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Blizzard is interested in reinventing the RTS genre for modern tastes

N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Presumably they mean this in a non-MOBA/"Action RTS" sense given they already have one of those by the same team.

VentureBeat said:
GamesBeat: You talked about diversity in genres. Do you feel like there are additional genres that are ripe for Blizzard to take on at this point?

Pearce: We have a pretty good range of choices right now. Some of it remains to be seen in the FPS space. That’s a highly competitive space to function in. There’s not a single 800-pound gorilla. It’s more like multiple 1,200-pound gorillas. I’ve played Overwatch and it’s awesome. It has a lot of personality. Hopefully it’ll have some appeal for folks looking for something a little different.

As it relates to the realtime strategy space, that’s one of those areas where—if we were going to continue to evaluate experiences in realtime strategy, we need to figure out what that means by today’s standards. Legacy of the Void did great. We reached millions of players with it. We have a passionate and loyal following. But I don’t know that people want to sit down and play 45-minute missions anymore. That space might need some reinventing. Even though it’s a space we already operate in, that offers us some pretty exciting possibilities.

We have a very loyal Diablo community. It’s going to be important for us to continue to support that community. I don’t know what that necessarily means right now because we’re still actively supporting our Diablo III players. But I don’t think we want to let our franchises go dormant for as long as we have historically. We have loyal communities around these franchises and it’s not fair to let them go dormant that long.
Click to expand...
GamesBeat: Do you think there are strategy opportunities in the mobile space? It certainly seems to be a meeting of two areas you have some interest. You certainly have a great amount of experience in RTS.

Pearce: It’s definitely something we want to have a conscious evaluation of. If you look at Overwatch and StarCraft, we have multiple franchises that would potentially lend themselves to that concept.
Click to expand...
Source: http://venturebeat.com/2016/02/13/b...lls-why-25-years-of-making-games-isnt-enough/
 
N

nubbe

Member
omg
it almost sounds like there is no expansion or sequel on the way for Diablo
just season content
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
nubbe said:
omg
it almost sounds like there is no expansion or sequel on the way for Diablo
just season content
Click to expand...

Given what else they've been doing and the jobs they've been posting, I get the impression they want to make Diablo 4 instead of an expansion, but that's going to still be a little bit compared to how long a second expansion would have taken.

StarCraft II's mission packs however are more the direction that is going until they figure out how they want to reinvent things.
 
M

maxcriden

Member
I feel like Pikmin has been quietly working on refining as reinventing the RTS genre for a while now. I understand its systems are nowhere near as complex as those in a Blizzard game, though.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
While I have far more faith in Blizzard and their design principles, the last time someone tried to reinvent a major RTS franchise, C&C4 happened.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Heroes of the Storm type RTS

Pick your Hero(Determines which units you get)
(Sorta like Civilization)
(But Real time)
(Like for Warcraft Heroes, you get Alliance or Horde based characters, and then depending on who you pick IE Arthas or Thrall you get specialized units)
(Kinda like Civ in that each counts as a different 'race', but instead of being turn based it's real time)

It could be cool and interesting.
 
C

Coffee Dog

Banned
man, I really do hate that "modern tastes" is just code for "immediately accessible".

I guess we'll see what blizzard can do, but I mean, RTS games aren't fun on accident. Trying to compress them into 15 minutes cycles of enjoyment would most likely lose something.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Cisce said:
don't even suggest that.

I went into the base Dawn of War 2 blind, and those changes disappointed me a lot.
Click to expand...

Turned out pretty well tho.

Wouldn't work for Warcaft, but it was pretty fun all the same.

Anyway: I'm always up for more RTS, but I can't say I'm thrilled with some of the subtext in there. I kinda *like* long, involved missions.
 
L

lazygecko

Member
The genre at large being consolidated around excessive micro gameplay where APM is all that matters, thanks in no small part thanks to Blizzard themselves, is what ultimately alienated me from it. If you want to do something different, then that's what I would severely tone down. And with how MOBAs essentially grew out of that and has since ecplipsed its parent genre, I think that kind of direction for an RTS feels pretty superfluous at this point. The intended audience for that is already gonna stick with their MOBAs anyway.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Coffee Dog said:
man, I really do hate that "modern tastes" is just code for "immediately accessible".

