea of them being freed of MS.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Going for a F2P Fable game was always a bad idea. This isn't what the fans wanted.

More likely it was just too similar to the model employed by Rare's thing. Publishers generally try not to compete with themselves by putting two products with many similarities out in the same time-frame; its what happened to eight days on PS3.

Uncharted looked better, so it got canned.
 

Papacheeks

Banned

Please elaborate what the fuck is so "LOL"?

Please? I'm dying to know?

Fable was a game that showcased xbox's choice with PC type developers in the beginning, the same with how they utilized what Microsoft concentrated on for graphics processing from Nvidia.

Unless there's something I'm missing?
 
So what you're saying is that Sony should be worried about Nintendo releasing a competently powerful box and stealing all of the 3rd party support? Nevermind PS4's nearly 40m strong userbase, heavily populated network and Sony's 3rd party relations? Microsoft have nothing to worry about either, as a matter of fact.

I swear NX is making people lose their goddamn minds.

It's mind blowing how over board some are going with NX.
 
Microsoft has money to buy Minecraft for 2.5 billion, and unknown fees for TitanFall and TR, but couldn't spare some pocket change to get Fable done?
The Order 1866 got released and bombed. hey but Sony let Read At Dawn go on their own.
why can't Lionhead be independent again?
Just feels like same old Microsoft wouldn't play nice if they are not winning ( in any market they entered )

Sony never owned Ready at Dawn. They funded The Order but they did not fund the studio at large. Lionhead was wholly owned by MSFT, therefore, if they wanted to go it alone, they'd have to seek a new investor/publisher.

It's incredibly hard to go from a multi million dollar subsidiary to independent. Bungie managed it because they were Bungie, and had the industry clout and capital.

It's mind blowing how over board some are going with NX.

Really is. I don't mind speculation, because it's fun, but some of the stuff I'm seeing is becoming increasingly fanboyish and delusional, and distracts from the actual discourse.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Microsoft Studios is now publishing only the biggest hits
Let's just recap Microsoft's generation in review:
- Start Lift London
- Downsize the XBLA/Microsoft Studios team because MS doesn't want to be in the business of publishing so many indie games
- Close Microsoft Victoria
- Cancel Black Tusk's original game and make them the Gears studio
- Close Xbox Entertainment Studios
- Buy Mojang
- Merge Lift London with other UK-based small teams
- Promote Kudo to oversee Lift London and other UK based teams
- Kudo transfered out of Microsoft Games
- Spin off Twisted Pixel Games
- Close Press Play
- Close Lionhead

In light of the W10/Xbox One news recently, I would interpret this as the following: Microsoft does not see themselves as a hardware platform owner anymore. As a result, their interest in developing games is no longer about establishing a diverse portfolio (even at a loss), but instead about just publishing games only if they make reliable money with no risk. Hence why they're willing to sign with outside partners, and hence why they're still making Halo, Forza, Minecraft, and Gears. If you were going to transition away from the hardware model but still wanted to publish the odd game and didn't want to shut down the division at all, this is exactly what you'd do. Besides these franchises, almost all of Microsoft's first-party partners are now working on Hololens, and it's not clear that Hololens is going to be a consumer focused gaming product during the Xbox One's lifespan. The exceptions: the Project Spark team (W10/XO--whose game got shut down) and Decisive Games (presumably working on AoE, for W10/XO), and Rare.

As it relates to Press Play, Microsoft's purchase never really made any sense to begin with, just as it didn't with Twisted Pixel, but my thoughts at the time were that it was driven by wanting to have a robust portfolio of indie exclusives as other indie titles went increasingly multiplatform. Neither company had mega hits, although both had some success. In addition, neither company was all that large, so shutting them down isn't just a vote of non-confidence, it's a vote that they aren't even interested in owning those types of companies.

Microsoft did a pretty crap job of making use of Lionhead
Finally, separate from the musing about Microsoft Studios, I think Lionhead Studios has been treated extremely poorly by Microsoft. Microsoft did not secure Black & White from EA or The Movies from Activision when they bought Lionhead. The lack of care about the studio's non-Fable history was palpable. Also let it be noted that every non-Fable game they worked on under Microsoft got cancelled. Which would be OK if they cared about Fable, but here's what they did with Fable:
- Fable 1 gets a late PC port
- Fable 2 never gets a PC port
- Fable 3 gets a GFWL PC port that gets discontinued years ago when they run out of keys, MS never bothers to remove GFWL
- Fable Heroes never gets a PC port
- Fable The Journey never gets a PC port
- Fable Anniversary gets a late PC port with a rocky launch
- Fable Legends cancelled during beta

Microsoft sucks at F2P
Let's talk about free to play, though. Free to play is a pretty exciting business model for publishers and fans alike, if executed properly. MS has really sent some big signals about F2P and their interest in it. How have they done?

