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Was Rare's poor productivity a deciding factor in Nintendo choosing to let them go?
- Thread starter Valjean Lafitte
- Start date
Square2015
Member
Out of mercy, if Micro$oft has a heart.
Why did the Stampers want to move on from videogames so bad? Their company was producing some quality titles, they obviously were very skilled at what they did.
Remember this?
It gives a good idea of their (prior) success (data as of Jan 2007)
Blue=SNES
Yellow=GB
Green=N64
Pink=GBC
Purple=GC
Aquamarine=GBA
Lime green=XB/360
Silver=DS
Shouldn't the pink "Mickey's Speedway USA" be "Mickey's Racing Adventure"?
A Black Falcon
Member
No, there were two GBC Mickey racing games.
Looking at that list though, Sabre Wulf really is a pretty good game. It's too bad it didn't sell at all.
It would be nice to see a complete version of that list with Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise, Viva Pinata DS, and Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts added to it. I don't imagine we'll ever know Jetpack Refueled sales (digital only game).
SleepMachine
Neo Member
Poor Blast Corps. That game was awesome. Europe's numbers are even more horrible.
Total Units
North America: 0.39m 55.2%
+ Europe: 0.09m 12.9%
+ Japan: 0.17m 24.1%
+ Rest of the World: 0.06m 7.8%
= Global 0.71m
Ah, yes, I missed it higher up.
RockmanWhore
Member
Damn, this list makes me feel sad and nostalgic, I loved Rareware's N64 games so much, I remember waiting forever for their Gamecube games, and then they release Starfox Adventure, that sucks. I was still hyped for a new Banjo or a new Perfect Dark, that Donkey Kong Racing sounded great to me, and DKR is still my favourite kart racer ever, and then bam, they're sold to MS 
Their next games were all disapointing, they did some nice games, but it wasn't the same any more. I really like Banjo Nuts and Bolts, but it bombed so hard, we'll never see another game like that again. Then they showed nothing on the Xbox One reveal, I hope they'll come back with great games some days :-(
Their next games were all disapointing, they did some nice games, but it wasn't the same any more. I really like Banjo Nuts and Bolts, but it bombed so hard, we'll never see another game like that again. Then they showed nothing on the Xbox One reveal, I hope they'll come back with great games some days :-(
IrishNinja
Member
poor Rare..their N64 output was amazing. only got to play Blast Corps earlier this year but holy crap what a gem i missed out on, so much fun
eh, wasn't N64 kinda dead in the water by then? Looming GC, with a desire to minimize post-launch drought which plagued its predecessor, i think that's a bit've hard sell there (as much as idve liked to see those 3 localized)
eh, wasn't N64 kinda dead in the water by then? Looming GC, with a desire to minimize post-launch drought which plagued its predecessor, i think that's a bit've hard sell there (as much as idve liked to see those 3 localized)
The_Endgamer
Member
www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-08-who-killed-rare
-Always worth a good read in times of woe.
Surely if Rare started making handheld games again like a new Conker game for 3DS that'd surely get their staff working on something half decent and it'd probably get a pretty decent amount of sales too without impacting their 'main studio' developing god knows what. I mean, why are they only stuck doing Kinect games? Surely Viva Pinata showed they still have talent waiting...
Such a waste to have those glorious IP's wasted and in KI's case degraded into a F2P game... ugh.
-Always worth a good read in times of woe.
Surely if Rare started making handheld games again like a new Conker game for 3DS that'd surely get their staff working on something half decent and it'd probably get a pretty decent amount of sales too without impacting their 'main studio' developing god knows what. I mean, why are they only stuck doing Kinect games? Surely Viva Pinata showed they still have talent waiting...
Such a waste to have those glorious IP's wasted and in KI's case degraded into a F2P game... ugh.
scytheavatar
Member
The fact that their company was locked in producing games for Nintendo probably played a big part; at the time of them selling Rare was essentially carrying the N64 by themselves, and the landscape for the Gamecube looked barely better.
Thanks for the reply.
I'm curious what they are doing now, wikipedia basically says nothing.
I found this useless interview: http://www.p4rgaming.com/exclusive-interview-with-tim-and-chris-stamper/
Riky
$MSFT
Maybe Nintendo just didn't want to spend another $300 million? Probably that simple.
Also a lot of people seem to overlook the fact when they say Microsoft changed Rare that they purchased them to make Nintendo like games. Last gen Nintendo's biggest game was Wii Sports, so Rare made Kinect Sports.
