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Sony confirms PS4 Neo, [Cites smartphone cycle, waiting until enough games post E3]

Rolf NB

Member
What happens to the classic slim consoles though? If bringing out a new upgraded chip is more affordable than die shrinking the existing APU, does that mean the Ps4 will sit on 28nm until EoL?
PS4 isn't that big to begin with. They could reduce weight by trimming the PSU and heat sink materials, while still keeping current shell dimensions.

Of course they will move to 14nm as soon as the process is ready for volume production. Neo will be the premium product => higher price, better margin, but lower volume. Regular PS4 will still need to be as cost-effective as it can be. Staying on an outdated process would go against that.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I thought maybe at first that I misunderstood what you meant when you said hard reset. You meant a successor console, as tradition goes, right?

But anyways, even going with more traditional architecture, I still would've preferred they stick to the cyclical tradition. In that, even if the architecture is the same, the Ps5 would just have much, much greater specs. Same architecture could've just made BC easier.

The benefits, I guess seem mostly to come on the producer's side but the consumer's still seem relatively mixed about the idea. I wish one of these threads had a poll because even though the majority of GAF seems to like the notion of Ps4K and xbone scorpio, there is a sizable minority that doesn't. As for the producer, getting used to new hardware is what it has always been and if it wasn't working then the market would've collapsed; it's been this way and every generation there are hundreds of millions of consoles sold and games that sell tens of millions of units.

Yeah but the platform holders always do get a hold of those companies. That's how this market is. And it works because all their products sell millions of units.

I suppose this is true, so then the producers benefit, but like I was telling the other guy, the consumers don't necessarily benefit, depending on each of their perspectives. The majority seems like they will appreciate it though, but there's a sizable minority that won't, so either way, whatever happens it's going to be a dramatic change in the market. It's gonna change everything.

But even if that is true, how does newer hardware within the same generation fix that problem? It adds to the problem by that logic because it's another product that has to go through this process of selling and either a loss or a time frame of eventually breaking even.

why does that matter? what's clear cut is that there is a profit to be had, something that the Ps3 for a very long time wasn't having and that wasn't blatantly obvious. but that's different here.
Are we talking this generation? Because for the past 7 generations there have been no "starting over from scratch" because it's been the same hardware throughout. This is the first time that within the same generation there's a conversation of change. And going from Ps1 to 2 shows that with making the right moves, hard resets can still be in your favor. it's not about new architecture it's about the right marketing and pricing, that's what Sony did and would need to if the generations continued traditionally.

As for keeping your base locked in your ecosystem, like I was telling the other guys, even though the majority of people seem locked in, there's a sizable minority that doesn't appreciate the direction the generation is going - and that's the reason they won't be locked in not only the playstation ecosystem but maybe even the console market.

Yeah man it's really depressing. To be fair though, we don't know if devs are gonna use the original consoles as the primary development platforms and have upgrade options, or if they will use the better consoles as primaries and have downgrade options in their games. But I agree with you.

As for the NX...if this is iterative shit really is the reality, how do we know in 2 years Nintendo won't come out with an NX+?
I thought at first you were arguing pro-iterative consoles, but your final statement makes it sound like you think it is a bad idea?

I do not think it is a good idea for consumers or for game developers really, but it is something that the HW makers really want and badly.
 

geordiemp

Member
Are we talking this generation? Because for the past 7 generations there have been no "starting over from scratch" because it's been the same hardware throughout.

As for keeping your base locked in your ecosystem, like I was telling the other guys, even though the majority of people seem locked in, there's a sizeable minority that doesn't appreciate the direction the generation is going - and that's the reason they won't be locked in not only the playstation ecosystem but maybe even the console market.

No, not really. Last gen I had a 360, the new generation came out and it was a FRESH start, so I bought the better hardware for gaming in my view, the Ps4. I kept my 360 so I can still play the old games.

Is that hard to understand why that was bad for Microsoft ?

