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Sonic Forces - Space Port Gameplay

RocknRola

Member
I'm glad this gif keeps getting reposted. Its a great reminder of how awesome and open some of the Sonic Adventure stages were for Sonic gameplay.

.

I don't feel that, for SA1 at least, level design was ever the main issue with it. A weird twitchy camera that would set itself in weird angles, twitchy controls (at least for new players trying it today) were and still are it's main flaws regarding gameplay. Arguably, it being only 1/6th of pure Sonic gameplay was also an issue, though Tails is almost a carbon copy + flight.

Regarding the physics, while they were trying to emulate the 2D games they also needed to be fixed. They somehow mistook their "quick fix" of adding speedpads before loops (and in many other places) to fix the physics as the way to go, instead of what it was, a fix to combat the somewhat wonky physics (in particular the way the characters slowed down way too fast on anything that wasn't a leveled floor)

As someone already said here, the physics did support a natural speed progression. You could do some of the loops naturally by jumping over the speedpads. You could also gain some decent speed naturally, especially if you had downward slopes in your way. However, as I mentioned, the character also slowed down way too fast, which meant that it's wasn't a smooth, constant process of sorts. Sometimes it worked, sometimes you'd crawl to halt while going up and then you'd fall down. So they fixed that by adding speedpads everywhere to make a more consistent (during loops, scripted events, etc) experience for everyone.

A return to this style would probably work really well with Lost Worlds parkour system, for example, and it's 3 tiered speed system. It would allow you to slowly explore without going from 0 to 100 in 1s and also allow you to gain speed when you wanted to do so.

Alas, all we are getting is Generations but somehow much worse >.> The fuck Sonic Team?!
 

Sami+

Member
I don't think the game looks bad. It just looks mediocre.

To be fair to some of the people posting, it's been a relatively long time since we got a new 3D Sonic game (not counting RoL, obviously) and this game is looking noticeably worse than Colors or Generations so I can understand some of the hyperbole. It's a shame that the game is sort of looking like another Lost World (relatively forgettable and limited in scope).

Of course, I'm sure some people are here just to shit on Sonic for the sake of it, cause this is Neogaf, but whatever. The mods sure don't care.

What do you even expect the mods to do lol, it's not like making fun of bad video games is against TOS.

Besides one of the mods literally worked on the most recent major Sonic game lol
 

theofficefan99

Junior Member
Christ, am i the only one who thing this game will be interesting? Lol. Im close to cancel my amazon pre order because of general opinion :)

I think it looks interesting. The levels don't look un-fun, they just look like it could've been better. I guess this is a result of Lost World selling pretty badly and thus the lower budget for this game. I dunno. I'm also going to keep bitching about the fact that after Colors, CG cutscenes have been practically absent in Sonic games. Like WTF Sega no your CGI is beautiful.

Anyways, I think Colors, Generations, and Unleashed are good enough games (never played Lost World due to no WiiU) for me to support this. I want to buy it on release but I still have to finish Unleashed and Generations and I haven't bought Mania yet.
 
What do you even expect the mods to do lol, it's not like making fun of bad video games is against TOS.

Besides one of the mods literally worked on the most recent major Sonic game lol

I dunno man, were you here for that thread that was about the announcement of the Create-A-Hero gameplay? A ton of gross fan art, dog piling, and the thread being closed with the sentence "This is why people don't like Sonic fans". It wasn't pretty lol.

Why are the visuals so dated? it looks last gen.

Supposedly so it can run at 60fps on all systems besides the Switch. Doesn't excuse the lack of imagination behind these levels though.
 
*sigh* Sega, WTF are you doing???

All I could think of while watching the first video in the OP was "how many times can they possibly take control away from the player in a platforming game???" The answer was a lot more than I thought.

Edit: I used the wrong term... Not so much taking control away from the player (although that did happen) and more like having little pre-canned sequences happen all the freaking time.
 
The visuals for this game are all over the place. I think Park Avenue looks pretty slick, but not much else is doing it for me. Infinite's city backdrop thing looks neat, at least.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
Oh god @ Infinite.

From: "This guy's faster than Sonic!"
to
"I'm gonna float here motionlessly while this guy repeatedly whips me in the face."

