• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The influx of moderates telling us to tolerate sexism, xenophobia, and racism all day

Status
Not open for further replies.

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I'm sure you and many of us have noticed the sudden shift in the last 24 hours, with many members of this website not only telling POC, LBGT, and women that we should tolerate and be accepting of the right, but pretending that not doing so means that we just wanna stick to an echochamber, are trying to take the moral high ground, are just as bad as the the alt right, and a whole bunch of other logic that anyone with even a semblance of logical thought would see is absolutely ridiculous. The crux of the matter is this:

Why are you targeting this criticism towards minorities, lbgt, and women, why do you feel the need to tell them that they are the issue, not the xenophobia, sexism, and racism? That's it's all just a difference of political opinion, when all three are inherently moral issues that have nothing to do with politics whatsoever since they existed before modern politics. You really can't see how ridiculous that sounds? Who are you to tell people who you can't very clearly can't actually empathize with, how they should feel and act? You're honestly telling people that they should welcome backwards and outdated principles treat the people who'd give them no time of day whatsoever and would rather sling a racial slur, defend a rape, tell them they shouldn't exist or that there's something wrong with them, or kick them out of the country with productive discussion when news:WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR LITERALLY DECADES!! :mad:

MLK had the perfect words to describe this situation:
mlk-cfw.jpg


This statement is more true than ever after last night, as i've been told all day by different users that I should stop overreacting at the fact that half of America actively voted to take my rights away, that I should stop overreacting about shit like this happening near where I live, that I should stop overreacting over being called a nigger on the walk home last night. No, i'm not gonna be a kind arms welcoming gentlemen towards people who'd never do the same for me. And i'm not gonna apologize for that.

So I implore any person who feels the need to tell minorities, LBGT, or women how they should feel, act or behave towards the people who view them as subhuman based on the way they were born, stop it, turn your attention elsewhere and stop acting like us, the victims, are the issue.

EDIT:BEFORE ANYONE KEEPS COMING IN HERE WITH REVISIONIST HISTORY
Because it doesn't work, as this election's shown. As long as the side you want to vilify hold the voting majority you can't win any victories without making inroads with them. Fairness doesn't come into it; only what works and what doesn't.
They weren't even the voting majority, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.

At the end of the day, it boils down to this.

Q: Why would you vote for a man who clearly is racist, has many "issues" with women, (insert 1000 other negative traits).

A: Because he said he'll lower my taxes.


That's pretty much it? Fine. You're not racist. You're not a misogynist. You're not a climate change denier, supporter of sexual assault or believer that LGBT should not have equal rights and what not.

Your're a squeaky clean, lovely person.

But why do I not get to point my finger at you for voting for a man who clearly represents and stands by those things?

Because you only cared about taxes? Or...what?

White supremacists are feeling like they're relevant now. That was BEFORE Trump even won. People WILL now face more racism in America. I've seen the result from Brexit.

RUDY GIULIANNI will likely be Attorney General........in a time where we are trying to sort out the way police treat minorities in America.

Supreme court justices will not be so favourable towards LGBT communities.

Trump can EASILY repeal executive order Obama made to allow immigrants to have genuine work and life prospects instead of hiding and taking exploitative under the table work.


You voted for a person who will do these things. Why can I not criticise you for it?

I just need to accept that you decided to fuck me over as long as you feel a guy who refuses to manufacture his goods in the USA is going to bring jobs back to the USA, because something something MLK wouldn't be getting all uppity like this?

This mindset of "hey, don't you dare look at me like that! I only like what he said about taxes/elites, that doesn't make me a racist, xenophobe, liar, con artist too!" is both confusing and infuriating.

So a lot of people were saying we should try and find compromise, problem is, we've been trying to do that not only for the last 8 years of Presidency but for decades.
NHXp4.gif


Treating us like equals shouldn't be considered a compromise, it should be an inherent thing that people do, treating black people, LBGT people, minorities in general shouldn't be a controversial thing to do.
 