Now. there is new hardware coming out in next year, Nx, Scorpeo and Neo. Neo will play Ps4 games just better, it will have the same store front, all the digital games I have I can continue to play on the better hardware with my same friends list and same digital content.., same saves in the cloud, need I go on ?

Sony has more chance of keeping me in their ecosystem. If it was a clean slate and new hardware altogether, Ps5 games and Xb2 games, I would judge the hardware and might move again. Forwards and backwards compatibility keeps consumers. Its not a hard concept.

Now, from the devloper perspective, they make a game for 60 million Ps4's - thats a nice market. They dont care if they are Ps4 or Neo, they can add some AA and AF for the Neo, same code, same API's. its a nice consumer base. Good business.

Now take Ps5, if it comes out and sells only 5 million in first year, who will make games for it ? RISK, every reset is a RISK until you get a large install base. Again its an easy concept.

The negative side is the few people who are upset that someone has a better console than them, but as everybody is doing it, and PC has always done it, they will accept it like everything else in life where someone pays more for something better.

You can google square enix or take 2 or other developers who actually slowed down going for this gen because of the hard reset and their worry about next gen market size. Games being held back is not what I would call 'good'................................
 
I love happy endings.
i was away from the thread for a while...i heard juniors cannot recover from bans, is this true?
I do not think it is a good idea for consumers or for game developers really,
ah okay cool. on a side note, may I ask the origin of your tag?
but it is something that the HW makers really want and badly.
hardware makers? so in this case it's amd would gain the most and want to push for this change?
No, not really. Last gen I had a 360, the new generation came out and it was a FRESH start, so I bought the better hardware for gaming in my view, the Ps4. I kept my 360 so I can still play the old games.
...well, that's you. it's not like you are a reflection of the entire consumer base that buys into video game consoles.

i bought a Ps3 last gen because i just prefer the playstation platform. it wasn't about power. the generation before that I was gifted a Ps2. a friend of mine had an xbox, and at the time I was pretty amazed (and jealous) at how great the graphics were on that system. but i was satisfied with what I had.

this gen again I got a Ps4. because again, I just prefer playstation. the fact that it was a little more powerful than the competition and essentially the most powerful console on the market was a perk that came with it and I guess the icing on the cake.

Is that hard to understand why that was bad for Microsoft ?
yeah it is hard to understand, because my understanding is that what was bad for mS was their marketing and the fact that they pushed kinect as a necessity which made the console more expensive. weaker hardware wasn't the biggest detriment, otherwise the Ps2 wouldn't have been so successful against the xbox and gamecube, or the Ps1 against the nintendo 64.

Now. there is new hardwrae coming out in next year, Nx, Scorpeo and Neo. Neo will play Ps4 games just better, it will ahve the same store front, all the digital games I have I can continue to play on teh better hardware.

Sony keeps me in their ecosystem. If it was a clean slate and new hardware altogether, Ps5 games and Xb2 games, I would judge the hardware and might move again.

Forwards and backwards compatibility keeps consumers. Its not a hard concept.
You say that as if consumers are all drones without minds of their own. I am a consumer, and I have a mindset, which is different from yours. It's not a concept at all, it is a matter of opinion. And I don't like that the market is moving in this way.

EDIT: you edited your post so I'll add my response to what you added

with my same friends list and same digital content.., same saves in the cloud, need I go on
so what? the hardware is different, either more powerful or less. that fact remains when you play the games.

Now, from the devloper perspective, they make a game for 60 million Ps4's - thats a nice market. They dont care if they are Ps4 or Neo, they can add some AA and AF for the Neo, same code, same API's. its a nice consumer base.

Now take Ps5, if it comes out and sells only 5 million in first year, who will make games for it ? RISK, every reset is a RISK until you get a large install base. Again its an easy concept.
It's not a risk...it'd only be a risk if video game consoles were a new thing. But they're not. They've been around for like 30 years and the markets had them sell this way and profit is made.