I almost expected him to blurt Knuckles' "OHNO!"
 

RocknRola

Member
Oh god @ Infinite.

From: "This guy's faster than Sonic!"
to
"I'm gonna float here motionlessly while this guy repeatedly whips me in the face."

I almost expected him to blurt Knuckles' "OHNO!"

Actually, if they did that I'd buy it right away. Best feature. BEST. FEATURE.
 

Sami+

Member
I dunno man, were you here for that thread that was about the announcement of the Create-A-Hero gameplay? A ton of gross fan art, dog piling, and the thread being closed with the sentence "This is why people don't like Sonic fans". It wasn't pretty lol.



Supposedly so it can run at 60fps on all systems besides the Switch. Doesn't excuse the lack of imagination behind these levels though.

Oh the fanart shit is always gross and rightfully gets shut down by the mods, not gonna disagree on that. I just don't think anything in this thread or even most other Forces threads after that one is unreasonable.
 

brad-t

Member
I don't think the game looks bad. It just looks mediocre.

People keep saying this but I can't imagine a scenario where another major dev/IP gets a release that looks like this and doesn't get reamed for it. People just have low expectations of 3D Sonic games relative to other big-name titles in the market, to the point where something that barely looks better than Mighty No. 9 is being described as "mediocre" or "average". This game looks bad.
 
People keep saying this but I can't imagine a scenario where another major dev/IP gets a release that looks like this and doesn't get reamed for it. People just have low expectations of 3D Sonic games relative to other big-name titles in the market, to the point where something that barely looks better than Mighty No. 9 is being described as "mediocre" or "average". This game looks bad.

I actually played Mighty No.9 and it was an absolute travesty. I really don't see how you could compare that to Forces. Forces doesn't look like it's full of technical problems, or cheap deaths, or cutscenes that look like they were made for a PSP game, among many other things.

Forces looks, by all means, passable. Just not terribly fun or interesting. It looks surprisingly stable and playable so I don't see what makes it so bad. It could be better and it should be better but it doesn't look like an objectively bad 4/10 title or anything.

A 4/10 is something you'd give to a title like Shadow the Hedgehog or Sonic and the Black Knight. Sonic Forces certainly looks better than both of those.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
The UI is still WAYYYYYY too big and obnoxious :(

E: Man they other characters REALLY need to stop talking.

But, at the end of the IGN clip we see the Casino from before - still no enemies, still massive visual clutter. BUT, it seems like they're at least altering the physics from before. Seems like he's actually gaining speed and doesn't stick to the vertical wall as before.

347cddc2e606d0251a4101ce72b8ae78.gif

I think that sticking to wall stuff is just a random glitch tbh.
 

nampad

Member
I was wondering if the gameplay was good because the thread had so many pages. Should have known it was the other way round, Sonic Mania was just a mishap.

I have no fucking clue what is actually going on in the gameplay video.
 

Ristifer

Member
The music is not memorable at all, the level design is awkward and beyond simplistic, the whole "attitude" of the game is... stupid, and at the end of the day, it just doesn't look fun. This game just looks more and more disappointing with everything they show. Kudos to them for at least trying to improve the physics in the Classic Sonic parts, but the rest was underwhelming at best.

Considering actually cancelling my pre-order, and I was really hoping it would come around.
 
Has anyone ever managed to turn the 3D Sonic setup into something good? Freedom Planet managed to do 2D Sonic better than Sonic does, but 3D Sonic's whole design just doesn't seem to work from the get go.

No they didn't. Freedom Planet feels more like a Treasure game than a Sonic game.

=====================================

I just want to know the back story behind the development of this game. It's not bad, but it's obviously not good either. It's safe in the worst way possible, and I don't understand why are they phoning this game in such a manner. At the end of the game they should aspire to make a good game, and clearly deadline wasn't an issue especially if they were working on this since Lost World was developed (obviously a lie, considering the result.) Is this a test to churn out budgeted annual entries again? Because I don't want that shit.

The biggest issue with this game is simple. It lacks ambition.

Oh the fanart shit is always gross and rightfully gets shut down by the mods, not gonna disagree on that. I just don't think anything in this thread or even most other Forces threads after that one is unreasonable.

