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PAL Charts - Week 52 - Wii for art thoU?

If one insists on making comparison to tablets, it's a tethered small, low-resolution tablet device, without multitouch, with a comparably poor OS and no App store. In things that people actually want from a tablet it's most certainly inferior. That's the problem with trying to "me too" against the iOS and Android explosion.

I concur with, I think it was, gofreak, who said in a different thread, you don't want your product's USP to evoke comparison with a dominant market player, in this case the iPad, when your offering doesn't match theirs.

Tablets excel at being tablets because they're designed to be tablets. The comparison doesn't end well.

Tablets fail miserably at being what the gamepad excels at, a device to play video games.
 
He already pointed out the way it differs in a positive way to tablets, and I'd agree with azak... I just bought a new tablet myself, its a totally different kind of device. The streaming tech is ingenious, pumps gorgeous visuals into your hands, provides an immediate and leightweight interface and enables new freedoms and multiplayer options. Miiverse just wouldn't be the same without that resistive screen... The TV remote idea was a good one, and with time TVii could be compelling too. Its a shame they didn't add a pass through for cable boxes or something, because I could see that maybe happening on the next box or ps4.
 
Tablets fail miserably at being what the gamepad excels at, a device to play video games.
The general apathy of the expanded audience towards the Wii U, the growth of the game market on iOS and Android, the movement of publishers towards mobile platforms and the decline of dedicated handhelds would suggest they provide a satisfactory gaming experience to many people and in some cases a sufficient gaming experience that no other is needed.

This being tangential to the actual point made: making your USP seem like a "me too" isn't a good strategy as the comparison doesn't end well. "Oh so it's sort of like an iPad." "Well I already have an iPad/Well I'd rather just have the iPad."
I hope not, because this market will continue to decline and MS and Sony will feel the pain of a shrinking market as well.
MS and Sony's primary market/demographics and the market satisfied with mobile-only gaming don't really overlap, at least not remotely as much as that which created the Wii phenomenon or propelled the DS to its heights.
 
The general apathy of the expanded audience towards the Wii U, the growth of the game market on iOS and Android, the movement of publishers towards mobile platforms and the decline of dedicated handhelds would suggest they provide a satisfactory gaming experience to many people and in some cases a sufficient gaming experience that no other is needed.

I hope not, because this market will continue to decline and MS and Sony will feel the pain of a shrinking market as well.
 
MS and Sony's primary market/demographics and the market satisfied with mobile-only gaming don't really overlap, at least not remotely as much as that which created the Wii phenomenon or propelled the DS to its heights.
Are these kind of statements ever based on anything other than feelings or guesswork? I think that really remains to be seen.
 

Miles X

Member
Are these kind of statements ever based on anything other than feelings or guesswork? I think that really remains to be seen.

Surely it's common sense? It's funny how Nintendo fans quite gladly admitted Nintendo opened up gaming to the 'blue ocean' aka non gamers when Wii and DS were at their peak. Now it's all going downhill they're trying to suggest the Wii userbase was made up of loyal core gamers?
 
Surely it's common sense? It's funny how Nintendo fans quite gladly admitted Nintendo opened up gaming to the 'blue ocean' aka non gamers when Wii and DS were at their peak. Now it's all going downhill they're trying to suggest the Wii userbase was made up of loyal core gamers?

No, you're misunderstanding me... History shows us gamers are fickle, hence why the SNES and PS2 userbases didn't make any kind of uniform 'loyal' transition, and why Nintendo will have to fight to win back any kind of significant proportion of Wii users.

The assertions that casuals can't be convinced to buy new consoles or that Microsoft and Sony are immune to powerful new modes of competition are naive and farcical though, and seem borne entirely of fear and wishful thinking
 

Alex

Member
Tablets fail miserably at being what the gamepad excels at, a device to play video games.