The negative side is the few people who are upset that someone has a better console than them,
even if it is a few people, it is a vast few amount of people. I can't speak for everyone but for myself it's not about someone else having a better console, it's just knowing that there's a better option out there for the same game that I'd have to spend hundreds of dollars on again to attain.
but as everybody is doing it, and PC has always done it,
yep see, PC has always done, and consoles have never done it. and both have been complementary to each other all this time
they will accept it like everything else in life where someone pays more for something better.
I'm not entirely sure if I accept it, I know it is a reality but I'll have to wait for more official press release info before deciding what to do. For now I'm not liking anything at all.

EDIT: you edited your post again

You can google square enix or take 2 or other developers who actually slowed down going for this gen because of the hard reset and their worry about next gen market size. Games being held back is not what I would call 'good'................................
games were being held back last gen too but they still sold tens of millions and hundreds of millions of consoles were sold. we won't and will never live in a perfect world in this corporeality.
 

geordiemp

Member
You say that as if consumers are all drones without minds of their own. I am a consumer, and I have a mindset, which is different from ours. It's not a concept at all, it is a matter of opinion. And I don't like that the market is moving in this way.

Forget our personal reasons, Sony themselves said they got allot of 360 players this gen, or allot of new PSN accounts that had not been with Sony before.

There was a big shift this gen MS to Sony, lets face it 360 = ps3 last gen, and in US and UK 360 won easily. This flipped for this gen from last gen.

Thats not your or my story, thats the market. No way does Sony want a new gen, they want iterative consoles every 4 years if they can. MS would want a total reset this time I bet, NX is a total reset anyway.

Either way, everybody will bring new hardware every 3-4 years whatever you want to call it.
 

RootCause

Member
Do you guys expect MS, and Sony to turn Xbox/PS into a platform, like iOS? Where you can play all your purchased content on all future devices?
 
Forget our personal reasons, Sony themselves said they got allot of 360 players this gen, or allot of new PSN accounts that had not been with Sony before.

There was a big shift MS to Sony, lets face it 360 = ps3 last gen, and in US and UK 360 won easily. This flipped.

Thats not your or my story, thats the market. No way does Sony want a new gen, they want iterative consoles every 4 years if they can. MS would want a total reset, NX is a total reset.
and mS got a lot of Ps2 players going into 7th gen with 360. that's just all a matter of marketing and pricing though. what's it got to do with iterative consoles?

what do you mean 360=Ps3 last gen? in terms of sales? sure I would agree although it took sony a very long time to get there. mS doesn't want a reset, I'm sure you've heard the rumors of scorpio. and nintendo isn't oblivious to things so I don't doubt that in the near future there'll be an NX+.
Either way, everybody will bring new hardware every 3-4 years whatever you want to call it.
I call them iterative consoles. there's not any official term yet as far as I know.
 

e-gamer

Member
No, not really. Last gen I had a 360, the new generation came out and it was a FRESH start, so I bought the better hardware for gaming in my view, the Ps4. I kept my 360 so I can still play the old games.

Is that hard to understand why that was bad for Microsoft ?

Now. there is new hardware coming out in next year, Nx, Scorpeo and Neo. Neo will play Ps4 games just better, it will have the same store front, all the digital games I have I can continue to play on the better hardware with my same friends list and same digital content.., same saves in the cloud, need I go on ?

Sony has more chance of keeping me in their ecosystem. If it was a clean slate and new hardware altogether, Ps5 games and Xb2 games, I would judge the hardware and might move again. Forwards and backwards compatibility keeps consumers. Its not a hard concept.

Now, from the devloper perspective, they make a game for 60 million Ps4's - thats a nice market. They dont care if they are Ps4 or Neo, they can add some AA and AF for the Neo, same code, same API's. its a nice consumer base. Good business.

Now take Ps5, if it comes out and sells only 5 million in first year, who will make games for it ? RISK, every reset is a RISK until you get a large install base. Again its an easy concept.

The negative side is the few people who are upset that someone has a better console than them, but as everybody is doing it, and PC has always done it, they will accept it like everything else in life where someone pays more for something better.

