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Nick Robinson (Polygon) answers to sexual harassment allegations, leaves Polygon

B

BTA

Member
L Thammy said:
A lot of people in the previous thread were saying that they liked Nick Robinson because he seemed like a "soft boy". Unless I'm confused. This is the first time I've heard the term.
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It's... complicated? I guess?

There's a decent amount of writing on it as a thing if you do a quick Google search, but essentially it has a lot to do with being a guy who's positioned as not being dangerous, being safe compared to other men. Some of the stuff written on it defines it as being inherently manipulative - always a facade to trick women - but I don't think that's true of how it's being discussed in this context.

The messy bit of this, also. is where it's tied to being more feminine, and what writing off "soft boys" overall can mean for more feminine men. Though now I'm just restating things that were said better elsewhere.

Anyway- there are fans who have referred to him + Griffin + the other McElroys as "soft boys" (or "_ boy" in general) positively, whether in a genuine way or a sort of joking self-deprecating way. Using "boy" a ton in general is a McElroy thing; a common way for fans to refer to them is "those good good boys". It's important to note, though, that "soft boy" is definitely not a thing original to them as some people thought in the previous thread.

EDIT: Oops, hit post too early!

Meanwhile you also have people who use it negatively, particularly as they see it as giving cis white men a pass (that people who do not fit nicely into that label do not get) just because they seem nice and unassuming, because that could just be performative and isn't inherently worth trusting without any actions backing it up. Which... well. Here we are.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
Yeah, I've just settled for not really knowing what it means; it doesn't seem to be vital here. I think in the other thread people were defining it in contrast to "beta male" (which is part of a very questionable, to say the least, framework of looking at human behaviour) and "fuckboi" (which I also don't fully know the meaning of despite having it explained to me by my cousin at a Thanksgiving party).

imjust1n said:
Good apology but it might be hard for him to get a job after this one.
Click to expand...

I'll ask you to look through the thread a little bit and see some of the other responses to the apology. It's actually deceptive; what he's apologizing for isn't as severe as what he actually is accused of.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
A soft boy is just a man who presents as gentle and non-threatening maybe (but not necessarily) to the point of effeminate.

The clap-back here is that Nick used a soft boy image as a cover to be a creeper. Because he didn't "look like" a creeper, women and girls were maybe disarmed and didn't recognize that he was overstepping boundaries.

In the manipulative version of a soft boy, you present as nice and harmless so people let their guard down.

Austin Walker did a nice little take: https://twitter.com/austin_walker/status/893660361420922880

That should link to the end of a short thread but that specific tweet is "This is why I don't fuck with "soft boy" culture. The people I respect in our field aren't defined by their softness, but by their goodness.". Basically, presentation isn't essence. You can earnestly and sincerely be a soft boy, and that's fine and maybe even good. But a performative soft boy can be a trap.
 
B

BTA

Member
Brakke said:
A soft boy is just a man who presents as gentle and non-threatening maybe (but not necessarily) to the point of effeminate.

The clap-back here is that Nick used a soft boy image as a cover to be a creeper. Because he didn't "look like" a creeper, women and girls were maybe disarmed and didn't recognize that he was overstepping boundaries.

In the manipulative version of a soft boy, you present as nice and harmless so people let their guard down.

Austin Walker did a nice little take: https://twitter.com/austin_walker/status/893660361420922880

That should link to the end of a short thread but that specific tweet is "This is why I don't fuck with "soft boy" culture. The people I respect in our field aren't defined by their softness, but by their goodness.". Basically, presentation isn't essence. You can earnestly and sincerely be a soft boy, and that's fine and maybe even good. But a performative soft boy can be a trap.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the said better elsewhere I was referring to; thank you for linking! I think that and the thread Austin links to covers it very well.
 
A

always crazy bacon

Banned
That was not an apology, it was a carefully PR worded statement.

Ashamed, regret? No! embarrassed. Everyone can relate to embarrassment right? hey "now we have common ground". So transparent.
 