I guess we'll see what blizzard can do, but I mean, RTS games aren't fun on accident. Trying to compress them into 15 minutes cycles of enjoyment would most likely lose something.
Click to expand...

Modern tastes are all about being immediately accessible, and I mean IMMEDIATELY. See: most mobile games.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
"Modern tastes" mixed with that statement about how they dont think todays gamers can take "45 minute campaign missions" makes me nervous as FUCK.

Envisioning a new-age RTS with big numbers and flashy graphical effects whizzing and booming and flashing all over the fucking screen every .5 seconds in addition to a control and combat scheme that requires an extremely high rate of button presses/input to make sure there's enough 'stimulation' to keep the player awake.

Makes my skin crawl thinking about it. Thats certainly the way it seems most new MMO's went. I absolutely loathe it.
 
Proelite

Proelite

Member
I love the complicated base building and research parts of RTSes the best. I love long RTS missions without time limits where I can perfect the mission by doing all objextives, researching all upgrades and research

If Blizzard moves away from that then I am moving away from Blizzard RTSes.
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
Proelite said:
I love the complicated base building and research parts of RTSes the best. I love long RTS missions without time limits where I can perfect the mission by doing all objextives, researching all upgrades and research

If Blizzard moves away from that then I am moving away from Blizzard RTSes.
Click to expand...

To be fair, StarCraft and Warcraft are both games where booming isn't an ideal strat. So it's not like Blizz would be coming out of left field.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Cipherr said:
"Modern tastes" mixed with that statement about how they dont think todays gamers can take "45 minute campaign missions" makes me nervous as FUCK.

Envisioning a new-age RTS with big numbers and flashy graphical effects whizzing and booming and flashing all over the fucking screen every 5 seconds in addition to a control and combat scheme that requires an extremely high rate of button presses/input to make sure there's enough 'stimulation' to keep the player awake.

Makes my skin crawl thinking about it. Thats certainly the way it seems most new MMO's went. I absolutely loathe it.
Click to expand...

To be fair

There is no 'modern' RTS game that's also a hit with the casuals. I think the last one I heard of was called Grey Goo, and that came out half a year ago? There simply isn't space for an old-fashioned RTS game like Warcraft these days. That genre was completely overtaken by RTS-Lites, that is games like DotA or League of Legends. Basically, RTS spawned MOBAs which killed it's progenitor on the way out.

It's a sad truth. Yes Blizzard could probably make an old school RTS and make it work simply because of the clout they have with their community and how their games tend to have a symbiotic relationship with each other, but it's still a huge risk with no guaranteed pay off, nor any recent examples of the genre that did really well. Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm both leeched off popular concepts, and with Overwatch they salvaged what they had of Titan but also served as a precursor for the arena shooter renaissance incoming(IE Lawbreakers, Paragon, Battleborn, Gigantic, which are all arena hero shooters of sorts).

It's a tough spot.
 
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
nubbe said:
omg
it almost sounds like there is no expansion or sequel on the way for Diablo
just season content
Click to expand...

Doesn't sound like that at all to me. Saying they don't want to let their franchises lie dormant the way they did in the past tells me they'd want to get a sequel out in the near future.
 
G

georly

Member
I think the genre could benefit from some simplicity. Maybe remove tech upgrades in favor of just using different units to do different stuff. Reduce the number of abilities that units have to reduce the emphasis on that form of micromanagement. There are thinga they could do that would still make it feel like an rts to a casual player without upsetting the hardcore too much.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
You know, I'm sitting here thinking, perhaps it's about time RTS went into the same kind of metamorphosis that CRPGs did. Died out, the niche fanbase that existed grew so starved, that when the kickstarter revolution happened, multiple successful new CRPGs were made.

I mean there's something to be said for Grey Goo, and while I think it's a little disappointing that it hasn't taken off taken off, on the other hand they DID just release a fourth faction.

As much as I'd love a WarCraft 4 with Blizzard's typical all-out production values, what with expensive CGI and all that, I'd also take a small deluge of smaller RTS titles that appeal to the classic base building aspect.

tl;dr not every game needs to have an AAA budget.

edit: and I feel really stupid for not mentioning Kharak, heh.
 
