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Capcom wants to grow Monster Hunter in West, feels handhelds are limiting sales there

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R

redcrayon

Member
Ridley327 said:
I could understand dropping the timer as it's not really a factor outside of the super massive gimmick monsters, but I cannot imagine a single monster in the game taking anyone 50 minutes on their own unless they're being willfully ignorant of how gear progression works and cannot grasp the basic gameplay fundamentals. I know I'm biased since I'm a series-long vet, but people that can't put away even a basic wyvern in 50 minutes should not be playing the series at all: it is so not for them.
Click to expand...
The only time I've run into the time limit is when facing multiple G-rank monsters, online and solo. I don't really think the time limit means anything, as it's either completely redundant in multiplayer where four players is easy mode, or a bit annoying as an auto-fail mechanic when you've been fighting for nearly an hour in single player. If you can survive that long against a series of monsters without carting three times, it feels a bit rubbish to have the time limit be what fails the quest rather than getting eaten.

I suppose it exists to stop players cheating their way through a tough quest by running back to camp to sleep each time they get hit, so it's encouraging 'learn to do it right' over trading hits.
 
P

pretty done

Member
DrROBschiz said:
I dont understand why a moneyhat would be neccesary given the global install base but I agree that Switch support is basically guaranteed
Click to expand...

It's weird/funny how people vehemently denied Nintendo moneyhatting the series to stay exclusive for years, and now here we are without an announcement of a game yet and Sony are the moneyhatters. Monster Hunter threads on GAF never disappoint.
 
Hellraider

Hellraider

Member
DrROBschiz said:
I dont understand why a moneyhat would be neccesary given the global install base but I agree that Switch support is basically guaranteed
Click to expand...

Just like when the series jumped from PSP-3DS the narration is much more intriguing if moneyhats and betrayals are involved.
 
L

le.phat

Member
MacTag said:
From Capcom IR, million sellers only;

Monster Hunter Freedom (PSP) 1,300,000
Monster Hunter Freedom 2 (PSP) 2,400,000
Monster Hunter Freedom Unite (PSP) 3,700,000
Monster Hunter Tri (Wii) 1,900,000
Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (PSP) 4,900,000
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (3DS) 2,600,000
Monster Hunter 4 (3DS) 4,100,000
Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate (3DS) 4,100,000
Monster Hunter Generations (3DS) 4,100,000

Better stop that decline asap, PS4 save us!
Click to expand...

4 releases on 3DS, you're only making a stronger case for Capcom to start looking into new markets with that handheld in the eve of it's lifetime.
 
S

Sammy Samusu

Member
qtes
Click to expand...

aFGaema.gif
 
V

Vyse The Legend

Member
DrROBschiz said:
I dont understand why a moneyhat would be neccesary given the global install base but I agree that Switch support is basically guaranteed
Click to expand...

To clarify, a moneyhat would be to make it PS4 only. And, a moneyhat would be necessary in that regard, because of my last post: potential growth (being console only to TRY and tap into the West installbase) vs. guaranteed success (ensuring the Japanese market has a handheld version available).
 
S

sanstesy

Member
Nirolak said:
So, let me divorce my analysis from the 4chan rumor for a second.

Capcom, in the last five years, has had the following Monster Hunter product lines:
- Monster Hunter Mainline: Traditional Monster Hunter game on a handheld.
- Monster Hunter Generations/Portable: Traditional Monster Hunter game on a handheld that fills in the gap between mainline entries.
- Monster Hunter Frontier: MMO-ized version of Monster Hunter run as a service for Japan.
- Monster Hunter Online: MMO-ized version of Monster Hunter run as a service for the rest of Asia.
- Monster Hunter Explore: Casualized version of a traditional Monster Hunter game.
- Monster Hunter Stories: Turn based RPG focused at younger children.
- Monster Hunter Diary: Poka Poka Airou Village: Village management.
- Otomo Drop Monster Hunter Stories: Match 3 mobile game.

