• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Tim Sweeney:MS wants to monopolise games development on PC–and we must fight it

E

ekim

Member
http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-pc-games-development-epic-games-gears-of-war

Tim Sweeney is the co-founder of US-based developer, Epic Games, creator of the Gears of War series of Xbox and PC titles, which has sold over 20m units worldwide.
Click to expand...

With its new Universal Windows Platform (UWP) initiative, Microsoft has built a closed platform-within-a-platform into Windows 10, as the first apparent step towards locking down the consumer PC ecosystem and monopolising app distribution and commerce.

In my view, this is the most aggressive move Microsoft has ever made. While the company has been convicted of violating antitrust law in the past, its wrongful actions were limited to fights with specific competitors and contracts with certain PC manufacturers.
Click to expand...

Much more in the article.

Microsoft's response:
In response to Sweeney’s allegations, Kevin Gallo, corporate vice president of Windows at Microsoft, told the Guardian: “The Universal Windows Platform is a fully open ecosystem, available to every developer, that can be supported by any store. We continue to make improvements for developers; for example, in the Windows 10 November Update, we enabled people to easily side-load apps by default, with no UX required.

“We want to make Windows the best development platform regardless of technologies used, and offer tools to help developers with existing code bases of HTML/JavaScript, .NET and Win32, C+ + and Objective-C bring their code to Windows, and integrate UWP capabilities. With Xamarin, UWP developers can not only reach all Windows 10 devices, but they can now use a large percentage of their C# code to deliver a fully native mobile app experiences for iOS and Android. We also posted a blog on our development tools recently.”
Click to expand...
 
SRTtoZ

SRTtoZ

Member
Diving into the article now...

Great article and glad someone high profile is speaking out on it. Will read this thread when I wake up here in NY.
 
G

GrantDaNasty

Member
Big-Ups to me main man, Sweeney Todd, him be well knowledgeable about what makes the PC.

Sorry, been watching a lot of Ali G clips recently.

Considering how close they've been with MS in the past, pretty big to see a statement from Sweeney regarding this.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

They fear the return of the One Free Man.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
I can imagine a scenario where Windows 10 eventually says 'okay, you guys making games that run on Windows 10 (which we made everyone install, mwa ha ha) need to use _________' and Linux as an alternative OS actually finally gains critical-mass traction.

Only half-joking
 
E

ekim

Member
I don't think the W10 store is mature enough to make W32 applications go anywhere. And it's not like MS is going to block W32 apps in the future (they are not that stupid). So it's a bit hyperbole here but I see where he is coming from.
 
N

NippleViking

Banned
Kezen said:
That's a courageous statement to make, I never expected Sweeney to go public about it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, jesus - how bold. I always thought MS and Epic were pretty cosy together.

I think MS ought to actually work on convincing people to engage in their storefront, well before they start pursuing a monopoly.
 
R

Renekton

Member
If their API and framework are easier for devs, especially budding ones, then go ahead. XNA was great while it lasted.

After all people are okay with Steam monopoly (to the point of attacking wannabes like Origin / UPlay), Intel monopoly, and welcome the impending Nvidia monopoly with open arms.
 
M

m_dorian

Member
If true (and i really hope it is not) it shows that MS does not really want to take a pro-consumer stance, exploiting their position as an OS developer and the only thing they want to do is spin.
Denying options to consumers is all MS seems to be trying to do those past few years and that is greed.
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
It could have been really easy for MS to make people like Win10 apps/games by offering additional services and features, added value.

Instead they are garbage, the opposite of what PC gamers want, and they make them exclusive because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fuck off MS. You don't understand PC gaming and you never will.
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
Wait, I thought UWP could make porting problem go away, cross play, cross buy, one code all devices, Halo 5 on phones and etc.

Why can't Tim Sweeney just be a real gamer™
 
D

Dash_Riprock

Member
m_dorian said:
If true (and i really hope it is not) it shows that MS does not really want to take a pro-consumer stance, exploiting their position as an OS developer and the only thing they want to do is spin.
Denying options to consumers is all MS seems to be trying to do those past few years and that is greed.
Click to expand...

Why would MS ever willing take a pro-consumer stance? History has showed us time and again that they have to be forced into it.
 
