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Oddworld's Lorne Lanning on PS4.5 ( Video )

G

generic_username

I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
Some thoughts from Lorne Lanning on PS4.5 and how VR is going to further drive the concept of iterative consoles for the short term. One interesting thing he mentions is the time when he asked Shuhei Yoshida about what he thinks the PS5 is going to look like before an interview and Yoshida replied " You mean if...."

This is going to be an interesting next few years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcqKAKpuyjw&feature=youtu.be&t=2654.

Lock if old.
 
A

A_Dang

Member
I'd listen to a regular podcast with Lorne Lanning talking about anything he wants to. He has to be one of the smartest people in the game business.

Side note: The GI podcast is really good stuff most of the time.
 
D

Dr. Feel Good

Banned
Hardware as a whole doesn't make sense. We are a mobile generation. Even the VR will likely become a standalone platform that is not tethered to a specific hardware as it advances. No one wants to be locked into a box.

Side note -- it is kind of mind blowing to me that Lorne Lanning is relevant despite not really creating an original title since 2005.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
"Sony will be the first one to win VR"

Well, that goes without saying. There isn't really a race for VR in the home console market, both Microsoft and Nintendo hasn't shown any real interest in supporting it going forward.

His comments are interesting on mobile though. You can already see Square-Enix release things on the mobile platform first before they hit the home consoles.
 
C

ClearData

Member
I think Lorne is a smart guy and he definitely has a breadth of experience and history in the industry to draw his observations from. Now, I don't think a lot of people are keen on every industry trying to adapt the cell phone model, but I think he hit the nail on the head when he described Sony's thinking regarding the VR space and being agile enough to respond to the technological needs of that emerging market that they want to become a leader of.
 
AmuroChan

AmuroChan

Member
Lorne is a very smart man and one of the points he makes is very telling - that we're almost at the point now where a PS4/X1 game could potentially be released simultaneously on an iPad with visual fidelity that's not that much worse. That's a really scary thought IMO as a console gamer.
 
Mediking

Mediking

Member
jacks81x said:
Lorne is a very smart man and one of the points he makes is very telling - that we're almost at the point now where a PS4/X1 game could potentially be released simultaneously on an iPad with visual fidelity that's not that much worse. That's a really scary thought IMO as a console gamer.
Click to expand...

What? I have yet to play one super good mobile game on my cellphone that was even close to the quality of a good console game. You play these games for super brief times... you don't play them for over 30 minutes at a time. And this is coming from someone who loves Gamevil's Baseball Superstar series and Madden Mobile.
 
B

BHK3

Banned
jacks81x said:
Lorne is a very smart man and one of the points he makes is very telling - that we're almost at the point now where a PS4/X1 game could potentially be released simultaneously on an iPad with visual fidelity that's not that much worse. That's a really scary thought IMO as a console gamer.
Click to expand...

It looks the same but it will never, ever, play the same. Lornes a smart guy but this iterative console thing is gonna blow up in their faces, phones are phones and consoles are consoles.
 
AmuroChan

AmuroChan

Member
Mediking said:
What? I have yet to play one super good mobile game on my cellphone that was even close to the quality of a good console game. You play these games for super brief times... you don't play them for over 30 minutes at a time. And this is coming from someone who loves Gamevil's Baseball Superstar series and Madden Mobile.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I played Hearthstone for like 3 hours straight the other day.

Anyway, I'm not a developer so I wouldn't know, but Lorne is. So I found his perspective on this very interesting.
 
mysteriousmage09

mysteriousmage09

Member
There's going to be a PS5. The time will eventually come where new hardware architectures will come into play that have vastly superior capabilities. They won't be able to keep the setup they currently have in the PS4 and Neo going forever. They will hit a wall in terms of what they can do with it and simply overclocking the ram and cpu isn't going to cut it. At that point, it's new console time.

The whole Neo thing is just so the console generation doesn't run into that wall faster.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
OrbitalBeard said:
Iterative console hardware is the future, without a doubt in my mind.
Click to expand...

For Sony, maybe. We will have to wait and see how well the PS4K takes off first.

For Nintendo? They have already been doing the iterative thing for a long time now with their handhelds, but we probably won't know if they will bite on this until 2 or 3 years after the release of the NX. Maybe iterative consoles will be a passing fad by the time they get to that point, maybe not?

If you think about it, the Gamecube, Wii and WiiU are all iterative consoles, but Nintendo never really treated it like a business model. With the NX they are breaking that chain, and they need to too stay competitive.

For Microsoft? Ehh... This is the one that's the hardest to gauge right now. Phil has said that he isn't keen on the idea, but who knows if they will do a 180 on it. I have a feeling that they will be aiming for a new platform, though.
 
S

Steverulez

Member
BHK3 said:
It looks the same but it will never, ever, play the same. Lornes a smart guy but this iterative console thing is gonna blow up in their faces, phones are phones and consoles are consoles.
Click to expand...