I think if Capcom came out and announced that - given the growing success of the brand overseas - they were making a new Monster Hunter spin-off targeted at the West for PS4/XB1/PC/Maybe Switch, and that the main differences between it and the traditional games is that it changed aspects the West didn't like in favor of aspects that are more popular in that market, it would not be a very surprising announcement. In fact, this is actually what you would expect a company to do when they have so many different product lines in a single brand and seem interested in making even more.

What I think really trips people up is that the 4chan rumor stats they're doing this with the next mainline Monster Hunter game, and then having a separate Portable line for Switch. Given the West is not the main market for the series, you would expect the Western product to be the spin-off instead. Once we get past that though, I really don't think this is something that would be weird or bizarre assuming we view Capcom as a company that can still afford to make HD console titles.
Click to expand...

If they seriously want to make Monster Hunter big in the west, they can't let this be seen as a spin-off title, so it makes complete sense. And it'll probably be deemed "the most gameplay-advanced, graphically ambitious and refined Monster Hunter yet"; basically the premiere Monster Hunter experience and I don't see why they would then present it as a spin-off. If it's really that open-world AAA hunting action-adventure game that goes after the western audience it will be made a mainline title.

Sammy Samusu said:
aFGaema.gif
Click to expand...

;_;
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
Look I get the the 4 chan rumor and these Capcom comments do kind of slightly line up but I would suggest dismissing them for now guys

I wont deny that this topic is intriguing to say the least but there is still so little to go on outside the bullet points outlined in the OP
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Oregano said:
Can't go on 4chan at work. Would you be kind enough to summarise?
Click to expand...

4Chan summary style!

>MH5 moneyhatted by Sony, leaked to Nintendo, problems
>sales of MHX way higher than expected
>panic inside Capcom
>MHP for Switch now main project, XX on Switch to prepare the base
>SFV failure scaring Capcom as well
>MH5 open world, suffering from identity crisis
>action fights, qtes
>streamlined weapons, not many complicated ones for now
>moving away from gathering, preparation
>online mp, for PC as well
>MHP with environments like leaps and mountains
>cross-like gameplay, online and local mp
 
G

georly

Member
Nirolak said:
So, let me divorce my analysis from the 4chan rumor for a second.

Capcom, in the last five years, has had the following Monster Hunter product lines:
- Monster Hunter Mainline: Traditional Monster Hunter game on a handheld.
- Monster Hunter Generations/Portable: Traditional Monster Hunter game on a handheld that fills in the gap between mainline entries.
- Monster Hunter Frontier: MMO-ized version of Monster Hunter run as a service for Japan.
- Monster Hunter Online: MMO-ized version of Monster Hunter run as a service for the rest of Asia.
- Monster Hunter Explore: Casualized version of a traditional Monster Hunter game.
- Monster Hunter Stories: Turn based RPG focused at younger children.
- Monster Hunter Diary: Poka Poka Airou Village: Village management.
- Otomo Drop Monster Hunter Stories: Match 3 mobile game.

I think if Capcom came out and announced that - given the growing success of the brand overseas - they were making a new Monster Hunter spin-off targeted at the West for PS4/XB1/PC/Maybe Switch, and that the main differences between it and the traditional games is that it changed aspects the West didn't like in favor of aspects that are more popular in that market, it would not be a very surprising announcement. In fact, this is actually what you would expect a company to do when they have so many different product lines in a single brand and seem interested in making even more.

What I think really trips people up is that the 4chan rumor stats they're doing this with the next mainline Monster Hunter game, and then having a separate Portable line for Switch. Given the West is not the main market for the series, you would expect the Western product to be the spin-off instead. Once we get past that though, I really don't think this is something that would be weird or bizarre assuming we view Capcom as a company that can still afford to make HD console titles.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't blame them for wanting to expand one of their biggest IP in the west, where games like RE do extremely well for them.

I think most people are just concerned/worried it WON'T be a spin-off, it'll be the next mainline one, and that it'll be changed so much to appeal to western audiences that it'll ruin the old stuff. It may be good on its own, but at the detriment of the franchise and the fans who liked the old way. Like RE4 was to RE1-3. A good change that attracted more fans to the IP but upset fans who liked the original 3.

