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Killer is Dead 'can fuck off into space' - Matt Lees talks about "Gigolo mode"

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wyrdwad

XSEED Localization Specialist
I agree that my statement may be premature but saying that there are characterized women in comparison makes it sound like the women in these missions are not.

It's not that they're uncharacterized, but more that they're... outside of the game's main storyline, I guess? Or on the fringes of it, at the very least. Mondo seems to have a relatively healthy aversion to dating coworkers or... you know... execution targets (though he's not above romancing clients, but that's a whole other story!), so in his "off hours," he seeks companionship elsewhere.

So yeah, they're not as well-developed as the main cast, but they are as well-developed as is appropriate, considering that Gigolo Mode is essentially just a quick peek into Mondo's dating life outside of his day job.

Think of it kind of like bringing a camera crew to a date you arranged on OKCupid. ;)

-Tom
 

Zen

Banned
Seems like he's experiencing culture hock with the influence of those weird dating bars in Japan.

And he's basing the criteria by which Suda is no longer a good game designer or w/e on his emotional reaction to something completely divorced from mechanics. It would be like saying that David Jaffe wasn't a good game designer because he included the Sex QTE in God of War.
 
Are most of them American? I mean, I live in Europe and I don't know anyone who... cares about this stuff.

I know in America people go crazy over a nipple on tv though, so that's why I'm wondering.
America is probably the worst when it comes to this. No problems showing violence on TV, but god forbid they don't censor nudity. 'Murica
 
Walk_n_Walk_out.gif
 

Gun Animal

Member
I watched the video, and here’s my reply. I haven’t read the entirely of the thread yet, so please excuse my if I’ve missed something already written here! Also keep in mind this is my personal opinion, and is in no way reflective of XSEED Games, my employer.

Wow, even though it's just your personal opinion it's great to see this kind of online presence from a publisher. I'd never heard of XSEED until Killer is Dead, but you guys are sure on my radar now. Hope you guys do more business with Grasshopper in the future, too! edit:
It's not that they're uncharacterized, but more that they're... outside of the game's main storyline, I guess? Or on the fringes of it, at the very least. Mondo seems to have a relatively healthy aversion to dating coworkers or... you know... execution targets (though he's not above romancing clients, but that's a whole other story!), so in his "off hours," he seeks companionship elsewhere.

Wow, just loving you guys right now.
 
My biggest issue with this video is that I'm supposed to take it on faith that this whole mode is really so deplorable without playing, or even really seeing it, for myself. My only reaction is "Oh, really? Okay..." as opposed to immediate outrage at not actually seeing the thing itself in action.

What he describes just sounds like standard Japanese titillation. It's dumb and childish but hardly something to call out the cruisers for. Again, that's only going off his description.
 
Sorry, but cultural relativism only goes so far. Saying something is a different culture and thus not bound by what we consider to be morals or ethics only really reaches so far. If a culture farts every time they meet a new person and we consider it rude but it's polite in their culture then yeah, you could claim cultural relativism.

If a culture's view on mental illness is stuck in the 1600s, where these people are mistreated and misdiagnosed thanks to willful ignorance, and problems arise in their society due to their appalling mishandling or downright disgraceful treatment then how far does "well, it's just how they view mental illness" go?

To make a clearer comparison to the topic, how much cultural relativism can you claim against Japan's enormous sexual molestation/rape problem? That's just how they are, right? You can't really call them out for having awful views regarding this topic, right?

I think you missed the entire point of cultural relativism.
 
you do realize that the rape statistic in japan has gone down year over year right?
And the rape statistic is WAY higher in the United States!

Any sort of research into this topic will easily explain why this is.

The stigma associated, culturally, with rape and sex crimes in Japan has something to do with this. The statistics are hard to trust mainly due to the fact that so much sex crime is unreported. Women are treated as impure or tainted, having sullied the family's name or honor and other such things. Seems a bit archaic, but it's shocking the extent to which this is true. Japan has moved forward culturally in many ways but also, as can be seen in many aspects of their society, have remained steadfast to traditions that are downright deplorable.

