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ULTROS! · Jul 25, 2013

http://gematsu.com/2013/07/dragons-crown-vanillawares-most-expensive-project

Dragons Crown is actually the first title our company has developed that has gone over the 100 million yen (around one million dollars) wall in costs, he said. Im very thankful to have met the release date without problems.

I wonder how much Odin's Sphere and Muramasa took to make then...

Karsticles · Jul 25, 2013

Muramasa must have been cheap, because Kamitani said they funded it with all of their profit from Odin Sphere...which could not have been a lot.

Here's to making DC their most successful game!

Psycho_Mantis · Jul 25, 2013

I think it will be their best selling title too.

SanguineShark · Jul 25, 2013

Animating the Sorceress's breasts must have been expensive.

Eusis · Jul 25, 2013

This does explain why selling at $30 was suicide! Well, I guess it'd have been fine if it managed to get a million sales or something, but we know a few hundred thousand was the best it could hope for.

DigitalDevilSummoner · Jul 25, 2013

What's the retail price then ? it might have been their most expensive game but it doesn't feel right paying the same moneys I paid for the Last of us. Sony has the Puppeteer nicely priced.

Teknopathetic · Jul 25, 2013

"What's the retail price then ? it might have been their most expensive game but it doesn't feel right paying the same moneys I paid for the Last of us"

Yeah, I also feel like The Last of Us might've been overpriced.

Squire · Jul 25, 2013

It shows.

joe2187 · Jul 25, 2013

DigitalDevilSummoner said:
What's the retail price then ? it might have been their most expensive game but it doesn't feel right paying the same moneys I paid for the Last of us. Sony has the Puppeteer nicely priced.

This is the wrong attitude.

PaulExcellent · Jul 25, 2013

DigitalDevilSummoner said:
What's the retail price then ? it might have been their most expensive game but it doesn't feel right paying the same moneys I paid for the Last of us. Sony has the Puppeteer nicely priced.

I don't understand.
Are games not to be priced at $60 unless they match The Last Of Us, or something?
Because that is balls.

I have NOT played it yet, so I dunno.

Psycho_Mantis · Jul 25, 2013

Eusis said:
This does explain why selling at $30 was suicide! Well, I guess it'd have been fine if it managed to get a million sales or something, but we know a few hundred thousand was the best it could hope for.

Wut? With a budget of 1 million, surely they could make a profit by selling 100 000 or so

AniHawk · Jul 25, 2013

Pyscho_Mantis said:
Wut? With a budget of 1 million, surely they could make a profit by selling 100 000 or so

that's assuming they would take more than 33% off each game sale.

(they very likely wouldn't take more than 33% off each game sale)

Mauricio_Magus · Jul 25, 2013

I don't buy games day 1 anymore, and I'm buying DC day freaking 1, 50 bucks seems like a good price for a game as gorgeous as Dragon's Crown.

DigitalDevilSummoner said:
What's the retail price then ? it might have been their most expensive game but it doesn't feel right paying the same moneys I paid for the Last of us. Sony has the Puppeteer nicely priced.

I don't get why the game should have a lower value because it's not a RPG.

joe2187 · Jul 25, 2013

PaulExcellent said:
I don't understand.
Are games not to be priced at $60 unless they match The Last Of Us, or something?
Because that is balls.

I have NOT played it yet, so I dunno.

Tits too big, no bra, Immersion lost.

would not buy.

Pwn · Jul 25, 2013

Epicine said:
Animating the Sorceress's breasts must have been expensive.

But game won't sell well without it.

PaulExcellent · Jul 25, 2013

joe2187 said:
Tits too big

There is no such thing.

THERE IS NO. SUCH. THING.

Striek · Jul 25, 2013

$1 million? Even for their projects that seems small. Can't imagine it'll be hard to recoup those costs.

MCD · Jul 25, 2013

Gotta release more figures to cover up that cost

Psycho_Mantis · Jul 25, 2013

AniHawk said:
that's assuming they would take more than 33% off each game sale.

(they very likely wouldn't take more than 33% off each game sale)

How much would they get?

Even at 10% selling over 166 000 will give them profits.

Napalm_Frank · Jul 25, 2013

The interesting thing is that 1 million isn't anything in todays game budgets. Still looks great as hell.