P

pezley

Banned
Whilst it's definitely going to be dropped and fail... well, because Microsoft. I really don't see how what they are doing is different to Valve only publishing their titles on Steam, or EA on Origin.

It will with out a doubt bring more games to the PC market if UWP games made with with one set of tools in mind work across console and PC. Granted it comes with it's own set of restrictions but developers can choose to just release it on other distribution platforms. Nothing really changes and it certainly wont create a stranglehold.
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
Looking forward to all the "But only like 20 people care about these things" posts that get brought up all the time in threads about the Win Store lately.
 
A

anonymous_abc

Member
ekim said:
I don't think the W10 store is mature enough to make W32 applications go anywhere. And it's not like MS is going to block W32 apps in the future (they are not that stupid). So it's a bit hyperbole here but I see where he is coming from.
Click to expand...

Well it hardly seems far fetched, that MS would drag their feet in supporting a legacy win32...
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
I don't see any issue here since you don't need to use Windows Store for your games.

Of course published MS games will use WS only and they are in the rights to do that.
 
S

SomedayTheFire

Member
Gotzon said:
And steam isn't becoming a monopoly of distribution right? Heh.
Click to expand...

one can release a game on steam, and on GOG, and on their own website, and humble store. completely different situations. steam became a "monopoly" (without actually being a monopoly) due to a range of unique circumstances. microsoft are trying to manufacture their own.
 
R

Raylan

Banned
Microsoft's response:

In response to Sweeney’s allegations, Kevin Gallo, corporate vice president of Windows at Microsoft, told the Guardian: “The Universal Windows Platform is a fully open ecosystem, available to every developer, that can be supported by any store. We continue to make improvements for developers; for example, in the Windows 10 November Update, we enabled people to easily side-load apps by default, with no UX required.

“We want to make Windows the best development platform regardless of technologies used, and offer tools to help developers with existing code bases of HTML/JavaScript, .NET and Win32, C+ + and Objective-C bring their code to Windows, and integrate UWP capabilities. With Xamarin, UWP developers can not only reach all Windows 10 devices, but they can now use a large percentage of their C# code to deliver a fully native mobile app experiences for iOS and Android. We also posted a blog on our development tools recently.”
Click to expand...
 
O

oti

Banned
I mean, as long as you can install programs outside of the Win10 store everything's OK, right? If MS wants to sell their exclusive games on Win10 Store that's their choice. Look at Ori. There will be a version on Steam and a version on Win10, or am I missing something?
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
pezley said:
Whilst it's definitely going to be dropped and fail... well, because Microsoft. I really don't see how what they are doing is different to Valve only publishing their titles on Steam, or EA on Origin.
Click to expand...

Of the many, many faults in their windows store policies, I'll point out one of the most egregious:

LordRaptor said:
For the record, if you put a game on steam, there are zero obligations for you to sell that game through the steam storefront.
You can generate as many codes for your game as many times as you want, and can sell them anywhere you want.
The only revenue cost to you as a developer where valve explcitly benefit is for sales made directly through the steam storefront.
Selling your game - your game for Steam - via GMG, Humble, eBay, Amazon, your own website, a forum giveaway, your twitch stream, wherever is not prohibited by steam. Steam receives no revenue from those outlets.

Those outlets are all in direct price competition with each other and consumers benefit accordingly outside of a cartel scenario even if "technically have to have steam though!".

Conversely, putting a game as a UWA on the Windows Store makes the Windows Store the only place that title can be purchased.
You are permitted to generate up to 200 promotional codes once every 6 months (IIRC), and you are explicitly forbidden from selling or reselling any of those promo codes or attempting to bypass MS taking a revenue cut in any manner.
Click to expand...
 
A

anonymous_abc

Member
ethomaz said:
I don't see any issue here since you don't need to use Windows Store for your games.

Of course published MS games will use WS only and they are in the rights to do that.
Click to expand...

Did you even read the article?
Yes it might be possible to circumvent the Windows store, but it sure ain't easy. And your average Joe will likely not be doing it.
 
F

Frank Jaeger

Member
I'm glad this is rustling some jimmies

Guess gaben was that wrong when he was saying that Steam OS was a response to Windows 10 and microsoft locking stuff down!
 
PuppetMaster

PuppetMaster

Member
Wow Tim is holding no punches! Respect him for calling it like it is.

