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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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"this generation" != GT6
The amount of grinding you have to go through to get the higher end cars was already present in FM3. They have had two games to fix this shit but didn't so obviously they are not going to do it now.
If I have to grind stuff to actually buy virtual cars to drive around then I think it totally defeats the purpose of playing a racing videogame. I might as well grind real life to get the money I need to buy a nicer car that I can actually drive and race around in.
dead monkey uk
Member
Yeah not a good sign for things to come.
But MS are launching a console with most of their launch titles offering very dubious DLC/Micro transactions, Something Sony are not doing. Add to this Sony offering free 2 play and free PSN plus games I am quite happy going with Sony this gen.
Unknown One
Member
At least the normal cars seem unaffected. Hopefully the high end cars are not stupidly high. All really depends on how fast you can make money though.
hooijdonk17
Member
A Formula 1 car for $100. You decide.
Unknown One
Member
I meant that GT6 link.
hooijdonk17
Member
Apologies.
pslayer666
Member
I haven't read through the whole thread and I don't know if anyone else thought of this but here's a free tip Turn 10:
In your next game update you should make people need to buy gas for their cars.... Think about it!!!! It'll be great!!! A real driving simulator!!! ^_^
In your next game update you should make people need to buy gas for their cars.... Think about it!!!! It'll be great!!! A real driving simulator!!! ^_^
Unknown One
Member
No problem. I'm just too lazy to quote posts above me. I hate pay to win with a passion. It's too late for these two games sadly. Gran Turismo will sell regardless, so I'm hoping the damage done will be minimal. GT5 grinding was a pain in the ass. I at least hope for repeatable Championship prize money and cars.
AndyVillan
Neo Member
Don't give the fuckers ideas like that! Some suit somewhere will think that's genius
dead monkey uk
Member
I remember joking about 5 years ago that COD will eventually start charging players for more bullets, would not bet against it now.
abracadaver
Member
You have to buy 100 x 0,99$ packs. That gives you enough tokens to buy the car. Basically you have to grind paying with real money. If you do the easy way and buy the 99,99$ you wont have enough tokens.
pslayer666
Member
Well, excuse me but IT IS genius!!! Think about it..... :-D
Turn 10, PD, whoever the fuck should hire me, I got lots more ideas just like this one!!!! ^_^
I am being totally sarcastic btw
Well, why the hell not? Sounds like a pretty great idea too!!!! ^_^
We should make a thread on how to totally rip people off their money in games they already paid 60 bucks for and then sell that to publishers...then we'll be finally able to buy ourselves GAF Gold subs!!! XD
hooijdonk17
Member
It's economies of scale, only in reverse. You can buy smaller batches for cheaper, but waste time buying hundreds of them, or buy a big batch for more money, because you know, they are selling you convenience.
Fuck this shit with a 6 foot pole.
From the OP
Just to clarify, but I believe they are the original incorrect Token prices that were listed launch day. On the Store at the moment for Australia the Token prices are as follows:
100 = $1.35
325 = $3.95
575 = $6.65
1250 = $13.45
2700 = $26.95
8000 = $64.95
Not that it's much better or that I agree with the idea of Tokens and how they've gone about implementing this, but they are the prices I'm seeing right now.
Just as a general FYI, my basic Forza 5 stats breakdown is as follows:
Time spent racing: 3 hours 34 minutes
Credits earned from racing: ~331,000
Driver Level: 14(bonus credits per level is 31,500, so all up 441,000 from leveling)
Then throw in Drivatar/Car Design daily bonuses and it would put me up near 800,000 credits in total, which is roughly 230,000 credits per hour. I've been playing on above average difficulty so more could be made.
So now you can buy cars with real money for "covenience".
But it's inconvenient if you just want to buy a large sum of tokens. You have to grind your payments if you want to get some (relative) value. Crazy!
Has this kind kind of pay-more-for-less scale ever been used elsewhere in any kind of commerce?
Edit: Just seen the updated price list. Still not great!
But it's inconvenient if you just want to buy a large sum of tokens. You have to grind your payments if you want to get some (relative) value. Crazy!
Has this kind kind of pay-more-for-less scale ever been used elsewhere in any kind of commerce?
