jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
One of the things we really like about the method was are using is that it provides AA.
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Inside Playstation 4 Pro: How sony made the first 4k games console
- Thread starter PackAPunchedMick
- Start date
CaptainSmirnov
Member
Downloading the provided screenshots and seeing them up on a tv at typical viewing distance, Infamous looks pretty good, convincing, but doesn't look native. Days gone and Horizon look stunning, they practically look native 4K from ~8ft away on a 55 incher.
Edit: actually Infamous looks pretty crisp too.
Edit: actually Infamous looks pretty crisp too.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
If you read the article Cerny implies that they tried it and it didn't work out very well.
Which sort of AA is possible with multiple precision rendertargets these days?
Wasn't this a problem in past?
Just use your account on both consoles
That's what I was hoping for, thanks.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
It is a $150 upgrade for me. Of course I sold my PS4 mine long ago before the prices tanked.
Subterranean
Member
Seems like this will be a worthy upgrade for my new found love that is PSVR. Consider it bought Cerny.
Omnistalgic
Member
I didn't understand most of it...but it laymens terms, here's what I got.
- Pro is a bigger jump than it's initial 4.2 TF suggest because of custom hardware
- lots of custom hardware designs in the Pro and some from pretty current GPU tech
- will definitely benefit HDTV across all resolutions and PSVR
- Cerny is a smartie-pants
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- Pro is a bigger jump than it's initial 4.2 TF suggest because of custom hardware
- lots of custom hardware designs in the Pro and some from pretty current GPU tech
- will definitely benefit HDTV across all resolutions and PSVR
- Cerny is a smartie-pants
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ricen-beans
Member
And another quote about how native 4K doesn't matter all that much when the Pro gets "close enough".
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Of course, I'm talking purely about rendering natively in 4K.
tiredheadcrab
Member
So like since this system can hit 8.4 teraflops, is it already on par with Scorpio?
longdi
Banned
It is! And Its only 399!
Thats why i am a supporter of this strategy. Your iterative console dont have to blur the lines of a generation, you do it this way. Imo this is a win win situation for all!
Cnet even thinks existing ps4 owner is worth the upgrade to pro!
SunDimension24
Member
This part caught my eye:
"Because the PS4 Pro won't offer faster game load times (according to Cerny)"
What does the author and Cerny mean by that?
thelastword
Banned
Except that the Pro has quite a number of patches deployed already for old games. Games as old as Mordor for free and you can be sure more devs will improve their older titles on their down time between current projects. So the number of older vanilla titles getting Pro patches will increase significantly by the new year. Especially after all the holiday titles ship.
Absolutely, it's insane how simple Sony has made it for devs too. Use the power to get your 900p titles to 1080p as a base and use geometry rendering to boost to 4k. Easiest method, one man can work on said titles and get a good return in a few days. Titles like AC Unity, BF4, Watch Dogs, NHL, Syndicate etc... can all see a huge improvement in IQ and framerate. 1080p users would probably get the biggest upgrade in IQ with supersampling as 1080p textures and certain effects will look best there over the faux 4k mode for 4k monitor users.
I agree, but I just don't want to imagine what type of reactions we will get if it is.....but surely that's impossible for a late 2017 console tbh. It would be laughable for sure.
Infamous may be using Geometry rendering to 4k, hence why the textures are not enhanced over the 1080p PS4 version. Some effects won't be enhanced either. The biggest draw is the clarity and sharpness of the image at 4k over 1080p and also the improved framerate. 1080p users will no doubt benefit most here imo. Textures suited for 1080p, better IQ and better framerate.
Only that there are no 1080p HDR sets, it would be a nice option, but I think the 4x resolution has huge benefits and it will wow too.....Bonkers said:
Here's the thing, the CG quality AA you're looking for is very possible with the PS4.Pro, but you will still need to render at 4k and downsample to 1080p to achieve that. So rendering in 4k is still not a waste of resources for what you want. I think the cleanest looking/highest detailed game may very well be a checkerboarded game that saves performance over a native render using SAA and TAA whilst checkerboarding it 's way to 4k and then downsampling to 1080p. It would mean that virtually all jaggies would be gone with some pretty good graphical presets to maintain high detail over medium to low presets.Bonkers said:
My biggest takeaway is the ID buffer, what a genius idea. I think this will help developers give us some really nice IQ on the PS4.Pro especially outside of downsampling. I will say that the IQ on checkerboarded titles (primarily) AA will be vastly improved over the vanilla PS4 titles we have seen. And that saying something with the likes superbly anti-aliased titles like; UC4, ISS/FL, 1886 and Sniper Elite 3, Primal etc.....