Personally I am not really worried MS will suceeed here. So I have not been so up in arms about this. But I all it takes for MS to triumph is for good people to do nothing. So kudos Tim
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
Thank you Tim Sweeney for stepping forward and speaking out

This isn’t like that. Here, Microsoft is moving against the entire PC industry – including consumers (and gamers in particular), software developers such as Epic Games, publishers like EA and Activision, and distributors like Valve and Good Old Games.

Microsoft has launched new PC Windows features exclusively in UWP, and is effectively telling developers you can use these Windows features only if you submit to the control of our locked-down UWP ecosystem. They’re curtailing users’ freedom to install full-featured PC software, and subverting the rights of developers and publishers to maintain a direct relationship with their customers.
Click to expand...

Lot's of important stuff in the article, and a good move to get dialogue and fight going from Epic's founder. Really hope others really take this fight to Microsoft and instigate change
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
ethomaz said:
I don't see any issue here since you don't need to use Windows Store for your games.

Of course published MS games will use WS only and they are in the rights to do that.
Click to expand...

Do you think that's their goal, just release like 10 games a year and call it a day? Half of the article is about addressing why very few third parties will be interested in what they are doing. If MS only gets their own games up there, the initiative is going to fail, and that can end up being pretty bad for customers in a few years.
 
R

riflen

Member
Tim Sweeney said:
Microsoft’s intentions must be judged by Microsoft’s actions, not Microsoft’s words. Their actions speak plainly enough: they are working to turn today’s open PC ecosystem into a closed, Microsoft-controlled distribution and commerce monopoly, over time, in a series of steps of which we’re seeing the very first
Click to expand...

Great to see such a high-profile developer with a history of working with Microsoft write this piece. It's exactly what many of us were positing is the recent UWP threads, only to be told that we were insane alarmists spreading fud.
 
1

1st Course

Member
How many actually use the Windows store? I remember reading an article how the store is full of scammy/copycat apps and Microsoft basically don't give a fuck.
 
G

GrantDaNasty

Member
Gotzon said:
And steam isn't becoming a monopoly of distribution right? Heh.
Click to expand...

Steam became a monopoly because people like the service they provide and over years of loyalty, Steam ended up becoming the face of PC gaming. MS is trying to take this shit by force, despite having failed to do so in the past, not exactly building much reason for people to consider it a viable alternative to Steam/GOG/uPlay/Origin/Etc.
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
1st Course said:
How many actually use the Windows store? I remember reading an article how the store is full of scammy/copycat apps and Microsoft basically don't give a fuck.
Click to expand...

The 8 store is. 10 store isn't nearly as bad as that one was, though it doesn't have much of interest for PC users right now anyway. Still feels like a phone and tablet store.
 
S

SomedayTheFire

Member
oti xero said:
I mean, as long as you can install programs outside of the Win10 store everything's OK, right? If MS wants to sell their exclusive games on Win10 Store that's their choice. Look at Ori. There will be a version on Steam and a version on Win10, or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

you're missing the article. read it.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
1st Course said:
How many actually use the Windows store? I remember reading an article how the store is full of scammy/copycat apps and Microsoft basically don't give a fuck.
Click to expand...

That was the Windows 8 store where they just gave up on it after a year.

I think they basically did a mini do over with Windows 10 and are actually trying again (until they probably give up in a year)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

[Jez Corden] If Microsoft really IS bringing Steam, Epic Game Store, etc. to Xbox consoles, it needs to answer these big questions
2 3 4
155
7K
sachos replied
  • Poll
Palworld has, once again, highlighted the on going deficiencies in PC Game Pass and the Xbox app on Windows 11 (Windows Central)
Hardware Platform 2 3
111
11K
Unknown Soldier replied
Lamen here: Why do pc games simply do not blow out console games graphically?
4 5 6 7 8
372
14K
SF Kosmo replied
[Jez Corden] OPINION: This week's big Xbox drama showcases how little people trust Nadella's Microsoft — a legacy forged in the death of Windows Phone
2 3 4
164
12K
Rosoboy19 replied
  • Locked
Surveyed PC gamers say they STILL prefer Windows 10 and mid-range 1080p over high-end parts
Opinion Hardware
19
1K
Topher replied
Top Bottom