How big is Vanillaware team? Edit: wikipedia has old number of 23. Quite small indeed but it isn't up to date.

JDSN · Jul 25, 2013

Remember that for some reason some gamers don't think 2D and isometric should be priced beyond $20 it's one of the reasons of there aren't many beat em ups or isometric RPGs these days.

No Love · Jul 25, 2013

DigitalDevilSummoner said:
What's the retail price then ? it might have been their most expensive game but it doesn't feel right paying the same moneys I paid for the Last of us. Sony has the Puppeteer nicely priced.

I hate you. People like you are why "AAA" games are killing the industry.

Napalm_Frank · Jul 25, 2013

NoLoveForFailWheelDrive said:
I hate you. People like you are why "AAA" games are killing the industry.

I can still see where he is coming from. If there are two games that have same pricepoints the people will go for the big budget blockbuster no matter how good the other game is. I think low price point is a big reason for the surprisingly successful Sly 4. Also the pricepoint is a big reason why FUSE did absolutely terrible. A game like that you can see a mile away will just bomb like hell with 70€ pricetag. Industry needs to use lower pricepoints more often. I'm not really sure this applies to DC tho, I think it will do relatively well especially with a small budget like that.

morikaze · Jul 25, 2013

Napalm_Frank said:
If there are two games that have same pricepoints the people will go for the big budget blockbuster no matter how good the other game is.

Not me. I appreciate the work that goes into a game like Dragon's Crown as much as or even more than something like TLOU. I don't have a PS3 or Vita, but i'd feel okay with paying even $60 for a game like this. It actually is more deserving of the money because I see it more as real art and the time and skill needed to craft high quality hand drawn art like this is astounding.

No Love · Jul 25, 2013

Napalm_Frank said:
I can still see where he is coming from. If there are two games that have same pricepoints the people will go for the big budget blockbuster no matter how good the other game is. I think low price point is a big reason for the surprisingly successful Sly 4. Also the pricepoint is a big reason why FUSE did absolutely terrible. A game like that you can see a mile away will just bomb like hell with 70 pricetag. Industry needs to use lower pricepoints more often. I'm not really sure this applies to DC tho, I think it will do relatively well especially with a small budget like that.

Let's be honest, people are stupid. They'll pay $60 for a 6 hour "AAA" game, but are like 'lol $50 too much for a 2D gaem, y no $20 MSRP?'

If you're a hardcore gamer and you think $50 is too much for a game like Dragon's Crown that's been worked on for years by a small studio and offers an experience that is both fresh and a homage to the classics of the past, get out of the hobby.

That being said, I pre-ordered both the PS3 and Vita versions of Dragon's Crown, so I'm in the minority here since I'm down to pay $96 after tax for two copies of the same game. But I don't mind paying a bit extra to support Atlus/Vanillaware if it brings me more games like Dragon's Crown.

JDSN · Jul 25, 2013

Napalm_Frank said:
I can still see where he is coming from. If there are two games that have same pricepoints the people will go for the big budget blockbuster no matter how good the other game is. I think low price point is a big reason for the surprisingly successful Sly 4. Also the pricepoint is a big reason why FUSE did absolutely terrible. A game like that you can see a mile away will just bomb like hell with 70 pricetag. Industry needs to use lower pricepoints more often. I'm not really sure this applies to DC tho, I think it will do relatively well especially with a small budget like that.

Fuse bombed cos it looked rubbish despite decent production values, its extremely arbitrary to ask for certain genres to be cheaper just because. No one ever tried to make a case for Gears or Wars being full priced despite costing 9million. The price complains are always limited to a small group of genres despite having high production values like The wonderful 101 and Rayman.

Mauricio_Magus · Jul 25, 2013

Napalm_Frank said:
I can still see where he is coming from. If there are two games that have same pricepoints the people will go for the big budget blockbuster no matter how good the other game is. I think low price point is a big reason for the surprisingly successful Sly 4. Also the pricepoint is a big reason why FUSE did absolutely terrible. A game like that you can see a mile away will just bomb like hell with 70€ pricetag. Industry needs to use lower pricepoints more often. I'm not really sure this applies to DC tho, I think it will do relatively well especially with a small budget like that.

Nope, I'm buying Dragon's Crown and I don't even care about most of the "blockbuster" games of this year so far.