You should also be aware that there are many native 4k games coming to the Pro or will be patched in. They're not basic looking titles either. NBA 2k17, PES, TLOUR....And I'm pretty sure SF5 could hit native 4k on the Pro along with so many other titles.
The boost to the PS4.Pro is much larger than the boost to the XB1s. You could gain massive boosts in framerate from the GPU alone notwithstanding much less stutter with the CPU boost. Some of these titles are supposedly 60fps but they fall so often to 40fps and at times in the mid 30's, that it would definitely impact vanilla players in contest.I don think so, or very little if anything. The game is suppose to run at 60, the hardware just struggles with it. So an additional 5-10 fps to keep it consistent shouldn't really give a huge advantage. You are just using the extra power to run the game at the framerate its suppose to. If you were to go from 30 to 60 in a multiplayer game I would agree its a big advantage.
On PC some are probably playing at 30 fps, some at 120. That is a huge advantage.
Netflix, YouTube, 4k bluray?
It can output 4K, no other current console does.
Look at BF Hardline on certain maps, it falls into the 30's mostly when there's heavy alpha on screen, explosions etc...I think on many games it will change things too much and set vanilla users at a disadvantage. I think the Pro hardware is definitely capable of improving framerate of upwards of 20-30fps in some titles over vanilla. Tbh, even more than that if all we're doing is allowing the new hardware to run vanilla games as fast as possible. Remember BF4, Hardline would be running at 900p on Pro hardware with no preset improvement or resolution enhancements, just the vanilla game gone wild on better hardware.........So yes, running hardline at 900p on an Rx 480 is going to give you close to 150-200fps most of the time at non-ultra/console presets.
The biggest takeaway from 16 bit floating points is how beneficial I forsee it being for VR. It will be fit perfectly into the framerate boost that VR requires, perhaps more titles can now aim for 120fps instead of 90 or 60 boosted and also give PSVR games much more legroom for better AA and reduced blurriness on titles.
Sniffynose
Member
Yup this was what I was hoping for as well, but pff I am really not seeing the benefit to those "700+" games from the PS4 library if they aren't at very least allowed to run at the marginal cpu increase to help smooth out gameplay.
For a system aiming at keeping people from going to PCs it seems ass-backwards with how adding better components and then artificially limiting them is a good idea. Why not give us an option in the settings to run full speed or limited speed?
I'm not sure it's worth a damn now for current PS4 owners with a library of older games that could use a slight performance boost.
If anything this makes going full PC seem MORE attractive
Apparently FP16 and INT16 support can help a lot.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/nvidia-pascal-announcement.57763/page-95#post-1933199
demigod
Member
I never did! Man so many people must be eating crow.
pixelation
Member
Hats off to you good sir... so how does it compare to the Scorpio if i may kindly ask?
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
From where did you get this? Which article?
Also it is only for the additional rear USB?
StrongBlackVine
Banned
No that won't happen. Both versions will have the same target framerate, but the Pro version should stay a lot closer to that target.
Sad Affleck
Member
I didn't understand half the things he was saying but Mark Cerny knows his shit. Sony is lucky to have such an intelligent man designing its hardware.
Gaiaknight
Member
it just means in terms of multiplayer games if the regular version is 30fps the pro version will need to be 30fps to not give an advantage but both games have to target the same framerate that doesnt rule out the pro version being a more solid framerate over the regular version.
That's fine.
But others are saying the frame drops on PS4 should remain on the pro to prevent an advantage. That's just bad.
Good. That's all I am asking for.
Saberus
Member
Off the official FAQ
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/09/08/ps4-pro-the-ultimate-faq/
((Outside of higher gaming performance, 4K TV features, and support for 4K video streaming, are there any other benefits to PS4 Pro?
Yes. PS4 Pro will come standard with a 1TB HDD, faster Wi-Fi (IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac), and a third USB 3.1 Gen.1 port on the rear of the unit. PS4 Pros more powerful hardware can also benefit PlayStation VR games, enhance streaming features such as Share Play and Remote Play, and enable higher resolution output for media captured using the Share button.
In most other ways, PS4 Pro will be very similar to the standard PS4. This includes the user interface and functionality.))