- In Summer 2011, Microsoft publishes Age of Empires Online for PC (GFWL). The game was developed by Robot Entertainment, also known as the company that formed when Microsoft closed Ensemble Studios (the previous developers of Age of Empires). Microsoft had Ensemble develop a console exclusive RTS which ended up being a huge hit but then closed them because I guess they didn't want a PC studio? Who knows? The game started as basically a free demo that required you to pay to buy into most of the content. It also started as a busywork grind. A year later, Microsoft, having basically bungled the game's first year, released the game on Steam (still required GFWL) and lowered the prices. This also did not work. Then a few months later they made the game actually F2P--you could unlock all the content by grinding, or pay to accelerate. A little under 2 years after release, they discontinued development on the game. 8 months later they shut down the servers. As the game is online only, it can no longer be played.
- In 2011, Microsoft publishes Crimson Alliance for XBLA as free to play. Except it turns out they don't understand free to play and the game costs money to play. When they are asked about this, they explain that the demo is free to play (as it was for every other XBLA game released on Xbox 360). ??? Great game, no followup, developer is now a support studio for Halo, no chance of game being ported to a modern platform.
- In 2012, Microsoft launches Windows 8. A variety of the launch games for the platform are "Free to Play", including a great little point and click / hidden object hybrid called Adera. The free to play model for Adera is that you can play the first quarter for free and then pay for the rest. So, again, a demo. Other games are actually free to play, but they're versions of games that used to be entirely free. One game is an endless runner called Gunstringer Dead Man Running. Gunstringer is F2P with currency in a similar model to, say, Jetpack Joyride. This game is shut down in 2014.
- In 2012, Microsoft launches Microsoft Flight, a free to play revival of Flight Simulator. Again, the free content is basically a demo, so it's clear they don't understand Free to Play. The game is locked behind GFWL and is PC exclusive. Five months later, they ceased development on the game, leaving it with nowhere near enough content. In 2013, they removed the ability to purchase any of the content or download the game. In 2014, they shut the servers. Note that Microsoft previously killed the team that made Flight Simulator and then created a new team for this project.
- In October 2012, Microsoft launches the first traditionally F2P game on XBLA: Happy Wars, a Japanese-developed tug of war team based hack and slash multiplayer game. This game went pretty well, although they realized that the business model with F2P is attracting as many people as possible so that you can monetize whales, which was at odds with the whole "you need to pay $50 a year to be able to download this game". It's fine, because the developer went ahead and ported the game to Steam without Microsoft. On Steam it has a few million players.
- In May 2013, Microsoft releases Crash Course 2, a sequel to the free Doritos advertorial game Crash Course. It is pretty well received and very popular, millions on the leaderboards near release. Around the same time they release Crash Course Go, a version of the game for Windows 8. Both games are cancelled less than a year after release and the servers shut down effective immediately.
- In July 2013, Microsoft announces Lift London is working on 4 F2P games. None ever release or are announced.
- In September 2013, Microsoft publishes Ascend: New Gods, by Signal Studios, the popular developers of the Toy Soldiers franchise. This is an F2P dungeon crawl 3rd person ARPG, kinda like Kingdoms of Amalur or Elder Scrolls or a more mechanically intense Fable. The game is actually super popular, lots of people play it. Less than a year after release, Microsoft cancels the game, removes it from sale, and gives everyone 3 day's notice about a server shutdown. Also they do not tell the developer, Signal Studios, who is completely blindsided. Signal ports the game to Steam, where it did OK for a while. It's still available. Signal hasn't worked with Microsoft since.
- A little bit before shutting down Ascend: New Gods, Microsoft shows the first footage of Fable Legends. At the time, the game is not specified as F2P, but it's later clarified to be F2P and Xbox One/Windows 10 cross-play. Microsoft teases 5-10 years of support--that this is the Fable series as we know it going forward. Fable Legends is cancelled during open beta.
- In summer 2014, Microsoft betas Project Spark, a game creation game that's F2P with Microtransactions. The game discontinues development and goes free a year after release, the F2P model having not worked at all.
- In June 2015, Microsoft confirms that they are publishing Gigantic, an Xbox One/Windows 10 cross-play F2P MOBA by indie developer Motiga. The game is in closed beta and moving to open beta this summer. Well, maybe, because a month ago the developer announced significant layoffs.

These are not all of Microsoft's F2P failures--I could also talk about the semi-F2P business model of Game Room, which failed, Microsoft's bad attempts to make their old free Windows parlour games (Minesweeper, Mahjong, Solitaire) into money-making opportunities but instead alienating their audience, Age of Empires: Castle Siege (a bad Clash of Clans clone).

I could also talk about the failure of their cloud gaming initiative by exploring how just about every Microsoft server-based game has been shut down. I could also talk about how Galactic Reign, released by Microsoft as a bold experiment in cloud-based rendering of cutscenes -- pay attention if you like Quantum Break -- shut down 6 months after release, leaving players unable to play the game. I could also talk about how all of Microsoft's major initiatives with the Xbox One: Smartglass, Cloud-based Rendering or Computing Features, and Dedicated Servers are all defunct.


Microsoft is the absolute master of failing at things even when it'd be easier to succeed. The good news is, pretty soon they'll have no more internal studios to shut down besides the ones reliably pumping out their biggest franchises every two years. As someone who bought a lot of Microsoft Game Studios titles and really loved so much of what they accomplished on 360, it sucks that shifting corporate priorities and an unwillingness to fully commit to gaming sabotaged so much of what they could have accomplished.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Not entirely surprising for me since Fable II was their last decent game. I'll miss them mostly for The Movies. It was a great game which sadly didn't turn into a sales hit.
 

Nairume

Banned
Going for a F2P Fable game was always a bad idea. This isn't what the fans wanted.
For what it's worth, Fable as a whole has never been what people/fans wanted.

And maybe that's part of the overall problem. Fable as a whole is/was never going to meet the lofty expectations set for it back during the hype cycle of the first game. Lionhead has spent over a decade trying to figure out how to rework Fable to try and sell it to the public and still never managed to deliver something that satisfied that hype because that bar was set so absurdedly high.
 
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