Right on. Just because you're left leading doesn't mean you have to be 'kind and tolerant'. Raise your voice. Call a spade a spade, because the other side is willing to call the rest us any name they want.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Right on. Just because you're left leading doesn't mean you have to be 'kind and tolerant'. Raise your voice. Call a spade a spade, because the other side is willing to call the rest us any name they want.
Exactly.
 
Agree 100%.

However, MLK wouldn't be calling Trump supporters unilaterally racists/bigots, etc.

1. Go vote.
2. Try to understand people different from you, you don't even have to agree.
3. Don't make overly broad, ridiculous generalizations.
4. Go vote.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Agree 100%.

However, MLK wouldn't be calling Trump supporters unilaterally racists/bigots, etc.

1. Go vote.
2. Try to understand people different from you, you don't even have to agree.
3. Don't make overly broad, ridiculous generalizations.
4. Go vote.
He would most definitely agree with Hillary's deplorables statement, you can't support someone like Trump without at least tolerating or passively supporting everything his platform stands for, which again, has nothing to do with politics whatsoever, he's a candidate who won off the backs of hate and fearmongering.
 
He would most definitely agree with Hillary's deplorables statement, you can't support someone like Trump without at least tolerating or passively supporting everything his platform stands for, which again, has nothing to do with politics whatsoever, he's a candidate who won off the backs of hate and fearmongering.

I disagree. I believe you can and people have supported Trump in spite of his questionable views, not because of them. Voting for someone does not mean you support all of their unfortunate tendencies.

The reality is democrats are mostly just talk. 7 million down from 2012 Obama. There's not much more to say.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
He would most definitely agree with Hillary's deplorables statement, you can't support someone like Trump without at least tolerating or passively supporting everything his platform stands for, which again, has nothing to do with politics whatsoever, he's a candidate who won off the backs of hate and fearmongering.

The job of every decent American, especially those from privileged backgrounds, is to fight this hate and clear away the smoke of fear at every opportunity.
 

darkace

Banned
I'm hoping the left learns that when you call a spade a spade that spade doesn't vote for you. Take the moral high ground all you want, but it doesn't win you elections.

To have power to implement policies to make the lives of minorities better off you need to find common cause with people that want to hurt them.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I disagree. I believe you can and people have supported Trump in spite of his questionable views, not because of them. Voting for someone does not mean you support all of their unfortunate tendencies..
No sorry, that's not how it works. And no, i'm not going to try to understand sexism, xenophobia, or racism, I KNOW why these things exist, they're inherently irrational social constructs that are way too ingrained in society. They aren't just "understanding people different from you." They refuse to understand me right off the bat because of my skin color.

The job of every decent American, especially those from privileged backgrounds, is to fight this hate and clear away the smoke of fear at every opportunity.
Exactly, we fight, by raising our voices, because if we do anything else, we'll get shot.
 

Squalor

Junior Member
I'm hoping the left learns that when you call a spade a spade that spade doesn't vote for you. Take the moral high ground all you want, but it doesn't win you elections.

To have power to implement policies to make the lives of minorities better off you need to find common cause with people that want to hurt them.
Obama tried to do that. So did Clinton.

Republicans ruined it.

The low-income, low-education rural voters still went back to Republicans.
 

Enzom21

Member
Agree 100%.

However, MLK wouldn't be calling Trump supporters unilaterally racists/bigots, etc.

1. Go vote.
2. Try to understand people different from you, you don't even have to agree.
3. Don't make overly broad, ridiculous generalizations.
4. Go vote.

How exactly do you know what MLK would?
What is there to understand about a person who hates me because I am black?
I disagree. I believe you can and people have supported Trump in spite of his questionable views, not because of them. Voting for someone does not mean you support all of their unfortunate tendencies.