I don't care how much money goes into the game or marketing, a good game is a good game.

nephilimdj · Jul 25, 2013

Im buying it digtally, im supporting this great game

Napalm_Frank · Jul 25, 2013

JDSN said:
Fuse bombed cos it looked rubbish despite decent production values, its extremely arbitrary to ask for certain genres to be cheaper just because. No one ever tried to make a case for Gears or Wars being full priced despite costing 9million. The price complains are always limited to a small group of genres despite having high production values like The wonderful 101 and Rayman.

That is just the way it is. When Puppeteer for example was revealed every thread about it was 90% of the people thinking it was a PSN or Vita title just because of how it looks and that is on GAF where people supposedly are lil more informed than your general casual player. I think the 40$ price point is a reaction to that kind of mindset that is there nowdays. If you don't have a Mario on the cover your 2D platformer needs to be a 10$ downloadable title ect.

And oh I know FUSE bombed cause it looks mediocre as shit. That is why it was insane for them to go full price, I think they could possibly salvaged some sales by going for 40$ price point or something with games like TLOU looming just a few weeks later. Nobody is gonna buy that shit from a hardcore or impulse buy perspective.

JoeFenix · Jul 25, 2013

Who cares how much a game costs to make relative to how much they sell it for?

You should look at the end product and decide if it's worth the purchase at that price or not.

So sick of this 10$ or bust mentality that alot of people seem to have in regards to 2D games. And to the guy who said that you should always buy the "blockbuster" type production if they are both the same price.... Why? What does it matter if it took 1000 guys and ridiculous amounts of money to create something?

End result is what matters, sometimes big productions are impressive and sometimes smaller productions are impressive. Both have their pros and cons, more money means more expectations and can definitely dilute the end product. Low budget means you can't put everything you might want to in there but the vision is probably less dumbed down. Obviously some games in both camps manage to deal with those issues better than others.

B-tier games like this one are usually the most interesting in a consoles library when all is said and done. Enough budget to realize their vision but not enough financial pressure to cripple originality. I'm actually surprised the budget is that low for Vanillaware games, some "indie" kickstarter games have a bigger budget and look much cheaper.

Tizoc · Jul 25, 2013

nephilimdj said:
Im buying it digtally, im supporting this great game

iirc, both digital and Retail are crossbuy right? Either way digital for me, although I fear what the size is for the vita ver. lol.

Speaking of which, isn't the digital ver. out in Japan?

lazer_bean · Jul 25, 2013

Napalm_Frank said:
I can still see where he is coming from. If there are two games that have same pricepoints the people will go for the big budget blockbuster no matter how good the other game is. I think low price point is a big reason for the surprisingly successful Sly 4. Also the pricepoint is a big reason why FUSE did absolutely terrible. A game like that you can see a mile away will just bomb like hell with 70 pricetag. Industry needs to use lower pricepoints more often. I'm not really sure this applies to DC tho, I think it will do relatively well especially with a small budget like that.

i agree but a lower pricepoint may give the impression that the game isn't good or wouldn't sell at regular price.
I read that a lot on GAF too, there was a game recently (can't remember which one, sorry) that wasnt "full price" and the comments were pretty much "bomba incoming" (it could have been a bad game though, i really don't remember)

eso76 · Jul 25, 2013

Wouldn't releasing it on more platforms increase potential sales though ?
Game should be easy to port, is there an exclusivity deal or something ?

Napalm_Frank · Jul 25, 2013

And to the guy who said that you should always buy the "blockbuster" type production if they are both the same price.... Why? What does it matter if it took 1000 guys and ridiculous amounts of money to create something?

I didn't say that at all. I just think most people will go for the new ''AAA'' game from SEActisoft regardless how good the games are. Thus some games could use a lower price point as a strategy against that regardless if it is worth less. And as I said I don't think DC is one of those games that need to do this anyway. Thanks for reading my post tho

i agree but a lower pricepoint may give the impression that the game isn't good or wouldn't sell at regular price.
I read that a lot on GAF too, there was a game recently (can't remember which one, sorry) that wasnt "full price" and the comments were pretty much "bomba incoming" (it could have been a bad game though, i really don't remember)

I actually don't think this is the case nowdays. There is so broad price range with the rise of indie and digital services that I don't think people think like that at all. And I dunno what game you are talking about but GAF ''bomba'' stuff is usually just joking around when there is a deal of any kind anywhere.