Let's *hope* it's either just a ps4/pc/switch version of MH5 (to broaden install base), a spin-off that targets western audiences, OR, at worst, that the 'portable/generations' line remain while MH5 does its own crazy thing, keeping both sides of the coin happy.
 
O

Oregano

Member
Mpl90 said:
4Chan summary style!

>MH5 moneyhatted by Sony, leaked to Nintendo, problems
>sales of MHX way higher than expected
>panic inside Capcom
>MHP for Switch now main project, XX on Switch to prepare the base
>SFV failure scaring Capcom as well
>MH5 open world, suffering from identity crisis
>action fights, qtes
>streamlined weapons, not many complicated ones for now
>moving away from gathering, preparation
>online mp, for PC as well
>MHP with environments like leaps and mountains
>cross-like gameplay, online and local mp
Click to expand...

Thanks. That sounds really not much like Monster Hunter.

It all seems so far fetched but it's kind of believable that Capcom would do that considering their recent brand management.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
sanstesy said:
If they seriously want to make Monster Hunter big in the west, they can't let this be seen as a spin-off title, so it makes complete sense. And it'll probably be deemed "the most gameplay-advanced, graphically ambitious and refined Monster Hunter yet"; basically the premiere Monster Hunter experience and I don't see why they would then present it as a spin-off. If it's really that open-world AAA hunting action-adventure game that goes after the western audience it will be made a mainline title.
Click to expand...

Generations is a spin off. It really doesn't matter what they call it or market it as. The franchises fanbase will not care.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
georly said:
Yeah, I don't blame them for wanting to expand one of their biggest IP in the west, where games like RE do extremely well for them.

I think most people are just concerned/worried it WON'T be a spin-off, it'll be the next mainline one, and that it'll be changed so much to appeal to western audiences that it'll ruin the old stuff. It may be good on its own, but at the detriment of the franchise and the fans who liked the old way. Like RE4 was to RE1-3. A good change that attracted more fans to the IP but upset fans who liked the original 3.

Let's *hope* it's either just a ps4/pc/switch version of MH5 (to broaden install base), a spin-off that targets western audiences, OR, at worst, that the 'portable/generations' line remain while MH5 does its own crazy thing, keeping both sides of the coin happy.
Click to expand...

I cant imagine the core mechanics will be destroyed. Even the MMO's still retain the Core Gen 2 mechanics

Hopefully any game going forward will at least be Gen 4 or above
 
M

MacTag

Banned
Psycho_Mantis said:
RE5 massively oversold any effort on the Wii cementing PS360 as the place to be.
KT has had year on year increases due to the reception of their recent titles, many if not all being on PS4. Check their fiscal reports.

At this point its clear you have no real basis on your claims. I've asked for these sales figures that undermine JP third party decision and expectedly you sidestepped. Seems like most of your basis is on your feelings.
Click to expand...
RE5 launched in 2009, by that point things were already set and base building windows were closed. RE5 actually reflects 3rd parties pushing ahead despite market trends, it wasn't a result of market trends deciding where it went. Fortunately it was a case that worked out in the end even if Capcom left money on the table with Wii.

I've looked at KT's results, 75% of their worldwide sales still come from Japan and their only real western success stories this gen are Hyrule Warriors and free DOA5LR downloads. KT's actually a great source for dispelling the recovering lost sales in Asia myth PS4 proponents love to push concerning Japan, given they're one of the few publishers to actually give regional totals (Asia was just over 10% last quarter, beating both NA and EU for the first time).

And I'm not sidestepping but I'm also not wasting my time. You don't need me to tell you DQ Heroes, Tales of Zesteria PS4 and Disgaea 5 all did under 50k their first NPD when we both know you already know that and even argued against it before. Meanwhile you haven't provided any sources from publishers talking about their amazing PS4 specific sales?
 
Eolz

Eolz

Member
Wanna bet that if MH5 ends up Switch only (not saying it will), we'll get the continuation of the moneyhat theory for another 5 years?
 