You can google square enix or take 2 or other developers who actually slowed down going for this gen because of the hard reset and their worry about next gen market size. Games being held back is not what I would call 'good'................................

Well, Xbox one run 360 titles (and probably Scorpio). So your 360 ecosystem last Gen didn't prevent you from fresh start again this Gen.
 

geordiemp

Member
and mS got a lot of Ps2 players going into 7th gen with 360. that's just all a matter of marketing and pricing though. what's it got to do with iterative consoles?

Can you not appreciate that Neo is not a hard reset, a hard reset is starting your playerbase at ZERO.

Ps4 / Neo will have 60 + million users, that is not a hard reset, it maintains their market lead.

ps5 will start at zero. Nothing, Nada.

If you cant see how 60 million consumers is stronger than starting at zero....Its hard work mate, I give up.

Well, Xbox one run 360 titles (and probably Scorpio). So your 360 ecosystem last Gen didn't prevent you from fresh start again this Gen.

The BC was a surprise....At launch do you think 360 defectors would of believed all 360 games would run flawless on different architecture - I doubt it lol. How do the 360 games run by the way ?
 

The1Ski

Member
"Sit along side and compliment..."

How and why? I have a PS4 and if I upgraded to a Neo, I really don't see myself keeping the ps4.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Do you guys expect MS, and Sony to turn Xbox/PS into a platform, like iOS? Where you can play all your purchased content on all future devices?

Yes, I do. This is the only way that this "new console every 3-4 years" plan will work in my opinion.

Yep. This is the plan, and one of the reasons behind this.

"Sit along side and compliment..."

How and why? I have a PS4 and if I upgraded to a Neo, I really don't see myself keeping the ps4.

Store shelves people, STORE SHELVES in their Playstation Ecosystem.

Not your living room, lol.
 
As a consumer, this is good for me because it gives me an option that I previously never had.
as a consumer, this is the type of option that makes me move away from considering these products. the reaction is different for different consumers.
Can you not appreciate that Neo is not a hard reset,
no I can't appreciate it because I don't like that the industry is moving in this direction. if you couldn't tell already.
a hard reset is starting your playerbase at ZERO.

Ps4 / Neo will have 60 + million users, that is not a hard reset, it maintains their market lead.

ps5 will start at zero. Nothing, Nada.

If you cant see how 60 million consumers is stronger than starting at zero....
what are you even talking about? you're just describing the concept of iterative consoles vs traditional upgrades. yes, all new successors means starting at a userbase of zero, and going up from there, and every generation thus far ends with hundreds of millions of consoles sold...what's your point?
Its hard work mate, I give up.
that's fine. i can continue discussing stuff with you even though we disagree on things, if you want. but i understand if you don't wanna talk anymore.
 
I'm OK with this. Let Sony have some time to prepare whatever they need before they present it. The market right now seems pretty divisive about something like this. Plan your casual approach, game showcase, and marketing plan.

Don't call it the "ultimate experience".
Call it a new "option/update to the PS ecosystem".
 
"Sit along side and compliment..."

How and why? I have a PS4 and if I upgraded to a Neo, I really don't see myself keeping the ps4.

A 2nd PS4 in the home is as close to LAN play as you can get since splitscreen gaming is pretty much dead. I don't see a reason to sell it.
 

joecanada

Member
I thought maybe at first that I misunderstood what you meant when you said hard reset. You meant a successor console, as tradition goes, right?

But anyways, even going with more traditional architecture, I still would've preferred they stick to the cyclical tradition. In that, even if the architecture is the same, the Ps5 would just have much, much greater specs. Same architecture could've just made BC easier.

The benefits, I guess seem mostly to come on the producer's side but the consumer's still seem relatively mixed about the idea. I wish one of these threads had a poll because even though the majority of GAF seems to like the notion of Ps4K and xbone scorpio, there is a sizable minority that doesn't. As for the producer, getting used to new hardware is what it has always been and if it wasn't working then the market would've collapsed; it's been this way and every generation there are hundreds of millions of consoles sold and games that sell tens of millions of units.

