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Is your connotation of the term "JRPG" negative?

I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I wanted to make this thread for a long time because i wanted somewhere i could essentially talk about it without getting sidetracked on other topics. What spurred it on was the apparent resurgence of a lot of Japanese made RPG titles on console recently.

We have plenty of conversations about "what makes a JRPG", "what counts as a JRPG" and the like, but for those games which are classified as JRPG, how are they perceived by the public in comparison to say a western RPG?

Based on my time on Japanese blogs and such, it seems like a lot of Japanese misunderstand and interpret "J" in the term as an inherent separation and a looking down on their domestic RPG's, as if they are inferior to western games

This particular website for example made an entire multi section manifesto essentially saying that the term "JRPGS" is a term to demean and demonize Japanese RPG's based on what they say is western supposed racial and cultural superiority. Even bringing back IGN's controversial article on "how to fix JRPGS"

http://www.gamespark.jp/article/2015/03/22/55732.html

http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/01/12/top-10-ways-to-fix-jrpgs


This mindset has even somehow been established into developers like Monolith, who were offended by questions asked by Gamepot reporters about Xenoblade being "a great JRPG" and their idea on Xenoblade X continuing that trend.

http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/8232889.html

I honestly felt like it was a mindset created in someone's head due to their own paranoia about their cultural identity. But then my mind shifted to the current industry and media which can sometimes make controversy or be somewhat biased in coverage about what comes out of Japan, either because it does not emulate western titles, or because its just 'so weird not of my culture' and it got me thinking.

Is there really an overt negative connotation to the term "JRPG" and what it brings out in people's minds at large?

What do you guys personally think?
 
A

antitrop

Member
When I was growing up, JRPGs were just called "Console RPGs". I think JRPG is a hell of a lot more endearing than that was.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Inuhanyou said:
This particular website for example made an entire multi section manifesto essentially saying that the term "JRPGS" is a term to demean and demonize Japanese RPG's based on what they say is western supposed racial and cultural superiority. Even bringing back IGN's controversial article on "how to fix JRPGS"

http://www.gamespark.jp/article/2015/03/22/55732.html

...

This mindset has even somehow been established into developers like Monolith, who were offended by questions asked by Gamepot reporters about Xenoblade being "a great JRPG" and their idea on Xenoblade X continuing that trend.

http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/8232889.html
Click to expand...
I can't read Japanese. Most people on this board can't read Japanese. How the hell are we supposed to comment on stuff we can't even read?

I don't personally consider the term "JRPG" to be negative (I do feel the use of it as a genre term is ridiculous with the variety of Japanese RPGs), but that doesn't mean much when I can't read the evidence you did post to show that people use it with negative connotations.
 
Alboreo

Alboreo

Member
I don't personally associate JRPG with negativity, although I still love the genre. I definitely get the vibe that the world at large thinks of it as a negative thing, though.
 
T

To Far Away Times

Member
I think JRPGs started getting weird when graphics caught up to what the developers wanted to show.

I love the classic Final Fantasy games, but the new ones... eh.
 
M

Matty77

Member
Nope. But then again I don't like the regional seperation and the goalpost moving between the sides.

I just like RPG's and I separate them by things like turn based, action, open world, etc. if I enjoy it I really don't care what part of the world it came from or artstyle.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
Nope but there is the feeling that some do view it slighly less favorable....I guess its dismissal in list wars™ gives off that impression. Notwithstanding the fact that AAA caliber JRPG's aren't marketed as well as Western RPGs. Hopefully there is a renaissance in appetite for them in the West with FFVII remake, the new main entry and Sony's new IPs.
 
F

Finale Fireworker

Member
When I was growing up in the nineties and early millennium, there was nothing lamer than a "JRPG," which might as well have meant "Interactive Anime" for the people who used the genre as a punching bag.

Nowadays, with the (arguable) degradation of the Japanese games industry, I think there is an aversion now based on quality when growing up there was an aversion based on culture.

Ultimately, I tend to find the term in a modern context mostly meaningless.
 
T

thewhitehawk

Member
Not really, but I do understand that there's a very large cultural gap between western gamers and jRPG appreciators. It's far too easy to dismiss a lot of jRPGs as teenage power fantasies, and to be fair a lot of them are, but the same can be said about most western games that pretend to be mature and hardcore when in fact they are meant to be power fantasies to appeal to young to young adult demographic. The only difference is the approach and the art style.

