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VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...

S

sholvaco

Neo Member
This article is pretty obviously a collection of rumors and speculations being thrown around here and at B3D.

Using the 68 GB/s number for memory bandwidth (literally came from someone at B3D who was merely speculating) the author assumes that MS went with the highest available JEDEC DDR3 spec (2133) which I find unlikely given how modestly spec'd the rest of machine is. Looking at Micron's spec sheet the highest density IC at that speed is 4 Gb which means they'd have to use 16 chips to make the rumored 8 GB pool. This would majorly affect board complexity and reduce reliability. In my opinion this is a non option.

It's likelier they'll go with 8 denser 8 Gb chips with DDR3-1866 or even DDR3-1600(L) spec which would put theoretical unified bandwidth at 50 - 60 GB/s. Using a separate faster pool (eDRAM) as a framebuffer mitigates the speed discrepancy as the GPU doesn't have to write back to the unified main RAM nor fetch from it for post-processing effects like with the rumored PS4 setup.

The article also fails to account for rumored "two additional graphics blocks" which in my opinion are the 2 radeon compute units attached to the CPU for GPGPU purposes (also rumored for PS4). According to rumors, both systems seem to be comprised of an AMD Jaguar based APU (CPU + tiny GPU) and a GPU integrated on the same die via differently configured custom memory controllers. As such their relative performance will be easier to compare than with previous generations of consoles IMO.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Reiko said:
I think games looking closer to CG is a big fucking leap.
Click to expand...

this. if early games (maybe "launch window" e3 showings) look like samaritan, or better, i'd say this is the biggest generation leap. we are finally entering the realm in which gaming looks near CG.

of course, as i get used to 720 and ps4 games in the coming years, my goal posts for what i expect will also change, but for now i expect to be VERY happy.

:)
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
thuway said:
Ding ding ding ding. Fanboys eat your heart yout.
Click to expand...

I'm still curious as to how this will work. I've been expecting and wanting parity for a long time and I think it would be the best thing for the industry but on paper it does seem like there is a gap, although not nearly as huge as some are making it out to be. Looking forward to hearing more from devs.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Jarmel said:
So Orbis is significantly better now?
Click to expand...

supposedly. there's a lot of "ahh, but have you haven't seen what's in my other pocket" fairy dust talk, of the kind we heard regarding the 360's eDRAM and the PS3's cell potential before bottlenecks and obtuse architecture took their toll, but we can only go on what we know.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
ghst said:
supposedly. there's a lot of "ahh, but have you haven't seen what's in my other pocket" of the kind we heard regarding the 360's eDRAM and the PS3's cell potential, but we can only go on what we know.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a lot of posturing without exact specs for PS4.
 
S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
thuway said:
Ding ding ding ding. Fanboys eat your heart yout.
Click to expand...

zd0ZzUS.jpg
 
C

charsace

Member
Reiko said:
It feels like 2005 again. My body is ready.
Click to expand...

The xbox had that big performance advantage so now everyone is hoping sony will release something that eventually is in a similar position. I don't understand why people are wishing for it and no one ever explains why they want it.
 
S

Spongebob

Banned
sholvaco said:
This article is pretty obviously a collection of rumors and speculations being thrown around here and at B3D.

Using the 68 GB/s number for memory bandwidth (literally came from someone at B3D who was merely speculating) the author assumes that MS went with the highest available JEDEC DDR3 spec (2133) which I find unlikely given how modestly spec'd the rest of machine is. Looking at Micron's spec sheet the highest density IC at that speed is 4 Gb which means they'd have to use 16 chips to make the rumored 8 GB pool. This would majorly affect board complexity and reduce reliability. In my opinion this is a non option.

It's likelier they'll go with 8 denser 8 Gb chips with DDR3-1866 or even DDR3-1600(L) spec which would put theoretical unified bandwidth at 50 - 60 GB/s. Using a separate faster pool (eDRAM) as a framebuffer mitigates the speed discrepancy as the GPU doesn't have to write back to the unified main RAM nor fetch from it for post-processing effects like with the rumored PS4 setup.

The article also fails to account for rumored "two additional graphics blocks" which in my opinion are the 2 radeon compute units attached to the CPU for GPGPU purposes (also rumored for PS4). According to rumors, both systems seem to be comprised of an AMD Jaguar based APU (CPU + tiny GPU) and a GPU integrated on the same die via differently configured custom memory controllers. As such their relative performance will be easier to compare than with previous generations of consoles IMO.
Click to expand...

Lherre indirectly confrimed all of this so I don't agree with you.

Also the additional graphic blocks are those purple accelerators that you can see on the diagram.

aegies said:
It doesn't match the devkits.
Click to expand...

No offence man, but no magic optimization is going to make a 12CU@800MHz GPU perform toe-to-toe with the best GPUs out there.

Going to be brutal come e3 when people can't even tell the difference between current gen games their and next-gen counterparts.
 
A

Ashes

Banned
I know I have been saying Microsoft make the superior development software, and I still hold that this is true, but thinking about it, Ps3 was complex as fuck, and still, third party devs, some of them made it sing, and/or it was a wash or not that big a difference in a lot of cases..

Heck the the ps3 had a super cell, but a middling gpu, whereas the x360 had the top gpu of the day, and to this day, people say the Xenos> RSX.

So if with better or slightly better gpu hardware, and with the best software development tools, and with very simple architecture, devs produced only slightly better performance, should we really be thinking that they will overcome the supposed gulf that exists now?
With the ps4 being simpler, and with greater bandwidth and more gpu oompth?

Worth thinking about.