Yeah but the platform holders always do get a hold of those companies. That's how this market is. And it works because all their products sell millions of units.

I suppose this is true, so then the producers benefit, but like I was telling the other guy, the consumers don't necessarily benefit, depending on each of their perspectives. The majority seems like they will appreciate it though, but there's a sizable minority that won't, so either way, whatever happens it's going to be a dramatic change in the market. It's gonna change everything.

But even if that is true, how does newer hardware within the same generation fix that problem? It adds to the problem by that logic because it's another product that has to go through this process of selling and either a loss or a time frame of eventually breaking even.


So you think retooling an existing model for more power costs the same as starting from scratch? Because thats what your answer says . I already stated tht i thought they saved money by incremental upgrades.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
The Artisan said:
hardware makers?
Platform holders (who also manufacture the hardware on consoles).
Chip-makers benefit from continuity as well, but with VR that side has plenty of "work" for the next couple of decades anyway.
 
So you think retooling an existing model for more power costs the same as starting from scratch? Because thats what your answer says . I already stated tht i thought they saved money by incremental upgrades.
what i'm saying is it's new hardware, however little different it is from the original, which means another cycle of waiting for costs to even out and profit. all of which is happening with the base models.
Platform holders (who also manufacture the hardware on consoles).
Chip-makers benefit from continuity as well, but with VR that side has plenty of "work" for the next couple of decades anyway.
Oh I see. yeah that's what I was thinking too is that in the end this is a way for them to make more money.

I remember in 2014, the iphone 6 sold 10 million phones in the weekend it released. insane.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
This would not be the first time dev kits have been upgraded. If the original leak was accurate then a second option has been on the table for quite a while, and there's no telling when a final decision would have been made. I don't see enough evidence one way or another to guess what the final specs will be, but Sony does have a history of trying not to underpower their offerings.

Is there an example of a completely different CPU (Jaguar>Zen) being "swapped out" 3 (or 6 if going from the original leak date) months before said system will have games come out? Also much harder/expensive to change CPU being a APU.

Then there is the Andrew House interview yesterday. He wouldn't have done that and said the things he did if Neo wasn't already a lock spec wise outside clock speeds IMO.
 

geordiemp

Member
as a consumer, this is the type of option that makes me move away from considering these products. the reaction is different for different consumers.
no I can't appreciate it because I don't like that the industry is moving in this direction. if you couldn't tell already.what are you even talking about? you're just describing the concept of iterative consoles vs traditional upgrades. yes, all new successors means starting at a userbase of zero, and going up from there, and every generation thus far ends with hundreds of millions of consoles sold...what's your point?that's fine. i can continue discussing stuff with you even though we disagree on things, if you want. but i understand if you don't wanna talk anymore.

Ok, one last try. Please read.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...lled-games-due-to-concerns-over-ps4-xbox-one/

Then go read why Take 2 and some other developers did the same. Its because if Ps4 and xb1 were slow out of the blocks..., they would be making a game in year 1 for say 5 million potential users.

Yes it worked out well, ps4 flew off the shelves...but SOME devs dont want that risk, so they stopped making games or pulled back a bit....as they wanted to stick to the large 360 / ps3 market and a hard reset was too much risk for their investment..

Jim sterling made a video about it as well. You wonder why at start of every gen we get lots of remakes - thats because its too damn risky to bring new IP's to a hard reset new gen. Hitman got delayed, FF15 etc etc because of hard reset.

Evetybody moans about it and says it takes 2 years to get the gen started, well, with iterative consoles we will get more games and less risk for devs. I want this.
 

OsirisBlack

Banned
Yeah for the low cost Neo, but Osiris leak said their was an expensive higher end option available. He even said upgraded CPU and 499 $....So if Osiris had not leaked that upgrade option, then its clear Neo would be just upclocked Jaguar and Polaris and be done.