I dunno man, were you here for that thread that was about the announcement of the Create-A-Hero gameplay? A ton of gross fan art, dog piling, and the thread being closed with the sentence "This is why people don't like Sonic fans". It wasn't pretty lol.

Kinda sucks that Sonic Fans have to take the bunt of people being assholes.
 

HF2014

Member
I think it looks interesting. The levels don't look un-fun, they just look like it could've been better. I guess this is a result of Lost World selling pretty badly and thus the lower budget for this game. I dunno. I'm also going to keep bitching about the fact that after Colors, CG cutscenes have been practically absent in Sonic games. Like WTF Sega no your CGI is beautiful.

Anyways, I think Colors, Generations, and Unleashed are good enough games (never played Lost World due to no WiiU) for me to support this. I want to buy it on release but I still have to finish Unleashed and Generations and I haven't bought Mania yet.

I dunno. Perhaps getting at amazon at great preorder price, 39$ cnd, push me to get it. And, its a Sonic game, look a lot like Generation, and the create caracter look fun. All this together make me think i need it, but with Doom, Skyrim and Mario coming out and on my buy list, i just wonder when i will get the time to play it.

Oh well, im keeping it. Worst scenario, i can end up selling it on kijiji after for about the price i paid if i dont like it.
 
The biggest issue with this game is simple. It lacks ambition.
I don't think it lacks ambition - the very fact that we're getting an actual story featuring multiple characters and a new playable character with alternate gameplay and musical themes is a testament to that - I think it lacks polish. That's not exactly a new issue for Sonic, but Forces appears to suffer heavily from it. Nothing about the gameplay (and visuals to an extent) looks like it was worked on for more than the bare minimum. At this point I'm even expecting the Modern Sonic levels to be a step back from Generations, which is not what I was expecting heading in (I figured that would be one of the few bright spots). I don't even care that Forces hasn't seemed to have had any effort put towards making it better than its predecessors, I'm far more concerned by the fact that Forces hasn't seemed to have had any effort put towards making it at least as good as what came before it.
 

RocknRola

Member
I don't think it lacks ambition - the very fact that we're getting an actual story featuring multiple characters and a new playable character with alternate gameplay and musical themes is a testament to that - I think it lacks polish. That's not exactly a new issue for Sonic, but Forces appears to suffer heavily from it. Nothing about the gameplay (and visuals to an extent) looks like it was worked on for more than the bare minimum. At this point I'm even expecting the Modern Sonic levels to be a step back from Generations, which is not what I was expecting heading in (I figured that would be one of the few bright spots). I don't even care that Forces hasn't seemed to have had any effort put towards making it better than its predecessors, I'm far more concerned by the fact that Forces hasn't seemed to have had any effort put towards making it at least as good as what came before it.

I'd also argue that ambition is being focused in the wrong places. More ambitious level design and gameplay features would have likely been the better way to go instead of focusing on a "story" per say.

Of course polish should be a must in either case. In all games really.
 

Axiology

Member
I'd like to be able to take a moderate view on this game like some of you guys, but it really looks like ass. I mean literally, in all the videos I've seen, I've barely seen anything that looked fun in any way.

This might end up being the worst mainline Sonic game they've ever released, outside of 06.
 

jman2050

Member
The level design is just a head scratcher. From what’s been shown it’s been mostly devoid of any sort of interesting gimmicks or platforming challenges. Generations was nothing like this.
 

Captain Fun

Neo Member
Not gonna lie, the boss gameplay was just pathetic. None of the avatar gameplay actually looks good. It's just floaty homing attack chains and bowling pin enemy formations everywhere.
 

Ristifer

Member
The level design is just a head scratcher. From what’s been shown it’s been mostly devoid of any sort of interesting gimmicks or platforming challenges. Generations was nothing like this.
This. Where are the platforming challenges? Are there any interesting badnik/enemy placements which would lead to any kind of strategy at all? Every video I've seen is just a line (or a circle) of enemies where you take your special weapon out and whip them. Sonic's attempts would at least be more challenging if he didn't have the homing attack. It's just... frustrating to see.

