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Derek Jeter writes article about Ichiro Suzuki: "More Than 3,000"
- Thread starter Joe
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I can't argue with those three but no Hank Aaron?
It's 3-4 seconds of running what 2-3 times a night? That doesn't strike me as "I need to save some energy for the playoffs". Should they dog it on fly balls and let some drop then too? It doesn't strike me as something you should worry about getting injured on, there's no sliding or collision.
Ninja Scooter
Member
You are over simplifying it by saying it's simply about effort. Most MLB players do "hustle". Ichiro's swing was taylor made to allow him to get a head start to first base (and he sacrificed power to do it). It's unreasonable to ask every player to do the same thing. It's like asking every NBA player to take and make 30 foot threes since Steph Curry makes it look so easy.
I wouldn't put bonds ahead of Ruth. but yeah. you got my point. rose and ichiro were good. but largely slap hitters.
I read this really interesting piece from The Ringer about how Ichiro probably could've been a slugger, put up more homers if he wanted to. But it was more efficient for him to swing safe and hit more reliably. Paints a picture of dude who's there to do work.
https://theringer.com/should-ichiro-have-hit-homers-c96633a61262#.klbaitvq8
https://theringer.com/should-ichiro-have-hit-homers-c96633a61262#.klbaitvq8
disappeared
Banned
I was in Japan when he was traded over. The host-family I was living with went absolutely apeshit over it. Everybody loved the guy. We'd always get highlights of the game on the news the following day.
the story that ichiro would have hit 40 homers if "he wanted to" has always been funny. and management should have been fired for not getting him to change his approach. homers > singles.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I feel like the "Ichiro could hit Homeruns if he wanted to!" thing that you heard early in his career and that has sort of taken on this mythological life of its own is sort of over blown. Like could he have done it? Sure, maybe, but he would have had to change his entire approach and swing. It's not he would have just added 20 hrs a year to his existing numbers. Some other aspects of his game (some of the ones he was famous for, and effective at) would have suffered for it. You could probably play that kind of "what if" game with a lot of great players. Barry Bonds could have probably hit 100 Homeruns in a season if he swung at more stuff outside of his zone rather than using his superior batting eye to wait for his perfect pitch or take a walk.
Yeah but then his OBP would have only been in the .400's
Affeinvasion
Member
Ichiro is my favorite player of all time. I'm getting a kick out of watching Altuve right now too.
Frozenprince
Banned
There are players who pull leg muscles every year trying to beat out grounders they beat maybe 1/10 times.
It's not worth it.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Nah, you're right without bias. .338 lifetime BA. 8x NL batting titles. 5 x GG.
yes.
baseball reference breaks down runs created per game if all 27 outs were made by the same player.
they arent close....
in 2004, if bonds hit in all 9 spots of the lineup, the team would score 22.0 runs per game.
in 2004, if ichiro hit inall 9 spots of thelineup, the team would score 7.9 per game.
both runs per game represent their best seasons.
for their career 9 lineup spots occupied by bonds averaged 10.6 per game...ichiro is at 5.7
How much of that is Bonds having 2000 more career walks?
Some of that is his eye(he always had good walk numbers), but his walks and OBP his last 8 seasons or so were insane.
Not if you counted Rose's minor league hits, which is only fair.
This is literally the thesis of the article.
well. yeah. its all based on their respective numbers. Bonds was better in every facet on baseball (defense, on the bases, at the plate, etc). ichiro was a great singles hitter.
Frozenprince
Banned
I disagree that Bonds was better defensively.
Bonds 0 200-hit seasons.....lmao gtfo.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
Yeah, Tony Gwynn was a monster.
you can disagree. but at the beginning of his career bonds was a much better fielder than ichiro was in his prime. His defensive war is also 2 wins higher despite being a DH in left for the last decade of his career.
Ted Williams didn't have any either.
It's a lot easier to get 200 hits when you lead off. When you are talking number of hits in a season, the thing needed most is at bats.
Ichiro had 250 more at bats in his 262 hit season then Williams in his .406 season.
Even if you go plate appearances, it's a 150 difference.
Ninja Scooter
Member
You gonna bring up RBI totals next?
It's also easier when you don't have pitchers intentionally walking you as much as they can because they are absolutely afraid of pitching to you.
Dont get me wrong, Ichiro is cool and has had a great career, but Bonds is easily top 5 all time and shouldn't be compared to mortals.
RBIs are a reflection of how good the people batting before you are...lol.
Should we talk about rings then....? lol
that matters even less than RBI. arod would have still be an all time great if he didnt win in 2009.
King Tubby
Member
Believe it or not, being a great hitter is about more than just getting hits.
I think you're missing the point of that post...
Go back and read.
Frozenprince
Banned
¯\_(ツ
_/¯I watched both in their primes, Ichiro was better in right than Bonds was in center and left. Better range, could play the ball better and had a better arm.
Bonds did get the ball in front of him very well I'll give him that all day though.
My husband loves Ichiro. We have a ball from Ichiro, that he threw to me while he was practicing before a game. He's kind enough to throw balls out to fans before games and skilled enough that he literally threw the ball straight into my hands (so even clumsy and uncoordinated me could not miss it). I'm excited for him to get his 3,000 hits.
Ninja Scooter
Member
They are just as meaningless as using raw hits numbers to determine who is a better hitter. If Ichiro went 2-4 at the plate with two singles, but Barry Bonds went 1-2 with a homerun and two walks, who had the better, more productive day?
Frozenprince
Banned
Barry Bonds was 43 years old and put up the 6th best offensive season in baseball while playing in the outfield every day before he got blackballed.
Rose started playing in MLB 6 years earlier then Ichiro. Who knows what would have happened health wise but it's fair to say Ichiro would have at least had a chance to pass Rose if he started at 21 too.
Ur so right, Bonds aint got shit on Juan Pierre!!!1
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Just imagine what he would have done if he wasn't fat AF.
Finally!
Rock And Roll
Member
Man I thought that ball was going to leave the park. Looked and sounded good off the bat. Congratulations to Ichiro! I think he's still got a lot of baseball left in him.
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