He has been teasing maybe they take the red pill....hence what could the upgarde be ? Maybe they just slap on a fancy cooler and go more clock...who knows. But for me the other upgrade option could only be zen, its all that is logical if more power was wanted.
right now this appears to be the lower of the two options price point.

This would not be the first time dev kits have been upgraded. If the original leak was accurate then a second option has been on the table for quite a while, and there's no telling when a final decision would have been made. I don't see enough evidence one way or another to guess what the final specs will be, but Sony does have a history of trying not to underpower their offerings.

From more recent information it seems that there have been two options from the start of this thing and one of them is considerably more powerful but would also have a price point above what they feel is acceptable.
 
Tales from your ass.

Of course it's only my opinion, I'm not the CEO of SCE but it's the more precise reason I think they don't show anything.

And since "waiting for more games to be ready" is a not only a clue regarding the reasons for not showing PS4 but Sony's claim I think that my post is not totally from my ass but it's at least from Kaz' ass.

Edit: to be more precise I think that not only they are waiting for more games but they also know that they need these games to be impressive enough to convince people to make the upgrade or go for PS4K directly.
 
Ok, one last try. Please read.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...lled-games-due-to-concerns-over-ps4-xbox-one/

Then go read why Take 2 and some other developers did the same. Its because if Ps4 and xb1 were slow, they would be making a game in year 1 for say 5 million potential users.

Yes it worked out well, ps4 flew off the shelves...but SOME devs dont want that risk, so they stopped making games or pulled back a bit....as they wanted to stick to the large 360 / ps3 market and a hard reset was too much risk for their investment..

Jim sterling made a video about it as well.
Okay, I read it. What exactly are you "trying" to do here bro? What I gained from that article is that there was a scare among devs and pubs but it turned out to be a false alarm. consoles are selling healthily, consistently since the generation started (if we're talking 2013, not 12) and it's an indication that the market would be fine the way it is. and can continue.

there'd be a point, if the scare was real and xbone & Ps4 sorta flopped at launch the way wii u did. but they didn't.
Evetybody moans about it and says it takes 2 years to get the gen started, well, with iterative consoles we will get more games and less risk for devs. I want this.
not everybody. not me. i don't want this. if you do, that's great because it is the reality...but don't expect every single person similar to you (gamers) to have the same exact mindset.
 
I could actually see a situation where they delay Neo to early next year because they can't get a killer app out. I was expecting Horizon to be the flagship launch title for Neo this year but without it it all falls to Gran Turismo I guess.
if it is supposed to be the same platform then why is there supposed to be a launch title to go with it? that doesn't sound necessary. The Ps4K would already have library of 2-3 years worth of games for consumers to choose from when it comes out.
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
Did they update their statement with "wants to wait for games to be ready"?
Does that suggest early 2017 launch?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
i don't want this. if you do, that's great because it is the reality...but don't expect every single person similar to you (gamers) to have the same exact mindset.

Great thing that you do not have to buy what you do not want. Your PS4 is still there playing the same games, with the new benchmark in UC4 and soon to be Horizon/Detroit fidelity.

For those that do want it, they will purchase it. We all win.

I could actually see a situation where they delay Neo to early next year because they can't get a killer app out. I was expecting Horizon to be the flagship launch title for Neo this year but without it it all falls to Gran Turismo I guess.

It is not a new platform.

Did they update their statement with "wants to wait for games to be ready"?
Does that suggest early 2017 launch?

For the first question, no, lol.
 
Great thing that you do not have to buy what you do not want.Your PS4 is still there playing the same games, with the new benchmark in UC4 and soon to be Horizon/Detroit fidelity.

For those that do want it, they will purchase it. We all win.
I want to play my playstation games in the best fidelity possible in the hardware, and that means having to upgrade to the Ps4K which I don't want to do but don't have a choice if I want the best possible experience. I lose.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I want to play my playstation games in the best fidelity possible in the hardware, and that means having to upgrade to the Ps4K which I don't want to do but don't have a choice if I want the best possible experience. I lose.