B

BTA

Member
NotLiquid said:
Man this thing is a mess to read. Some of the info as well like "has a subscription to Fakku" is complete 'whatever' info. Dude likes porn; not a surprise to anyone and not something I think people care about.

That said I do believe everything thats in here and yeah, the actual scope of what he's done to people is completely messed up, and yes, it makes his apology so much more disingenuous.
Click to expand...

I think that was there just as proof he would go to the party? It feels weird to include by itself though, yeah.
 
C

Cyanity

Banned
Y'all not understanding good good soft boy culture is disappointing. I think it was started by the Mackelroys, not Nick Robinson. And it's still a good, pure term used to describe sweet woke boys who aren't necessarily confining themselves to stereotypical gender norms. Don't hate the softness; hate the boy.
 
B

BTA

Member
BTA said:
It's... complicated? I guess?

There's a decent amount of writing on it as a thing if you do a quick Google search, but essentially it has a lot to do with being a guy who's positioned as not being dangerous, being safe compared to other men. Some of the stuff written on it defines it as being inherently manipulative - always a facade to trick women - but I don't think that's true of how it's being discussed in this context.

The messy bit of this, also. is where it's tied to being more feminine, and what writing off "soft boys" overall can mean for more feminine men. Though now I'm just restating things that were said better elsewhere.

Anyway- there are fans who have referred to him + Griffin + the other McElroys as "soft boys" (or "_ boy" in general) positively, whether in a genuine way or a sort of joking self-deprecating way. Using "boy" a ton in general is a McElroy thing; a common way for fans to refer to them is "those good good boys". It's important to note, though, that "soft boy" is definitely not a thing original to them as some people thought in the previous thread.

EDIT: Oops, hit post too early!

Meanwhile you also have people who use it negatively, particularly as they see it as giving cis white men a pass (that people who do not fit nicely into that label do not get) just because they seem nice and unassuming, because that could just be performative and isn't inherently worth trusting without any actions backing it up. Which... well. Here we are.
Click to expand...

Cyanity said:
Y'all not understanding good good soft boy culture is disappointing. I think it was started by the Mackelroys, not Nick Robinson. And it's still a good, pure term used to describe sweet woke boys who aren't necessarily confining themselves to stereotypical gender norms. Don't hate the softness; hate the boy.
Click to expand...

Please try to read the thread a bit more before jumping in. It absolutely wasn't started by any of them (the actual McElroy fan original thing is just "good good boys" alone) and was used negatively even before it caught on with fans of them.
 
B

Bobo Dakes

Member
Cyanity said:
Y'all not understanding good good soft boy culture is disappointing. I think it was started by the Mackelroys, not Nick Robinson. And it's still a good, pure term used to describe sweet woke boys who aren't necessarily confining themselves to stereotypical gender norms. Don't hate the softness; hate the boy.
Click to expand...

...

Are you joking?
 
S

SilentRob

Member
Cyanity said:
Y'all not understanding good good soft boy culture is disappointing. I think it was started by the Mackelroys, not Nick Robinson. And it's still a good, pure term used to describe sweet woke boys who aren't necessarily confining themselves to stereotypical gender norms. Don't hate the softness; hate the boy.
Click to expand...
For fuck's Sake Just talk like a normal human being. Yes. Griffin saying "good good boy" is funny. I get it. But jesus christ. This is embarassing.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
Yeah, I'm still leaning on not needing to understand the term.

What I am wonder though, I heard a saw references in these threads to Nick approaching underage girls. Was a number ever given or were we just given "underage"? I'm not sure what's being referred to. Going by souIspear it isn't unthinkable that he makes use of age differences, but she was 18.
 
T

The Greek Freak

Member
Cyanity said:
Y'all not understanding good good soft boy culture is disappointing. I think it was started by the Mackelroys, not Nick Robinson. And it's still a good, pure term used to describe sweet woke boys who aren't necessarily confining themselves to stereotypical gender norms. Don't hate the softness; hate the boy.
Click to expand...

It's fine if that is just what someone happens to be, but my stance of immediately and harshly distrusting anyone (in real life not just game personalities) who actively tries to cultivate that image has never led me astray.