If Nintendo actually chooses to make a solid stream of really good video games and supports the tablet in a meaty fashion as opposed to expanded audience trash and watered down fluff, I'll agree. Based off a Wii pedigree though, I'd probably rather have the iPad, at least I could get some good strat/sim/board/card games on it.

Although, I already have a Wii U, because I am idiot and can't stop early adopting, so this is a meaningless comment. I sure as shit won't bemoan anyone avoiding the U for an iOS device if the support wound up the same, though.

Especially if FTL also winds up on mobile, oh my.

My promise to myself is basically that if this machine doesn't really push my buttons by the end of things, I'll likely just stick to Nintendo handhelds in the future, provided this future is anything we could possibly guess. An ideal future for me would be no Nintnedo console, but a handheld and a tablet on the same setup, just different form factors, both with docking stations. T'would be great, since Nintendo doesn't want to compete with specs anyway.
 
Are these kind of statements ever based on anything other than feelings or guesswork? I think that really remains to be seen.
45l.jpg
46l.jpg

The Wii user population was concentrated among certain demographics, older females (females in general as well and older people in general), and males under 12. The older female demographic is the primary driver of growth in web-based/social and mobile gaming iirc.

Sony and Microsoft don't provide similar detail, but its not secret that (prior to Kinect) they're target demographics in terms of software were males and probably in the age range of 13 to 30.

I can't really fathom a situation where someone who regularly buys COD, GTA, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Halo and God of War transitions to smartphone/tablet only gaming.

I can certainly see a situation where someone who could buy Scribblenauts just makes do with something like Draw Something etc., or instead of Wii Fit someone uses Nike+, where instead of SingStar someone just plays an app equivalent like Sing Sports, and instead of traditional platformers just plays something like Temple Run.
 

ozfunghi

Member
Because the WiiU is charting so well in the rest of Europe right?

First off, that has nothing to do with it. PAL is NOT the UK+Ireland.
Secondly, you seem to know how good the WiiU is charting in the rest of Europe... might want to PM those charts to the OP so he can add them. Because obviously you have seen those charts, right?
 

NBtoaster

Member
Activision transitioned to 7th gen only with COD4 in 2007 - this was when the PS3 base was nonexistent and the 360's global base was still small. I expect that come 2014 they'll transition to 8th gen only.

Third parties also have a vested interest in moving users to the new systems - generational fatigue has most definitely set in for the current systems and it's showing in terms of software sales.

COD: World at War got a (terrible) PS2 version.
 
Why would they do that? They can just keep selling it with profit even if the sales are very low. Same with WiiU, sales are low and the 3rd party support is dismal so far, but i dont think Nintendo will discontunie the WiiU in two years.

Even assuming that Sony can convince stores to keep stocking Vita indefinitely, that ignores the issue of opportunity cost. Vita might - might - ultimately be profitable, but if every dollar spent on Vita would produce a bigger return if reallocated to PS4 or PS Mobile, it's going to be pretty hard to justify supporting it, particularly after the next few supposed software "big guns" (Soul Sacrifice, Tearaway, Killzone) fail to make an impact.

Wii U's worst case scenario is basically GC numbers (~20m over five years), and Nintendo was still able to turn a profit on that system on the back of first-party software sales.

If Sony had first-party handheld IP half as popular as Mario, SSB, or Pokemon, a low handheld installed base would be better than none, but then, if they did, Vita would be selling a lot better than it is and we wouldn't be having this conversation anyway.
 
So, what's the likelihood of another ambassador program?

I think it's unlikely imo with what they have said about being not profitable on the base hardware they have alot less room to move as far as price cuts in comparison to the 3ds which was making a tidy prifit per unit on release.

I guess they could offer some free VC/eShop games to add value without a cut sort of like a mini PS+ but a big cut similar to 3ds isn't on the cards imo.
 
So, what's the likelihood of another ambassador program?

I think it's unlikely imo with what they have said about being not profitable on the base hardware they have alot less room to move as far as price cuts in comparison to the 3ds which was making a tidy prifit per unit on release.