Also a lot of people seem to overlook the fact when they say Microsoft changed Rare that they purchased them to make Nintendo like games. Last gen Nintendo's biggest game was Wii Sports, so Rare made Kinect Sports.
what?? what made up fantasy land did you pull this from?
the stampers were looking to retire. period. that's why they sold their shares.
retire and get even more filthy rich. it's pretty simple.
they stuck around a little bit longer in the buyout just to oversee the transition. then they left.
as for the original question; nintendo sold their 49% share because another hardware manufacturer came to own 51% of the same company. it didn't make sense to keep their 49%, so they made like bank robbers and sold their share for a ridiculous sum.
it's that simply, guys. no 'ulterior motives'. no fanboy 'backstabbing'. no 'stealing our games!!1" bullshit. it was simple business.
you are my rival. you now own more of a company i've worked closely with for years. This will jeopardise exclusivity to my products. here, by my share and let's call it a day.
You imply that they left voluntarily. Which is as much the case as Mark Betteridge leaving his position voluntarily. Rare Ltd. was managed pretty badly as evidenced by various anonymous reports and the delays/cancellations during the Xbox era.
scytheavatar
Member
There's being rich and there's also being richer; the Stampers wouldn't have sold Rare if there's potential in the company to grow and for them to make even more money selling them later. The fact that Rare is locked to Nintendo already limits their potential for growth greatly.
Coreda
Member
Remember this?
It gives a good idea of their (prior) success (data as of Jan 2007)
Blue=SNES
Yellow=GB
Green=N64
Pink=GBC
Purple=GC
Aquamarine=GBA
Lime green=XB/360
Silver=DS
What on earth? There was a Perfect Dark for GBC?
When Rare became a "second party", Nintendo initially only bought around 10% of the company, not 49%. Every time the Stampers needed more money, they sold a few more percentage points to Nintendo. Eventually the Stampers ended up having sold 49%.
The Stampers needed another hit of cash, but they didn't want to sell 2% of the company and become "minority shareholders" in a company that was not owned by them. Rare's stock price was at an all-time high, so they decided it was time to cash out.
Nintendo had been willing to spend a few thousand here, a few thousand there, but they weren't willing to spend $500 million all-at-once. They would rather gain $500 million all-at-once. Nintendo asked the Stampers to find a new buyer.
Microsoft was willing to buy, but they didn't want to become partners with Nintendo, so Nintendo sold their 49% back to the Stampers on credit, and the Stampers sold the whole thing to Microsoft.
Want to know something painful? Nintendo actually owned all of Rare's IPs (the ones created while they were together). If you're aware of some games that claimed to be owned by Rare, those are really just a lie. Nintendo owned a completely different company that was also called Rare, and that company owned any Rare IP that wasn't owned by Nintendo directly.
When Rare was packing up to leave, Nintendo sold them a rights package containing some specific IPs that the Stampers wanted to own. NOA did this because Arakawa/Lincoln and the Stampers are buddies. That's why, for example, Nintendo owns Krystal (a character Rare created for a Starfox game), while Rare owns Conker (a character Rare created for a Donkey Kong game). There was no ruleset for the divorce, NOA and Rare just worked it out like gentlemen.
That's why they remained close enough to work on handheld games.
Damn. This is absolutely fascinating.
Massive bomb? It sold close to a million with hardly any marketing because Nintendo refused to market it. If it didn't meet Nintendo's sales expectations, then it's no one's fault but their own. Plus, Nintendo wouldn't even publish it in Europe. Rare had to reach out to THQ for that.
RobotRocker
Member
Nintendo Europe cancelled CBFD only three weeks before it was due out, while carts were manufactured so Rare had to strike a quick deal with THQ to get the game out in a limited run which also ended up pushing up the RRP of the game.
I'd imagine that lack of faith would have pissed off the Stampers enough on top of them wanting to cash out to really push Nintendo into saying "Buy us or we find someone else".
Nintendo did market it (there were ads and everything), just not inside of Nintendo Power.
There was also the fact that it came out near the end of the N64's run. The N64 was essentially dead when it came out in 2001. The next new and notable game for the N64 after that point was THPS3, in 2002.
Rajack
Member
Yep. I love insider stuff like this.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Where is Banjo-Kazooie Gruntys Revenge?Remember this?