It's "nice guy" but even worse.
 
M

mr teaspoon

Member
Am I the only one who feels fucking old? "Soft boy culture"? What is this shit? 'Well, it's a guy who isn't an alpha male and is generally more sensitive, and doesn't conform to.....' So then, like, a NORMAL PERSON? I mean, not Nick, obviously, but... Fuck, god, so many labels to the point of absurdity.
 
B

BTA

Member
mr teaspoon said:
Am I the only one who feels fucking old? "Soft boy culture"? What is this shit? 'Well, it's a guy who isn't an alpha male and is generally more sensitive, and doesn't conform to.....' So then, like, a NORMAL PERSON? I mean, not Nick, obviously, but... Fuck, god, so many labels to the point of absurdity.
Click to expand...

It has more to do with femininity/specifically being less dangerous seeming than not being super masculine (and therefore being average), if that makes sense?

Language changes and people need words for things.
 
R

Raptor

Member
mr teaspoon said:
Am I the only one who feels fucking old? "Soft boy culture"? What is this shit? 'Well, it's a guy who isn't an alpha male and is generally more sensitive, and doesn't conform to.....' So then, like, a NORMAL PERSON? I mean, not Nick, obviously, but... Fuck, god, so many labels to the point of absurdity.
Click to expand...

I agree we are old, I dont understand half of what is being discussed here for instance.
 
M

mr teaspoon

Member
BTA said:
It has more to do with femininity/specifically being less dangerous seeming than not being super masculine (and therefore being average), if that makes sense?

Language changes and people need words for things.
Click to expand...

I just don't see the need for the specific definition. I mean, I understand the definition. But I don't see the value in it. Wow, a polite, non-aggressive guy. Back in my day, we'd look at that and say, 'Yeah, Bill is a nice guy.' Now everything has to be some bizarre subculture. 'Oh, no, no, no. Jeff isn't a soft boy. See, he also enjoys going kayaking on the weekends. So he's an MFsoftboy, which means he's only a soft boy on weekdays.'

Again, I'm just old.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
mr teaspoon said:
I just don't see the need for the specific definition. I mean, I understand the definition. But I don't see the value in it. Wow, a polite, non-aggressive guy. Back in my day, we'd look at that and say, 'Yeah, Bill is a nice guy.' Now everything has to be some bizarre subculture. 'Oh, no, no, no. Jeff isn't a soft boy. See, he also enjoys going kayaking on the weekends. So he's an MFsoftboy, which means he's only a soft boy on weekdays.'

Again, I'm just old.
Click to expand...

I know "nice guy" has become a word on tumblr - maybe elsewhere, I've just read that it's a tumblr thing - for people who apply that to themselves to present themselves as downtrodden. Specifically based off of the "I'm a nice guy, why don't girls like me" thing. So maybe that's where the need comes up.
 
B

Bobo Dakes

Member
mr teaspoon said:
Am I the only one who feels fucking old? "Soft boy culture"? What is this shit? 'Well, it's a guy who isn't an alpha male and is generally more sensitive, and doesn't conform to.....' So then, like, a NORMAL PERSON? I mean, not Nick, obviously, but... Fuck, god, so many labels to the point of absurdity.
Click to expand...

It doesn't sell/ catch on until you label it something weird.

It's weird to me too at 24, but you gotta just roll with it.
 
S

Sethista

Member
mr teaspoon said:
I just don't see the need for the specific definition. I mean, I understand the definition. But I don't see the value in it. Wow, a polite, non-aggressive guy. Back in my day, we'd look at that and say, 'Yeah, Bill is a nice guy.' Now everything has to be some bizarre subculture. 'Oh, no, no, no. Jeff isn't a soft boy. See, he also enjoys going kayaking on the weekends. So he's an MFsoftboy, which means he's only a soft boy on weekdays.'

Again, I'm just old.
Click to expand...

I am 100% with you.

Its like someone that agrees with 90% of liberal thinking, but has 10% conservative views so people put them in a category that they feel confortable in calling them alt right.