Edit: Just seen the updated price list. Still not great!
dead monkey uk
Member
This is worse the more you know. At this point I hope Forza 5 sales are terrible only this will stop this practice infecting all AAA games this gen.
The scary thing is I bet its so cheap to implement these practices in games that they only need 1% of victims to purchase content for it to be a success.
theignoramus
Member
the endurance races in Fm3 paid you out a shiton of cash.
What I find inexcusable is the removal of
1) Prize cars. Fm4 was immensely enjoyable because you would get a selection of prize cars to choose from, many of which were highly expensive exotics which would otherwise take hours to acquire.
2) Manufacturer affinity + upggrade discounts. Another awesome feature of the franchise, you could get up to 100% discounts on upgrades if your manufacturer affinity/level was high enough
3) The auction house.
It's hard to not arrive at the conclusion that the microtransaction crap effected the removal of these features,cause everyone loved the user friendly nature of them and they made the franchise that much less rigid and unyielding than Gran Turismo
transformer
Member
Real world costs of all the cars in Forza 5 = 0 if you do the following:
1. Play the game and earn credits.
2. Purchase cars with in game credits.
I suppose if playing the game to progress is not something you are interested in then you should not get these games.
I just checked my Forza 5 profile and noticed that it keeps track of your progress to include time racing. I have earned ~$1million in credits (I have $800k in credits and spent ~$200k on three cars and upgrades) in 4 hours and 27 minutes of racing time. I've played quite a bit more, but painting, tuning, and forzavista don't payout credits and that time is not included in that statistic. The bottom line is the credit earnings in this game are nowhere near as bad as some are making it out to be. After two days of owning the game I can afford almost any car in the game. The only ones I cannot are extremely rare classics/exotics and the higher end race cars (F1, indy, some GT cars). At this rate I imaging any and all cars I want will easily be within my reach without spending any real world dollars.
QuicheFontaine
Member
We've been repeatedly told by microtransaction defenders in this thread to "Vote with your wallet", and "If you don't like it, don't buy it."
So yeah, I guess.
Edit:
Using your own rate, the most expensive car in the game (6,000,000CR) would take you 27 hours to earn.
27 hours.
For one car.
ONE CAR. Out of ~230.
You will never in this lifetime unlock everything just by playing the game.
But you just confirmed that they are exactly that bad. When you include loading times, selecting cars, upgrading, stuff you need to do to keep racing, that 4.5 hours becomes around 10 hours, which translates to 100k/hour. I.e., 60 hours to grind out the Lotus E21.
In FM4 I could make over 100k in 5 minutes.
QuicheFontaine
Member
The worst part is that you're playing all these endless hours on the same 14 tracks.
It's a f2p game people, open your eyes.
It's a f2p game people, open your eyes.
These comments miss the point, which is that they reduced the in-game options you have to earn and drive cars. You have less tracks, less rewards, and a limited free-play garage. The reduced number of content might be excused with the lack of development time (which they apparently don't compensate with free car upgrades, but ok). Nevertheless, all the other downgrades have no other explanation than to incentivize the micro-transactions. Why else would they gimp the free-play garage?
Can Crusher
Banned
MS seems to be going pretty hardcore on microtransation game design. Never really saw that coming honestly.
hooijdonk17
Member
To quote the Arbiter, "Were it so easy.."
QuicheFontaine
Member
Well you could gift cars, and literally there was a 20-25 minute B-spec race that you could do to get around 400K. That's not bad at all. Whenever I slept, PS3 grinded, and I was OK with that.
so only 60$ for 454 hours of fun! wow that is ridicules amount for not so much money, especial if you consider inflation.
In all seriousness I will never pay for a F2P. Just ask for 70-80$ if that is what is takes or add some worthy DLC's 7 tracks for 10-15$ or something.
Anyway someone should make a poll, I'm wondering how many people are willing to vote with there wallets
QuicheFontaine
Member
That's just pure driving time too! Doesn't include time spent painting / tuning your cars, as you get no credits for that.