Y

YAWN

Ask me which Shakespeare novel is best
As long as the series also continues on handheld, I don't have a problem. The more Monster Hunter the better. Can't believe the 4chan rumour has a chance of being true though, I remember all of us commenting on how insane it was in the Double Cross thread. Interesting...
 
S

sanstesy

Member
Gotdatmoney said:
Generations is a spin off. It really doesn't matter what they call it or market it as. The franchises fanbase will not care.
Click to expand...

Yes, for Japan; they don't care because it is a known quantity there. But for a potential new audience in the west it only creates misconceptions.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
Eolz said:
Wanna bet that if MH5 ends up Switch only (not saying it will), we'll get the continuation of the moneyhat theory for another 5 years?
Click to expand...

Its not all just about the moneyhat theory though

Nintendo certainly picked up a few bills in marketing and distribution depending on the region

At the very least a close partnership that retained exclusivity. I wonder how this partnership will change going forward
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
sanstesy said:
If they seriously want to make Monster Hunter big in the west, they can't let this be seen as a spin-off title, so it makes complete sense. And it'll probably be deemed "the most gameplay-advanced, graphically ambitious and refined Monster Hunter yet"; basically the premiere Monster Hunter experience and I don't see why they would then present it as a spin-off. If it's really that open-world AAA hunting action-adventure game that goes after the western audience it will be made a mainline title.
Click to expand...

Proposal:

StarSiege: Tribes, World of Warcraft, Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft, Mario, and Mario Kart had no issues finding success when spinning off from their original products.

That said, I don't think it's impossible they would make the next mainline title a console game. I'm just weighing in on what I think would surprise people a lot less.
 
R

Roldan

Member
If MH is going to the PS4, it will be the first time the series receives a big upgrade on visuals. Not that it's essential, but some assets are there for more than 10 years already lol
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
sanstesy said:
If they seriously want to make Monster Hunter big in the west, they can't let this be seen as a spin-off title, so it makes complete sense. And it'll probably be deemed "the most gameplay-advanced, graphically ambitious and refined Monster Hunter yet"; basically the premiere Monster Hunter experience and I don't see why they would then present it as a spin-off. If it's really that open-world AAA hunting action-adventure game that goes after the western audience it will be made a mainline title.



;_;
Click to expand...

The most obvious problem with this scenario is that an AAA Western-oriented MH, on top of being much more expensive than franchise entries to date, would be far less assured of multimillion-unit sales than a more conventional, Japan-oriented MH5.

And frankly, Dragon's Dogma isn't that far removed from what a Western-oriented AAA open-world MH would be like, and it bombed outside Japan.
 
S

spineduke

Unconfirmed Member
le.phat said:
4 releases on 3DS, you're only making a stronger case for Capcom to start looking into new markets with that handheld in the eve of it's lifetime.
Click to expand...

Looking at this list reminds me a bit of Capcom in the days of it's SF2 release cycle.
 
S

sanstesy

Member
Nirolak said:
Proposal:

StarSiege: Tribes, World of Warcraft, Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft, Mario, and Mario Kart had no issues finding success when spinning off from their original products.

That said, I don't think it's impossible they would make the next mainline title a console game. I'm just weighing in on what I think would surprise people a lot less.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but to me it wouldn't be really a surprise. Especially if Sony is paying the bills, I can easily see them demanding this to be named a mainline title just for bigger marketing potential.
Father_Brain said:
The most obvious problem with this scenario is that an AAA Western-oriented MH, on top of being much more expensive than franchise entries to date, would be far less assured of multimillion-unit sales than a more conventional, Japan-oriented MH5.

And frankly, Dragon's Dogma isn't that far removed from what a Western-oriented AAA open-world MH would be like, and it bombed outside Japan.
Click to expand...

I don't think Capcom works that way. They always try to chase that huge western audience even if they are having good success otherwise. If they see a chance for one of their franchises to get big in the west, no matter how small, I'm 100% sure they will try again and again.
 
M

Mr. Pointy

Member
Oregano said:
Can't go on 4chan at work. Would you be kind enough to summarise?
Click to expand...
You sure? Okay then.