How about he seemed like a nice guy but was agressive in flirting with women, thus an asshole?

I read some of the messages, and some of it was pretty egregious. I dont understand how he thought some of that stuff was ok. Thats no nice guy.
 
T

TwilightPrincess

Member
Polygonal_Sprite said:
Wow. It's much, much worse than I thought. Into hentai and asking barely legal woman for nudes...
Click to expand...

Who cares if he is into hentai? The problem is the thing about him almost raping a drunk girl, if true. Also the stuff with minors. Some other things sound more like some women fell for him, played along an were devastated after he went on to fuck another woman. I mean the "ghosting" thing. There are some things mixed in that probably shouldn't, but the whole picture looks bad either way.
 
B

Big Nikus

Member
Monkeyball said:
And oh boy is he a nerd

https://youtu.be/t0M23Hs9EK8
Click to expand...

Oh, wow. First time I don't regret reading Youtube comments :

catsadu4k.png
 
autoduelist

autoduelist

Member
mr teaspoon said:
Am I the only one who feels fucking old? "Soft boy culture"? What is this shit? 'Well, it's a guy who isn't an alpha male and is generally more sensitive, and doesn't conform to.....' So then, like, a NORMAL PERSON? I mean, not Nick, obviously, but... Fuck, god, so many labels to the point of absurdity.
Click to expand...

You're not alone. It all feels like a way to funnel every guy into a different label as to how they attract mates. Too strong? Too nice? Too kind? Too fast? I'm very thankful I'm happily married, these currents are hard to understand, let alone navigate.

I do know this dude is off -- asking a relative strange for head is creepy as hell. But beyond that, I'm mostly just confused by half the posts here.
 
I

Incandenza

Banned
When I see people get bitter and defensive over new terminology, 99% of the time it's just a way to say "I don't understand the new thing because I'm not part of the crowds where that thing is relevant, and rather than making the effort to understand the new thing I'm just gonna say it's not actually valuable and the fact that you made a word for it is dumb." Culture evolves and language evolves and people make new terms to capture new experiences. If it seems hyperspecific then you probably just don't roll in a space where that hyperspecificity is valuable. Other people do though. Like I'm just saying these are the same arguments people use to justify gross shit like "Back in my day we only had two genders and nobody had a problem with it!" or "Why can't people just pick a real sexuality instead of all this pansexual and demisexual nonsense? So many silly labels these days!"
 
M

mr teaspoon

Member
Incandenza said:
Like I'm just saying these are the same arguments people use to justify gross shit like "Back in my day we only had two genders and nobody had a problem with it!" or "Why can't people just pick a real sexuality instead of all this pansexual and demisexual nonsense? So many silly labels these days!"
Click to expand...

Well, it really was a digression on my part. But how disgusting of you to compare my confusion over "soft boy" to anti-LGBT sentiment.

Please enlighten me, in direct quotes, as to what my "argument" was against any person's way of life. My issue with "soft boy," mild though it may be, is that it's unnecessarily vague. From my point of view, it's non-specific to a point of meaninglessness. From what people have explained to me, it refers to a guy who isn't a traditional 'manly man' and doesn't have any big hangups regarding gender roles. I knew/know plenty of people like that, and they're all very different individuals for whom I don't see any natural commonality beyond being, you know, nice guys. Not a-holes.

Is it possible that I just don't run in social circles where it's a meaningful term, and thus am unfamiliar with it? Yeah, maybe. So what? Again, absolutely disgusting that you'd compare that to, 'But why trans people, tho?'
 
B

Breads

Banned
Cyanity said:
Y'all not understanding good good soft boy culture is disappointing. I think it was started by the Mackelroys, not Nick Robinson. And it's still a good, pure term used to describe sweet woke boys who aren't necessarily confining themselves to stereotypical gender norms. Don't hate the softness; hate the boy.
Click to expand...
The quickest way to describe the difference is whether or not its just a facade that diguises a fuckboy.

mr teaspoon said:
My issue with "soft boy," mild though it may be, is that it's unnecessarily vague. From my point of view, it's non-specific to a point of meaninglessness.
Click to expand...
Its not vague at all. It's a fuckboy who pretends to be a good sweet boy.
 