P

Pooya

Member
They should go back and take a good look at what they were doing with WarCraft III. What it spawned is very relevant to 'modern tastes', maybe a game like it is relevant too. Ditch most of macro but not all of it, focus on micro but keep it manageable and simple enough not like a moba. It could be a formula worth trying a second time.

What they did with LotV is like even worse for modern tastes, Average player already had trouble managing two bases simultaneously, now you may have to expand even faster.
 
D

DocSeuss

Member
What? The thing the RTS NEEDS is more 45-minute sessions. We don't have anyone making those kind of games tehse days, and that's exactly what I want to be playing. The last one that came out--Deserts of Kharak, is a wonderfully received game.
 
L

lazygecko

Member
Falk said:
I mean there's something to be said for Grey Goo, and while I think it's a little disappointing that it hasn't taken off taken off, on the other hand they DID just release a fourth faction.
Click to expand...

It's hardly a surprise that it hasn't taken off when barely anyone even knows the game exists. There was hardly any marketing at all for that game. Instead it was quietly developed and released under an equally quiet publisher. I think if they had just announced and funded the game through a kickstarter, that alone would have gotten them way more exposure.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
DocSeuss said:
What? The thing the RTS NEEDS is more 45-minute sessions. We don't have anyone making those kind of games tehse days, and that's exactly what I want to be playing. The last one that came out--Deserts of Kharak, is a wonderfully received game.
Click to expand...

It's also a game that's moved a grand total of 61,000 copies.

Grey Goo is at ~150,000 though that might be slightly inflated due to the free weekend.

Blizzard's sales bar is comparatively very, very high. Diablo 3 has moved over 30 million units between the base game and expansion pack.
 
E

Evolution of Metal

Member
Screw base building and worker management. Those things will never ever pick up in post-MOBA single-hero mentality. Base building should be kept to minimum, worker units culled and combat unit amount reduced (compared to Starcraft 2).

Dawn of War 2 was just a bad game. Units were sluggish and unresponsive. Huge ability trees that were needlessly complicated. Buy to play, expansions and microtransactions inside a single game.

Blizzard already has a hardcore RTS.
 
D

DTX180

Neo Member
Warcraft 3 i thought was slow enough paced for newer people. HP of units was higher, armies were smaller, etc. Heroes were too significant in the game though, which turned a lot of games into "focus fire on the hero at all costs", ruining a lot of potential strategy. If they made heroes less significant (maybe 1 passive skill, 1 active skill, and no special armor type to reduce a lot of damage), the game would of been a bit better imo.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
SDCowboy said:
Aren't MOBA's essentially the RTS genre reinvented for modern tastes?
Click to expand...
In many senses yes, which is why most of their RTS team is now on their MOBA, but I think they mean something that keeps more elements of multi-unit control and base building.

Like FPS games evolved in a few different directions over time, so I think they're hoping to find another branch of RTS that isn't just MOBAs.
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
World in Conflict was this for me. Essentially CoD RTS. No resource management, just combat. With some big airstrikes to boot.
 
D

DTX180

Neo Member
Quadraphonic said:
I remember Blizzard before World of Warcraft existed.

It was nice. Now I don't trust their direction.
Click to expand...

This.

Blizzard pre 2004 was solid. Then people starting saying the "blizzard has never released a bad game" line like it was a part of the gaming gospel or some shit, and blindly bought their games.
 
N

NotoriousPUG

Member
Slightly off topic, but is the single player content for Starcraft 2 complete? I don't have much interest in playing competitive since Dota 2 fills that niche for me, but I wouldn't mind a good RTS campaign.
 
N

nubbe

Member
ShinUltramanJ said:
Doesn't sound like that at all to me. Saying they don't want to let their franchises lie dormant the way they did in the past tells me they'd want to get a sequel out in the near future.
Click to expand...

an expansion could be released in the near future, as one was planned to be
But that expansion is now nowhere to be found

Making a new game takes a lot of time, so we might look at 2-4 more years before D4 is on shelves

By the sound of it, we might be looking at season content for 4 years
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
Falk said:
I mean there's something to be said for Grey Goo, and while I think it's a little disappointing that it hasn't taken off taken off, on the other hand they DID just release a fourth faction.
Click to expand...

That's because Grey Goo wasn't that good. It's a good concept but the execution was flawed.
 
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