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Final Fantasy XV has some of THE best animation blending I've ever seen

A

AgentOtaku

Member
FFXV 2.0 Demo playthrough

...how... how the fuck did they accomplish this?

Seriously, I've playing games for nearly 28 years and I've never seen animation blend so damn well (and really the animation in general). It's like tech-demo quality yet it's real-time.

Here's hoping the actual game turns out well (haven't cared for a FF since the triumph of XII) as the visuals/music alone makes me VERY cautiously optimistic. Still find the main cast's 2006 design... well... it is what it is.

But yeah, that fucking animation is just too unreal.
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
How did they accomplish that? Well take 100 dollars and light it on fire, then take another 100 and light that on fire, repeat for 9 years.
 
Exentryk

Exentryk

Member
Animations are cool, but they are also affecting the gameplay now. Devs seem much more focussed on how the game looks than how it plays. Gameplay needs responsiveness, not awkward slow un-responsive animations getting in the way.

Hopefully they sort it out, or it will turn out to be a yet another "An unhealthy obsession with Animations Graphic Quality" affair.
 
H

Hibiki Kurosawa

Member
Exentryk said:
Animations are cool, but they are also affecting the gameplay now. Devs seem much more focussed on how the game looks than how it plays. Gameplay needs responsiveness, not awkward slow un-responsive animations getting in the way.

Hopefully they sort it out, or it will turn out to be a yet another "An unhealthy obsession with Animations Graphic Quality" affair.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
Exentryk said:
Animations are cool, but they are also affecting the gameplay now. Devs seem much more focussed on how the game looks than how it plays. Gameplay needs responsiveness, not awkward slow un-responsive animations getting in the way.

Hopefully they sort it out, or it will turn out to be a yet another "An unhealthy obsession with Animations Graphic Quality" affair.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was a double-edged sword.

I think most people would comfortably sacrifice detailed and elaborated animations for a more smooth and fluid gameplay.
 
Y

Yabberwocky

Member
The animations are lovely, but I agree with the above, they really get in the way of gameplay. The same thing happened in Uncharted 3. In both the XV demo and U3, I felt slightly disconnected from the character I was playing because they weren't responsive enough. It was more 'hey, look at the thing we can do!' as opposed to how it felt to play.
 
R

Risev1

Member
Yeah animations are beautiful to look at, but there is a reason why most games never look as smooth as this animation-wise. It's so sluggish to play. I'd GLADLY sacrifice all these fancy animations for gameplay that feels actually good.

MGSV's gameplay really spoiled me.
 
A

AgentOtaku

Member
Risev1 said:
Yeah animations are beautiful to look at, but there is a reason why most games never look as smooth as this animation-wise. It's so sluggish to play. I'd GLADLY sacrifice all these fancy animations for gameplay that feels actually good.

MGSV's gameplay really spoiled me.
Click to expand...

That's def a bummer then. I never got to play the demo and yes, MGS truly epitomized both animation AND responsiveness...
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Exentryk said:
Animations are cool, but they are also affecting the gameplay now. Devs seem much more focussed on how the game looks than how it plays. Gameplay needs responsiveness, not awkward slow un-responsive animations getting in the way.

Hopefully they sort it out, or it will turn out to be a yet another "An unhealthy obsession with Animations Graphic Quality" affair.
Click to expand...

Fix The Scientist said:
I'd gladly sacrifice the animation blending and character detail for a game that actually plays well.
Click to expand...

Hibiki Kurosawa said:
Agreed.
Click to expand...

Supermanisdead said:
unfortunately this obsession with animations led to a slow, unresponsive combat system. so... no thanks.
Click to expand...

Dark_castle said:
Yeah, it was a double-edged sword.

I think most people would comfortably sacrifice detailed and elaborated animations for a more smooth and fluid gameplay.
Click to expand...

Overside said:
Look how cool what the computer is doing instead of you looks!
Click to expand...

fidelio_forte said:
The animations are lovely, but I agree with the above, they really get in the way of gameplay. The same thing happened in Uncharted 3. In both the XV demo and U3, I felt slightly disconnected from the character I was playing because they weren't responsive enough. It was more 'hey, look at the thing we can do!' as opposed to how it felt to play.
Click to expand...

Risev1 said:
Yeah animations are beautiful to look at, but there is a reason why most games never look as smooth as this animation-wise. It's so sluggish to play. I'd GLADLY sacrifice all these fancy animations for gameplay that feels actually good.

MGSV's gameplay really spoiled me.
Click to expand...