- Sony signed a deal with Capcom last year for MH5 on PS4/PC, specifically excluding Switch. A lot like the SFV contract excludes XBO. Sony paid a lot.
- MH5 is an open-world game aimed at Westerners, with a lot of streamlined gameplay - no timer, no missions, less gathering and prep, more action based, QTEs, less complicated and fewer weapons. 2018.
- Someone at Capcom leaked the deal to Nintendo. Nintendo have been quiet.
- MHX did way better in Japan and the West than Capcom expected, causing a bunch of people at Capcom to panic.
- A bunch of people at Capcom are worried MH5 for PS4 is being rushed out with too little content (monsters, weapons, balance) and will bomb like SFV.
- MH Portable series is getting resurrected for Switch, headed by main MH team, because Capcom don't expect MH5 to do well in Japan. Traditional MH game - new weapons and environmental stuff, some elements from MHX. 2018.
- MHXX is getting a Switch port to set up for Portable.
 
G

georly

Member
DrROBschiz said:
I cant imagine the core mechanics will be destroyed. Even the MMO's still retain the Core Gen 2 mechanics

Hopefully any game going forward will at least be Gen 4 or above
Click to expand...

I imagine most of the core mechanics remaining intact, mainly in terms of combat vs monsters, but I can see them changing up tons of other things. How gear works, gathering, pre-combat prep, and a bunch of other streamlining, that, on paper sounds good, but in reality kinda take away from the charm and the idea that you're 'preparing for a big hunt.'

Making it less monster 'hunter' and more monster 'killer' if that makes sense?
 
D

DrArchon

Member
Roldan said:
If MH is going to the PS4, it will be the first time the series receives a big upgrade on visuals. Not that it's essential, but some assets are there for more than 10 years already lol
Click to expand...

Yeah, if it does go to PS4, then they'll probably drastically cut down on the number of monsters in the game, like they did with Tri. I can see the game having almost no returning monsters except for some flagships like the raths, zinogre, tigrex, etc. There's no way we're going to see a roster of 80+ monsters out of the gate like with MH4 when they can't reuse assets anymore.

It also might mean that any returning monsters get moveset updates to have their animations improved on, which would be fantastic. I never want to see the default "flying wyvern" moveset ever again at this point.
 
M

MacTag

Banned
DrROBschiz said:
They are just setting up for the Future. 3DS is just about done bro. XX is only projected at 2 million (we will see how it actually does)

It makes total sense they would look in Ps4's direction when pushing for global growth
Click to expand...
Yes but the argument was they need to drop 3DS due to continually declining sales on that platform. The reality though is that 3DS has been amazingly consistent sales wise for Monster Hunter.

XX is only projected to do 2m in Japan, but so was X and it ended up doing 3.2m. We'll see how XX goes.
 
N

Nairume

Banned
MacTag said:
Yes but the argument was they need to drop 3DS due to continually declining sales on that platform. The reality though is that 3DS has been amazingly consistent sales wise for Monster Hunter.

XX is only projected to do 2m in Japan, but so was X and it ended up doing 3.2m. We'll see how XX goes.
Click to expand...
I think the other thing to consider is Capcom probably also had lowered expectations for X and XX in part because they are spinoffs and would reasonably expect more out of MH5.
 
LordKasual

LordKasual

Banned
It is, for me anyway.

It's a wonderful game concept that I feel is being held back by the tunnel vision for handhelds.

If they developed a Monster Hunter from the ground up to take advantage of PC/PS4/Xbone, i'd day-one that shit.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
MacTag said:
Yes but the argument was they need to drop 3DS due to continually declining sales on that platform. The reality though is that 3DS has been amazingly consistent sales wise for Monster Hunter.

XX is only projected to do 2m in Japan, but so was X and it ended up doing 3.2m. We'll see how XX goes.
Click to expand...