You run for about five seconds, see a line of enemies, boost or whip your way through them with absolute ease, and then jump one platform to get to the next linear segment. I would call it bad level design, but it's more lazy than bad. But in this case, they become synonymous with each other.
 

RubyEclipse

Sega of America
Why does it piss me off that they put in a ring cap? Sonic can't hold more than 100 rings at a time now lol

I can offer more insight into ring collection, because the 100-ring limit only exists in the lower difficulty mode of the game. In this mode, getting hit causes you to lose only 20 rings, so you can take a number of hits before running out – hence the 100 ring limitation.

In the other mode, you’ll lose all your rings when you get hit, but you can also collect as many as you can grab and go well into the hundreds, just like past Sonic games.

Hope this helps clarify – there’s even more to talk about in the future and further updates not yet reflected in this footage, so stay tuned!
 

Vidiot

Member
The UI is still WAYYYYYY too big and obnoxious :(

E: Man they other characters REALLY need to stop talking.

But, at the end of the IGN clip we see the Casino from before - still no enemies, still massive visual clutter. BUT, it seems like they're at least altering the physics from before. Seems like he's actually gaining speed and doesn't stick to the vertical wall as before.

347cddc2e606d0251a4101ce72b8ae78.gif

Not necessarily. Could just be this player was holding right while the player in the video where Sonic falls like a rock wasn't.
 

Sciz

Member
Hope this helps clarify – there’s even more to talk about in the future and further updates not yet reflected in this footage, so stay tuned!

You're a brave man, Ruby. Footage published three weeks from release not reflecting the final game does not fill me with confidence, however!
 

Gunstar Ikari

Unconfirmed Member
Mania was good, but I'd still rank it at the bottom of the classics. I think it is overrated. People saying the entire franchise should be handed to Christian Whitehead have bad business sense; Mania didn't sell crazy well, 2D Sonic does not have the mass appeal 3D does in the current market climate.

I don't know if I'd put Mania at the bottom of the Classic-styled games. (IMO the list of 2D Sonic games worse than CD, Classic or otherwise, isn't very large.) I do agree that it's overrated, though. Obviously, 75% remixed levels is lame, but also the level design feels..."oversaturated," for lack of a better word. Like they were laser-focused on making the biggest, baddest Sonic around, at the expense of making a game that flows well and doesn't overstay its welcome.

The game is polished and the core mechanics are still good, but every zone except Green Hill and the CD stages were better in their original games, which kind of defeats the point of Mania to me.

This looks fun to me. Not certain what all the over the top hyperbole is about. It looks like a Sonic game and the levels look fun. The create-a-character dudes are pretty much rocking the Sonic Colors wisp powers with a few extras and I remember when that game hit it completely flipped the opinion of Sonic games and was universally loved for "saving the franchise." Dont try to rewrite history on that one either in case you were only there for Generations and didn't have a Wii at the time. It happened and it was in reviews everywhere both here, magazines and from youtubers with nothing to gain or lose.

Anyhow, history lesson aside, I reiterate that it harkens back to Sonic Colors which was fun and in and of itself looks like its good fun. Definitely seems better than Boom or Lost World, and it seems especially close to Colors so win all the way around.

The opinion on Colors seems to get more divisive as time goes on, likely because Colors leans heavily on the floaty 2.5D platforming which people seem to like less and less.
 

shaowebb

Member
The opinion on Colors seems to get more divisive as time goes on, likely because Colors leans heavily on the floaty 2.5D platforming which people seem to like less and less.

Honestly I think the opinion on Colors changes over time for the same reason the opinion on Zelda games do. People are contrarian and try to seem more discerning and tasteful by being overly critical of good titles sometimes. Find a good title, hit it with a magnifying glass and find one insightful flaw as an "AH HAH!" moment to pull a "gotcha" on the fans. Its not like the games that get done this way are bad titles or even unfun. In fact, the better the title the more they get hit by these contrarians who want to find a thing to rattle on about as a way to show just how finely they look at details in order to seem as if they study games harder than others (to which hey they likely do). Thing is finding small flaws and then parading them around on signposts repeatedly doesn't make small flaws suddenly big or game ruining. The big flaws everyone spots and mentions so its not a real victory to hammer those around. Usually only terrible games get that treatment because it becomes a beatdown that everyone join in on to vent some gamer rage at an easy target.