M

MadJackChurchill

Banned
Not my place to give him a pass, that's exclusively for his victims. However, his handling of this situation is significantly better than others, who become reactionary and go on the attack.
 
B

BTA

Member
mr teaspoon said:
Well, it really was a digression on my part. But how disgusting of you to compare my confusion over "soft boy" to anti-LGBT sentiment.

Please enlighten me, in direct quotes, as to what my "argument" was against any person's way of life. My issue with "soft boy," mild though it may be, is that it's unnecessarily vague. From my point of view, it's non-specific to a point of meaninglessness. From what people have explained to me, it refers to a guy who isn't a traditional 'manly man' and doesn't have any big hangups regarding gender roles. I knew/know plenty of people like that, and they're all very different individuals for whom I don't see any natural commonality beyond being, you know, nice guys. Not a-holes.

Is it possible that I just don't run in social circles where it's a meaningful term, and thus am unfamiliar with it? Yeah, maybe. So what? Again, absolutely disgusting that you'd compare that to, 'But why trans people, tho?'
Click to expand...

I guess what I'd say is that I feel it's much less of a label one uses for themselves and more a way to discuss a cultural phenomenon? The fans using it positively has corrupted that somewhat, but still.

For what it's worth it does seem like you are ranting about a term that isn't used in your social circle while it is valuable in others, and that kind of thing generally bothers me for the exact reasons Incandenza said, but I wouldn't have compared it to that, no. That being said, I don't think Incandenza really was either? Their point is that those sentiments have a similar logic behind them when discussing terminology, which I don't think is fully inaccurate despite thinking they should have worded that part better.
 
I

Incandenza

Banned
BTA said:
I guess what I'd say is that I feel it's much less of a label one uses for themselves and more a way to discuss a cultural phenomenon? The fans using it positively has corrupted that somewhat, but still.

For what it's worth it does seem like you are ranting about a term that isn't used in your social circle while it is valuable in others, and that kind of thing generally bothers me for the exact reasons Incandenza said, but I wouldn't have compared it to that, no. That being said, I don't think Incandenza really was either? Their point is that those sentiments have a similar logic behind them when discussing terminology, which I don't think is fully inaccurate despite thinking they should have worded that part better.
Click to expand...
Yuup, my point is that when I see the "silly labels to the point of absurdity" sentiment trotted out I immediately get suspicious because I've seen almost that exact logic used to advance some really ugly, intolerant viewpoints. Teaspoon, I'm sorry I made it sound like you might sympathize with those views too, I'm sure you don't. But I do think people need to be careful of the line between "this isn't relevant to my life specifically" and "this isn't relevant to anyone's life, people are just being ridiculous"

As for "softboy" as a term, if it seems too vague it's because different circles settle on different definitions of the term that work best for them, cause that's just how language goes. In some spaces it might just mean "man who deliberately subverts traditional masculine expectations", in others it might mean "man who performatively subverts traditional masculine expectations with the intent of appearing safe to women", in others it might just mean "Griffin McElroy and Nick Robinson, who I thought were cute and nice and one time Griffin renamed an NPC 'Softboy' in a Monster Factory ep and wasn't that funny"
 
B

broscientific

Member
MadJackChurchill said:
Not my place to give him a pass, that's exclusively for his victims. However, his handling of this situation is significantly better than others, who become reactionary and go on the attack.
Click to expand...

The fact that this non-apology is seen positively by some because the par-for-the-course response from other abusers is so garbage is disheartening.
 
M

mr teaspoon

Member
BTA said:
For what it's worth it does seem like you are ranting about a term that isn't used in your social circle while it is valuable in others, and that kind of thing generally bothers me for the exact reasons Incandenza said, but I wouldn't have compared it to that, no.
Click to expand...

