Angelus Errare
Banned
So that Wafflecakes guy...did he ever catch the hammer? Was it perma? Can I have his username? XD
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The influx of moderates telling us to tolerate sexism, xenophobia, and racism all day
- Thread starter Crossing Eden
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So that Wafflecakes guy...did he ever catch the hammer? Was it perma? Can I have his username? XD
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Why acknowledge it when you can just blame the minorities for having an "echo chamber" instead? Everyone should disperse, there's no issue here, the minorities are the issue for speaking up, they should stop doing that and once again have the onus to educate the very people who won't give them the time of day that they're equals. The moderates ITT can step off it honestly.
Then how did Trump win? He wasn't likable at all.
Yes there is an underbelly of racism. We didn't lose because of racists. We lost because we couldnt GOTV.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Thank Bish. I was praying for you to show up.
capitalCORN
Member
Okay, provide a better candidate. Because Hillary was a long standing public worker, working closely with two presidents, with the experience only being a secretary of state could offer. Her major point of derision was the email scandal, with was fucking nothing in the end, but a narrative played incessantly in the media.
Slapped this together real quick:
Basically, from my POV, Hillary lost rural white america at multiple key spots. I'm not going to say they're all bigots or racists but I would imagine many of them would not have, ah, gotten along on GAF, and yet they voted for Obama, and I doubt it's because they were suddenly enlightened as to the validity of social issues in America.
It's been a while, but from what I remember of Obama's campaign he generally wasn't very antagonistic. '08 was "Hope" and "Change". '12 was "Forward". Many Democrats actually hated his lack of bite, if I recall correctly. He wasn't dropping the hot takes like everyone wanted but this, in retrospect, turned out to be a winning strategy. There was no talk of deplorables, or the demonization of cis white men. Or rather, at the time, it hadn't affected the electorate. All that changed in 2016.
This is what I mean when I said:
Basically, from my POV, Hillary lost rural white america at multiple key spots. I'm not going to say they're all bigots or racists but I would imagine many of them would not have, ah, gotten along on GAF, and yet they voted for Obama, and I doubt it's because they were suddenly enlightened as to the validity of social issues in America.
It's been a while, but from what I remember of Obama's campaign he generally wasn't very antagonistic. '08 was "Hope" and "Change". '12 was "Forward". Many Democrats actually hated his lack of bite, if I recall correctly. He wasn't dropping the hot takes like everyone wanted but this, in retrospect, turned out to be a winning strategy. There was no talk of deplorables, or the demonization of cis white men. Or rather, at the time, it hadn't affected the electorate. All that changed in 2016.
This is what I mean when I said:
Which is what happened over the course of the last... two years? We reached a tipping point. America look like it was slipping more and more from the hands of whites, and this was scary, and here comes Trump to reassure them that they can get it back. No wonder they could look past his, admittedly, numerous flaws to deliver him the presidency.
entremet
Member
Okay, but who's fault is this? Trump didn't even get loser Romney's turnout. She failed to get the vote out, she stop campaigning publicly for weeks at a time, and she didn't offer a compelling vision.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
You're just saying that because you're at least a semi-decent human being. Try to empathise and understand the kind of person a total asshole would like.
Albino_Yeti
Member
Bernie? And that was far from her major point of derision. People haven't forgotten Benghazi, and whether you blame her for it or not, plenty of people associate her with it, and that just increases the dislike of her by the public.
Captainbojanglesiii
Banned
A lot of people have been calling upon some other group to teach the supporters of Trump so as to not continue to vote for candidates like that, and not to tolerate racism. All of the people who supported Trump are not necessarily 'racist' in the traditional sense, but they are keen on putting their own self interests above the rights and good standing of minorities.
Empathy isn't learned, and more traditional racism is more built in from early years. So the question I have is how do we go about 'fixing' these people?
Empathy isn't learned, and more traditional racism is more built in from early years. So the question I have is how do we go about 'fixing' these people?
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
You seem to have a good grasp on the situation and I agree with your assessment entirely. However, we seem to be coming to different conclusions. People like me are not asking for compromise. Compromise is saying, "you guys can be half racist, and we'll tolerate it." We're asking for liberals to stop the demonization of these people. You recognize that the folks in the rust belt are downtrodden and have legitimate problems. How do we solve those problems? I don't know, I'm not an economist or a politician. What I can do as a private citizen is lend an ear and share some heart with these people. They are hurting and labeling them as bigots is not helping.
Psychoward
Banned
What did they say?
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Why acknowledge it when you can just blame the minorities for having an "echo chamber" instead? Everyone should disperse, there's no issue here, the minorities are the issue for speaking up, they should stop doing that and once again have the onus to educate the very people who won't give them the time of day that they're equals. The moderates ITT can step off it honestly.