I think its all about the regularity of the iterations. You don't need yearly or even bi-yearly i;d say. 3 years is sufficient to take advantage of tech improvements and keep your box around before the next one... maybe two years at a push on the odd occasion if theres big changes in between although I think that would be too much
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
I'm sure people threw around the idea of iterative consoles during the ps3 Era as well, and yet here we are with a ps4 that's sold 40 million and still going strong. If iterative consoles were the future, the demand for traditional generations would be lessened and that isn't shown in the market.
 
M

Man-is-Obsolete

Member
mysteriousmage09 said:
There's going to be a PS5. The time will eventually come where new hardware architectures will come into play that have vastly superior capabilities. They won't be able to keep the setup they currently have in the PS4 and Neo going forever. They will hit a wall in terms of what they can do with it and simply overclocking the ram and cpu isn't going to cut it. At that point, it's new console time.

The whole Neo thing is just so the console generation doesn't run into that wall faster.
Click to expand...

I see a mix of the two. The iteration after Neo would allow developers to make games exclusive to it, however, devs if they are so inclined could still target the Base PS4 and by nature of that hit the Neo and PS5. They could also offer presets for each model to run the game better on better hardware if they wanted as well. This is especially enticing for an indie dev that wants to reach a wide swath of people in one shot. Or Japanese publishers that keep one foot in the old gen for too long. Then the AAA people can target the PS5 and push it to the max.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
jacks81x said:
Lorne is a very smart man and one of the points he makes is very telling - that we're almost at the point now where a PS4/X1 game could potentially be released simultaneously on an iPad with visual fidelity that's not that much worse. That's a really scary thought IMO as a console gamer.
Click to expand...
I don't think most people want mobile games at high fidelity (outside of VR). Those high end games take much longer to load, drain the battery faster, take up too much space on devices with limited storage and don't necessarily offer the "quick fix" people are looking for.
 
K

kyser73

Member
mysteriousmage09 said:
There's going to be a PS5. The time will eventually come where new hardware architectures will come into play that have vastly superior capabilities. They won't be able to keep the setup they currently have in the PS4 and Neo going forever. They will hit a wall in terms of what they can do with it and simply overclocking the ram and cpu isn't going to cut it. At that point, it's new console time.

The whole Neo thing is just so the console generation doesn't run into that wall faster.
Click to expand...

At that point they'll drop the number and just call it PlayStation.

Also: Lorne should be a audiobook reader! Best voice.
 
F

Faustek

Member
dark10x said:
I don't think most people want mobile games at high fidelity (outside of VR). Those high end games take much longer to load, drain the battery faster, take up too much space on devices with limited storage and don't necessarily offer the "quick fix" people are looking for.
Click to expand...

That being the biggest reason why people actually play mobile games.

Anyway doesn't this mean that it'll just be a service with an attached piece of hardware? We have been thinking this for a while and it seems as many in the industry is going that way as well. That we will truly just have "The Playstation service"? To me it doesn't really matter as long as most of it is still hardware based. Actually all of it should be done on a fat client instead of cloud based junk and I'll be happy no matter what.
 
GHG

GHG

Gold Member
Thanks for posting OP.

The link he draws between iterative consoles and VR is an interesting one.
 
J

Jonboy

Member
That was a great listen. Thanks for sharing, OP.

MrCunningham said:
If you think about it, the Gamecube, Wii and WiiU are all iterative consoles, but Nintendo never really treated it like a business model. With the NX they are breaking that chain, and they need to to stay competitive.
Click to expand...

OrbitalBeard said:
You know....that's actually a pretty good point.
Click to expand...

9fe6B.jpg
 
F

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
MrCunningham said:
If you think about it, the Gamecube, Wii and WiiU are all iterative consoles, but Nintendo never really treated it like a business model. With the NX they are breaking that chain, and they need to to stay competitive.
Click to expand...
What? I would say the complete opposite. Gamecube, Wii and WiiU were all vastly different consoles
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
OrbitalBeard said:
Iterative console hardware is the future, without a doubt in my mind.
Click to expand...

Yearly iterations of consoles would be very damaging to the idea of consoles themselves. Issues you get with the PC model and none of the open hardware and software benefits. Also, the PC performance evolution is slowing down in pace, GPU's aside but they will slow down too, mobile are a completely different category.

If you think "big corporate leaders surely know more than us, trust their instincts/research"... well, you did go from Xbox 360 to Xbox One and Wii to Wii U.
 
GribbleGrunger

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
Sony need to go with PS/4K. This way they can separate the Playstation and the 4K and eventually just use Playstation for all of their consoles. When the next TV evolution hits its stride then they can release the PS/8K.
 
D

Dragon Puncher

Member
mysteriousmage09 said:
There's going to be a PS5. The time will eventually come where new hardware architectures will come into play that have vastly superior capabilities. They won't be able to keep the setup they currently have in the PS4 and Neo going forever. They will hit a wall in terms of what they can do with it and simply overclocking the ram and cpu isn't going to cut it. At that point, it's new console time.

The whole Neo thing is just so the console generation doesn't run into that wall faster.
Click to expand...

This. Also just en terms of marketing it makes sense to release a new model which you can then hype up when excitement about PS4 and NEO's are dying down.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
kittoo said:
Means Sony is going all in on the iterative model.
Click to expand...