Itll break 2 million in Japan most likely... Unless something really changes or JP has burnout

It IS strange that its hitting so close to Switch launch.... Not sure what the strategy is there unless Nintendo/Capcom has some sort of Cross gen release in the works

All signs so far seem to be NO outside of the 4 Chan rumors

We are in some bizarre information limbo here guys
 
S

Sammy Samusu

Member
- A bunch of people at Capcom are worried MH5 for PS4 is being rushed out with too little content (monsters, weapons, balance) and will bomb like SFV.
Click to expand...

Anyone familiar with the MH series knows this is indeed a problem, just look at how MH3 turned out. It was a big departure from past MH games, but lacked in terms of content, probably because of development deadlines.
 
N

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
The /v/ rumor seems to have all the ingredients that would specifically piss off the current monhun fanbase so I would take it with a grain of salt.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
sanstesy said:
I don't think Capcom works that way. They always try to chase that huge western audience even if they are having good success otherwise. If they see a chance for one of their franchises to get big in the west, no matter how small, I'm 100% sure they will try again and again.
Click to expand...

They haven't really done anything like that this gen yet, though. If anything, their biggest franchise in the West, RE, has just undergone a major shift away from Western AAA design.

Again, I can't completely rule it out, but the 4chan rumor would have been a lot more plausible 3-5 years ago when Capcom was in its peak Westaboo phase.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
That 4 chan rumor sure is some juicy inside baseball lol

Hard to see it as true but I get that the fires are being stoked by these Capcom comments

I just wish we could get more reliable and stable sources to corroborate ANY details

Japan is like an iron fortress sometimes when it comes to insider info
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
sanstesy said:
Yes, for Japan; they don't care because it is a known quantity there. But for a potential new audience in the west it only creates misconceptions.
Click to expand...

Monster Hunter is a known quantty in the West. 4U shipped a million. Tri did 800k. Pretty sure Generations is on its way to a million. People know what MH is. If they call the PS4 game MHGen2, you think thay would be some huge issues?

That said if they make it mainline it wouldnt matter because spinoff MH doesnt mean low effort. Generations is a spinoff.
 
I

Instro

Member
Mr. Pointy said:
You sure? Okay then.

- Sony signed a deal with Capcom last year for MH5 on PS4/PC, specifically excluding Switch. A lot like the SFV contract excludes XBO. Sony paid a lot.
- MH5 is an open-world game aimed at Westerners, with a lot of streamlined gameplay - no timer, no missions, less gathering and prep, more action based, QTEs, less complicated and fewer weapons. 2018.
- Someone at Capcom leaked the deal to Nintendo. Nintendo have been quiet.
- MHX did way better in Japan and the West than Capcom expected, causing a bunch of people at Capcom to panic.
- A bunch of people at Capcom are worried MH5 for PS4 is being rushed out with too little content (monsters, weapons, balance) and will bomb like SFV.
- MH Portable series is getting resurrected for Switch, headed by main MH team, because Capcom don't expect MH5 to do well in Japan. Traditional MH game - new weapons and environmental stuff, some elements from MHX. 2018.
- MHXX is getting a Switch port to set up for Portable.
Click to expand...

Sounds dumb enough to be true for Capcom lol.
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
Capcom should have both a MH consoles version and handheld version .
Truth is if switch don't really catch on in Japan there in real trouble .
Also if they making a consoles version it can't be half ass like how they did with SFV.
 
D

dragonlife

Member
Gotdatmoney said:
Monster Hunter is a known quantty in the West. 4U shipped a million. Tri did 800k. Pretty sure Generations is on its way to a million. People know what MH is. If they call the PS4 game MHGen2, you think thay would be some huge issues?

That said if they make it mainline it wouldnt matter because spinoff MH doesnt mean low effort.
Click to expand...
Us westerners deserve the best. Spin-offs, no matter how good, don't carry the psychology to ease our minds. Mainline or riot.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
gundamkyoukai said:
Capcom should have both a MH consoles version and handheld version .
Truth is if switch don't really catch on in Japan there in real trouble .
Click to expand...

I really do want the Switch to take off man

Its represents everything I want from a console/handheld in one

Really hard to say how it will do right now
 
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