BakedSardine
Banned
Has ANY journalist approached MS and asked direct questions about what is going on in Forza 5? I'm not a huge fan of racing game (dabbled in Gran Turismo up through GT4, played some PGR on 360), but I am truly shocked at what I have read about this game. $100 for a token pack and that doesn't even buy you the top car in the game?
A chance for everyone test their PR skills - give me a rational response to this question: "You are selling gamers a game for $60 and I think we can agree there is room for monetization beyond the initial sale of the game. What is the justification for offering $100 token packs that are still not enough to buy the top car in the game?"
A chance for everyone test their PR skills - give me a rational response to this question: "You are selling gamers a game for $60 and I think we can agree there is room for monetization beyond the initial sale of the game. What is the justification for offering $100 token packs that are still not enough to buy the top car in the game?"
Roland Deschain
Member
Not only is this a disgusting practice but it has put me off on buying an X1 for the time being.
That's for the most expensive car by the way. There are cheaper cars but still the total hours need for the grind is still ridiculous. That time is better spent elsewhere to either better game, books, or heck, it is better spent on walking leisurely around city.
Not too mention the obstrusive offering of the said microtransaction ingame. What's the point of chasing graphical fidelity then? Aren't the purpose of reaching graphic expertise is to make us immerse better to the world? Obstrusive message completely destroyed that.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Yeah, I thought people might point that out (and you're quite right to do so), so I added up all the credit values of all the cars in the game and worked out the total time:
And again, this is literally just driving time. You also have to add on time spent navigating menus, purchasing things, and painting / tuning cars etc, which are not credit earning activities and which could add a lot to that total.
That's a lot of driving.
gutterboy44
Member
You have to be delusional to not see that the gameplay/grinding has been skewed to maximize microtransactions. There is absolutely nothing "exclusive" about having disposable income to blow on a bullshit microtransaction system. You want cars to feel exclusive, build challenges around them, not just infinite mindless grinding or deep pockets.
Maybe they could have reduced the grind if the car list wasn't so minimal. Thank god DLC is already lined up to ramp up the milking.
Edit: I miss the days of past GT games where there were cars you could only get from golding all the license tests etc. GT5 had one "exclusive" car and it was the carbon X1 for golding all of those challenges. That was fun and rewarding and wasn't a grind at all. GT and Forza need way more of that.
Maybe they could have reduced the grind if the car list wasn't so minimal. Thank god DLC is already lined up to ramp up the milking.
Edit: I miss the days of past GT games where there were cars you could only get from golding all the license tests etc. GT5 had one "exclusive" car and it was the carbon X1 for golding all of those challenges. That was fun and rewarding and wasn't a grind at all. GT and Forza need way more of that.
MADGAME
Member
Wow. I'd imagine if you aren't that skilled at the game it will be even less earnings per hour. Spending over 500 hours in a game just to unlock content? FFS, you will never get a dlc dime from me let alone a game purchase with that bullshit.
Feels like Sony from 2006:
Microsoft: "The goal of Forza 5 is that consumers should think to themselves 'I will work more hours to unlock cars in Forza'. We want people to fell that they want it, irrespective of anything else."
And Microsoft even offers a choice. a) get a second real job to unlock the cars and having somewhat fun after that and b) grind for ages. (*)
(*) - only $59.99 for this FTPOT ("free to pay on top") title.
I think it is, at least on GAF. Don't know how the mainstream audience opinion on this.
WarMacheen
Member
There are a few mentions on Twitter, but the problem is the main stream "media" has glossed over the microtransactions. It should have been a prominent story along with the fact that Forza 5 has much less content than past iterations. But hey, let's give it a 9/10, 5/5.
They don't know about it. And if they are not a fan of the Forza franchise, they probably won't ever notice.
hooijdonk17
Member
This shit will likely do nothing for Forza 5 sales, but one can hope it will leave enough people feeling too shitty to buy Forza 6.
lastflowers
Banned
I've been making about 20k a day on driveatar rewards. So even if I don't play for a week it seems like my account will be up 120-140k (or it least it seems that way). Someone can take that for what it is.
WarMacheen
Member
I think it's more along the lines of people are complacent with a shiny new toy. I have no idea how the game can receive the great reviews it did with so much content cut.
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