We all lose by your logic of not wanting it to come out, for the sake of the bigger ice-cream cone.

I do not want a thing, therefore, no-one should have said thing.

Scary train of thought.
 
We all lose by your logic of not wanting it to come out, for the sake of the bigger ice-cream cone.
what are you talking about? it's the reason why I upgraded from Ps3 to 4. the logic there is that it is a successor in the consoles, so I upgraded to get the best possible playstation experience. and i've been enjoying it thus far - up until hearing that it's going to get a semisuccessor of sorts that's neccessary to get the best possible experience, again.
I do not want a thing, therefore, no-one should have said thing.

Scary train of thought.
That's you putting words in my mouth. And this happens literally every single time I come to a thread like this.

I don't care if other people purchase Ps4K. that's their business. the reason I wanted to buy a Ps4 was to get the best possible playstation experience and if I want to keep having it, I have to buy the Ps4K.
 

Calm Mind

Member
If an expected price drop is coming, it will be announced at Gamescom. If what House says is true about the Neo being "high end", I expect it to go for at least $499 USD. Pretty much in line with Sony's pricing of the PSVR.

PS4 (after expected price drop) - $299
PSVR -$399 (minus accessories)
PS4K/Neo - minimum $499

Let it be known that I made the prediction first.
 
We all lose by your logic of not wanting it to come out, for the sake of the bigger ice-cream cone.

I do not want a thing, therefore, no-one should have said thing.

Scary train of thought.


Perfect way to put it. He doesn't want it. So he doesn't want it to come to market at all, which means we don't get it.

Kinda selfish. Like people who want a tv show to be canceled because they don't like it.
 

mejin

Member
what are you talking about? it's the reason why I upgraded from Ps3 to 4. the logic there is that it is a successor in the consoles, so I upgraded to get the best possible playstation experience. and i've been enjoying it thus far - up until hearing that it's going to get a semisuccessor of sorts that's neccessary to get the best possible experience, again.
That's you putting words in my mouth. And this happens literally every single time I come to a thread like this.

I don't care if other people purchase Ps4K. that's there business. the reason I wanted to buy a Ps4 was to get the best possible playstation experience and if I want to keep having it, I have to buy the Ps4K.[/QUOTE]

I'm really happy to not understand this feeling of being a loser you're so attached to.
 

geordiemp

Member
right now this appears to be the lower of the two options price point.

From more recent information it seems that there have been two options from the start of this thing and one of them is considerably more powerful but would also have a price point above what they feel is acceptable.

Thanks for your reply, Its unusual for recent Sony to mis-read the market, Neo will be better but I would think most enthusiast buyers would know that Neo would struggle to run say Witcher 3 at 60 FPS. So why buy it ?

And Neo would be stuck with that for the next 3-4 years. Yuk. Neo will get mind share, but the minute Neo struggles on Digital foundry with a game due to the poor CPU....then MS will move in.

The main point I am making is that Sony should be designing the console to meet a performance level. There is no point in saying hey, we can do 1080 and 50 FPS on Witcher 3, come buy the Neo. That performance is a fail and worthless.

The next hardware iteration I buy will be able to do 60 FPS for every game at 1080p, otherwise I will stick with my Ps4. If Sony cannot see that there is no hope.

Think I will cancel my PSVR as well, wait for Scorpio and Occulus. Potential poor frame rate really bugs me.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Perfect way to put it. He doesn't want it. So he doesn't want it to come to market at all, which means we don't get it.

Kinda selfish. Like people who want a tv show to be canceled because they don't like it.

Or games to fail because they are not on the platform, or a fan of the IP.

It is an insecure mentality.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
That's you putting words in my mouth. And this happens literally every single time I come to a thread like this.

Your words are your words. You are the one typing them.

If you do not want said thing, then do bot buy it. If you are against in coming out, that is between you and only you at this point you have established. You do not need to have mental gymnastics of market trends, and misunderstanding 'hard resets' to try and justify it not coming out for all.