Maybe, or that it was still up in the air what a 'ps5' might look like. I remember their CTO saying a little while back that he wasn't sure what 'ps5' might be yet, but that comment was in the context of whether it would be a box or a cloud orienrated service. I think we can say for sure though that Sony is sensing the need for a change in the model, and they're going to see if a looser hardware orientation (e.g. One platform = multiple different boxes) is it.
 
N

nelsonroyale

Member
Upgradeable should be the next thing. Yeah, that effectively makes it like a PC, but that is a more advanced model than where are currently at, particularly will sell phones. Sure, financially they are somehow managing to convince a huge amount of people to upgrade their phones every couple of years (Why? functionally there is very little difference, aesthetically less so...), but for me it is a boring, limited model for the long run. Modularity and upgradeability is where it is at. My main gripe is that I don't want to go through windows/OS x to play my games, and I want to play exclusive console (Sony) games. Otherwise the PC hardware model is straight up better. The thing which isn't, is the software and hardware advancements are not in parallel. High end hardware is far ahead of the curve, and not really giving the real benefits because few/no developers are targetting it.

Also, it doesn't seem like mobile visuals are catching up at all in like for like. Of course they can't until the size of gpus can deliver insane visuals across the board even at the smallest size, and the hardware side becomes obselete.
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
MrCunningham said:
For Sony, maybe. We will have to wait and see how well the PS4K takes off first.

For Nintendo? They have already been doing the iterative thing for a long time now with their handhelds, but we probably won't know if they will bite on this until 2 or 3 years after the release of the NX. Maybe iterative consoles will be a passing fad by the time they get to that point, maybe not?

If you think about it, the Gamecube, Wii and WiiU are all iterative consoles, but Nintendo never really treated it like a business model. With the NX they are breaking that chain, and they need to to stay competitive.

For Microsoft? Ehh... This is the one that's the hardest to gauge right now. Phil has said that he isn't keen on the idea, but who knows if they will do a 180 on it. I have a feeling that they will be aiming for a new platform, though.
Click to expand...

Yes, those are iterative consoles with traditional console generation business model.
Keeping the backward compatible but not forward compatible each gen.
It's best of both world and I hope Sony follow this model in stead of the iOS/PC model.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
Fantastapotamus said:
What? I would say the complete opposite. Gamecube, Wii and WiiU were all vastly different consoles
Click to expand...

The Wii is just a Gamecube with a 1.5x overclock on the CPU and GPU and a 50% RAM increase. Nintendo may have marketed it as a different console with motion controls, but it is still just an overclocked Gamecube under the hood. Very much iterative of its predecessor.

The WiiU does have a lot of new architecture changes, but pretty sure that the CPU cores are still based on Broadway. The machine does have perfect hardware compatibility with the Wii and can even run perfect Gamecube BC through hardware via some minor modding. Though Nintendo did make the system feel much more iterative by calling it the WiiU, even though the hardware was far more removed from the Wii than the Wii was from the GameCube. It goes to show how a name can change the perception of anything. Imagine if they called the Wii "Gamecube Plus"...

My point was that these machines are all based around a very similar architecture that Nintendo has been holding on to for the last 15 years. They are iterative of each other, but Nintendo hadn't really marketed them as such. The NX looks like it's going to be breaking this chain with a new x86-64 machine that will have no hardware BC with any of their previous systems.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
Mcdohl said:
No.

Nintendo 3DS and New Nintendo 3DS are.

But only a few titles were NN3DS exclusive or enhanced.
Click to expand...

Game Boy --> Game Boy Color . Same hardware with a minor upgrade in CPU clock speed and more RAM. The GBC does have exclusive games that will not work on previous GB models, and it even has cross compatible GB games.

DS --> DSi. The DSi does have a hardware boost over the DS, and there are exclusive DSi games because of it.

I could also say that the Nintendo DS is iterative of the GBA. All of the GBA hardware is built in the Nintendo DS and is used as part of the NDS's backbone.

Nintendo has been making iterative handhelds since 1998.


EDIT I didn't mean to make this a second post.
 
A

Azriell

Member
When you bring mobile/tablet gaming into the discussion, the argument for iterative consoles is even stronger. I remember a few years ago (maybe 5 or 6, when Infinity Blade was huge) hearing people talk about the growth of mobile tech, and how there was the potential that it would outpower PS3/360 before long. There's an obvious difference here, in that most mobile/tablet games can't afford to be as power hungry as they'd lilke, for fear of killing people's phones, but still. I'd be pretty bothered if a tablet game looked better than my PS4, or if the same game released on both, and the PS4 version was the inferior version.

Consoles are already so far behind PC, and technology moves so fast. Iterative consoles on a 2-3 year cycle that behave similarly to how to PC market works makes a lot of sense. It would suck to lose the concept of generations, so I hope that doesn't happen, but it would be nice if moving in this direction meant we don't ever have to worry about BC again. How nice would it be to be able to fire up any game from the last 50 years, just by sliding it into your PS10?
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
Anyone got a time stamp for when they start talking about the ps4k? I'm interested in this, but don't have 50 minutes right now.
 
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