It gives a good idea of their (prior) success (data as of Jan 2007)
Blue=SNES
Yellow=GB
Green=N64
Pink=GBC
Purple=GC
Aquamarine=GBA
Lime green=XB/360
Silver=DS
EDIT: Ah, saw it, just Gruntys Revenge
Excellent post that sums up the whole story.
thesuperfunk
Member
Doesn't make sense when Nintendo always seemed to favour the quality over quantity route.
tkscz
Member
Those aren't really horrible numbers (except for the Europe ones) for the time. Games didn't come anywhere near the millions it cost today to make. Probably the mid 100,000s. A game could sell less than 500,000 units and profit back then. Those were the days.
ips are soooo important for nintendo. I still dont understand how they let them go. You are not throwing away your future because they are your "friends". Next time are they going to give metroid if someome ask for it?
I read once that iwata wanted to keep the banjo ip at the time. But i dont know if that is true...
I read once that iwata wanted to keep the banjo ip at the time. But i dont know if that is true...
Doctor Decimate
Member
Weren't a great number of those games delayed?
Wind's Howling
Member
Remember this?
It gives a good idea of their (prior) success (data as of Jan 2007)
It pains me to see that by then Kameo only sold 270.000 copies.
Such a wonderful game.
NintenDOMG
Member
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
I'm surprised to see some of these games selling >500k.
I always thought Blast Corps was a million seller. I didn't know it was probably one of Rare's earliest, Nintendo-exclusive "flops".
I loved the game. Platinum medals EVERYWHERE. I loved the fucking FUCK outta that game. I would love a sequel on Wii U, or at least 3DS. Nintendo does own the IP if I remember correctly, right?
Shotgun Kiss
Member
As saddened by I am with the way things turned out, I think Nintendo made the right move. The last *massive* seller they released was Donkey Kong 64, 3 years prior to the buyout. Perfect Dark sold well, but not as well as I'm sure they hoped, as it's numbers pale in comparison to Goldeneye.
That $377 million is probably a key factor in Nintendo reinventing their image and target demographic with the Wii.
That $377 million is probably a key factor in Nintendo reinventing their image and target demographic with the Wii.
I think the deciding factor was that Chris Stamper, Tim Stamper, Howard Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa were all leaving at pretty much the same time and Iwata was just taking control. Rare was less it's leadership team and its two biggest supporters at NOA and NCL was also transitioning its leadership.
Diddy Kong
Banned
I've read this before too. I wish Ninty kept Banjo
Dark Octave
Banned
I believe it was a lack of quality, not quantity that bit them in the ass at the end.
RobotRocker
Member
Rare was God tier in the 16-bit days - DKC series was unmatched, technically. Transferring the KI arcarde experience to SNES was just incredible, and I enjoyed Killer Cuts, too. Need I mention their excellence on the N64? They were a great assest and it's a shame we never saw their true potential with Nintendo's influence. I'm curious to know the true story behind the separation.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I do think Rare's output and quality dropped steadily over time, regardless of other factors.
That list of games year-by-year doesn't account for how long each of those took to make. And how often they were delayed. Remember, this was when game development was simpler and required smaller teams for most AAA games. Back in the day, I distinctly remember Rare having a reputation as a near-vaporware game maker, who seemed to take years to make a game with little proof it really existed.
Donkey Kong 64 was pitched as a huge critical title and it didn't turn out so well.
That said, I do think Nintendo suffered for not retaining Perfect Dark in some form. With the direction the game industry has gone in the west, that IP could have done a lot for them by now.
That list of games year-by-year doesn't account for how long each of those took to make. And how often they were delayed. Remember, this was when game development was simpler and required smaller teams for most AAA games. Back in the day, I distinctly remember Rare having a reputation as a near-vaporware game maker, who seemed to take years to make a game with little proof it really existed.
Donkey Kong 64 was pitched as a huge critical title and it didn't turn out so well.
That said, I do think Nintendo suffered for not retaining Perfect Dark in some form. With the direction the game industry has gone in the west, that IP could have done a lot for them by now.
Very interesting.
really cool stuff, but do you have a source on this?
it's not because i don't believe you, because i do, i'm just curious.
I've read this before too. I wish Ninty kept Banjo
Well, we need someone to confirm this. Also, i didnt believe in the past the history of rareware owning the games they made with nintendo. I mean, that didnt make sense. I think that i also read about nintendo owning them and giving/selling them to rareware a lot ago.
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