Nitpicking of things like Colors, or Zelda or whatever other good title that was universally reviewed well and enjoyed openly by large masses is generally just a lot of contrarian attention seeking in hopes of seeming more intelligent than someone else IMO. Small flaws do not ruin a fun game in small quantities and Colors and many other titles that got "more divisive over time" are generally titles that only had small flaws in small quantities. They were good then and they're still good now. Slowly chopping away once the folks who played it are gone like that is a reason why publisher/public discourse is so toxic. Fans are very unfair and love a target that doesn't fight back...ie something once popular whose fanbase has now moved on that wont be around in mass to defraud overly critical hyperbole.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
It wasn't 90%. Also, most of the level design was cleverly mixed up in the first Act of each Zone and the second Act was often more or less brand new.

Adding Zip line in act two of Green Hill Zone or jelly in Chemical Plant zone doesn't make it "brand new."

The theme was the same and in later levels I didn't noticed any "new" elements and they all felt like the original levels.

I can offer more insight into ring collection, because the 100-ring limit only exists in the lower difficulty mode of the game. In this mode, getting hit causes you to lose only 20 rings, so you can take a number of hits before running out – hence the 100 ring limitation.

In the other mode, you’ll lose all your rings when you get hit, but you can also collect as many as you can grab and go well into the hundreds, just like past Sonic games.

Hope this helps clarify – there’s even more to talk about in the future and further updates not yet reflected in this footage, so stay tuned!

I see, probably should have made that more clearer in some of the video game footage as all we saw was the lower difficulty mode rather than the classic mode which led to a one sided view of the game.

I assume that we can freely switch between the mode as I rather play in classic mode.
 

Ristifer

Member
Mania was good, but I'd still rank it at the bottom of the classics. I think it is overrated. People saying the entire franchise should be handed to Christian Whitehead have bad business sense; Mania didn't sell crazy well, 2D Sonic does not have the mass appeal 3D does in the current market climate.
I'd still much rather have Taxman on classic games, that's for sure. And it wasn't his decision to not have a physical version of the game. Not sure how he has "bad business sense" in any case.

And if 2D Sonic doesn't have the appeal, then why the hell is Sonic Team force feeding it to us in this game with modern characters? Not just modern characters, but with Classic Sonic now thrown in as well. Generations at least had the distinction of being an anniversary game. This is supposed to set the tone for where Modern Sonic games are now, and they're doing this?
 

Yukinari

Member
I don't think it will be bad, just a meh 6

I keep saying it every thread but its gonna be even funnier when Mario Odyssey gets near perfect scores then a week later Forces comes out with like 6's and 7's.

Whoever is working on Forces has no passion for what theyre making and youre better off spending 20 dollars less and just buying Mania.
 

Sponge

Banned
Can we all just admit that they need to give Sonic to Nintendo?

No.

Give it to Christian Whitehead and the Mania team. Give them freedom to make a game with all new levels, and it would be incredible. Hell, I bet they could even make a Chao Garden if they tried. One of the few things from the Adventures games I think need to be salvaged.
 

Astral Dog

Member
Honestly I think the opinion on Colors changes over time for the same reason the opinion on Zelda games do. People are contrarian and try to seem more discerning and tasteful by being overly critical of good titles sometimes. Find a good title, hit it with a magnifying glass and find one insightful flaw as an "AH HAH!" moment to pull a "gotcha" on the fans. Its not like the games that get done this way are bad titles or even unfun. In fact, the better the title the more they get hit by these contrarians who want to find a thing to rattle on about as a way to show just how finely they look at details in order to seem as if they study games harder than others (to which hey they likely do). Thing is finding small flaws and then parading them around on signposts repeatedly doesn't make small flaws suddenly big or game ruining. The big flaws everyone spots and mentions so its not a real victory to hammer those around. Usually only terrible games get that treatment because it becomes a beatdown that everyone join in on to vent some gamer rage at an easy target.