I guess they could offer some free VC/eShop games to add value without a cut sort of like a mini PS+ but a big cut similar to 3ds isn't on the cards imo.

yep, I feel they'll try to avoid any kind of ambassador program. the most we early adaptors can expect is a big fuck you as they quietly lower the trade price for retailers or encourage heavy bundling or something.

after the 3ds debacle, they simply can't afford to have an ambassador program without it causing major upheaval.
 

lherre

Accurate
In Spain Media Markt (and I think others will follow) has the premium pack at 295 euros so 55 euros less than the official price (althought the machine finally was sold at 329 instead 349 here).

So you have now an offer to get premium pack plus nsmbu for 305 euros (the game can be nintendoland instead nsmbu too)

0tyOy.jpg

uKfFm.jpg
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Even assuming that Sony can convince stores to keep stocking Vita indefinitely, that ignores the issue of opportunity cost. Vita might - might - ultimately be profitable, but if every dollar spent on Vita would produce a bigger return if reallocated to PS4 or PS Mobile, it's going to be pretty hard to justify supporting it, particularly after the next few supposed software "big guns" (Soul Sacrifice, Tearaway, Killzone) fail to make an impact.

Wii U's worst case scenario is basically GC numbers (~20m over five years), and Nintendo was still able to turn a profit on that system on the back of first-party software sales.

If Sony had first-party handheld IP half as popular as Mario, SSB, or Pokemon, a low handheld installed base would be better than none, but then, if they did, Vita would be selling a lot better than it is and we wouldn't be having this conversation anyway.
Convinsing stores to stock Vitas shouldnt be a problem as long as there is some demand at all, just look at Xbox 360 in Japan :) It still sells on a weekly basis even if the sales are very low. It might not be available in every store, but it is still being sold.

It depends on how one define what support means. Earlier i understood your post that "no longer supporting it" would mean that hardware production would end because you also mentioned 3rd party support (as in no new games would be made, so it is no need to contunie making the hardware). Sony didnt exactly support the PSP with a lot of 1st party software during the last years, yet the system was/is being available for sale.

I see no reason to cancel the Vita hardware production about one year from now, if that is what you ment. Sony could just scale back on pretty much every expence (like adverticement etc.) and keep selling the system with a profit. We still havnt seen a redesign or a pricedrop either. The only reason i could see a production stop happening is if Sony wants to replace the Vita with something else, but they already make tablets and phones, so i dont think there is much to replace it with.

I dont think that Sony will reallocate much from the PS4 even if the Vita excist or not. The same with PS Mobile concidering that it is not Vita centric. I think Sony will support those things much anyway. For example, the PS3 was supported a lot even if the PSP also excisted. I expect that the same thing will happen with the PS4.

Are there any sources on that Gamecube was profitable? And how profitable was it?
 

Striek

Member
NSMB U has risen to #18 and is the sole Wii U title in the charts. I guess thats the most interesting thing?
 
Are there any sources on that Gamecube was profitable? And how profitable was it?

They've consistently had a gross profit ratio of between 35-45% and during the GC years an operating income ratio of around 20%. The GBA certainly helped them at the time, but I remember reports that the machine was profitable quite early on, and it had a tie ratio approaching 10 or something like that when the PS2 was apparently between 10-12. Bear in mind they make royalties on all of their own software and third party software, and its pretty hard to imagine it being anything other than profitable really. In a sense, you can look at the original Wii as a continuation of investment in the Gamecube architecture too (duck tape yadda yadda), and that was wildly profitable.

Historic sales (units): http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/xls/consolidated_sales_e1209.xls (208,570,000 Gamecube games sold between 2003-2009)
Historic income: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/xls/consolidated_pl_e1209.xls
 

DrWong

Member
NSMB U has risen to #18 and is the sole Wii U title in the charts. I guess thats the most interesting thing?