I don't care if someone accuses me of "ranting," which really boils down to 'talking a lot.' Like I said, I'm old. These terms, or their usefulness, confuse me. If anyone cares to read what I wrote, nowhere will they find any actual hostility towards people or subcultures. Generational gaps in and of themselves are not to be feared.

BTA said:
That being said, I don't think Incandenza really was either? Their point is that those sentiments have a similar logic behind them when discussing terminology, which I don't think is fully inaccurate despite thinking they should have worded that part better.
Click to expand...

I don't want to get too off topic and make this about me, but I'm sorry -- I can't let that stand. It's an obscene comparison. I challenge you, or anyone else making that claim, to explain to me, with specific quotes, where my confusion about the term "soft boy" lines up with anti-trans or anti-LGBT sentiment. The comparison is absurd.

"Soft boy" is not a culture. "Soft boys" don't get killed for who they are. My asking, 'Isn't "soft boy" another way of saying 'mild mannered individual'?' is ***in no way*** comparable to someone asking, 'Can't girls be girls and guys be guys?' Just, do not even wade into those waters.
 
J

jay

Member
mr teaspoon said:
I just don't see the need for the specific definition. I mean, I understand the definition. But I don't see the value in it. Wow, a polite, non-aggressive guy. Back in my day, we'd look at that and say, 'Yeah, Bill is a nice guy.' Now everything has to be some bizarre subculture. 'Oh, no, no, no. Jeff isn't a soft boy. See, he also enjoys going kayaking on the weekends. So he's an MFsoftboy, which means he's only a soft boy on weekdays.'

Again, I'm just old.
Click to expand...

If we didn't need have elaborate complex wording for everything how would we know how people are? Certainly not by behavior.
 
M

Mesoian

Member
mr teaspoon said:
Am I the only one who feels fucking old? "Soft boy culture"? What is this shit? 'Well, it's a guy who isn't an alpha male and is generally more sensitive, and doesn't conform to.....' So then, like, a NORMAL PERSON? I mean, not Nick, obviously, but... Fuck, god, so many labels to the point of absurdity.
Click to expand...

age comes at you fast.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
mr teaspoon said:
Am I the only one who feels fucking old? "Soft boy culture"? What is this shit? 'Well, it's a guy who isn't an alpha male and is generally more sensitive, and doesn't conform to.....' So then, like, a NORMAL PERSON? I mean, not Nick, obviously, but... Fuck, god, so many labels to the point of absurdity.
Click to expand...

___ culture being used to describe EVERYTHING is one of those things I think is kinda dumb. I wouldnt worry about it.
 
B

BTA

Member
mr teaspoon said:
I don't care if someone accuses me of "ranting," which really boils down to 'talking a lot.' Like I said, I'm old. These terms, or their usefulness, confuse me. If anyone cares to read what I wrote, nowhere will they find any actual hostility towards people or subcultures. Generational gaps in and of themselves are not to be feared.



I don't want to get too off topic and make this about me, but I'm sorry -- I can't let that stand. It's an obscene comparison. I challenge you, or anyone else making that claim, to explain to me, with specific quotes, where my confusion about the term "soft boy" lines up with anti-trans or anti-LGBT sentiment. The comparison is absurd.

"Soft boy" is not a culture. "Soft boys" don't get killed for who they are. My asking, 'Isn't "soft boy" another way of saying 'mild mannered individual'?' is ***in no way*** comparable to someone asking, 'Can't girls be girls and guys be guys?' Just, do not even wade into those waters.
Click to expand...

I used "ranting" because you sounded angry, and it wasn't even an insult. I sure have talked a lot, sometimes angrily, in this thread.

What we were talking about isn't anything you said specifically about soft boys, it's more the "too many labels" stuff and so on. Again, it's not like either of us thinks you have any terrible views or anything. It's that kind of thing generally being a red flag when talking about changing terminology for the reasons that were described in prior posts. I feel like we've made a minor point into something that sounds bigger than it is and I'm sorry about that.
 
Amibguous Cad

Amibguous Cad

Member
Because "feminine men are dangerous predators" is the wokest sentiment of all. It certainly doesn't have a history progressives should be wary of recalling'
 
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