The way that, for example, Ar Tonelico approaches character development and relationships has for maturity and nuance than most of Bioware's "give the right give, compliment 20 times" approach to them, but I'm near certain people would much sooner dismiss Ar Tonelico than Dragon Age.
 
M

MatrixMan.EXE

Member
When I think JRPG, I think Digimon World, Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, Grandia, Alundra, Ys, Legend of Heroes, Seiken Densetsu, Persona, the Souls games....so...nah, my connotations of the term JRPG are not negative.

And yes, I think the Souls games absolutely count as JRPGs.
 
V

VanillaCakeIsBurning

Member
I think in the West at least the term JRPG is positive for people who actively play them. There may be some disappointment regarding the lack of big budget console JRPGs but there's still good products coming out even if it doesn't exactly match or exceed whatever time period people want to refer to as a golden age.

It's negative for people who haven't played any for over 10 years but like to speak as if they know anything about what's come out in the last decade or so. Just look for the statements about JPRGs being all about grinding for hours and you'll know you've found one of these people.

That said, I didn't know that JRPG is considered to be a negative term on Japanese social media. I don't think its negativity there is all encompassing as you still have Japanese developers using the term themselves like Imageepoch for example in their mission statement but I can definitely see why negativity over the term would be created in Japan due to how much negative media there is about it from Western gaming press.
 
B

Brokun

Member
To me personally JRPG is a genre, like a Sports game, or FPS. It doesn't evoke feelings of positivity or negativity, as each game in the JRPG genre is judged on it's own merits.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
It's become so in my head, but not because of other people. I just started losing interest in the direction most of the games went and after playing several action RPGs I realized I was done with menu turn-based games. Some of my favorite games are JRPGs but those were also back when I didn't identify the term - I just said RPGs. So when I think JRPG I think games post 2000-ish. My last in the genre was Xenosaga 1 and/or Final Fantasy X.

The direction of JRPGs that I've seen for the most part have not been appealing to me so when I see the title I now hesitate.
 
K

Koren

Member
Inuhanyou said:
Based on my time on Japanese blogs and such, it seems like a lot of Japanese misunderstand and interpret "J" in the term as an inherent separation and a looking down on their domestic RPG's, as if they are inferior to western games

This particular website for example made an entire multi section manifesto essentially saying that the term "JRPGS" is a term to demean and demonize Japanese RPG's based on what they say is western supposed racial and cultural superiority. Even bringing back IGN's controversial article on "how to fix JRPGS"
Click to expand...
That's interesting, because for me, it's the exact opposite... "JRPG" means "a RPG that worth looking at".

Take note that it's *my* personnal preferences... I've enjoyed playing a couple "WRPG", but that they don't interest me much most of the time. I really think there's a different take on the RPG genre, probably partly based on culture I guess...
 
D

Daingurse

Member
When I was younger, JRPG had a very positive connotation. Levels, Stats, and Turn-based combat were all traits I attributed to JRPGs growing up, and to me at the time those were all inherently positive things. Now, JRPG has no real connotation at all for me, it just means "Japanese Role-Playing Game". I don't really play as many JRPGs nowadays, and feel very neutral towards the genre. I still pick up games that interest me, but I don't have the hunger for JRPGs that I had in my tweens and teens, it's gone.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
I guess one problem with the JRPG is that it's treated as a "genre" when it includes completely different types of games. Pokemon, Final Fantasy 7, Paper Mario, Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, and Xenoblade Chronicles X are all "JRPGs", yet they play completely different and have different presentation styles.

And then you have people denying Dark Souls or Dragon's Dogma are JRPGs based solely on presentation.
sublimit said:
When you say that Monolith got offended by the term what did they actually said?
Click to expand...
That's the problem, it's in Japanese.
 
B

bounchfx

Member
it wasnt until they mostly started being bad/stale to me. still love the classics though, and id love to see them have a quality resurgence like crpgs just did
 
T

TheGreatLugia

Banned
Inuhanyou said:
This mindset has even somehow been established into developers like Monolith, who were offended by questions asked by Gamepot reporters about Xenoblade being "a great JRPG" and their idea on Xenoblade X continuing that trend.

http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/8232889.html
Click to expand...