Bl@de
Member
Yeah I don't see why clockspeeds should add incompatibility if you leave the game capped at 30. The games should just run at a locked 30 with GPU having spare power (so it runs cooler and quieter). Even if game logic is tied to fps. Framedrops on the original PS4 aren't planned after all :/
Jesus, the aliasing in those screenshots is insane. I wouldn't be surprised if 1080p turns out to be the preferred setting for pristine image quality (even for those of us with 4K TVs).
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Nice. USB 3.1 is faster but it is on the back which is not practical if you want to use USB stick or external HDD.
1s is what, 5% more frames over std. No big deal.
Pro could be a very large jump over std. 30->60 will break some games, so then it comes down to limiting it. How much do you limit it? What about multiplayer? It's easier and safer to leave it as it is and get devs to patch.
PC games have a wide range of hardware to start with. Some PC games will be played on systems worse than consoles, some better, so you have to take all into account day1. Consoles are fixed and the pre summer 2016 APIs didn't take scalable hardware into account.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Honestly I'm not too worried. But would it be possible for Sony to give a way for developers to emulate a higher clockspeed for the CPU so they can take advantage of just that for a more consistent fps?
Kinda just give enough like the Xbox S does for games running on it. A lazy patch it they prefer.
Kinda just give enough like the Xbox S does for games running on it. A lazy patch it they prefer.
Saberus
Member
I agree about the USB stick, but I'm actually happy for external hard drive, will look cleaner without the cable sticking out the front.
Curious why 3200x1800 is being used in lots of games before the upscaling/uprendering/reconstruction? That's quite a jump from 1080p and a fair amount more pixels than '1080p X 2' which would have been my guess based on the performance increase. Add in the additional processing to do the checkerboard stuff and is there a risk that pro may perform worse than OG PS4 in some situations?
Fixed function primitive ID buffer on ROPs was really big news, will certainly be interesting all the ways developers will use it for. (Should be useful on many ways, not just TAA.)
As Cerny said the checkerboard uses half the target resolution/pixel render target.
So if developers say they use 1800p and checkerboard, it should mean that they use 1600x1800 buffer for checkerboard. (1600x900 2xMSAA buffer, both sub-samples shaded..)
Then upscale the completed 3200x1800 buffer to 4k output.
1800p used for source for reconstruction would give quite incredible quality though.
3200x1800 (2xMSAA) + checkerboard would give 6400x3600.
Shane89
Member
not that. there is a dedicated CPU for that, and ram usage shouldn't be really high for 2 background recording apps.
We don't have Scorpio full specs so we can't compare them yet
Caayn
Member
I don't get why people talk about two GPUs or even a mirrored set-up. When Cerny only uses the word mirror to described doubling the GPU cores. The GPU in the Pro is exactly twice the amount of cores as the original in the PS4. Hence mirroring itself.
Having two GPUs in the Pro would be a gigantic waste of resources, both production wise (not just the second/mirror GPU itself but the extra buses as well for example.) and developing wise.
They're literally turning off half of the cores to preserve compatibility.
Having two GPUs in the Pro would be a gigantic waste of resources, both production wise (not just the second/mirror GPU itself but the extra buses as well for example.) and developing wise.
Brad Grenz
Member
Some seem to target 60fps and use 1800p like devs have used 900p on the regular PS4.
ShadowRunner
Member
It will be 6tf at 32bit for certain. Wether or not it has 12tf at 16bit remains to be seen, but probable
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
That was a pretty good article, IMO it seemed to have addressed almost all of the major issues that people have with the PS4 Pro:
End of console cycles
No benefits for 1080p users
Not powerful enough for 4K etc
For 399 this is a hell of a nice upgrade.
End of console cycles
No benefits for 1080p users
Not powerful enough for 4K etc
For 399 this is a hell of a nice upgrade.
Lagspike_exe
Member
For $399, with all the constraints in check, this is as good as it gets. Cerny knows his stuff.
Rice-Eater
Member
It was all over my head but the parts that I did understand sounded pretty good. And that's good enough for me. I never though thing was going to do native 4k, I just needed to know that it would looked good enough on a 4k TV. I know Modern Warfare Remaster is getting some kind of support so I just need for Capcom to announce it for SFV as well and I'm good. Neither seem really graphic intensive so they might be native 4k. If not then at least 2160p checkerboard instead of 1800p I assume.
boredandlazy
Member
Sounds very balanced.