Having said that, this feels like the start of last generation where a lot of people put the ps3 ahead of x360.... Where in the end only first party trully excelled beyond their competitors and third party complained a fair bit with the ps3.
 
N

nasos_333

Member
Snubbers said:
HDMI IN?
NUI Always Present?

I think the 3Gb / 2 Cores is also going to pan out to be true :(

I so desperately wanted Durango to be within 10% or so of Orbis, but even assuming EDRAM offsets enought of the RAM Bandwidth to allow that to occur, the reserved resources plus the 50% deficiency in GPU CU's means that I can't see how practically we aren't going to have considerably different render targets.. :( (the video/audio blocks mean crapola, and the DME or whatever it is just isn't going to be the 'daves insanity sauce' required to gain back that lost ground.

The issue I have is Sony's dire approach to software on the PS3, it took me 4 hours to get GT5 installed from scratch again, not to mention the 2 hours trying to fix error 8002f281 which resulted in having to reformat the HDD etc.. But Vita shows that they are improving rapidly.. so perhaps I can have faith that Orbis is going to be choice for most gamers.

I can't imagine too many people on here sticking with MS when the face-offs are ridiculously in favour of Orbis.. And if Sony get XGC and other core OS features right (like in-game music selection etc) then I'm happy with that..

The thing with all this set top box crap is that it only works in a subset of regions, and you are really trying to overcome things like iPADs in delivering content to people in the front room, which has the added benefit of having it's own screen.. if my missus popped up facebook stuff while I'm watching Formula 1, or any other overlaid shit, I'd throw the thing out the window.. ;)
Click to expand...

So Orbis is confirmed to be more than 10x stronger than Durango ?
 
A

aegies

Member
grimshawish said:
Thats a devkit aegies. I didn't realise that most of your speculation was based on devkit specs.
Click to expand...

My reply was to a poster asking if his specific PC was going to be enough for the coming generation. It's not just about the devkits, though they are indicative. Developers are excited. They want to talk. And they have been in ways that I can't in good faith publish or talk about publicly. I'll just say that you've seen next gen games already, and developers aren't putting all that effort in for the PC version. That's what they think they can do by launch-ish. Will every game look like that? No, because a lot of games will be ports or projects moved from current gen to next-gen.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
charsace said:
The xbox had that big performance advantage so now everyone is hoping sony will release something that eventually is in a similar position. I don't understand why people are wishing for it and no one ever explains why they want it.
Click to expand...

console wars aside, maybe they just want uber powerful consoles? not saying that durango wont be powerful, just that if it is, it would be nice to have something still significantly MORE POWERFUL.
 
G

grimshawish

Banned
Reiko said:
ibcUynCutGtfED.gif
Click to expand...

Am fine with this being next gen. They don't look like CGI though.
Nor do I think these games will have this perfect quality outside of their controlled demos.

There are still things holding the consoles back.
Just cause a dev can make something doesn't make it possible for the consoles to run it.
 
J

Jadedx

Banned
aegies said:
Before I was set straight about the teraflop comparison not working, yes. You need very powerful PC hardware to do what Durango (and Orbis) are doing. In fact, the devkits for Orbis and Durango are very, very similar.



You don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...
One more question for you Aegies, Does the secret sauce add anymore flops?


And some general questions for anyone else.

What about the other chips in the roadmap? The 360 cpu and the second always on processor?
Does the Data Move Engine only help with the ram bandwidth or does it do anything else?
What would the likely price be? can they make a profit from launch?
 
T

thuway

Member
You people have no idea what you are in for. I can garuntee you both systems will be beasts at what they do. However they will excel in certain areas. I keep saying this again-and-again-and-again.
 
D

daveo42

Banned
Ashes1396 said:
I know I have been saying Microsoft make the superior development software, and I still hold that this is true, but thinking about it, Ps3 was complex as fuck, and still, third party devs, a lot of them made it sing, and/or it was a wash or not that big a difference....

Heck the the ps3 had a super cell, but a middling gpu, whereas the x360 had the top gpu of the day, and to this day, people say the Xenos> RSX.

So if with better or slightly better gpu hardware, and with the best software development tools, and with very simple architecture, devs produced only slightly better performance, should we really be thinking that they will overcome the supposed gulf that exists now?
With the ps4 being simpler, and with greater bandwidth and more gpu oompth?

Worth thinking about.

Having said that, this feels like the start of last generation where a lot of people put the ps3 ahead of x360.... Where in the end only first party trully excelled beyond their competitors and third party struggled.
Click to expand...

Didn't Naughty Dog have a lot to do with making much better dev tools for the PS3 which were then adopted by Sony or am I wrong on this point?
 
C

charsace

Member
grimshawish said:
Thats a devkit aegies. I didn't realise that most of your speculation was based on devkit specs.
Click to expand...

Do you think MS and Sony would send out dev kits that way over shoot what they are aiming for with their systems? Do you really think these companies work like that?

"Hey guys, start making games on these dev kits that won't look or run nearly as well on our console!"

That would be sound business sense indeed.
 
S

specialguy

Banned
aegies said:
I believe these are accurate, though, again, the extra hardware they don't explain will play a major part in what Durango does. I've also heard from reliable sources that the GPU CUs are super-efficient, with an aim for almost 100 percent usage at all times. The 360 hit around 60 percent, I understand. Like I've said previously, context is going to be really important for both systems.
Click to expand...

What extra hardware are you reffering too?

I think the extra hardware is

1. Audio chip (its on diagram)
2. DMA engine (ditto). On B3D someone say this is to copy memory from DDR3 to ESRAM faster for tiling.
3. ??? (something "fixed function", indications are probably minor)

Which of the 3 exactly is the wonder chip, and how? I dont really see it.
 
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