I'm not even American and this is breaking my heart. I expected it, but I still can't take it.
Good luck to everyone out there.
Frozenprince
Banned
We shall not relent.
The sarcasm isn't needed. I read what you wrote. Did you read what I wrote?
I haven't seen anybody asking you to tolerate them. I haven't seen anybody asking you to extend an olive branch. I haven't seen anybody asking you to reeducate them. Assume these people are hopeless and move on.
What I HAVE seen, is people saying the issue is more complex than just "this is all the racists fault". These people are immediately labeled as moderates and shunned. We're all (I assume) in the same party and we all (I assume) voted for Clinton. We're on the same side here.
We need to look at why she lost, instead of focusing on the people who voted for him. Turnout was low all around, if she was even a little bit more appealing, or even a little bit more exciting of a candidate than we may not be having this conversation right now.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Gonna need you to tone down that kind of talk, buddy. This is how we got Trump in the first place, remember?
Didn't even wait until the 30th post to bust out the alt account suicide post. Well done.
spiderman123
Member
100000% this. There mere fact that we polarized and classified ALL Republicans as "racists" "misogynist" and "bigots" has resulted in this situation. I know Republicans who voted Republicans b/c of their political ideologies that have merit.
capitalCORN
Member
Benghazi got dropped early enough. And most people probably don't even know Clinton's true involvement in that tragedy. And like I posted before, 'Bernie math' doesn't equate in real life.
It sucks. We shouldn't be tabling racism. We need to NOT do exactly that. But in the end it has nothing to do with this election. The people who voted for Trump, as exit polling is showing, are the same ones who would have voted for Cruz, Rubio, etc. we like to believe that they "came out for Trump", but the CLEAR fact seems to be turning out that these people have always been there, always voting... and the polls have just always ignored them or marginalized them. Racism was the language of his campaign but it wasn't his propulsion across the finish line. Solid steady turnout by a reliable voter base, in contrast to a record low "NOT with her" turn out for a candidate whom the DNC royalty felt it was her turn to sit at the throne.
Let's keep talking about and fighting against racism, but also recognize it as nearly zero impact in why this shit show was lost. Especially considering... that those same people will be voting for the next non-Trump republican where we won't have the luxury of attributing blatant racism to the big Dem L.
Ascenion
Member
Minority Moderate conservative chiming in here. I didn't vote for Trump. I didn't want to be labeled a racist, or a bigot, or a traitor by my own community. Not to mention contrary to some beliefs Trump is not what the GOP wanted. A lot of us are just as pissed as the dems are. Point being this big ass L is nationwide. The GOP is in shambles we didn't want this, but it's our fault. We let our party become the joke it now is simply for power. We wanted the senate and the house but I'm not sure if anyone truly believed We'd get the White House too. This is me apologizing. I'm sorry I didn't take Trump seriously before it was too late. I'm sorry that we weren't strong enough or together enough as a party to find other ways to get what we wanted. This is on us and I'm gonna hope that we do everything in our power to keep that phoney in control.
As a minority it is my duty I think to tell people that don't want me to live my life why I deserve to and why they are wrong even if they won't listen so I can say I tried. However it isn't just on me, it's on every person that oppposes these viewpoints (racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc) to make their voice heard. The more voices the better.
But overall there is no point in shifting blame or pointing fingers this is everyone's fault. Republicans let this shit happen we need to own it. Dems disrespected all Trump supporters by labeling them as pretty much everything bad you can be without seeing that supporting any candidate brings compromises and couldn't motivate your party to vote for your candidate. Third party voters....you guys damn...Jill Stein supposedly got 1.2 million votes or some shit such as that with Johnson getting 4 million....why? That's 5 million votes not counting fucking Harambe write ins effectively thrown away. This isn't a game. Those votes could've been the difference. And finally a big fat L for people that just plain didn't vote. You know what you did or rather didn't do. This is on you too.
As a minority it is my duty I think to tell people that don't want me to live my life why I deserve to and why they are wrong even if they won't listen so I can say I tried. However it isn't just on me, it's on every person that oppposes these viewpoints (racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc) to make their voice heard. The more voices the better.
But overall there is no point in shifting blame or pointing fingers this is everyone's fault. Republicans let this shit happen we need to own it. Dems disrespected all Trump supporters by labeling them as pretty much everything bad you can be without seeing that supporting any candidate brings compromises and couldn't motivate your party to vote for your candidate. Third party voters....you guys damn...Jill Stein supposedly got 1.2 million votes or some shit such as that with Johnson getting 4 million....why? That's 5 million votes not counting fucking Harambe write ins effectively thrown away. This isn't a game. Those votes could've been the difference. And finally a big fat L for people that just plain didn't vote. You know what you did or rather didn't do. This is on you too.
