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BiGBoSSMk23 · Oct 23, 2015

I'm sick and tired of switching back and forth.

I have a Samsung monitor with game mode always on, that makes things nice and crisp, with vivid colours and smooth response time.

But sometimes the HDMI black level absolutely crushes the image or leaves it with a washed out gray filter on top.

My PS4 RGB setting is on auto, but playing TLOU right now is giving me a total mixed bag.

Some areas have great colour reproduction and depth on Low, while others are crushed.

And some areas are evenly lit and contrasted while others are jizzy as hell on Normal.

Any tips on this, please? A/V OCD sufferer here.

joecanada · Oct 23, 2015

Av forums is the best source for configuration settings I know what you mean though. It's total crap that games are still pitch black while others are fine

BiGBoSSMk23 · Oct 23, 2015

joecanada said:
Av forums is the best source for configuration settings I know what you mean though. It's total crap that games are still pitch black while others are fine

Yeah, First Light looks great on Normal, same with DriveClub. But TLOU is so all over the place that I have to pause and switch multiple times in a single level.

SirMossyBloke · Oct 23, 2015

Rapier said:
Yeah, First Light looks great on Normal, same with DriveClub. But TLOU is so all over the place that I have to pause and switch multiple times in a single level.

Thats not right. Something is way off.

First off don't leave the PS4 level on auto. Switch it to limited, switch your monitor to low (which is the monitor equivalent to limited). Even though it's a monitor and not a TV, I would use limited as a lot of vidya games and especially movies, are all set using limited and not full range.

edit: Sorry, low not normal. Samsung switched it some years back, to be extra confusing.

BiGBoSSMk23 · Oct 23, 2015

SirMossyBloke said:
Thats not right. Something is way off.

First off don't leave the PS4 level on auto. Switch it to limited, switch your monitor to low (which is the monitor equivalent to limited). Even though it's a monitor and not a TV, I would use limited as a lot of vidya games and especially movies, are all set using limited and not full range.

edit: Sorry, low not normal. Samsung switched it some years back, to be extra confusing.

My head is full of fuck...

Limited is the washed out look, right?

I remember everybody going on about RGB Full giving you the best performance back on PS3.

And now I read somewhere that PS4 automatically sets Full for the OS and game and limited to movies.

I don't even know...

Sayter · Oct 23, 2015

On 'slightly darker black'.

Bloodrage · Oct 23, 2015

Hard to answer this question since not all games look the same or use the same levels of black.

SirMossyBloke · Oct 23, 2015

Rapier said:
My head is full of fuck...

Limited is the washed out look, right?

I remember everybody going on about RGB Full giving you the best performance back on PS3.

And now I read somewhere that PS4 automatically sets Full for the OS and game and limited to movies.

I don't even know...

It's only washed out if your settings don't match, for example ps4 set to full, monitor set to low, and vise-versa.

You may need to recalibrate your settings once you change. Use this:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

Stranya · Oct 23, 2015

For PS4, just make sure the console and TV settings match (so either limited+low or full+normal). It's that simple. Technically having both on full range should result in a very slightly more smooth graduation across the whole range, but you won't notice the difference.

If one is set to full and the other limited, that's when you get either a washed out look or massive black crush.

Xbox full range settings have always been totally broken, resulting in black crush regardless of TV settings. So for xbox, always have it set to limited, and the TV the same (low on Samsungs).

Hope that helps.

Edit: +1 for what poster above advised about setting PS4 specifically for limited or full. Don't use the auto setting.

drotahorror · Oct 23, 2015

I have this problem with the Uncharted Collection. Most if not all other games look perfectly fine, but UC has crushed blacks everywhere.

*Have tried both full range and limited on monitor/ps4 (yes I make sure they're the same). Both have the same picture.

chaosblade · Oct 23, 2015

You just want to make sure your system matches the display, the difference is negligible unless you have settings mismatched which will either cause your picture to be washed out or black crushed.

What's with ND games and black level issues? Those seem to be the only games people are mentioning here.

mjp2417 · Oct 23, 2015

There is actually a bug with The Last of Us Remastered that affects the early nighttime level in the game (I think it's called Outskirts). The only way I found to fix it on my TV is to set RGB to Full in the PS4 settings menu while keeping your TV set to RGB limited. Once you get out of the underground area you'll want to set it back to Limited otherwise you will get crushed blacks. It's the only section in the game that has this problem.

BiGBoSSMk23 · Oct 23, 2015

mjp2417 said:
There is actually a bug with The Last of Us Remastered that affects the early nighttime level in the game (I think it's called Outskirts). The only way I found to fix it on my TV is to set RGB to Full in the PS4 settings menu while keeping your TV set to RGB limited. Once you get out of the underground area you'll want to set it back to Limited otherwise you will get crushed blacks. It's the only section in the game that has this problem.