Their percentage is lower because most women don't report these crimes. Conversely, America's percentage is up because as of the past couple years we have tried moving away from the stigma attached to sexual assault and rape victims and thus more people are reporting these crimes than before. But it still happens unfortunately. It took my ex 3 years to come forward and tell me about her rape. A rape that she did not report to the police.

Beyond that, we are looking at two different population levels.

And even beyond that, Japan getting a 30/100 on sex crimes while USA gets a 10/100 doesn't mean Japan still isn't failing. It's silly to point out that someone else is doing something worse when the object of discussion is still doing terribly. It doesn't make them not terrible.
 

Kikujiro

Member
the western world will never understand Japanese morals.

THEY [JAPAN] DON'T SEE THIS STUFF AS A BIG DEAL.
Western culture does not understand.
Meanwhile, western game design generally parades violence and no one gives two fucks.

But when the Japanese, god forbid, portrays some sexual element into their games, they are crucified?


ya'll are prude and Matt Less is taking the game way too seriously.

Suda 51 keep making weird games.
This industry would be boring without developers like you.

I'm sorry to call you out, but this is a silly "I'm an expert" post.
Saying Suda51 games are part of Japanese morals is so wrong, it's like saying that RoboGheisa is part of Japanese morals.

Suda51 are B-movie works for people who enjoy that kind of games (like people enjoy B-movies), it has nothing to do with morals and culture, they are the same everywhere in the world: blood+sex+strange shit.
 
Then please explain it to me, as I think I have quite a decent grasp on what it is, just disagree with most on how far it extends.

The point is how far it extends. You can't just claim cultural relativism for things you personally find inoffensive, but draw the line at what you think is wrong. That's just disagreeing with it. The point is that no one culture's moral code is any better than anyone else's. You can disagree with another culture's moral code, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're "wrong", no matter how strongly you disagree with whatever they do or don't do. If you can't accept that, you don't agree with cultural relativism at all.
 
Urgh.... no it isn't, if anything that was Bayonetta. If the combat is anyway like suda games then it'll be considered mediocre at best.

Nah, the gameplay looks incredibly solid this time round. In past games, it became pretty obvious early on that the gameplay was shallow and not as great as we'd like or hope, that doesn't appear to be the case here.

Bayo2 will be the real successor, but this will do in the interim/for those who don't have a Wii U.
 
The point is how far it extends. You can't just claim cultural relativism for things you personally find inoffensive, but draw the line at what you think is wrong. That's just disagreeing with it. The point is that no one culture's moral code is any better than anyone else's. You can disagree with another culture's moral code, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're "wrong", no matter how strongly you disagree with whatever they do or don't do. If you can't accept that, you don't agree with cultural relativism at all.

Hrm. Fair enough. If we're going by that, then I don't agree with cultural relativism at all.
 

CmdBash

Member
just another uninformed 'game journalist' creating a controversial video to get clicks. I still don't see why people have no problem with the extreme amount of violence we see in all games, but when a gameplay mechanic is seen as 'sexualised', they go crazy and scream out sexism.
 

rvy

Banned
I watched the video, and here’s my reply. I haven’t read the entirely of the thread yet, so please excuse my if I’ve missed something already written here! Also keep in mind this is my personal opinion, and is in no way reflective of XSEED Games, my employer.

- "You seduce women in a bar using X-Ray glasses."
Untrue. Mondo is modeled after James Bond ("Mondo" and "Bond" sound the same in Japanese), and his escapades with women were meant to be a reflection of the "man every woman wants" thing. Basically, as you progress through the game, women will call Mondo and beg for a date. You can go on these dates in locations that vary depending on the girl, not just bars, and yeah, you do what a dude who has only one thing on his mind does (not saying every dude, just that kind of dude) and stare at her a hell of a lot. The glasses are not used to seduce; they're used in a couple of ways, including as 'x-ray' glasses and to also look inside of her heart and figure out her likes and dislikes so you can give her gifts that she likes. It’s worth noting you can get by just fine without them.