Is this the Gamespot interview that link refers to? They didn't seem offended by it. Here are some quotes from Tetsuya Takahashi on the subject:
Personally, I don't feel people are saying anything negative when they say "JRPG," rather, I feel like it's become a genre category at this point, the same way you might have an action movie or a horror movie. If people say JRPG, then they're just trying to designate a certain approach to the subject matter or a certain way of dealing with themes, because it's nothing negative in general. I'm very happy with that usage.
Click to expand...
You may not be aware of this, but I think a lot of the time when people use JRPG in the Japanese market, they actually do have negative feelings that are building up behind that. Unless the rest of the world shares those negative connotations, then that's not something I would worry about at all.
Click to expand...
I like to think about the fact that even in the US market, you guys say "comics," but you also say "manga." The two words designate the country of origin, or the style, if it's the case of someone emulating that. It's the same in Japan where we say manga, but we also say american comics. I feel like this kind of usage is similar to what we're seeing with "JRPG" being used a term outside of Japan.
Click to expand...
 
M

MagnaderAlpha

Member
I just consider it a different "style" not to be confused with WRPGs(which I also use to describe the style of RPGs from Europe and America).
 
Astral Dog

Astral Dog

Member
When i was a kid, to me games like Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger or Dragon Quest were the RPGs, no "JRPG" but just RPG.

Now obviously there is a big line between what its considered a game made in Japan versus the West, and even games like Paper Mario sometimes are not considered because they lack the traditional artstyle and thus are not "true" JRPGs.

Its a mess.
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
These days, mostly. Not that there's aren't exceptions. It used to be one of my favorite genres. Now the first thing that usually comes to my mind is fanservice. If it's not made for the hardcore Otakus that will buy every game, then it was something with a pretty awful story and boring battle system last gen.

As a whole though, no. Modern, I'll definetly give it a sideways glance before diving in.
 
K

Korigama

Member
Negative? No. That said, the genre collectively carries a different vibe about it compared to the PS1 era, or even the PS2 era as a result of differing influences and changes in target market in spite of there still being games to appeal to players who prefer games closer to what they used to get. Between having to put in more work to find things that appeal to their tastes made by JRPG developers and WRPGs having become more prominent on consoles than in the past starting in the seventh gen, I can understand to at least some extent as to why it's not uncommon for some Western players to be more negative about the former as a whole, even if don't agree with that notion.
 
C

Caronte

Member
TheGreatLugia said:
Is this the Gamespot interview that link refers to? They didn't seem offended by it. Here are some quotes from Tetsuya Takahashi on the subject:
Click to expand...

Since Yamagami Hitoshi P "We just feel that only are making a RPG, we have no idea personally and do not need to get an afterthought the" J ". "
Kawabata Shingo P "of course, I am not want to use the word" JRPG "a negative connotation"
Takahashi Tetsuya P "rather negative connotation, it is no longer felt to have become a genre of category"
Click to expand...

Who knows what they are actually saying, but it seems bad.

OP we need the translation.
 
S

SMattera

Member
The term JRPG is simply a shorthand reference to a particular kind of RPG that shares common gameplay and artistic elements. The genre originated in Japan, and most of the titles that belong to it were made there, but the Japanese aspect is ultimately unimportant. There are a fair number of indie JRPGs that were made by Americans and there are some western RPGs (Dragon's Dogma) that were made in Japan.
 
C

Cryxo93

Banned
Recent AAA console JRPGs definitely had an impact on how it's been seen as a genre. For sure. The whole seventh generation was littered with bullshit, I.E. the FF XIII series. Genre as a whole, no. I have faith that XV and Persona 5 will bring a lot of goodwill.
 
K

King Gilga

Member
Naw I love jrpgs, I might favor wrpgs more these days but that doesn't mean I don't love the former.

Nibel said:
"JRPG"? No.

"JRPG for Vita"? Yes.
Click to expand...

I kind of agree, but that goes for any Japanese ________ for vita. I play PSP jrpgs on mine for the most part.
 
T

TheGreatLugia

Banned
Caronte said:
Who knows what they are actually saying, but it seems bad.

OP we need the translation.
Click to expand...
That might be referring to this section of the interview:
Would you prefer it if there wasn't a designated separation between JRPGs and RPGs? Does it ever feel odd to have it categorized that way?

Yamagami: I feel like we just make RPGs I don't need anyone to add the "J," personally.

Kawabata: Certainly, I wouldn't want anyone to use "JRPG" in a negative way, I wouldn't want them to try to pigeon-hole a certain game with that designation if they meant something negative by it.

Takahashi: Personally, I don't feel people are saying anything negative when they say "JRPG," rather, I feel like it's become a genre category at this point, the same way you might have an action movie or a horror movie. If people say JRPG, then they're just trying to designate a certain approach to the subject matter or a certain way of dealing with themes, because it's nothing negative in general. I'm very happy with that usage.
Click to expand...
 