Curious.

Anyhow, HDMI Black level Low on my Sammy monitor results in loss of detail, but sometimes on Normal it can go the opposite way and give me that grayish over bright image.

I'm betting I wouldn't have this issue if I had an OLED. :/

SirMossyBloke · Oct 23, 2015

Rapier said:
Curious.

Anyhow, HDMI Black level Low on my Sammy monitor results in loss of detail, but sometimes on Normal it can go the opposite way and give me that grayish over bright image.

I'm betting I wouldn't have this issue if I had an OLED. :/

If it's set to low on your monitor and you changed the PS4 to limited there should be no loss of detail at all.

DJ_Lae · Oct 23, 2015

I have all my consoles and TVs/monitors set to limited just to simplify things.

I think the WiiU's setting is screwed (or maybe there is no setting at all, still?).

BiGBoSSMk23 · Oct 23, 2015

SirMossyBloke said:
If it's set to low on your monitor and you changed the PS4 to limited there should be no loss of detail at all.

Yes, yes you're right. Sorry. I'm being super finicky about this.

I had never used limited because it gave me the dreaded washed out textures back on PS3.

Obviously that's the way to go.

Thanks a lot.

drotahorror · Oct 23, 2015

DJ_Lae said:
I have all my consoles and TVs/monitors set to limited just to simplify things.

I think the WiiU's setting is screwed (or maybe there is no setting at all, still?).

Wii U is always limited. Was very annoyed when my full range rgb only monitor looked stupid playing wii u games. Luckily my new one has both.

drotahorror · Oct 23, 2015

Rapier said:
Yes, yes you're right. Sorry. I'm being super finicky about this.

I had never used limited because it gave me the dreaded washed out textures back on PS3.

Obviously that's the way to go.

Thanks a lot.

display - limited / ps4 - full = washed out
display - full / ps4 - limited = crushed blacks
(which is why you don't mix)

Either way, ND games have crushed blacks for me on PS4 (was not like this on PS3). It's also crushed on my Bravia 2014 model.

Goodacre0081 · Oct 23, 2015

set TV to expanded/full and calibrate then switch PS4 to expanded/full. the only thing left to do is adjust the in-game gamma setting based on what looks best. this way your not going back and forth messing with your TV's settings trying to eliminate crush or washout.

BiGBoSSMk23 · Oct 23, 2015

drotahorror said:
display - limited / ps4 - full = washed out
display - full / ps4 - limited = crushed blacks
(which is why you don't mix)

Either way, ND games have crushed blacks for me on PS4 (was not like this on PS3). It's also crushed on my Bravia 2014 model.

So Normal = Limited, Low = Full? Or the other way?

RoninChaos · Oct 23, 2015

This shit is so confusing.

interfreak · Oct 23, 2015

TV- Full
PS4 - Full

Finaika · Oct 23, 2015

TV - Auto
PS4 - Full

Strangely setting the TV on Full makes it washed out, eventhough my TV supports Full RGB.

BiGBoSSMk23 · Oct 23, 2015

RoninChaos said:
This shit is so confusing.

Tell me about it.

Why can't manufactures just ship their TV with the settings to look good?

Lil'DigiOp · Oct 23, 2015

This is what I need to learn.

So you can change the black level on most console devices? Something new every day.

CloudyTuba · Oct 23, 2015

interfreak said:
TV- Full
PS4 - Full

This.

Doesn't help that Samsung named them "Normal" and "Low" and apparently at once point swapped what the two mean. It's just through trial and error that I figured out which one I wanted. I dont remember which one it is on my TV all I know is that the PS4 is set to full and my tv is set so that it doesnt look washed out.

Krusenstern · Oct 23, 2015

Rapier said:
So Normal = Limited, Low = Full? Or the other way?

Other way.
TV Normal is Full
TV Limited is Low

Both your PS4 and your TV have to be set to the same RGB level. Don't leave anything on auto.

If you're picture still looks washed out or crushed then you have to calibrate your TV's contrast & brightness etc. using test patterns.

SirMossyBloke · Oct 23, 2015

interfreak said:
TV- Full
PS4 - Full

God, don't do that.

First off most TVs don't support full RGB range even though it has a setting for it, secondly blu-rays are always, always encoded with RGB limited, so you set it to full and your blu-rays look washed out.

Don't confuse the poor guy even more.

interfreak · Oct 23, 2015

SirMossyBloke said:
God, don't do that.

First off most TVs don't support full RGB range even though it has a setting for it, secondly blu-rays are always, always encoded with RGB limited, so you set it to full and your blu-rays look washed out.

Don't confuse the poor guy even more.