I came in here ready to give my spiel, but I see my fellow gameplay responsiveness junkies took care of that for me.

Blending animations to the point of realism is like adding 50-100 ms of input lag. I already hate input lag, so 'realistic animations' are not a plus for me (unless they don't get in the way of responsiveness).
 
B

benzy

Member
Don't really get the unresponsive complaints, Noct actually feels great overall especially when maneuvering him around the environment. In terms of combat I think the automatic weapon switching might make it seem like you're in less control of timing, so we'll just have to see how the new manual system feels. It's still far from sluggish.

bccyobbkvs.gif


ptwtfnlyli.gif
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
The gifs aren't the most indicative of the actual game feel I'm afraid. Have to physically play it and better yet compare to some other Action RPG out there, then one can tell something went wrong with FFXV's combat. The demo at least.
 
G

glaringradio

Member
The sprinting animation looks ridiculous. Especially when you see a regular NPC just rocking up alongside Nox after running like an actual human being.
 
P

Perfect Cha0s

Member
Yeah, it's pretty great.
benzy said:
Don't really get the unresponsive complaints, Noct actually feels great overall especially when maneuvering him around the environment. In terms of combat I think the automatic weapon switching might make it seem like you're in less control of timing, so we'll just have to see how the new manual system feels. It's still far from sluggish.
Click to expand...
It certainly doesn't help that the game can struggle to keep a stable framerate in combat, though.
 
K

KCroxtonJr

Member
Dark_castle said:
The gifs aren't the most indicative of the actual game feel I'm afraid. Have to physically play it and better yet compare to some other Action RPG out there, then one can tell something went wrong with FFXV's combat. The demo at least.
Click to expand...
I disagree. I absolutely loved the combat in the demo. Sure it's got some issues and took some getting used to, but I found it more enjoyable than Witcher 3, Skyrim, and Dragon Age Inquisition to name a few recent titles, and it was only a demo with lots of missing features/polish.

Opinions I guess.

Edit: Thought I would add that Dragon's Dogma and The Souls games have my favorite RPG combat systems, just to give an idea of what I like.
 
W

wmlk

Member
I think responsive will depend largely on the speed stat or whatever other upgrades there are to the speed of each attack. Haven't played the demo, but folks were saying 2.0 was much more responsive than 1.0. The biggest difference was the speed. If it takes less time to initiate and finish even one strike, then that goes a long way. I think the 2.0 gifs do well in demonstrating that.
 
O

Overside

Banned
KCroxtonJr said:
I disagree. I absolutely loved the combat in the demo. Sure it's got some issues and took some getting used to, but I found it more enjoyable than Witcher 3, Skyrim, and Dragon Age Inquisition to name a few recent titles, and it was only a demo with lots of missing features/polish.

Opinions I guess.

Edit: Thought I would add that Dragon's Dogma and The Souls games have my favorite RPG combat systems, just to give an idea of what I like.
Click to expand...

Those are not RPG combat systems..... Those are action combat systems.

And while I wont deny it can certainly be considered better than the afore mentioned titles... Thats just not saying much.

Its serviceably mediocre, we've ditched the RPG gameplay and the group controlling strategy that they were based on, for an action combat system with tons of flair and no teeth, and a complete lack of mental engagement, that happens to be better than other flash fests that also have no mental engagement.

wmlk said:
I think responsive will depend largely on the speed stat or whatever other upgrades there are to the speed of each attack. Haven't played the demo, but folks were saying 2.0 was much more responsive than 1.0. The biggest difference was the speed. If it takes less time to initiate and finish even one strike, then that goes a long way. I think the 2.0 gifs do well in demonstrating that.
Click to expand...


THats.... Not the kind of responsive being talked about here. We arent complaining that the games sluggish controls are making for bad gameplay because we see scenarios where its going to get is killed.

When you push an attack button, the time we are locked out is spent doing the following: Noctis turns towards the enemy, positions himself, and strikes the enemy all by himself. You might as well be slapping the controller against your face, either way Noctis will look awesome, and you aren't really doing anything, but pushing a button to give him your permission to go and attack the bad guy.
 
B

benzy

Member
Dark_castle said:
The gifs aren't the most indicative of the actual game feel I'm afraid. Have to physically play it and better yet compare to some other Action RPG out there, then one can tell something went wrong with FFXV's combat. The demo at least.
Click to expand...

Whether or not someone dislikes how the combat feels isn't fully related to the animation quality and how it looks is what I'm getting at. In terms of the control response for the overall character movement, including in combat, it's considerably less sluggish than other current-gen open world action games like Assassin's Creed Unity and Witcher 3.
 