No, the most interesting thing is to know how Wonderbook is charting in Germany... :p

Sure, it's interesting even if it doesn't tell us much about the hardware performance. And where's NSMB 2 (3DS) in the list?
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
No, the most interesting thing is to know how Wonderbook is charting in Germany... :p

Sure, it's interesting even if it doesn't tell us much about the hardware performance. And where's NSMB 2 (3DS) in the list?

If you're talking about Germany, Gamona had it 4th, so it should be the same in the Media Biz Chart.
 

Mad_Ban

Member
Any info about how the £120 PS3 did over the sales period? Seemed like a great deal for anyone who hadn't transitioned to next-gen.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Thinking about German charts, I'm wondering if they include sales of bundled games. It seems they don't, since Nintendo Land debuted around 31st and it went out of the charts very quickly, while NSMBU started at 9th and then stayed in charts, but maybe I'm wrong.
 

DrWong

Member
Ah, cheers!

I'm going to make the logical assumption that the other 99 are Vita games.

Going by the UK trend I'd say the 17 first are Vita games.


Edit:
Thinking about German charts, I'm wondering if they include sales of bundled games. It seems they don't, since Nintendo Land debuted around 31st and it went out of the charts very quickly, while NSMBU started at 9th and then stayed in charts, but maybe I'm wrong.

Well, if the Nintendo Land Premium bundle is the best seller perhaps you're into something. If it's the basic one it would just mean NSMB U is a better seller than Nintendo Land.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
They've consistently had a gross profit ratio of between 35-45% and during the GC years an operating income ratio of around 20%. The GBA certainly helped them at the time, but I remember reports that the machine was profitable quite early on, and it had a tie ratio approaching 10 or something like that when the PS2 was apparently between 10-12. Bear in mind they make royalties on all of their own software and third party software, and its pretty hard to imagine it being anything other than profitable really. In a sense, you can look at the original Wii as a continuation of investment in the Gamecube architecture too (duck tape yadda yadda), and that was wildly profitable.

Historic sales (units): http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/xls/consolidated_sales_e1209.xls (208,570,000 Gamecube games sold between 2003-2009)
Historic income: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/xls/consolidated_pl_e1209.xls
That is unfortunately the problem, that they include sales from other systems as well. I dont doubt that the Gamecube could have been profitable, but how much are we talking about? We need to know the total R&D and management cost surrounding everything Gamecube related, and then know how much of the Nintendo income/profit that came from the Gamecube and not from their other businesses. I think it is impossible to know this based on Nintendo's reports, unfortunately. Thanks for the links :)


Real talk? I feel Nintendo will scrap the Wii U in the next 2 yearz. They've really messed up
The only reason to do this if they want to replace it with something else. It takes a long time to come up with something else, so the WiiU will still be in the market 2 years from now.
 
They've consistently had a gross profit ratio of between 35-45% and during the GC years an operating income ratio of around 20%. The GBA certainly helped them at the time, but I remember reports that the machine was profitable quite early on, and it had a tie ratio approaching 10 or something like that when the PS2 was apparently between 10-12. Bear in mind they make royalties on all of their own software and third party software, and its pretty hard to imagine it being anything other than profitable really. In a sense, you can look at the original Wii as a continuation of investment in the Gamecube architecture too (duck tape yadda yadda), and that was wildly profitable.

Historic sales (units): http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/xls/consolidated_sales_e1209.xls (208,570,000 Gamecube games sold between 2003-2009)
Historic income: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/xls/consolidated_pl_e1209.xls

Besides, from what I can recall software sales were quite decent for some of the biggest releases - Smash bros melee, Wind waker, Mario kart double dash, even Mario sunshine sold some million copies worldwide although it failed to reach Mario 64's numbers iirc, and also some third parties games such as Resident evil rebirth fared well - so I see how Gamecube was profitable on the whole.
 