Ummm that's what seperate HDMI inputs are for. My PS4 is set to Full RGB, home theatre/blu ray player to auto on a different input.

My TV (Sony KDL60W850B) definitely supports full RGB.

Finaika · Oct 23, 2015

SirMossyBloke said:
First off most TVs don't support full RGB range even though it has a setting for it, secondly blu-rays are always, always encoded with RGB limited, so you set it to full and your blu-rays look washed out.

Ah so that's why my blu-rays looked washed out while my games looked fine when I set my TV to Full instead of Auto, thanks.

SirMossyBloke · Oct 23, 2015

interfreak said:
Ummm that's what seperate HDMI inputs are for. My PS4 is set to Full RGB, home theatre/blu ray player to auto on a different input.

My TV (Sony KDL60W850B) definitely supports full RGB.

He's not talking about a separate input for a blu-ray player though, just a PS4. Telling him to switch everything to full is gonna confuse matters.

He has a monitor too, which probably does support RGB Full as most new ones do, but we're trying to simplify not complicate.

interfreak · Oct 23, 2015

SirMossyBloke said:
He's not talking about a separate input for a blu-ray player though, just a PS4. Telling him to switch everything to full is gonna confuse matters.

He has a monitor too, which probably does support RGB Full as most new ones do, but we're trying to simplify not complicate.

Oh OK.

So for those that just game on their PS4:

TV - Full (if it supports full RGB)
PS4- Full

For those that play games and watch movies on their PS4:
TV - Auto
PS4 - Auto

papercan55 · Oct 23, 2015

drotahorror said:
I have this problem with the Uncharted Collection. Most if not all other games look perfectly fine, but UC has crushed blacks everywhere.
*Have tried both full range and limited on monitor/ps4 (yes I make sure they're the same). Both have the same picture.

drotahorror said:
Either way, ND games have crushed blacks for me on PS4 (was not like this on PS3). It's also crushed on my Bravia 2014 model.

chaosblade said:
What's with ND games and black level issues? Those seem to be the only games people are mentioning here.

Do not calibrate your tv when using uncharted collection or TLOU.
Both games have gamma issues, the uncharted collection has issues throughout all 3 games and TLOU has issues during the outskirts section at night and then resets back to normal later on.

Try any other game, even the ps3 versions of uncharted, and set your tv up using those.
I really do not understand what happened with the uncharted collection, for some it's fine but it looks like for a lot of people the gamma is too low and the blacks are getting crushed even on correct tv settings.
I have the same issue, I tried the ps3 uncharted games and it looks perfect with no crushed blacks but the ps4 versions have much lower gamma levels.
If you turn up the in-game brightness and your tv's brightness/gamma it should fix the issue.
I never have to adjust my tv settings for any games but the uncharted collection for some strange reason has brightness/gamma issues.

Calibrate your tv normally but when you play uncharted collection on ps4 just raise the gamma and the in game brightness(no need on ps3), when you play TLOU(ps3 or ps4) just fix the gamma when you play through the outskirts sections near the beginning of the game and then reset it back to normal once the gamma issue fixes itself.

Skux · Oct 23, 2015

At whatever setting gives me the full RGB range.

dark10x · Oct 23, 2015

Rapier said:
Tell me about it.

Why can't manufactures just ship their TV with the settings to look good?

It's not about "looking good". These are different standards you're talking about, not just a difference between dark or washed out. When set correctly, neither option will appear washed out. If it's washed out or crushed then you've set something correctly.

bigol · Oct 23, 2015

Rapier said:
So Normal = Limited, Low = Full? Or the other way?

Normal on Samsung=Full on ps4
Low on Samsung= Limited on ps4

EDIT: coming from a CRT on 360 to Ps4 and an LCD Full HD TV and looking at all the faults of LCD tv made me A/V OCD too.

Motion blur is still noticeable but after a year i'm getting used to it, blacks never being good blacks because of backlight (i often play at night). Now i'm appreciating my TV more but last year i hated it. I still want something to completely remove that motion blur...

-shadow- · Oct 23, 2015

None. Nintendo doesn't think I'm worth changing the settings.

dark10x · Oct 23, 2015

-shadow- said:
None. Nintendo doesn't think I'm worth changing the settings.

Yeah, Nintendo systems are a huge pain in that regard.

Dunkley · Oct 23, 2015

Keep them on Limited for PS3 because I hate how Classics switch to Limited when you have it on Full.

Otherwise Full whenever possible, Gamma in the middle, I want to be looking at the image as my console means to put it out the closest possible on my TV.

Lazaro · Oct 23, 2015

I have the PS4 and Wii U (No RGB options) at Limited with the TV settings on "HDMI Black-Level: Low."

My Xbox One and PS3 is RGB Full with TV Black-Level set to Normal.

I managed to get the Windows 10 Xbox update and I noticed that the Xbox picture output now looks better in "RGB Full" compared to before.

My PS4 looks washed out in RGB Full compared to my PS3 and Xbox One. I'm guessing the PS4 RGB Full setting is either bugged or unfinished similar to how my Xbox One was before the Win 10 update.

EDIT: Don't worry. Forgot your using a monitor.

bigol · Oct 23, 2015

Anyway i played TLOU Remastered with Normal setting on TV and Full on Ps4. It looked good, even if the gamma test the game has is not particularly good to set ingame brightness,

I put ingame brightness slightly below the default setting

NumberThree · Oct 23, 2015

SirMossyBloke said:
God, don't do that.

First off most TVs don't support full RGB range even though it has a setting for it, secondly blu-rays are always, always encoded with RGB limited, so you set it to full and your blu-rays look washed out.

Don't confuse the poor guy even more.

Surely the PS4 will scale the Blu-ray video to full range before sending it out to the HDMI if it's set to use full range at the system level?

FunkyDealer · Oct 23, 2015

I use low black level and limited on my TV, but I've also adjusted pretty much every other setting as well so it looks good in all situations. (that I've seen so far).

If a game is a little too dark for some reason then I adjust the gamma within the game and/or increase the backlight.

PillarEN · Oct 23, 2015

FunkyDealer said:
I use low black level and limited on my TV, but I've also adjusted pretty much every other setting as well so it looks good in all situations. (that I've seen so far).

If a game is a little too dark for some reason then I adjust the gamma within the game and/or increase the backlight.

I go with normal on mine because when I tried low black level it was crushing blacks everywhere. Very obvious on every platform and even more obvious when my Wii U pad was showing things on its screen which were not visible on the tv during low black.

nib95 · Oct 23, 2015

By HDMI black level do you mean RGB Limited or Full? And when you say Samsung monitor, do you mean PC monitor? Or is it still a TV?

In any case, for people using TV's, set your consoles to RGB Limited (and if your TV has the option, make sure it's set to RGB Limited or Normal as well). For people using PC Monitors that have 0-255 levels (which most DVI PC monitors do), use RGB Full. Here's an article going in to it in a bit more detail.

Reference Home Theatre | RGB: Full vs. Limited

KyleCross · Oct 23, 2015

I have a Samsung monitor, I've gone through settings for years, pretty sure I'm good now. But what drives me FUCKING INSANE is gradiants. They're not smooth, I can seen the blotches of varrying colors. It isn't just games, it is everything. I've read that this is just a fault with LCD/LEDs and there is actually nothing you can do about it?

Lalalandia · Oct 23, 2015

KyleCross said:
I have a Samsung monitor, I've gone through settings for years, pretty sure I'm good now. But what drives me FUCKING INSANE is gradiants. They're not smooth, I can seen the blotches of varrying colors. It isn't just games, it is everything. I've read that this is just a fault with LCD/LEDs and there is actually nothing you can do about it?

That could be dithering, some lcd panels (especially cheap eIPS panels) are 6-bit rather than 8-bit per channel which can leads to the dithering you're seeing. It should be somewhere in your user manual though (but not guaranteed, monitors are loose with the facts)

KyleCross · Oct 23, 2015

Lalalandia said:
That could be dithering, some lcd panels (especially cheap eIPS panels) are 6-bit rather than 8-bit per channel which can leads to the dithering you're seeing. It should be somewhere in your user manual though (but not guaranteed, monitors are loose with the facts)

Yeah, I've heard dithering come up before, but I really don't understand a lot about that.

Here's a quick example I just made in Photoshop:

My TV: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0071O4EKU/?tag=neogaf0e-20

FunkyDealer · Oct 23, 2015

PillarEN said:
I go with normal on mine because when I tried low black level it was crushing blacks everywhere. Very obvious on every platform and even more obvious when my Wii U pad was showing things on its screen which were not visible on the tv during low black.

That's a shame, but have you tried adjusting brightness, contrast, gamma and backlight to correct it?

I think this is were I got my calibration videos that I've used on my screens: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...ion.html#/forumsite/3207/topics/948496?page=1

FunkyDealer · Oct 23, 2015

nib95 said:
By HDMI black level do you mean RGB Limited or Full? And when you say Samsung monitor, do you mean PC monitor? Or is it still a TV?

In any case, for people using TV's, set your consoles to RGB Limited (and if your TV has the option, make sure it's set to RGB Limited or Normal as well). For people using PC Monitors that have 0-255 levels (which most DVI PC monitors do), use RGB Full. Here's an article going in to it in a bit more detail.

Reference Home Theatre | RGB: Full vs. Limited

Black level and RGB colourspace are different settings. Black level only affects the blacks.

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