L

LouisaFerre

Member
I didn't really like the combat in the demo, but that has a lot less to do with the animations and more to do with the:

-Lack of control over the timing of Noctis attacks
-Attacks have little range in addition to the lockon system, which encourages sticking to one enemy at a time, but the game always throws you into encounters where you face more than 5 enemies at a time.
-The enemies move around a lot but Noctis doesn't really have a good way to stick to them during combos(for example, something like slide dash or flash step from KH).
-The enemies also have WAAAAY too much HP. They do not offer nearly enough depth/interplay to justify how long they take to kill.
-Very little depth in terms of what the player can actually do(obviously this won't apply to the full game, but you know, the demo isn't going to win me over when it shows off so little of what the game is supposed to offer)

It's not just that it's shallow, but also that what's there doesn't really strike me as being that well thought out.

That said, the animations are really excellent. There was one of a player facing the behemoth that showed off both the just guard and how Noctis turned while sprinting to dodge the attacks. I wish I'd saved it, because I thought it was really impressive.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
AgentOtaku said:
FFXV 2.0 Demo playthrough

...how... how the fuck did they accomplish this?

Seriously, I've playing games for nearly 28 years and I've never seen animation blend so damn well (and really the animation in general). It's like tech-demo quality yet it's real-time.

Here's hoping the actual game turns out well (haven't cared for a FF since the triumph of XII) as the visuals/music alone makes me VERY cautiously optimistic. Still find the main cast's 2006 design... well... it is what it is.

But yeah, that fucking animation is just too unreal.
Click to expand...

Frame rate is still a bit choppy, but it is amazing animation that we have on display here. Feels like it has proper weight, different animations blend together and chain really smoothly. Great job S-E, up there with MGS V and U4 which is the Olympus of animation really :).
 
K

KCroxtonJr

Member
Overside said:
Those are not RPG combat systems..... Those are action combat systems.

And while I wont deny it can certainly be considered better than the afore mentioned titles... Thats just not saying much.

Its serviceably mediocre, we've ditched the RPG gameplay and the group controlling strategy that they were based on, for an action combat system with tons of flair and no teeth, and a complete lack of mental engagement, that happens to be better than other flash fests that also have no mental engagement.
Click to expand...
I left out the word action by accident, and no, those are ALL action RPG combat systems. If it's has real-time action elements, as well as RPG elements...it's an action RPG.

How has it ditched the RPG gameplay? Since when does limiting you to using one character mean it's no longer a RPG and simply an action game? And complete lack of mental engagement? Lol, sounds to me like you wanted a standard JRPG combat system and are upset it's not that. If it's not that, then I don't know your issue.

There is a lot of hyperbole in this thread. It's not even close to being as mindless and un-responsive as you guys are making it out to be.

Also, some of the issues I'm reading about are simply lack of polish, the combat system doesn't even have all features implemented and there still needs to be tweaking on the details. Anybody who played 1.0 and then 2.0 can should know how much of an improvement there was to the combat in just that short time in between.
 
O

Overside

Banned
KCroxtonJr said:
I left out the word action by accident, and no, those are ALL action RPG combat systems. If it's has real-time action elements, as well as RPG elements...it's an action RPG.

How has it ditched the RPG gameplay? Since when does limiting you to using one character mean it's no longer a RPG and simply an action game? And complete lack of mental engagement? Lol, sounds to me like you wanted a standard JRPG combat system and are upset it's not that.

There is a lot of hyperbole in this thread. It's not even close to being as mindless and un-responsive as you guys are making it out to be.
Click to expand...

'RPG elements.'

THis is why video game RPG's are called RPG's.

Its not because of a story, and its not because of levels or stat adjusting/equipment. If this was the case pretty much every single fucking game would be an rpg.

The reason the genre is called role playing games is because you ROLE PLAYED THEM instead of having an actual real time combat system.

THIS:
latest


Is a digital, graphical representation of this:
[
RPG-Dice-660x495-600x340.jpg


And that, is why they are called rpg's, because they are videogame versions, of pen and paper role playing games.

For some reason there is a band of people who think that a good game not being called an rpg is some kind of an insult, and must misrepresent genres in order to stave off this imaginary offense. There is nothing I can do for those people, they are idiots. All I can do is preserve reality.

As for FF15, Its very simple, it doesnt have good rpg combat, and it doesnt have good action combat. Its serviceable, but mediocre. But boy does it put on a show when push that there there button! WHOO!!! Jazz hands!!! SO exciting!
 