- "She's referred to as a 'target'"
This is a half-truth. This is not a game where Mondo finds a chick and literally beelines towards her and relentlessly hits on her. The entire game is presented on a world map of sorts, and you scroll through various locations where you choose your missions. 'Targets' are the character you are directly interacting with for said mission, and it is used to describe both the girls in Gigolo Mode as well as your targets of execution in story mode. It's not exclusively to the women as the video makes it sound and shouldn’t be interpreted in a negative light.

- "By look at her breasts and crotch, she will, of course, like you more."
Worded incorrectly. It's true that you're basically ogling your date while she isn't looking, but if she catches you, she'll be hella pissed off. There's a meter on the right that's indicative of her mood, and if you stare too much, you obviously won't be having a very good date by the end. Some of these endings are pretty hilarious, and if you’re not into this whole Gigolo Mode thing, you might find them to be sweet justice.

- "If you are successful at checking out her nips, you gain the ability to use gigolo glasses."
Incorrect. Again, the glasses are unlockable or available as pre-order DLC.

- "ludicrously proportioned"
As a female, I'll say that's actually wrong as well. I actually changed the measurements myself in the English version to be a more accruate and proportionate reflection of their character models, since I know a thing or two about female measurements.

- "The more you stare at this woman's bosoms, the more you learn what her favorite things are"
Incorrect. The gigolo glasses DO tell you the things that she likes whether you decide to stare at her lingerie or not (hell, you can look to the side if you're uncomfortable for that part). You can also get a good idea of what each girl likes based on, well, them. Obviously a girl like Koharu, who is presented as very demure, is probably not going to like a flashy watch, and obviously a go-getter like Natalia isn't going to have any interest in a cute baby doll as a gift. Gift-giving is so ridiculously over-the-top like the rest of the game, and it's silly as all get-out. Don’t take it seriously, have fun with it.

- "But the selection of things that these women like is downright offensive."
Flowers - Not sure about how offensive giving a single red rose to a girl is. Cliche, yes, but hardly offensive.
Booze - You buy her a drink, it’s presented in the same manner as other gifts. You can give a Schnapps bottle as a gift though, but I don’t know, booze is a pretty sweet gift.
Money- INCORRECT, COMPLETELY INCORRECT. You can give a commemorative gold coin, and it does not translate to cash. You DO NOT give cash to your dates as gifts. I cannot believe how inaccurate this is.
Worth noting that other gifts are like a Japanese fan, chewing gum, or a necklace. This video pulls pulls out the ones he finds offensive and sort of abstracts them.

- "They give you a present"
True, but he's making it sound like a trade, like, “Hey, thanks for the sex, here’s something in exchange.” The girls declare that they made a gift exclusively for you, which can be pretty interesting items. It's silly, but I interpreted Natalia as one badass chick when she made me a Drill Arm. Like, a complex device you attatch to your mechanical arm to bust walls and fight enemies. Coooooool.


- "Not about waving a flag of gender equality"
I have to admit, I hate this kind of card being pulled. Not every damn game has to be politically correct. This game actually does have characterized women outside of Gigolo Mode, including your boss whom you respect because she's business-smart and no-nonsense, your upbeat assistant, an elegant, mysterious woman, as well as targets for execution and clients who hire you to do the executing during story mode. In fact, more women are in story mode than in Gigolo Mode.

This is also Mondo’s story, a guy designed to be charismatic who cuts off heads and travels the world (and the moon, the freaking moon) for a living and meets beautiful women in the process. It’s not meant to be a politically correct game and doesn’t even try to pretend it is, which, I think, is far more offensive. And since I’ve played quite a few SUDA 51 games, I can say he’s never the type to be that politically correct in any of his work anyway- this game is, completely, a SUDA title. Is it kind of stupid? Yeah, it definitely is. You’ll either laugh at it or feel slightly uncomfortable; I was the former, as, like with anything else in a game that has tiger tattoos coming to life and unicorns and a Hansel and Gretel/Alice in Wonderland house, I noticed it was completely ridiculous. Purposefully so.

This video also doesn’t note that these missions, while a chance to gather unique and useful gifts, is completely optional. If you don’t like it and just want to play through the story? You can do that, it’s no problem. The story itself is high action, fast and furious, and full of unlockable abilities and twists and turns that do not ever require you to go on dates or try to ‘get lucky’.

I’m not going to say it’s wrong to be offended by it, but I also think he was giving misinformation and also taking it way too seriously, especially when he had some of the context of the game to go off of.

- "ludicrously proportioned"
As a female, I'll say that's actually wrong as well. I actually changed the measurements myself in the English version to be a more accruate and proportionate reflection of their character models, since I know a thing or two about female measurements.

57523-Ice-cube-Chris-tucker-damn-Fri-cQEX.gif


These pseudo-journalists make me all fuzzy and warm inside. Especially when they whine about feminism in vidya,

Matt Lees, please fuck off to space. Glorious Suda.
 

Zoggy

Member
I don't see the "satirical commentary on society" or "perversion of tropes" angle either. If he is going for that angle, he's handling it with an incredible lack of tact, but maybe thats the point?

anyways, I was never interested in this game so take this with a grain of salt.
 

Ramenman

Member
Meh. Suda being questionned on "sexism" every time he releases a game is like Tarantino being questionned on "violence" when he releases a movie.

It's part of the style. Now you can still find it offensive, but don't act surprised everytime.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, since Suda's games are *always* clearly whacky (and in a billion more ways than just "there's a sexy girl"), I find it way less annoying seeing this portrayal of women here, than in games or movies that opt for a more realistic treatment. This is where it can disturb me. In a game about some alien stealing the moon while cutting his fingernails or whatever something, I don't really care.
 

bootski

Member
ive read through a bit of the arguments myself and agree that it'd be a shame to judge the whole game by the one aspect of it. but goddamn that one aspect is terrifyingly creepy and gross. for those guys talking about how it's shit you do at a bar, well, i'm not sure what to say about that.

take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IdJTqn5EVo
 

deli2000

Member
ive read through a bit of the arguments myself and agree that it'd be a shame to judge the whole game by the one aspect of it. but goddamn that one aspect is terrifyingly creepy and gross. for those guys talking about how it's shit you do at a bar, well, i'm not sure what to say about that.

take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IdJTqn5EVo

Wow, that's creepy. Never mind the sexism argument. That's just fucking creepy.

The random moans as you stare as well, really gross.
 

Erethian

Member
I love how most people in the west complain over sex in games yet they have no problem with violence.

If you conveniently forget the response from a wide array of people in the gaming media to E3 last year, then sure. When the level of violence in games was a major topic of discussion.

And those times when the general population react to the level of violence in games.
 

abadguy

Banned
ive read through a bit of the arguments myself and agree that it'd be a shame to judge the whole game by the one aspect of it. but goddamn that one aspect is terrifyingly creepy and gross. for those guys talking about how it's shit you do at a bar, well, i'm not sure what to say about that.

take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IdJTqn5EVo

If by "creepy" you mean silly then yeah it's "creepy" alright. Seriously i was expecting something more disturbing than a guy with X-ray specs looking at a woman in her undies.

I've got to say that this is the first time I have seen anything from his guy and my impressions, after watching and reading this thread, are that he is a prick who will do anything for attention. There are real issues of women being being treated badly but faux controversy nonsense like this helps nothing. This guy is no better than Jack Thompson.

Most of these so called "game journalists" these days are like that, especially the ones from Shitaku and this easily could have come from there. These people are full of shit, plain and simple and should be called out as such.

This is complete and utter bullshit. There are discussions about video game violence almost everytime a big game comes out.

No actually it's not bullshit. People in the US are often more uncomfortable with sex than they are with violence and it's not just games.
 
I've got to say that this is the first time I have seen anything from his guy and my impressions, after watching and reading this thread, are that he is a prick who will do anything for attention. There are real issues of women being being treated badly but faux controversy nonsense like this helps nothing. This guy is no better than Jack Thompson.
 
Suda's schtick is getting old. All of his games that I've played are terrible, and his perverted humor isn't even funny in an ironic sense.

I never played Killer 7 or No More Heroes so don't slander me based on those games.

Word, Lollipop Chainsaw was a terrible game.
 
Hello, Matt Lees here - thought I'd come and post a response to the XSEED employee.

Apparently I am incorrect about some specific elements of the mini-game, particularly in terms of the X-ray glasses. The glasses are unlocked during the game or purchased as a pre-order bonus.

As with most of the other points made, the aim here seems to be to try and discredit me by pointing out things that don't change the reality of what the mini-game *is*. True, your assassination targets within the game are also called 'targets'. Does that make it cool to do the same for women you're trying to shag?

This point in particular glosses over something fairly major:
"By look at her breasts and crotch, she will, of course, like you more."
Worded incorrectly. It's true that you're basically ogling your date while she isn't looking, but if she catches you, she'll be hella pissed off.

This isn't worded incorrectly at all: It's a direct case of cause and effect. Aside from presenting the woman with gifts - which you can only do at certain intervals - the *entire* mini-game revolves around staring at her crotch and breasts while the game occasionally pumps out up-beat music overlaid with female orgasm sounds. As it's the only thing that you actually in this mini-game, I don't think my tongue-in-cheek correlation is unfair.

The gift stuff being offensive is an interesting one, and I'll admit that in the video I perhaps got some of the emphasis wrong. I was aiming to convey how weird it was that you simply win their favor by buying them gifts, and never even seem to actually talk to them. People keep comparing it to James Bond, but fuck that - at least he's a pretty smooth talker.

The money thing is a cause of confusion, but frankly I'm not the one to blame: Three or four people in the office saw the mini-game, and everyone thought that one of the items you could give the girl was cash. As a translator for the game you may have had documentation that explained otherwise, but from the perspective of a player this wasn't made clear, as we were pretty certain about it. If we were wrong I'd put that down to a lack of clarity on the development side.

The points made by the XSEED translator are valid, but they still don't justify the nature of this mini-game. The specifics aren't the meat of the pudding - it's the overall gist that feels creepy as fuck: It's a mini-game where you pick up women by staring at their tits and buying them stuff while orgasmic moaning noises play. The fact that the X-ray glasses are 'optional DLC' doesn't mean everything is A-OK.

The point I wanted to make with this video is simple: Suda 51 has been respected as an auteur for many years, but the nature of his recent work no longer earns him that kind of status. You might argue that this stuff is knowingly subversive, but that doesn't escape the reality of the situation: His games primarily pander to an audience of fap-happy teens. The fact that X-ray glasses are pre-order DLC makes this situation abundantly clear.

It's not a matter of censorship, it's a matter of retracting respect. I've given him the benefit of the doubt for a long time, but now it's clear that he's compromised his own art for the sake of easy sales to a male teen market. There's a term for that in the world of art: Selling out. I think there's a place for games like this, in the same way that I wouldn't want pornography outlawed - I just think that people who treat games like this as 'art' rather than being a guilty pleasure have traveled about sixteen feet up their own arse.

I'd like to make a couple of final points here, simply because Neogaf seems slightly more sane than most of the other places on the internet.

First of all, the response to the video has amazed me. I suspected that calling out Suda 51 for selling out might be slightly controversial, but I didn't feel that way about the rest of the video. Expressing distaste at a creepy perv-em 'up mini-game is apparently equated with being a 'sensationalist' journalist. The fact that this opinion is seen as controversial makes me unbelievably sad - detractors can feel free to consider that a win.

An element you won't control, however, is putting words into my mouth. This was never about dulling down games by making them less overtly weird about women (although I've yet to see compelling evidence that this would be the case) and it was never about 'censorship'. There seems to be a strong belief that harshly criticizing art equates to trying to enforce censorship. To be blunt, it doesn't. No matter how high you hold it in regard, nothing is above critique. Many have aggressively suggested that I should stop making videos of this nature because I am censoring someone else. Obviously, the irony of this point must be lost.

There's an implicit suggestion that I created this video either to stir up faux controversy for hits, or because I'm looking to use videogame journalism to fuel some kind of wider agenda. Neither of these suggestions are true.

First up, let's talk about hits: I don't want them. I don't want a big community, I want a great one. If I could retract every click from the 4chan monstrosities who descended on my video, I certainly would. There's a belief on the internet that every click is vital - that journalism will stoop to any level required simply to drive people to comment and click. It may be a model that some websites use, but I find it to be a despicable and worthless mindset. If you've followed my work before this week, you'll hopefully be aware of that. If you hate me for this video though, I actively implore you: Don't watch another VideoGamer video ever again. I will do my best to clearly label them for you.

Lastly, let's talk about agendas. My agenda is simple: Let's make games better. Mostly that involves pointing the finger at giant publishers being fuckwits, but sometimes the issues are more complex than that. This video features me expressing fairly mild opinions in a fashion that I assumed would be universally reasonable - the real agendas at play here come from an entirely different angle. There's a strange beast that storms into town whenever anything related to gender gets mentioned, and the horrifically unpleasant nature of this cyclone makes reasoned conversation impossible.

'Trendy feminism' isn't the problem here - it's the deeply vicious and aggressive response that any notion of equality is met with: A weird fear that somehow games are being forced to change to meet the needs of a wacko liberal minority. Looking at how beautifully niche the PC games I'm playing right now are, I'm not sure where the seeds of this fear come from, but I'm fascinated by it to say the least.

I never intended to step into the firing line of this strangely delusional group of campaigners, but feeling the impact of that much hate has given me a huge respect for the bravery of those who repeatedly face it - standing up to express your beliefs knowing damn well you're going to take a beating takes guts. Calling someone a faggot and telling them you hope they die in YouTube comment, to be blunt, doesn't.

Apologies for the tl;dr, but I'll leave you with a final point: I didn't create this video with an agenda, but I've definitely got one now. I won't back down, and I won't admit that my opinions are "wrong", as so many halfwits have hilariously demanded. My video content will not become a crusade, and I will continue to make the same stuff as always - but I won't hold back because of this when it comes to dealing with games in the future. Those who claim I am a censor of art aim to bludgeon me into silence with slurs, but that is something they can never achieve - in the same way that pissy blacklisting publishers will never make me keep my mouth shut either. Videogames journalism has lost its way, and brutal honesty is the only way forward - no matter what the cost.

If what you've just read makes me your enemy, I'm fucking proud to wear that badge.
 
Suda 51 had little to do with Lollipop Chainsaw though, that said it was pretty far from terrible.

He is listed as the producer of LC. It was short, it wasn't funny, the gameplay was repetitive as hell. Take away the chearleader with the chainsaw and this game would've never got the attention it got.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Hello Matt Lees. I like some of your videos but can you stop doing the strained "lads" voice and just use your normal talky indoors one please.

I am also pretty bored of the male game journalists for feminism drive. You've just given this game more exposure instead of ignoring it and championing the better things more. Thats how you use your screen-time more productively.
 

abadguy

Banned
He is listed as the producer of LC. It was short, it wasn't funny, the gameplay was repetitive as hell. Take away the chearleader with the chainsaw and this game would've never got the attention it got.

He came up with the original concept, Jame Gunn wrote the script, he was nowhere near as involved as he was with NMH or Killer 7, Hotel Dusk etc. Kinda like Shadows of the Damned, these are barely Suda games. As for the gameplay it was a decent little hack n slash that's good for a rental. I have played far FAR worse games that were barely competent in their design and actually had the nerve to take themselves seriously.
 
He came up with the original concept, Jame Gunn wrote the script, he was nowhere near as involved as he was with NMH or Killer 7, Hotel Dusk etc. Kinda like Shadows of the Damned, these are barely Suda games. As for the gameplay it was a decent little hack n slash that's good for a rental. I have played far FAR worse games that were barely competent in their design and actually had the nerve to take themselves seriously.

Well the concept of having a chearleader with a chainsaw slaughtering zombies wasn't good anyways. Too bad I can't rent(illegal) games with mixed reviews that might or might not be hidden gems, I bought it and didn't like it.
 

rvy

Banned
'Trendy feminism' isn't the problem here

Yes it is.

You want equality? Ask DICE some hard questions about not allowing users to choose female models in BF4. Don't jump on the crazy, over-the-top and nonsensical Suda game for allowing players to stare at *gasp* boobs. How offensive is that!? I mean, slicing people and monsters up for 30 mins straight is a-OK, but God help us all if we look at boobs and crotches. Can't have that.

lol, "journalism".
 
Ok, before going to bed I was just thinking that the outrage was originating from a weird idea of asexual feminism that borders on puritanical nonsense, but now I feel confident in saying that it's probably more a case of people being giant prudes, afraid of any notion of promiscuous sexuality.

With a healthy mix of double standards thrown in for good measure to single out video games as not eligible to deal with "controversial" themes like casual sex... dear lord, when did easy sex become a controversial matter, what is this, the 1930s?

Anyway, those aspiring to spread feminism should be aware that not everything that offends their moral compass is also sexist or problematic to others.
 
Well the concept of having a chearleader with a chainsaw slaughtering zombies wasn't good anyways. Too bad I can't rent(illegal) games with mixed reviews that might or might not be hidden gems, I bought it and didn't like it.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer isn't much different in concept. Though LC is done in a less interesting fashion. I did enjoy it, but not as much as NMH and Killer7.

I probably will get Killer Is Dead and if it sucks like Shadow did, I can get a refund.
 

Shaneus

Member
Well the concept of having a chearleader with a chainsaw slaughtering zombies wasn't good anyways. Too bad I can't rent(illegal) games with mixed reviews that might or might not be hidden gems, I bought it and didn't like it.
I agree, it's a terrible concept. We should have more dudebros running around in World War whatever gunning down aliens or mutants or something. Fuck this creativity shit.
 

Skinpop

Member
Sorry, but cultural relativism only goes so far. Saying something is a different culture and thus not bound by what we consider to be morals or ethics only really reaches so far. If a culture farts every time they meet a new person and we consider it rude but it's polite in their culture then yeah, you could claim cultural relativism.

If a culture's view on mental illness is stuck in the 1600s, where these people are mistreated and misdiagnosed thanks to willful ignorance, and problems arise in their society due to their appalling mishandling or downright disgraceful treatment then how far does "well, it's just how they view mental illness" go?

To make a clearer comparison to the topic, how much cultural relativism can you claim against Japan's enormous sexual molestation/rape problem? That's just how they are, right? You can't really call them out for having awful views regarding this topic, right?
And I supposed western morals is the gold standard for how we judge good vs wrong?

It's pathetic that our colonialistic tendencies still live on through the western moralization of other cultures.
 

Weezin

Member
Yes it is.

You want equality? Ask DICE some hard questions about not allowing users to choose female models in BF4. Don't jump on the crazy, over-the-top and nonsensical Suda game for allowing players to stare at *gasp* boobs. How offensive is that!? I mean, slicing people and monsters up for 30 mins straight is a-OK, but God help us all if we look at boobs and crotches. Can't have that.

lol, "journalism".

You don't see a problem with reinforcing the concept that women are objects? Okay.
 

Rehynn

Member
The point I wanted to make with this video is simple: Suda 51 has been respected as an auteur for many years, but the nature of his recent work no longer earns him that kind of status. You might argue that this stuff is knowingly subversive, but that doesn't escape the reality of the situation: His games primarily pander to an audience of fap-happy teens. The fact that X-ray glasses are pre-order DLC makes this situation abundantly clear.

But what about the rest of the game? What if it's awesome and features female characters that are portrayed very differently?

What if I put together a video of Mad Men clips featuring lingering shots of Christina Hendricks' curves and characters' comments about her cup size? Would anyone be right to judge the whole series based on that?

I agree with many of the sentiments that you have expressed, I just feel like this is being blown out of proportion. And I usually love your videos, man, keep up the good work.
 
Hello Matt Lees. I like some of your videos but can you stop doing the strained "lads" voice and just use your normal talky indoors one please.

I am also pretty bored of the male game journalists for feminism drive. You've just given this game more exposure instead of ignoring it and championing the better things more. Thats how you use your screen-time more productively.

I champion plenty of stuff, it's just that most of it goes unwatched. When the reaction to stuff like this is THIS fucking mental, it's clear that there's a massive problem at hand.

Sorry if it's a topic that you find tedious, but for my generation it's hardly a surprise: I grew up getting so much shit for being a gamer, and now we're almost at the point where it's accepted as being something that normal people do there are people actively trying to ensure that gaming remains a closed circle. As someone who was excluded from society for most of my life because of my unusual hobby, it's a topic that I hold pretty close to my heart. That's the long and short of it, and I suspect that's the case for almost everyone else who occasionally brings up stuff like this. There are a group of people actively working to undo everything we've spent our lives working towards, and obviously that's going to be met with a response.

I appreciate that it can be tiresome, though, and that's why I don't let it dominate the majority of what I do - primarily I make entertainment, with an emphasis on comedy stuff. It would be easier to ignore stuff like this entirely, but leaving a small group of nutters to themselves in the hope that they'll just go away isn't clever: We did the same thing in the UK with UKIP - a faintly racist political organisation that no-one paid any attention until the point where they actually started gaining power. I don't blame people for ignoring topics like this, but dismissing them as a waste of time doesn't seem helpful either.

Another big argument is that it doesn't matter because "it's just videogames", which is fair enough to an extent - I don't wave the flag for the GAMES ARE ART crowd, but I certainly think it's reductionist to shrug the whole medium off as a silly waste of time. Everything we do in life is fundamentally pointless if you look at it from a wider scale, so by the same merit everything is worth being observed from some sort of worthwhile perspective. "Who cares?" is a pretty limp response, and one that works with almost anything. If you're going to live your life with that mantra, I can't imagine why you'd ever get out of bed.
 

rvy

Banned
You don't see a problem with reinforcing the concept that women are objects? Okay.

I see much more of a problem with the refusal to let users choose female models in FPS such as Battlefield and Carl on Duty than Suda giving you mini-games to stare at boobs.

Also, in case you can't read:

This game actually does have characterized women outside of Gigolo Mode, including your boss whom you respect because she's business-smart and no-nonsense, your upbeat assistant, an elegant, mysterious woman, as well as targets for execution and clients who hire you to do the executing during story mode. In fact, more women are in story mode than in Gigolo Mode.
 

Bendoruu

Neo Member
Pseudo-feminists barking at the wrong tree again, like always.

As a male I care about women's rights, I care about their place in today's society, that is to say that they need to be treated as equal, they need to be paid the same for their jobs, they need to have the right to choose between abortion or not (look at the recent events in the US, THAT is worthy of outrage), they need...a thousand things more, especially in some countries.

The roots of the problems are here. So if you consider yourself a feminist, get into politics, not video games.

The trend that consist in criticizing every choice made by developers/designers regarding their female characters is getting very old, very quickly and is now totally counter-productive.
Unless there is some blatant, stupid and gratuitous anti-feminism in a game, stop over-reacting and diluting a true important message on trivial subjects. If you're not ok with some choices, don't play it and get overt it.
 
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