No sorry, a vote for Trump was a vote for white supremacy.
 

antonz

Member
People are not saying Tolerate Racism, sexism etc. What people are saying is Don't blanket statement everyone. People who voted for a Black Man to be President but opposed Hillary its pretty hard to claim white supremacy at play.
 

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
Because they're not all racists. You can mock the #NotAll____ moniker all you want, but it's the truth.

  • There are people in rural America legitimately left behind by technological advances and the new generation running off to the big cities. This doesn't make them racist.
  • There are well-meaning religious folk that believe in the sanctity of life. This doesn't make them woman-haters.
  • There are uninformed people who genuinely believe Hillary is as corrupt as they get. You can blame the media on this.

Labeling every Trump voter as such is doing to them exactly what racists actually do. You can support filibustering the Republican Congress. You can support protesting Trump's cabinet. Those people are irredeemable. But don't ignore the legitimate grievances of legitimate people. Especially do not paint them all with the broad brush that you yourself despise.
 

Johndoey

Banned
Right on. Just because you're left leading doesn't mean you have to be 'kind and tolerant'. Raise your voice. Call a spade a spade, because the other side is willing to call the rest us any name they want.
I completely agree. I'm not going to pretend every abhorrent viewpoint I come across is legitimate just to appease some bullshit sense of "fairness".

Why do we always have to be the kind passive observers that let every slight go?
 
It's not even that I disagree with you, it's that what you're saying means the Democratic Party loses every national election for the next 20-40 years (basically until whites makes up less than 45% of the population of the country, because there will always be conservative minorities, even if it's a relatively small amount). Do I think that's fair? Of course not. But I don't see another way around it.
 
Yeah seeing that in threads last night was so fucking weird? Why should one tolerate any form of discrimination at any time, especially if it's against them?
 
I'm not saying tolerate it. I'm saying get out of the bubble so better candidates can be selected that can appeal to a broader group of people. Hillary was a terrible candidate.
 

kavanf1

Member
I think the point is that the right are sick and tired of being painted as collectively sexist and racist and bigoted, and it's the left who would do well to recognise that throwing such language at an entire diverse group does not benefit anyone, it just sows divisiveness.

While Trump undoubtedly attracted the racists and the bigots, it was always a mistake to paint every Trump supporter as a racist and bigot, something we saw on here daily. People on GAF regularly went as far as to say they would cut people out of their lives for supporting Trump.

The left polarised the discussion so much that they were left with nothing but an echo chamber where everyone agreed how shit Trump voters were. Trump voters meanwhile, spurred on by their anger at the status quo and resentful of the left's labelling, went to the polls with purpose and drive, and they brought their friends along, while those who voted Hillary did so with no such fanfare.

It's a hard lesson but it seems to be one that's sorely needed - we need to accept that we can't berate and then ignore people just because we don't like what they have to say.
 
Jesus, I've been simmering about this sentiment too. What exactly do you want me to call these people?


Put yourself in the shoes of a black person in America right now. A Muslim person, a Hispanic person. I know you personally won't, but just putting that there for people who are sitting on the fence and maybe we can understand where these SJW POC LBGTQ BBQ ABC type identity politics people are actually coming from for a second.

53% of white woman voted for Trump according to a CNN Exit Poll, Trump won the white male vote 63%. For the record, Trump's figures for blacks, Hispanics and Asian-Americans was 8%, 29% and 29% respectively.

So if you're a person of colour in America today, you just saw a man who opened his campaign up by calling Mexicans rapists and criminals (but some I assume are good) get voted into the White House. You saw a man who questioned the integrity of a sitting judge because he was Hispanic get voted into the White House. A man who mocked a disabled reporter, a man who has been taken to court multiple times for housing discrimination against African Americans, a man who was literally caught on tape saying he'd grab women and kiss them and walk up to them and grab them by the pussy got voted into the White House.