Soltype

Soltype

Member
bounchfx said:
it wasnt until they mostly started being bad/stale to me. still love the classics though, and id love to see them have a quality resurgence like crpgs just did
Click to expand...

I'm hoping for the same.We need smaller studios to step up to the plate, because a lot of the bigger studios have really lost their way.
 
S

SigSig

Member
Not at all! It's one of those genres I really want to play, but I somehow never get around to.
I played Persona 4 and a bit of various dungeon crawlers–Oh! and Crimson Shroud but that's about it.

It seems like the genre would click with me, though.
JRPG-Gaf, where do I start? I don't mind dated graphics.
 
G

Gator86

Member
Daingurse said:
When I was younger, JRPG had a very positive connotation. Levels, Stats, and Turn-based combat were all traits I attributed to JRPGs growing up, and to me at the time those were all inherently positive things. Now, JRPG has no real connotation at all for me, it just means "Japanese Role-Playing Game". I don't really play as many JRPGs nowadays, and feel very neutral towards the genre. I still pick up games that interest me, but I don't have he hunger for JRPGs that I had in my tweens and teens, it's gone.
Click to expand...

Yup, these are almost my exact feelings on the topic. I used to love JRPGs growing up but now I'm pretty apathetic to them. It just feels like one amazing game came out after another when I was younger and now I look at the genre and very little seems appealing at all. I think the decline of Square crushed my interest in them.
 
G

Gestault

Member
I think of the phrase "lowered standards."

It's a genre that has massive capacity to showcase great writing and characters, but at this point is just an art-style and a framework where you don't need to think up gameplay systems, as far as publishers are concerned. When an audience doesn't differentiate between good and bad as long as it's "anime-y" and has enough sexist slime, you end up with the schlock there is on the Vita. There's amazing stuff out there, but as far as the overall volume of releases is concerned, it's enough of a minority that it's harder to find in an already small genre.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Not in a general sense, but I'm very cautious when I hear about any new JRPGs coming out these days. I'm a fan of the genre and many of my fondest memories are of various JRPGs from the classics all the way up to some contemporary titles, but it's undeniable that with the various market contractions and the general otaku influence titles coming out these days tend to be pursuing....a certain set of aesthetics.

Part of this also is that I've almost always been a handheld JRPG player, at least after the SNES era. The FFVII style JRPG has never done anything for me, and so I've never gotten into the Tales games which have always seemed like "like 3D FF if it was even more inspired by anime" and such. Its hard for me to muster up too much interest in the new Star Ocean game, but I am very interested in whatever the next SMT effort on 3DS is
 
F

Finale Fireworker

Member
Koren said:
That's interesting, because for me, it's the exact opposite... "JRPG" means "a RPG that worth looking at".

Take note that it's *my* personnal preferences... I've enjoyed playing a couple "WRPG", but that they don't interest me much most of the time. I really think there's a different take on the RPG genre, probably partly based on culture I guess...
Click to expand...

For me, my apprehension towards JRPGs stems from the feeling that I already know what to expect. It's going to be about teenagers. There is probably a strange companion creature. There is a great, brooding evil being awakened and only these three kids can stop it. One of them loves to eat food. One probably has amnesia. Japanese RPGs are infamous for one foundational attribute that gets spun lots of different ways: the tropes.

This isn't to say there haven't been JRPGs that have abandoned these tropes, or used these tropes in powerful and resonating ways, because there have been JRPGs that were obviously good. But they are either just outside of the popular spotlight or left behind in the glory days of the genre.

And the argument that western games are tropey too is perfectly valid. Lots of western games are male power fantasies with gruff, brown haired protagonists. Or soldiers who think war is Hell. Or mostly silent mascots from platformers. But since I live in the west, I get to see ALL the games that come out here. And I can pick and choose and seize and avoid whatever titles I want because I always know what other westerners are playing and what's coming out when.

When your scope of the JRPG is limited to what has been popular, localized, and readily available, you are forming an opinion and having experiences based on a really small sample size.

So when I hear JRPG, I look into it pretty heavily to see if "more of the same" or something exciting. I hold no outward prejudice against the genre, but for me to play them - like any other game - it has to sell me on the concept first. And as the audience for the games has shrunk, it feels like I am mostly outside of it.

I do enjoy a lot of PS1 JRPGS that I am experiencing for the first time, though.
 
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