FreeMufasa

Junior Member
That is unfortunately the problem, that they include sales from other systems as well. I dont doubt that the Gamecube could have been profitable, but how much are we talking about? We need to know the total R&D and management cost surrounding everything Gamecube related, and then know how much of the Nintendo income/profit that came from the Gamecube and not from their other businesses. I think it is impossible to know this based on Nintendo's reports, unfortunately. Thanks for the links :)



The only reason to do this if they want to replace it with something else. It takes a long time to come up with something else, so the WiiU will still be in the market 2 years from now.

Yea dats what I think. I bet they were thinkin mario was gonna be enough to carry them. I think this is the last time Nintendo will release pussy weak hardware,
 
Well, if the Nintendo Land Premium bundle is the best seller perhaps you're into something. If it's the basic one it would just mean NSMB U is a better seller than Nintendo Land.

Everything we know so far brings us to reasonably believe Premium bundles are outselling Basic bundles by a large margin, but until we have official numbers to back this up, we cannot say for sure.

At all events, looking at charts I gather NSMBU is having a monstrous tie-ratio compared to install base, it's the one game pretty much all Wii U early adopters are purchasing atm.
 
Thinking about German charts, I'm wondering if they include sales of bundled games. It seems they don't, since Nintendo Land debuted around 31st and it went out of the charts very quickly, while NSMBU started at 9th and then stayed in charts, but maybe I'm wrong.


Unless I'm missing sth. they can't possibly include sales of bundled games, because there is no way NSMBU could possibly be at 18 and Nintendo Land at 101+ in that scenario (considering that the Premium is, most likely, selling far better than the Basic unit).
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Yea dats what I think. I bet they were thinkin mario was gonna be enough to carry them. I think this is the last time Nintendo will release pussy weak hardware,
I think that WiiU's sales result will affect Nintendo's next console in some way regarding hardware, but i think that Nintendo wont try to compete on the hardware power front. I think they will try to come up with their own ideas instead, trying to differenciate their system from the competition.
 
That is unfortunately the problem, that they include sales from other systems as well. I dont doubt that the Gamecube could be profitable, but how much are we talking about? We need to know the total R&D and management cost surrounding everything Gamecube related, and then know how much of the Nintendo income/profit that came from the Gamecube and not from their other businesses. I think it is impossible to know this based on Nintendo's reports, unfortunately. Thanks for the links :)

It's a fairly sure thing they'd have made significant profits IMO...
208.5 million pieces of software sold, they'll have made money on every one through royalties, and of course they keep all profit relating to their own games. They'd started a couple of forays into peripherals too -- probably sold more controllers than any other manufacturer (lots of 4 player games, wavebird), GBA/GC cables, the GBA player etc. It does depend on their investments of course, but as I say - the hardware itself reportedly became profitable with only one game purchase and it had a tie ratio of around 10.

Super Smash Bros Melee - 7+ million (March 2008)
Mario Kart Double Dash!! - ~7 million
Super Mario Sunshine - 5.5 million (Jun 2006)
LoZ: Wind Waker - 4.6 million (as at 2010)
Metroid Prime - 2m+, MP2: Echoes - 800k (subsequently re-released on Wii in Trilogy)

Those were respectable figures for the time, but Mario's sales have been blown out of the water by more recent releases. A few standout successes with third parties too - REmake and RE4 ended up performing reasonably well, Beyond Good & Evil, Burnout 2 and Timesplitters 2 outsold Xbox counterparts IIRC

GBA was the real cash cow of the day, but I'm betting GC didn't do too badly for them, financially speaking
 