Maybe some of the those white people who voted for Trump honestly believe they aren't racists. They might have black friends, tolerate the existence of the Muslim family three doors down and eat Chinese food on Fridays. But to me, it seems that there's a growing contingent of white people out there now who seem to believe that the only requirement to not be racist in 2016 is that you don't have to call someone a "nigger" in public. Meanwhile, that same person changes the channel when they see yet another news report of a cop shooting an unarmed black man. They rationalize that "Hey, I don't like everything Trump says but change is needed." which to me roughly translates into "Yeah, I don't care if you're scared of Trump, you're Muslim anyways, my needs first." If you want a pat on the back because you have black friends, dated an Asian woman in college and have never told a Muslim to go back to his country to his face, here's your pat on the back. But if you voted Donald Trump, you pretty much just implicitly voted to support all the insulting things he's said about minorities during his campaign. And that makes you a racist. Maybe you're not KKK Bogeyman style racist but still a racist all the same.

Watch this video and tell me that our fears are unjustified and that that man is just some SJW "cuck" who's fear mongering. Then maybe think for a second - a second, the next time you feel offended that some 21 year old transgendered university student says "Kill all cis white males on twitter" and realize that somebody on the other side who said "They're [referring to Mexicans] rapists and they're drug dealers - but some - I assume, are good people." was just elected as the leader of the most powerful country on Earth.

But excuse me, they're the same thing right?
 
They're not bigots, man, they just... completely disregard the struggles of entire people under the long established oppressive traditions of a nation that have been adequately demonstrated and taught time and time again from inception, through several civil rights movements, and continue to this day.

But like, don't blame them for not being aware of any of that! They're just sick of the 'same old politics'. Because you know, minority people are just so f'ing happy with the same old.
 

faisal233

Member
Talks cheap. As a minority I would have been alright with less talk and more electoral success.

I don't care if I need diet racists on my team to succeed, the GOP doesn't talk about their biggest successes, they just implement it.
 

Maebe

Member
It's funny they want to come out now with that rhetoric. There's no defense for it but they are scrambling to defend it despite the entire world being disgusted and neo nazis openly seeing it as inspirational.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I love how it's always minorities who are the ones who have to "bridge the gap" and do the understanding, but the opposite is never expected
Exactly. Fuck that mindset.

It's not even that I disagree with you, it's that what you're saying means the Democratic Party loses every national election for the next 20-40 years (basically until whites makes up less than 45% of the population of the country, because there will always be conservative minorities, even if it's a relatively small amount). Do I think that's fair? Of course not. But I don't see another way around it.
The election last night was incredibly close. Stop being complacent.
 

SunnyVi

Member
I think the problem arises when you start labeling everyone who disagrees with you as homophobic, transphobic, misogynist,racist, etc. There are some issues that are not black and white. I've been shifting more towards the center-left the past few years and its been really eye opening to see how the right and left are so similar in the way they act. Since I'm left leaning I want the left to be the shining example but truthfully its hard to differentiate between the two sides.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Because it doesn't work, as this election's shown. As long as the side you want to vilify hold the voting majority you can't win any victories without making inroads with them. Fairness doesn't come into it; only what works and what doesn't.
 
People aren't telling you to just deal with racists and sexists and bigots. They're telling you to not jump the gun and call people those things just because they don't agree with you.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Because it doesn't work, as this election's shown. As long as the side you want to vilify hold the voting majority you can't win any victories without making inroads with them. Fairness doesn't come into it; only what works and what doesn't.
They weren't even the voting majority, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Agree 100%.

However, MLK wouldn't be calling Trump supporters unilaterally racists/bigots, etc.

1. Go vote.
2. Try to understand people different from you, you don't even have to agree.
3. Don't make overly broad, ridiculous generalizations.
4. Go vote.

What do I need to understand about someone who has no qualms about calling people who look like me "terrorists"?
 
Why do minorities need to teach dumb-fuck, racist white people to not be dumb fucking racists?

You don't have an answer. I know you don't. You don't have an answer because there isn't one.

No one said anything about teaching racists. If you can't be bothered to listen to people who think differently than you then there's nothing to say.