B

brainchild

Banned
benzy said:
Don't really get the unresponsive complaints, Noct actually feels great overall especially when maneuvering him around the environment. In terms of combat I think the automatic weapon switching might make it seem like you're in less control of timing, so we'll just have to see how the new manual system feels. It's still far from sluggish.

bccyobbkvs.gif


ptwtfnlyli.gif
Click to expand...


Just to be clear, we're talking in the realm of milliseconds here.

Objectively speaking, the more data that has to be processed and displayed (like transitional animations) between the players inputs, the longer the player has to wait between inputs, resulting in increasing unresponsiveness.

This delay isn't necessarily perceptible to everyone right away, but when you compare the responsiveness to other games, it becomes obvious. For example, if you quickly turn Noct around in circles with the analog stick or quickly move him around erratically, he has all kinds of animations that depict his change in momentum. No matter how fast you rotate or move the analog stick, you have to wait for these animations to play themselves out before they reflect your next input. In Super Mario Sunshine, rotating Mario with the analog stick is 1:1. There is no delay. If you change direction, the new frame will override the old frame; you always feel completely 100% in control of Mario.

The point is that there can be a bit of a disconnect between the player and the character which has delayed input due to animations in the game that attempts to mimic realistic human movement, and FFXV is definitely one of those games. The Uncharted games are guilty of this too.

Realistic animations aren't inherently a bad thing. It's generally fine for slower paced games. But I'm sorry, 3rd person action games that have lots of combat need highly responsive controls, and you're just not going to get that if your character has a million animations to perform just from wiggling the analog stick.
 
N

nelsonroyale

Member
Yeah, I really like the fluidity of the animations in this. Presentation wise, if they can up the IQ and AA this will really look special.
 
P

Philippo

Member
Yeah animations are probably the best in the whole industry, and when you factor in everything else they're doing (massive open world, global illumination etc. etc.),
it really is mindblowing.
 
B

Benzychenz

Member
Exentryk said:
Animations are cool, but they are also affecting the gameplay now. Devs seem much more focussed on how the game looks than how it plays. Gameplay needs responsiveness, not awkward slow un-responsive animations getting in the way.

Hopefully they sort it out, or it will turn out to be a yet another "An unhealthy obsession with Animations Graphic Quality" affair.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Episode Duscae felt terrible to play and I'd take choppy 'gamey' animations over what we had any day.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Overside said:
The reason the genre is called role playing games is because you ROLE PLAYED THEM instead of having an actual real time combat system.
Click to expand...

Seiken Densetsu confirmed for not RPG

edit:
Overside said:
For some reason there is a band of people who think that a good game not being called an rpg is some kind of an insult, and must misrepresent genres in order to stave off this imaginary offense. There is nothing I can do for those people, they are idiots. All I can do is preserve reality.
Click to expand...

wow
 
S

SprachBrooks

Member
Imagine how much more fluid it would look at 60fps! Either way, I'm happy with the transitions and movements and I'm confident it'll be a solid Final Fantasy on release.
 
K

Keby

Member
As an animator in this industry myself, I find myself at odds with what I know all the time. It's weird. This thing called anticipation in which you have to go backwards before you go forward, ex. a baseball pitch. It makes animation really come alive and feel real with weight, but in games it add so much lag to combat.

Overall I'd have to say I agree that it makes combat clunky. As much as I love seeing the advances in animation tech in game, it can really put a damper on action combat. Can you imagine if DMC moved like this? It'd be a joke.

But man FFXV's animation is truly insane. IK on fingers. Monsters naturally shifting body weight when one foot is elevated. It's absolutely insane what they've done
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Keby said:
As an animator in this industry myself, I find myself combating what I know all the time. It's weird. This thing called anticipation in which you have to go backwards before you go forward, ex. a baseball pitch. It makes animation really come alive and feel real with weight, but in games it add so much lag to combat.

Overall I'd have to say I agree that it makes combat clunky. As much as I love seeing the advances in animation tech in game, it can really put a damper on action combat. Can you imagine if DMC moved like this? It'd be a joke.

But man FFXV's animation is truly insane. IK on fingers. Monsters naturally shifting body weight when one foot is elevated. It's absolutely insane what they've done
Click to expand...


That'd be a great way to get me to hate the series. If they did that to Bayonetta, I would lose my shit!
 
N

Nickle

Cool Facts: Game of War has been a hit since July 2013
Good fabric physics seriously turn me on. I love seeing the clothes flap about in the wind.
 
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