Sweden

01./07. [WII] Just Dance 4
02./10. [360] Halo 4
03./03. [PS3] FIFA 13
04./02. [WII] Just Dance 4
05./06. [360] FIFA 13
06./RE. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 Academy Edition
07./09. [PS3] Call of Duty Black Ops 2
08./14. [3DS] New Super Mario Bros. 2
09./11. [PS3] NHL 13
10./RE. [PC] Sims 3 Seasons
11./05. [WII] Skylander Giants Starter Pack
12./18. [360] Call of Duty Black Ops 2
13./08. [PS3] Lego Lord of the Rings
14./04. [360] Assassin's Creed 3
15./13. [PC] World of Warcraft Game Card
16./01. [PS3] Assassin's Creed 3
17./17. [PS3] Far Cry 3
18./15. [360] Lego Lord of the Rings
19./16. [360] NHL 13
20./12. [WII] Lego Lord of the Rings

Norway

01./01. [PS3] FIFA 13
02./02. [PS3] Call of Duty Black Ops 2
03./05. [PS3] Far Cry 3
04./04. [3DS] New Super Mario Bros. 2
05./10. [PS3] PlayStation Network Voucher 200
06./10. [PS3] Need for Speed Most Wanted
07./06. [PS3] Lego Lord of the Rings
08./19. [PS3] Assassin's Creed 3
09./11. [360] Far Cry 3
10./16. [360] Halo 4
11./17. [PC] Football Manager 2013
12./13. [WII] Just Dance 4
13./08. [PS3] Skylanders Giants Starter Pack
14./09. [WII] Skylanders Giants Starter Pack
15./07. [PS3] Assassin's Creed 3
16./14. [360] FIFA 13
17./18. [WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U
18./20. [PS3] Disney Epic Mickey 2: The Power of Two
19./RE. [PS3] Live Card 400
20./15. [WII] Disney Epic Mickey 2: The Power of Two

Finland

01./01. [PS3] Singstar Suomihuiput
02./02. [PS3] NHL 13
03./03. [PS3] Call of Duty Black Ops 2
04./04. [PS3] Need for Speed Most Wanted
05./05. [PS3] Angry Birds Trilogy
06./07. [PS3] Book of Spells
07./06. [PC] Angry Birds Star Wars
08./15. [PS3] Sports Champion 2
09./19. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 Academy Ediiton
10./12. [PS3] Ratchet & Clank QForce
11./RE. [PS3] PlayStation Network Card 20 Euro
12./16. [3DS] New Super Mario Bros. 2
13./13. [360] NHL 13
14./11. [PS3] FIFA 13
15./10. [PS3] Assassin's Creed 3
16./RE. [360] Halo 4
17./09. [PS3] Lego Lord of the Rings
18./14. [PS3] Far Cry 3
19./08. [PS3] Singstar Suomihuiput + Langattomat Mikit
20./20. [360] Angry Birds Trilogy

Denmark

01./01. [PS3] FIFA 13
02./02. [WII] Just Dance 4
03./05. [PS3] Call of Duty Black Ops 2
04./04. [WII] Just Dance 4
05./06. [PS3] Assassin's Creed 3
06./08. [PS3] Far Cry 3
07./03. [WII] Skylanders Giants Starter Pack
08./09. [PS3] Need for Speed Most Wanted
09./11. [PS3] Lego Lord of the Rings
10./14. [3DS] New Super Mario Bros. 2
11./07. [PS3] Skylanders Giants Starter Pack
12./12. [PC] Football Manager 2013
13./13. [360] Far Cry 3
14./RE. [PS3] Hitman Absolution
15./15. [PC] Assassin's Creed 3
16./10. [PS3] Assassin's Creed 3
17./19. [PC] Call of Duty Black Ops 2
18./RE. [PC] World of Warcraft Game Card
19./20. [PC] World of Warcraft Mists of Pandaria
20./17. [PS3] FIFA 13 Bonus Edition


http://www.gfkhitlist.com/game.aspx
 

Hanmik

Member
ehhh.. how can just dance 4 be twice on the DK charts..?

01./01. [PS3] FIFA 13
02./02. [WII] Just Dance 4
03./05. [PS3] Call of Duty Black Ops 2
04./04. [WII] Just Dance 4
05./06. [PS3] Assassin's Creed 3
06./08. [PS3] Far Cry 3

???
 
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