Oh wait, there is one thing:
7 million down vs. 2012 Obama.

(I voted for her, east coast.)
 

Squalor

Junior Member
People aren't telling you to just deal with racists and sexists and bigots. They're telling you to not jump the gun and call people those things just because they don't agree with you.
Yes, they are.
No one said anything about teaching racists. If you can't be bothered to listen to people who think differently than you then there's nothing to say.

Oh wait, there is one thing:
7 million down vs. 2012 Obama.

(I voted for her, east coast.)
Yes, you did. You're telling minorities to "understand" the bigots.

We already understand them. They hate minorities.

We understand the Republicans have disenfranchised them, and they continue to vote Republican. We already know all of these things.
 

Roman

Member
I can understand that in her concession speech (and Obama's) all she could do was to appeal to "heal the wound" and "come together in unity" and such.

However, these appeals ring particularly hollow when the opposing platform practically ran on divisiveness and xenophobia. It cannot be expected of minorities to simply fall in line.
 

LosDaddie

Banned
Libs will never learn why they lost if they continue to label anyone who doesn't tow the line as sexist/racist/bigoted/etc.

The GOP controls more of America than they have in generation. The SCOTUS will now lean 5-4 conservative. And this is directly after a relatively popular Dem president's two terms.

It's time to try a new strategy. I don't know what that strategy is, but it's obvious that blanket labeling of the opposition isn't doing Dems any favors.
 
People are not saying Tolerate Racism, sexism etc. What people are saying is Don't blanket statement everyone. People who voted for a Black Man to be President but opposed Hillary its pretty hard to claim white supremacy at play.

For one thing, you can't quantify your statement on a person to person level. You can claim statistics, sure, but it's not like the same people turned out this time for Trump like they did for Obama in 2008, and 2012. And to make my point. These people you lend an olive branch, are the ones who were willing throw minorities under the bus for whatever 'byzantine' reason.
 

Nipo

Member
Why do minorities need to teach dumb-fuck, racist white people to not be dumb fucking racists?

You don't have an answer. I know you don't. You don't have an answer because there isn't one.

Because they want to win elections?
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
They weren't even the voting majority, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.

And yet she's not president, why? Because of the electoral college. A system I would love to see reformed, which can't be done without winning it first, which can't be done if you're only concerned with the popular vote.
 

Joyful

Member
People aren't telling you to just deal with racists and sexists and bigots. They're telling you to not jump the gun and call people those things just because they don't agree with you.

if they voted trump they kind of supported those things though
 

Nickle

Cool Facts: Game of War has been a hit since July 2013
I don't blame anyone for hating Trump supporters, but condemning Trump supporters won't win elections.
 
i love it when white people tell me how i should tolerate racism and give a platform to horrible views, especially when they will never be affected by these views and i will
 

jph139

Member
I love how it's always minorities who are the ones who have to "bridge the gap" and do the understanding, but the opposite is never expected

Because minorities are the minority.

That fucking sucks, believe me, I know, but white America can sit and safely ignore black people's troubles. The reverse is NOT true. It's unfair and it's unjust and it's a shitty situation, but any movement in America that doesn't make an effort to bring white men along is going to fail.
 

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
I completely agree. I'm not going to pretend every abhorrent viewpoint I come across is legitimate just to appease some bullshit sense of "fairness".
How about stopping yourself for a moment and consider their side?

Maybe they are against abortion because this is a value they have been taught since they were born? Maybe they are pitted against minorities because they have felt the job loss and rather than attribute it to technology and globalism, they think its the minorities fault?

There's a reason why uneducated people tend to vote Republican. The solution is right in our faces. Educate. Don't shout people down and shriek at them about how bigoted they are. This puts them on the defensive and causes them to double down. You would do the same.

No one is asking you to tolerate bullshit. That's a blatant mischaracterization of what we are saying. We're saying that people are not one-dimensional cartoons. Stop treating them as such.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom