• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Xbox One release EU delay explained - there are no manufacturing problems, insists MS

sono

sono

Gold Member
What is the release date (anywhere) - did I miss an actual date yet, I have seen "November" for some countries.
 
K

Klocker

Member
No reason to doubt Albert.

Also hearing from people who worked on Kinect explain how intense the voice features are and hearing stories about dialects and such I can see how hard language implementation could be
 
E

EvB

Member
kudoboi said:
Everyone who isn't 50 can speak proper English here so why are we in tier 2/3? More bs reasons from microsoft
Click to expand...

I'd imagine that allocating marketing resources doesn't scale in a linear fashion with the population of the country you are marketing to.

I can't imagine the ROI for launching in Singapore is quite as good as other larger countries.
 
O

operon

Member
Acheteedo said:
Why do you guys care what the reason is? It's delayed in a bunch of countries either way, and that sucks no matter the cause.
Click to expand...
They care because localisation is a software thing whereas if the delay is due to supply issues it might suggest that supplies will be constrained in tier 1 countries
 
M

MoneyHats

Banned
Septimius said:
"But look, I have an Xbox here, clearly that's proof we can produce millions of them!"
Click to expand...


What he's saying is that he has a "Final" version meaning at this point in time the unit is already done and has plenty of time to get produced, meanwhile he doesn't think his "Friends" (meaning Sony) are at this same stage of the game.

That's what I got out of his comment.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Ushae said:
Not sure what to say about Alberts statement, he's been very honest and forthcoming recently and took his time out to post here on GAF, has Sony done the same?
Click to expand...

This statement didn't need to be there. Just because Albert post here doesn't mean Sony has to follow suit and have an official Sony person be a spokesperson on GAF.

Expecting Sony to do the same just because someone from MS does so is just a silly expectation.

Besides, Shuhei is active on Twitter for a reason.

As for Albert's statement, he did say that he's on 100% PR mode in Gamescom.
 
M

Metfanant

Member
the numbers wont lie...both of these consoles are going to sell out at launch...so when the first couple months of sales numbers come in...if one is significantly higher than the other...than you can assume the console with lower sales had supply issues (at least in relation to the other console)..
 
tfur

tfur

Member
So, I guess this means the Xb1 is not functional without using kinect. Otherwise why would you not just release and patch in better localization?

I do not believe this marketing guy.
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
tfur said:
So, I guess this means the Xb1 is not functional without using kinect. Otherwise why would you not just release and patch in better localization?

I do not believe this marketing guy.
Click to expand...
First impressions with technology are a huge deal.
If Kinect 2 doesn't just work when someone tries to use it for the first time they will discredit it.
Microsoft is better off delaying regions that aren't 100% supported than trying to redeem its reputation.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Metfanant said:
the numbers wont lie...both of these consoles are going to sell out at launch...so when the first couple months of sales numbers come in...if one is significantly higher than the other...than you can assume the console with lower sales had supply issues...
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Having less stock doesn't imply supply issue, it could very well reflect their existing production rate.

I mean, if MS has 10x the scale of production facilities of Sony, they'll definitely manufacture more devices than Sony, even if MS has supply issues while Sony's production was flawless. ( obviously not the case )
 
E

El-Suave

Member
Voice recognition not being ready didn't stop them to unleash Kinect 1 in most countries.
TV features won't be ready in most countries they launch in - doesn't stop them.

I don't know about manufacturing problems - it is allocating what they have to where their priorities are though.
 
K

Klocker

Member
Garrett 2U said:
First impressions with technology are a huge deal.
If Kinect 2 doesn't just work when someone tries to use it for the first time they will discredit it.
Microsoft is better off delaying regions that aren't 100% supported than trying to redeem its reputation.
Click to expand...

That's a bingo
 
tfur

tfur

Member
Garrett 2U said:
First impressions with technology are a huge deal.
If Kinect 2 doesn't just work when someone tries to use it for the first time they will discredit it.
Microsoft is better off delaying regions that aren't 100% supported than trying to redeem its reputation.
Click to expand...

If first impressions are such a huge deal, why is it almost hidden from view at the conferences? You would almost think kinect does not exist, from the lack of showing games.

I don't buy the PR at all. Show how beautiful it is, and why people should wait for this feature. So far we have fake e3, "xbox go home lag", delayed first party kinect game, and now mostly tech demos.

Doesn't smell right at all.
 
M

Metfanant

Member
Nightengale said:
Not necessarily. Having less stock doesn't imply supply issue, it could very well reflect their existing production rate.

I mean, if MS has 10x the scale of production facilities of Sony, they'll definitely manufacture more devices than Sony, even if MS has supply issues while Sony's production was flawless. ( obviously not the case )
Click to expand...

i stealth edited my comment to say the supply issues would be in relation to the other console...

ethomaz said:
Seems like they lowered the shipment forecast for 2013... well I don't know if true or bull.

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2013/8/27/microsoft_lowers_xbox_one_shipment_forecast.htm
Click to expand...

anyone know what Sony's shipment estimates are for 2013?
 
M

mangochutney

Member
Even if we took this reason and accepted it - it is still shame on MS.

If we accept their reasons given, it isn't like they almost made their deadlines and only one or two languages and locales were missed - they nearly halved their commitments.

That's a colossal missing of deadlines.
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
T

Thorgal

Member
BruiserBear said:
So his completely inaccurate PS4 release date prediction just days before the official announcement hasn't shaken your confidence one bit?
Click to expand...
The fact that he has been right 95% of the time for years and the fact that things can change before he is notified of the change does not make him not legit.

We are not talking about an insider who got one thing right and got everything else wrong here.
If that was the case CBOAT would have been banned years ago.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
A

Albert Penello

Member
Wow. My grip on truthfulness was that tenuous?

Perhaps, it could be taken at face value that we are telling the truth. I haven’t been up here posting spin or BS. I’ve been pushing hard to be transparent in how we talk about what’s going on with the platform. And I’m clear when I can’t comment on things.

Yet, somehow since this truth doesn’t jibe with the popular belief online, we are being dishonest. I get that we’ve had a rough few months, but at some point I’d like to think we get the benefit of the doubt, at least on things that make sense logically. You know, Occam’s Razor and such.

Here’s truth:

There never has been any sort of yield or performance issues with our GPU/ESRAM/KINECT/ETC. It’s simply not true, and I’ve heard the rumors online so often I actually went to the silicon engineers to ask them again. Our HW program (knock-on-wood) has been on schedule and again, we’ve had the opportunity to increase performance even later in the program. You don’t have yield issues then upgrade the clock speed by 6%. Again, simple logic here.

Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK? Those represent the vast majority of our volumes. Anyone can look at GFK Chart-Track and see the volumes in the regions that slipped. Here’s an assignment for the GAF Detectives: go look at historical sell-thru rates of consoles by region, then tell me what percentage of global consoles sales were represented by those affected markets. (hint: it’s a small percentage). Each and every region is important to us, don’t get me wrong, but anyone can look at those numbers and deduce it has nothing to do with volume.

I’m going to state it again, just like I said here and to OXM: The delay was localization related. Besides needing local language support, we also need to prop-up local Live, Apps, a Marketplace, and a variety of other services. We bundle that together as “localization” in messaging, but there is more to shipping in a region then text and voice translation. The offset to that, like we’ve said, X1 is region free and while that’s slightly more inconvenient, it will still allow people in the local countries to enjoy launch. Again, not something we’d be promoting if we were having issues with volume.

I’m certainly not going to change everyone’s mind, I get that. And I know there is tendency to believe there are many more diabolical things going on behind the scenes. In this case, we are being fully transparent. And FYI – we passed FCC certification back in early summer, before PS4.

Lastly – anything that was shown on a box, was shown on near-final retail HW. Our Dev Kits and Retail Units are the same.

Albert “spoonful of sugar” Penello
 
L

Loakum

Banned
...man Microsoft is really having "one of those years" with this Xbox One launch. I bet they want to release the console asap, but the reason nobody knows the release date to this day, is very troubling....for those interested in the Xbox One.
 
Vol5

Vol5

Member
Albert Penello said:
Wow. My grip on truthfulness was that tenuous?

Perhaps, it could be taken at face value that we are telling the truth. I haven’t been up here posting spin or BS. I’ve been pushing hard to be transparent in how we talk about what’s going on with the platform. And I’m clear when I can’t comment on things.

Yet, somehow since this truth doesn’t jibe with the popular belief online, we are being dishonest. I get that we’ve had a rough few months, but at some point I’d like to think we get the benefit of the doubt, at least on things that make sense logically. You know, Occam’s Razor and such.

Here’s truth:

There never has been any sort of yield or performance issues with our GPU/ESRAM/KINECT/ETC. It’s simply not true, and I’ve heard the rumors online so often I actually went to the silicon engineers to ask them again. Our HW program (knock-on-wood) has been on schedule and again, we’ve had the opportunity to increase performance even later in the program. You don’t have yield issues then upgrade the clock speed by 6%. Again, simple logic here.

Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK? Those represent the vast majority of our volumes. Anyone can look at GFK Chart-Track and see the volumes in the regions that slipped. Here’s an assignment for the GAF Detectives: go look at historical sell-thru rates of consoles by region, then tell me what percentage of global consoles sales were represented by those affected markets. (hint: it’s a small percentage). Each and every region is important to us, don’t get me wrong, but anyone can look at those numbers and deduce it has nothing to do with volume.

I’m going to state it again, just like I said here and to OXM: The delay was localization related. Besides needing local language support, we also need to prop-up local Live, Apps, a Marketplace, and a variety of other services. We bundle that together as “localization” in messaging, but there is more to shipping in a region then text and voice translation. The offset to that, like we’ve said, X1 is region free and while that’s slightly more inconvenient, it will still allow people in the local countries to enjoy launch. Again, not something we’d be promoting if we were having issues with volume.

I’m certainly not going to change everyone’s mind, I get that. And I know there is tendency to believe there are many more diabolical things going on behind the scenes. In this case, we are being fully transparent. And FYI – we passed FCC certification back in early summer, before PS4.

Lastly – anything that was shown on a box, was shown on near-final retail HW. Our Dev Kits and Retail Units are the same.

Albert “spoonful of sugar” Penello
Click to expand...

but, but CBOAT??
 
tfur

tfur

Member
So, you are not behind schedule, and it was always the plan to shorten the list of countries for launch day?
 
A

Albert Penello

Member
tfur said:
So, you are not behind schedule, and it was always the plan to shorten the list of countries for launch day?
Click to expand...

I'm saying that it has nothing to do with Hardware, and I'm giving evidence that it has nothing to do with HW.

Of course, it's a platform launch. As we were evaluating the SW schedule, we made the very hard call to scale back those territories to give our SW teams some breathing room.
 
T

TechnicPuppet

Nothing! I said nothing!
Albert Penello said:
Wow. My grip on truthfulness was that tenuous?

Perhaps, it could be taken at face value that we are telling the truth. I haven’t been up here posting spin or BS. I’ve been pushing hard to be transparent in how we talk about what’s going on with the platform. And I’m clear when I can’t comment on things.

Yet, somehow since this truth doesn’t jibe with the popular belief online, we are being dishonest. I get that we’ve had a rough few months, but at some point I’d like to think we get the benefit of the doubt, at least on things that make sense logically. You know, Occam’s Razor and such.

Here’s truth:

There never has been any sort of yield or performance issues with our GPU/ESRAM/KINECT/ETC. It’s simply not true, and I’ve heard the rumors online so often I actually went to the silicon engineers to ask them again. Our HW program (knock-on-wood) has been on schedule and again, we’ve had the opportunity to increase performance even later in the program. You don’t have yield issues then upgrade the clock speed by 6%. Again, simple logic here.

Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK? Those represent the vast majority of our volumes. Anyone can look at GFK Chart-Track and see the volumes in the regions that slipped. Here’s an assignment for the GAF Detectives: go look at historical sell-thru rates of consoles by region, then tell me what percentage of global consoles sales were represented by those affected markets. (hint: it’s a small percentage). Each and every region is important to us, don’t get me wrong, but anyone can look at those numbers and deduce it has nothing to do with volume.

I’m going to state it again, just like I said here and to OXM: The delay was localization related. Besides needing local language support, we also need to prop-up local Live, Apps, a Marketplace, and a variety of other services. We bundle that together as “localization” in messaging, but there is more to shipping in a region then text and voice translation. The offset to that, like we’ve said, X1 is region free and while that’s slightly more inconvenient, it will still allow people in the local countries to enjoy launch. Again, not something we’d be promoting if we were having issues with volume.

I’m certainly not going to change everyone’s mind, I get that. And I know there is tendency to believe there are many more diabolical things going on behind the scenes. In this case, we are being fully transparent. And FYI – we passed FCC certification back in early summer, before PS4.

Lastly – anything that was shown on a box, was shown on near-final retail HW. Our Dev Kits and Retail Units are the same.

Albert “spoonful of sugar” Penello
Click to expand...

That's really interesting about FCC Certification, it has been used as a bit of a stick to beat the Xbox One with.
 
R

Racer1977

Member
thewhitehawk said:
I think it's most likely that they're just focusing their initial units on the markets they are strongest in to get a good footing, than it is for them to be having manufacturing problems.

It seems like the logical business decision to make, but that decision will impact the countries they decided to delay the launch in quite negatively I believe.
Click to expand...
I would have thought MS would want to increase their market share in these weaker countries, otherwise they're reinforcing past trends.

Sony showed this gen it's preferable to have a foot in all regions. If you focus on, for example, the UK and US, you leave yourself open to being wiped out of the console game altogether if you have a poor launch and opening few years.
 
R

RedNumberFive

Banned
Microsoft wasn't exactly transparent with their hardware problems at the beginning of last gen, so I don't know who to believe. CBOAT has been more consistent, so I guess I'm on Team Yield.
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Albert Penello said:
You don’t have yield issues then upgrade the clock speed by 6%. Again, simple logic here.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I misunderstood at the time, but the clock speed upgrade wasn't an upgrade to physical hardware, it was in software, which is not incompatible with a scenario where you might have had to throttle full access to the hardware while you were sorting out yield issues.

Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK?
Click to expand...
Because they're your most important markets and you'd rather be launching in those markets this holiday with low quantities than delay for them as well and not launch at all? Not a very convincing rhetorical angle to take.
 
M

Metfanant

Member
Albert Penello said:
Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK? Those represent the vast majority of our volumes. Anyone can look at GFK Chart-Track and see the volumes in the regions that slipped. Here’s an assignment for the GAF Detectives: go look at historical sell-thru rates of consoles by region, then tell me what percentage of global consoles sales were represented by those affected markets. (hint: it’s a small percentage). Each and every region is important to us, don’t get me wrong, but anyone can look at those numbers and deduce it has nothing to do with volume.
Click to expand...

im not doubting your honesty in any way Albert...as you seem to be as straight a shooter as they come when dealing with an actual employee...

but in regards to this above point in particular...its a simple answer...IF the yield/manufacturing issues are true, then you would delay in smaller markets in order to solidify your hardware availability in the major markets...

are you able to comment on the recent rumors of MS lowering shipment estimates for 2013? my assumption is that officially no estimate was ever made public, so it cant be lowered? ;)

oh and btw...i assume you'll be getting one of those fancy white Xbone's...any chance you could send that black one you posted a picture of sitting in your living room my way?...
 
lifa-cobex

lifa-cobex

Member
tfur said:
If first impressions are such a huge deal, why is it almost hidden from view at the conferences? You would almost think kinect does not exist, from the lack of showing games.

I don't buy the PR at all. Show how beautiful it is, and why people should wait for this feature. So far we have fake e3, "xbox go home lag", delayed first party kinect game, and now mostly tech demos.

Doesn't smell right at all.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better.

MS have pissed away the first impressions stance on every corner.
They really need to show off some tech demos to sell this off. In fact I need to see tones of tech demos from actual people playing around with it.
 
A

Albert Penello

Member
Metfanant said:
im not doubting your honesty in any way Albert...as you seem to be as straight a shooter as they come when dealing with an actual employee...

but in regards to this above point in particular...its a simple answer...IF the yield/manufacturing issues are true, then you would delay in smaller markets in order to solidify your hardware availability in the major markets...
Click to expand...

If that were true, then why delay any markets and just ship lower volumes everywhere?

We can go around-and-around. If you want to look for flaws or alternatives to my statement, they could be found.

All I can do is come on here and tell the truth. I have no reason to lie, nothing to be gained. The number of units we ship is what we will ship. The call on the regions has been made.

Why would I come and defend this only later to be called a liar when the actual numbers are released? The TRUTHFACT will be known when we launch.

If I didn't have a good idea of what was going on, and have faith that my statements will be affirmed in a few months, then it would be super easy to just shut-up about it. But it's SO wrong and uninformed, I felt the need to address it.

I'm sorry if what I'm saying collides with the leaks that have been going on, but the time and effort to debunk them... I just can't do that for everything.
 
J

JABEE

Member
Albert Penello said:
Wow. My grip on truthfulness was that tenuous?

Perhaps, it could be taken at face value that we are telling the truth. I haven’t been up here posting spin or BS. I’ve been pushing hard to be transparent in how we talk about what’s going on with the platform. And I’m clear when I can’t comment on things.

Yet, somehow since this truth doesn’t jibe with the popular belief online, we are being dishonest. I get that we’ve had a rough few months, but at some point I’d like to think we get the benefit of the doubt, at least on things that make sense logically. You know, Occam’s Razor and such.

Here’s truth:

There never has been any sort of yield or performance issues with our GPU/ESRAM/KINECT/ETC. It’s simply not true, and I’ve heard the rumors online so often I actually went to the silicon engineers to ask them again. Our HW program (knock-on-wood) has been on schedule and again, we’ve had the opportunity to increase performance even later in the program. You don’t have yield issues then upgrade the clock speed by 6%. Again, simple logic here.

Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK? Those represent the vast majority of our volumes. Anyone can look at GFK Chart-Track and see the volumes in the regions that slipped. Here’s an assignment for the GAF Detectives: go look at historical sell-thru rates of consoles by region, then tell me what percentage of global consoles sales were represented by those affected markets. (hint: it’s a small percentage). Each and every region is important to us, don’t get me wrong, but anyone can look at those numbers and deduce it has nothing to do with volume.

I’m going to state it again, just like I said here and to OXM: The delay was localization related. Besides needing local language support, we also need to prop-up local Live, Apps, a Marketplace, and a variety of other services. We bundle that together as “localization” in messaging, but there is more to shipping in a region then text and voice translation. The offset to that, like we’ve said, X1 is region free and while that’s slightly more inconvenient, it will still allow people in the local countries to enjoy launch. Again, not something we’d be promoting if we were having issues with volume.

I’m certainly not going to change everyone’s mind, I get that. And I know there is tendency to believe there are many more diabolical things going on behind the scenes. In this case, we are being fully transparent. And FYI – we passed FCC certification back in early summer, before PS4.

Lastly – anything that was shown on a box, was shown on near-final retail HW. Our Dev Kits and Retail Units are the same.

Albert “spoonful of sugar” Penello
Click to expand...

So local language support were not the problem in countries like Switzerland? It was about getting services in those specific countries ready on time for launch?

Those services are ready for Tier 1 countries like the US, UK and Germany?
 
P

patapuf

Member
CadetMahoney said:
So that giagntic #truthfact thread about MS having yield problems or whatever was garbage?
Click to expand...

We won't ever know?

In the end it doesn't matter since it won't affect the end user.

How many consoles MS will ship at launch is a statistic that will soon be forgotten by anyone exept sales age and fanboys that like list wars.
 
tfur

tfur

Member
Albert Penello said:
I'm saying that it has nothing to do with Hardware, and I'm giving evidence that it has nothing to do with HW.

Of course, it's a platform launch. As we were evaluating the SW schedule, we made the very hard call to scale back those territories to give our SW teams some breathing room.
Click to expand...

So you are behind schedule, but only because of SW (software) issues.

When you say your hardware is on schedule, does that schedule accommodate for yield issues?
 
K

Klocker

Member
Albert Penello said:
Wow. My grip on truthfulness was that tenuous?

Perhaps, it could be taken at face value that we are telling the truth. I haven’t been up here posting spin or BS. I’ve been pushing hard to be transparent in how we talk about what’s going on with the platform. And I’m clear when I can’t comment on things.

Yet, somehow since this truth doesn’t jibe with the popular belief online, we are being dishonest. I get that we’ve had a rough few months, but at some point I’d like to think we get the benefit of the doubt, at least on things that make sense logically. You know, Occam’s Razor and such.

Here’s truth:

There never has been any sort of yield or performance issues with our GPU/ESRAM/KINECT/ETC. It’s simply not true, and I’ve heard the rumors online so often I actually went to the silicon engineers to ask them again. Our HW program (knock-on-wood) has been on schedule and again, we’ve had the opportunity to increase performance even later in the program. You don’t have yield issues then upgrade the clock speed by 6%. Again, simple logic here.

Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK? Those represent the vast majority of our volumes. Anyone can look at GFK Chart-Track and see the volumes in the regions that slipped. Here’s an assignment for the GAF Detectives: go look at historical sell-thru rates of consoles by region, then tell me what percentage of global consoles sales were represented by those affected markets. (hint: it’s a small percentage). Each and every region is important to us, don’t get me wrong, but anyone can look at those numbers and deduce it has nothing to do with volume.

I’m going to state it again, just like I said here and to OXM: The delay was localization related. Besides needing local language support, we also need to prop-up local Live, Apps, a Marketplace, and a variety of other services. We bundle that together as “localization” in messaging, but there is more to shipping in a region then text and voice translation. The offset to that, like we’ve said, X1 is region free and while that’s slightly more inconvenient, it will still allow people in the local countries to enjoy launch. Again, not something we’d be promoting if we were having issues with volume.

I’m certainly not going to change everyone’s mind, I get that. And I know there is tendency to believe there are many more diabolical things going on behind the scenes. In this case, we are being fully transparent. And FYI – we passed FCC certification back in early summer, before PS4.

Lastly – anything that was shown on a box, was shown on near-final retail HW. Our Dev Kits and Retail Units are the same.

Albert “spoonful of sugar” Penello
Click to expand...

thank you for putting up directly with people calling you a liar and standing up and telling us the truthfacts


it is refreshing and ignore those who do not want to believe as they will never believe and want no one else to believe the truth if it is painting you in a fair light
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Xbox is the "number one platform for Diablo 4 players", says Xbox president
News 2 3
109
6K
Shake Your Rump replied
Ark: Survival Ascended Xbox Series X and S Release Date Delayed at the Last Minute
News
17
3K
FrankWza replied
Phasmophobia for consoles delayed
Platform
6
956
chixdiggit replied
Peter Moore: The Final Console Generation, MS going Third Party, and MS debated putting the original Halo on PlayStation
2 3
140
10K
Astray replied
Take-Two CEO Says Competing Xbox and PlayStation Consoles Are a 'Benefit' but Not a 'Necessity'
33
2K
FunkMiller replied
Top Bottom