"Saying 50 million Americans are racist is insane!"
I envy you.
Honest to god, I envy you.
I want your life.
I want to know what's like spending an entire lifetime not even having to think about things like this. To not have to think about how the country was literally founded on slavery and white supremacy. To just believe that shit went hunky-dory after MLK became civil rights jesus.
Honest to god, I want to have a life like that.
I envy you.
Honest to god, I envy you.
I want your life.
I want to know what's like spending an entire lifetime not even having to think about things like this. To not have to think about how the country was literally founded on slavery and white supremacy. To just believe that shit went hunky-dory after MLK became civil rights jesus.
Honest to god, I want to have a life like that.
Baroquemantic
Member
Thank you for making this thread. I agree completely.
Feel the Swift
Member
One of my co workers posted this today
Lol this guy probably pissed and moaned for months before accepting Obama was really president. It's literally been one day.
Honestly?
We had 8 years of Obama and under Obama not everyone prospered. They wanted change from the status quo and no matter who was put up to battle against Trump they probably would have floundered as much, if not more.
Hillary promised progress on Obama's legacy, and Trump promised blowing it all up and starting over. Her vision was compelling to me, but I ain't who she needed to convince.
Psychoward
Banned
I remember when I thought police didn't need systemic reform and just needed to get rid of the bad apples
;_;
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
The people who didn't vote are OK with a human piece of shit like Trump being elected President. They're as bad as the racists and can also all go fuck themselves.
This talk of not energising the dam voters is deflecting from the fact that the world still has a huge racism problem, no matter how hard we've tried to hide from the truth. You need the democrat campaign to come to your home town to tell you that a Trump presidency might be a bad idea? Don't give me that bullshit.
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
Don't like how minorities are now expected to be tolerant of people who chose the same side as the KKK and Neo-Nazis. Like, all of you supported a man like Donald Trump who has spouted so much rhetoric about getting rid of immigrants to make America great again? When my parents were first generation Nigerian immigrants? Go fuck off with all that. He may be my President but I'll never respect that bullshit.
NobleGundam
Banned
My co-worker is an open racist. I have to explain politically correct point of views so that he understands. He won't fully change hating black people and mexicans for personal reasons. I have family who are racist, bigots, sexist, xenophobic ppl. Hearing their opinions like for example: "All muslims are bad and sick humans killing innocent christian ppl." "And putting all muslims in america into internment camps."
I deal with this shit. It makes me fucking furious at times. I have to explain things to them why and how fucked up their povs are... do I have to teach them? No. But I do it anyways. You can't change people once they're set on something like Hate until they're put in other ppls positions being effected by it.
Imo, the mods here aren't just saying that you have to completely "Tolerate" it. It's a fucking bullshit compromise. A learning experience on both sides. You don't have to tolerate shit if you don't want to for whatever reason. But I think it's that creating a toxic space in gaf not fully accepting the results becomes ironically a hate and shaming environment towards ppl (in gaf) who voted trump if things get out of control. I'm sure Mods don't want to tell ppl to tolerate it and deal with it, but like I said, it's bs "Compromise".
I deal with this shit. It makes me fucking furious at times. I have to explain things to them why and how fucked up their povs are... do I have to teach them? No. But I do it anyways. You can't change people once they're set on something like Hate until they're put in other ppls positions being effected by it.
Imo, the mods here aren't just saying that you have to completely "Tolerate" it. It's a fucking bullshit compromise. A learning experience on both sides. You don't have to tolerate shit if you don't want to for whatever reason. But I think it's that creating a toxic space in gaf not fully accepting the results becomes ironically a hate and shaming environment towards ppl (in gaf) who voted trump if things get out of control. I'm sure Mods don't want to tell ppl to tolerate it and deal with it, but like I said, it's bs "Compromise".
Frozenprince
Banned
Right?? I said it in the other thread that I'm not hard pressed to think 60 million people are racist. I fully believe that.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Then people should argue that. Don't argue liberals were mean to Trump supporters.
This is the sentiment that I find laughable. The candidate built his whole damn platform off racism. It should be a damn default that people look at that and go "no fucking way" but we gotta have a conversation about it. These people aren't all racist (duh), but they have all said that in order to push forth an agenda they are willing to look past racism, xenophobia, sexism. That is not a respectable position. If you want people to swallow their pride and say "fine we have no choice" say that. But don't defend these people in any way shape or form because what they are doing is not fucking worthy of defense.
Yeah I agree here.
You completely missed the point.
"I don't like her, she obviously doesn't give a shit about me, so fuck her I'm just not going to vote."
WI didn't magically lean right. The blue just straight up decided to stay home.
So now not only go after people who voted for Trump, but let's go after the ones who didn't vote for him also.