If it lies only within you, and if you do not care if others will buy it, why are you trying so hard to disprove why this should come out for everyone else?
 
Perfect way to put it. He doesn't want it. So he doesn't want it to come to market at all, which means we don't get it.

Kinda selfish. Like people who want a tv show to be canceled because they don't like it.
Not at all. And I'll speak for myself.

I don't care if other people want to buy the Ps4K. That has no bearing on the decisions I make as a gamer. When I bought my Ps4, I was thinking of what I wanted for myself. If that counts as selfish, well then what the hell was your train of thought the last time you bought a console?
It is an insecure mentality.
Do you really need to make this personal?
 
Your words are your words. You are the one typing them.
Okay, well where did you see me type those exact words? that I don't want anyone to enjoy the Ps4K because I don't like this notion, verbatim?

If you do not want said thing, then do bot buy it.
like I told you before, I want to play my playstation games on the best hardware there is. it's why I upgraded from Ps3 to Ps4. If I want to continue to do this, I have to buy the Ps4K which I'm not fond of.
If you are against in coming out, that is between you and only you at this point you have established. You do not need to have mental gymnastics of market trends, and misunderstanding 'hard resets' to try and justify it not coming out for all.
my justification is that consoles have been selling extremely well, dispelling any fears that the market was dying.

If it lies only within you, and if you do not care if others will buy it, why are you trying so hard to disprove why this should come out for everyone else?
where are you seeing me do that? I've been speaking only for myself, and for the likeminded. I always have been. And I even said several times in several different similar threads, more power to the people who want this - but don't be inconsiderate to those who don't.

EDIT: sorry for double post
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Not at all. And I'll speak for myself.

I don't care if other people want to buy the Ps4K. That has no bearing on the decisions I make as a gamer. When I bought my Ps4, I was thinking of what I wanted for myself. If that counts as selfish, well then what the hell was your train of thought the last time you bought a console?

Do you really need to make this personal?

Not making it personal at all. In most cases, the fact remains, when a person wants something to fail or not exist at all, because they do not like said thing that others may find enjoyment, that is either narcissistic or insecure. Just ignore said thing like it does not exist, and you need not worry. My comment was about people wanting games to fail, nothing to do with you, just adding to the conversation in parallels.

You seem to lack self control of looking away from it, due to the mental desire of having the best thing out in said ecosystem. That is within you, and only you.

Again, not personal at all, just blanket statements. Your dissonance is taking it personal.
 

mejin

Member
well you don't know me, and you're not obligated to empathize. but you also don't have to be rude.

sorry. I didn't mean to offend you, but I really am happy with my PS4 here. So, with all the announcements I can't understand why it's so bad another PS4 arrive if this is an opportunity to have even more years of support for this platform.
 

BruceCLea

Banned
Bummed this is missing E3 but I guess it makes sense because the focus is all about the games. It's all kinds of interesting to see what MS will do besides the Slim announcement. Will they go public about Scorpio too?
 

geordiemp

Member
At the Jaguar/36CU specs I'll pass at $499/£400+. Sony would be crazy if they go down this route for me.

Yup I agree mate, if I dont believe Neo could run Witcher 30 at 60 FPS locked without sweating I will stick with my ps4. Its pointless. 4 / 5 / 6 TF who cares if the console struggles with frame rate.

If Scorpio comes out with \zen and can run all games at 1080p60 and is a beast, it will get the console hardcore - and guess what, they spend most on games as well.

Price point acceptable is not good if performance is un-acceptable.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
PS4 isn't that big to begin with. They could reduce weight by trimming the PSU and heat sink materials, while still keeping current shell dimensions.

Of course they will move to 14nm as soon as the process is ready for volume production. Neo will be the premium product => higher price, better margin, but lower volume. Regular PS4 will still need to be as cost-effective as it can be. Staying on an outdated process would go against that.

sure, but I thought one of the reasons given for the original idea of Neo was that AMD went 'it'll cost a ton to die shrink that old APU, it'd be cheaper to give you a more powerful one'.
 
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