Bikram · Jul 25, 2013

They should have made it cross-buy at least.

And wait Sly 4 was a success? If that's true, it makes me very happy

thetrin · Jul 25, 2013

Tizoc said:
iirc, both digital and Retail are crossbuy right? Either way digital for me, although I fear what the size is for the vita ver. lol.

Speaking of which, isn't the digital ver. out in Japan?

Nope, no cross buy.

JoeFenix · Jul 25, 2013

Napalm_Frank said:
I didn't say that at all. I just think most people will go for the new ''AAA'' game from SEActisoft regardless how good the games are. Thus some games could use a lower price point as a strategy against that regardless if it is worth less. And as I said I don't think DC is one of those games that need to do this anyway. Thanks for reading my post tho

Sorry, I just skimmed through the posts in the thread.

To address your point though, I think those people still wouldn't really be interested at a 30$ price point. Games like DC would never sell 10 million copies regardless of price, I just don't think they have that kind of appeal.

Target your audience and sell it to them at a price that keeps you in business and isn't exploitative relative to the content on offer. Smaller publishers like Atlus and XSeed seem to be doing that pretty well.

duckroll · Jul 25, 2013

Karsticles said:
Muramasa must have been cheap, because Kamitani said they funded it with all of their profit from Odin Sphere...which could not have been a lot.

Here's to making DC their most successful game!

That makes no sense. Why would they have funded the game themselves if MMV published it. They don't own the IP either. Any profit from Odin Sphere would probably have gone to Atlus too, since they own the IP and they paid for the development of the game.

JordanN · Jul 25, 2013

eso76 said:
Wouldn't releasing it on more platforms increase potential sales though ?
Game should be easy to port, is there an exclusivity deal or something ?

Maybe they don't got dev kits?

They have no history with Xbox which would be the second most viable console to port.

Zephyx · Jul 25, 2013

eso76 said:
Wouldn't releasing it on more platforms increase potential sales though ?
Game should be easy to port, is there an exclusivity deal or something ?

1st question: It really depends. If you go multiplat, it also incurs cost due to additional development and testing. Sometimes, the sales are not enough to recuperate the costs when going multiplat. Ultimately, it's the publisher's/funder's choice if they want to take the risk.

2nd question: No, I don't think so.

Tizoc · Jul 25, 2013

thetrin said:
Nope, no cross buy.

No biggy then, 60 FPS and 4 player on PS3 will be fine as is =)

IncandescentPrecept · Jul 25, 2013

$1M? Shouldn't be too hard to make a decent profit on that game.

duckroll · Jul 25, 2013

IncandescentPrecept said:
$1M? Shouldn't be too hard to make a decent profit on that game.

Index certainly thinks so, which is why they're selling it for 90 bucks in Japan!

Napalm_Frank · Jul 25, 2013

I bet DC has had the best marketing of all the VW games too thanks to all the ''controversy'' reporting.

LunaticHigh · Jul 25, 2013

I'd assume the online part of the game is what brought the cost up for them, though I'd be willing to bet sony would have handled part of that cost.

Excited!

duckroll · Jul 25, 2013

LunaticHigh said:
I'd assume the online part of the game is what brought the cost up for them, though I'd be willing to bet sony would have handled part of that cost.

Excited!

Why would it have brought up the cost?

Tizoc · Jul 25, 2013

duckroll said:
Index certainly thinks so, which is why they're selling it for 90 bucks in Japan!

Everything's expensive in Japan, isn't JoJo ASB $80-90?

cw_sasuke · Jul 25, 2013

Man their games are cheap...first game to cost more than 1million usd ? Wow....their are probably western indie games with bigger budgets.

crinale · Jul 25, 2013

They should be able to recoop cost by Japanese market, let alone international.

DigitalDevilSummoner · Jul 25, 2013

NoLoveForFailWheelDrive said:
I hate you. People like you are why "AAA" games are killing the industry.

I sound like a dick but I am a realist.

TLOU was probably a bad comparison but I do believe that Sony made a good move with the pricing of the Puppeteer. This is not about my preferences, this is about attracting a wider audience.

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