I mean you're pissed. I'm guessing a minority. I'm guessing feeling rightfully shit on. I get it. Vent. Etc. I'm 100% behind you. But understanding politics is the first step to changing them. Why people don't vote or why people vote for someone they have major idealogical issues with is fundamental in understanding what the fuck happened this election.
You clearly did not. I didn't write shit about people telling us to tolerate racism.
I gave examples of what white people are telling us what to do.
The only people who need to change white people's minds are other white people.
GOP: -1 million vote
DEM: -6 million vote
She could have been president elect with 200k votes in the rust belt.
Let's worry about whether or not we need to reach out to bigots, instead of worrying about why we didn't have the right message to GOTV.
Remember the famed Clinton GOTV. Trump no GOTV outperformed her.
DEM: -6 million vote
She could have been president elect with 200k votes in the rust belt.
Let's worry about whether or not we need to reach out to bigots, instead of worrying about why we didn't have the right message to GOTV.
Remember the famed Clinton GOTV. Trump no GOTV outperformed her.
capitalCORN
Member
Really. People a probably patting themselves on their backs, over ventis, for creating a 'post racial society'.
In real life, absolutely. I stopped arguing on Facebook after 2012, shit just wasn't worth the anger it put in me.
But I absolutely try to educate in person. Though the only time I can really claim any success is with my parents and gay marriage. Eventually got them to agree it didn't affect them.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
They're putting their ideologies above the rights and well being of minorities. I'm sorry to have to tell you, but that makes them bigoted.
This is true.
cheezcake
Member
Their unfavorability at election time was extremely similar. 60 points for Trump vs 56 for Clinton. But Trump managed to energise a large voting bloc who genuinely like him, Clinton had no such group. The issue there is you can't energise a base by just saying look how bad the other guy is, which corresponds to the depressed voter turnout for democrats.
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
It's so fucking infuriating man. So many people don't want unity? Have KKK ideals been trickled down a rural white American mindset for this long? As a black man, is there nothing I can do to change this? Jeez today has been stressful for me.
Frozenprince
Banned
Just because these people were blue under Obama doesn't mean they were a hard blue and wouldn't dream of going back to red. This is what people are missing. They got cold feet when they saw the political discourse of 2016.
You can say you don't want flaky allies like them but it's just not productive.
You can say you don't want flaky allies like them but it's just not productive.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Considering we have an entire political party who created and still use the Southern Strategy whose entire purpose is demonizing minorities and framing everything as an "us vs them", where local, state, and federal laws and representative are put in place to further entrench this view...this is a weird request.
Doubly so when the other party's policies are basically the last life line of rural America at this point even if they're unaware of it (Once again I confer to statistics that show rural Americans utilize and stay on social welfare programs as long as any other group despite the narrative they don't).
Desparadina
Member
There should never be a fucking middle ground where we have to appeal to bigots. You have to be outta your fucking head to actually believe that minorities should just open their arms out to people who've never given a fuck about them in the first place.
These people deserved to be demonized, their behavior shouldn't be normalized. Just the very suggestion of that in light of all the current hate crimes I've seen popping up here and in rl is infuriating. You'd have to be real ignorant or at least privileged enough to have never felt the brunt of bigotry to really think that calling a spade a spade is a viable political strategy.
We can all recognize that maybe not all Trump supporters are straight up bigots but it doesn't change the fact that they voted for one. The reasons behind it don't fucking matter either, because it's all more than likely rooted in the fact that they gave not one fuck about minorities in the first place. So don't fucking expect me or any other minority to do it either. If these people wanted or even needed sympathy then maybe you white moderates should go out and teach them to do so instead of putting the blame on the people calling out their deplorable behavior.
These people deserved to be demonized, their behavior shouldn't be normalized. Just the very suggestion of that in light of all the current hate crimes I've seen popping up here and in rl is infuriating. You'd have to be real ignorant or at least privileged enough to have never felt the brunt of bigotry to really think that calling a spade a spade is a viable political strategy.
We can all recognize that maybe not all Trump supporters are straight up bigots but it doesn't change the fact that they voted for one. The reasons behind it don't fucking matter either, because it's all more than likely rooted in the fact that they gave not one fuck about minorities in the first place. So don't fucking expect me or any other minority to do it either. If these people wanted or even needed sympathy then maybe you white moderates should go out and teach them to do so instead of putting the blame on the people calling out their deplorable behavior.
One question that needs answered is how we should feel about apathetic voters in the face of a clearly racist dangerous idiot running on the other side.
In my mind, not voting for Hillary is just as much an acceptance of Trump as voting for Trump is.
Clearly a lot of these people were disenfranchised by the repeal of the voting rights act, but not all 6 million of these people were stopped from voting, surely many of them chose not to vote.
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