Nitpicking of things like Colors, or Zelda or whatever other good title that was universally reviewed well and enjoyed openly by large masses is generally just a lot of contrarian attention seeking in hopes of seeming more intelligent than someone else IMO. Small flaws do not ruin a fun game in small quantities and Colors and many other titles that got "more divisive over time" are generally titles that only had small flaws in small quantities. They were good then and they're still good now. Slowly chopping away once the folks who played it are gone like that is a reason why publisher/public discourse is so toxic. Fans are very unfair and love a target that doesn't fight back...ie something once popular whose fanbase has now moved on that wont be around in mass to defraud overly critical hyperbole.
I don't think Colors was perfect,far from it. it just looks good next to the likes of Lost World, Black Knight, 2006 and Shadow.
 

Village

Member
No.

Give it to Christian Whitehead and the Mania team. Give them freedom to make a game with all new levels, and it would be incredible. Hell, I bet they could even make a Chao Garden if they tried. One of the few things from the Adventures games I think need to be salvaged.

They have shown an understanding of classic sonic and its trappings

Despite how you might feel about 3d sonic, the people who like those games have different expectations and what it to be different stuff. And not they not shown any understanding of that sort of thing ( that isn't an insult by the way), and I don't think its fair

They get classic sonic, they understand that, they can do that extremely well , its kind of fucked up if you thrust the entire franchise on some people who might only be really be interested in developing game wise, one part of it.

It be like if Sega found some guys to make, immaculate 3d games, they approved sonic adventure 3 that's how good they are , and you go " max taxman and 'nem left they should make classic sonic games" no. That's different design, in both mechanics and level designs and both vissually. Not just for the developers but for the expectations audiences.

Its the problem with forces now. People were hella disappointing when classic sonic showed in in the first teaser , they thought they were getting adventure era anime horseshit and they got a bunch of modern and classic shit shoved in. And the people who like modern, who might be more ok with adventure era sonic might not want all that and the classic era shit shoved in. And the classic era dudes have their game, and they would be pissed if the next mania had adventure era or modern era shit just shoved in there mechanically.

There other fans, and other parts of the fanbae than you with different expectations and to hold that over one developer seems completely unfair
 

Lijik

Member
The opinion on Colors seems to get more divisive as time goes on, likely because Colors leans heavily on the floaty 2.5D platforming which people seem to like less and less.

part of it is some people in these threads just want to loudly be a contrarian for the sake of it. keep an eye out in sonic forces threads for posters who will find whatever scrap they can to justify letting everyone know sonic mania wasnt that good actually even if it doesnt really make any sense to do so
 

shaowebb

Member
I don't think Colors was perfect,far from it. it just looks good next to the likes of Lost World, Black Knight, 2006 and Shadow.

Same. Its not perfect at all, but very good and very fun is all. I just think the recent divisiveness on it is more attributed to what I stated above than any major statement about what its quality levels actually were or are. If Sonic Forces makes it that far in enjoyment then I wont be dissatisfied. It could still go far beyond that but so far it seems like Colors and for that much its a darn good start and it makes me smile. I wont be disappointed if it at least hits that benchmark.

Still hope I got enough parts to make a Sally Acorn, Bunny Rabbot or Antoine. It'd be a nice sendoff since the characters finally retired with the comic deal ending with Archie after something like 2 decades.
 

mo60

Member
Oh god @ Infinite.

From: "This guy's faster than Sonic!"
to
"I'm gonna float here motionlessly while this guy repeatedly whips me in the face."

I almost expected him to blurt Knuckles' "OHNO!"

I think Infinite will be harder to fight on harder difficulties if there are any and I don't expect the first fight if that is the first fight against the guy to be that hard. There may also be additional phases to that fight.
 
God you guys are such a cancerous bunch. You make sonic stadium seem like normal people. As someone rather neutral about this game, I hope it does well just to piss you guys off. Ugh. Always rooting for the underdog
 

Davey Cakes

Member
God you guys are such a cancerous bunch. You make sonic stadium seem like normal people. As someone rather neutral about this game, I hope it does well just to piss you guys off. Ugh. Always rooting for the underdog
This is not the kind of underdog you root for.

Granted, we still have plenty of the game left to see.
 
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