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The Case for the PS4K: an important, and necessary, change for the industry.

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
So I posted this over on Gamasutra as I was a bit tired of insiders posting on behalf of developers that are "angry" over the PS4K. I wanted to take a more realistic view of what a PS4K could mean for the industry. It's posted in full below the link-

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidGalindo/20160422/271014/The_Case_for_the_PS4K.php

---

The console game industry is a slow, predictible one. You release a console, support it with everything you got, and if its successful you start engineering new "slim" models to help keep costs down while adding some minor new revisions. Then, in maybe 5-7 years time, you release the big new kahuna, and start again.

There have been some exceptions for sure. The PS3 actually saw its feature list cut as backward compatibility was removed in chunks in future hardware revisions. Nintendo opted for different upgrade paths, such as the Expansion Pak for the N64, or went a whole new hardware route like the DSi and New 3DS. Microsoft, despite rumors every year of a new optical drive-less system, keeps it relatively tame with a new "slim" 360 model, as the original Xbox did not have a long enough lifespan to merit a system revision, joining the likes of the GameCube, Dreamcast, and so many other consoles who didn't live to see a slimmer, smaller future.

This is, in fact, completely antithetical to the industry at large. Everything is improving yearly. New computers, new Blu-Ray players, new cars, new TVs, new blenders, and yes, new smartphones and tablets. But not game consoles. And so a predictable trend can occur: we see the rise in sales, followed by the plateau, and then the dip. By the time the dip happens, prices are slashed and rumors of the all new system are already happening. You can practically set your watch to it.

And then we have this...the PS4K. Assuming the leaks are true, it disrupts everything we know about the console market. Veteran game journalists, even those we can point to for a clear, precise measure on the news, are left saying, "what?" No one really seems to know what to make of this. And without Sony expanding on the news until a later event or even E3, there's not much to do other than speculate on the biggest question of all: why?


Generational Loyalty

I'm all over the place when it comes to game consoles. I stayed with Nintendo from the NES years to Gamecube, then won an Xbox at a graduation raffle and stuck with Microsoft to the 360 era, where I traded that in for a PS3 and ultimately stuck with the PS4. Broken chains in backward compatibility made it easy to jump around like that, whether it was hardware specific (N64 to GameCube) or a mix of software and hardware (Xbox to Xbox 360). Certainly there have been others who have stayed with one company forever.

Still, it was easy to see, at least in North America, the switch in momentum. The success of the PS2 followed with the success of the 360, and now we're back with the PS4 leading the sales charge (the Wii, of course, was a massive thing of its own, but ultimately lead with a lot of one-time buyers that didn't come back for the Wii U). There's no reason to stay loyal to any one company, in that there was never a guarantee that your purchases would be valid on the new consoles. Both the PS4 and XB1 opted to sever all ties with their respective predecessors, though like so many other things MS would try and reverse years down the line with a BC program.

The point is that generational loyalty up until now is fruitless unless you're specifically doing it for first party franchises, something that has become increasingly irrelevant (poor reception to a majority of new IPs both Sony and MS have tried to wheel out this gen) or getting a bit long in the tooth (can MS really launch Xbox 2 with Halo 7 and command the type of brand power that the franchise used to have?). Ultimately you go where your friends are, or where the games interest you the most. In a cycle that encourages players to slash ties with where they were coming from to a new platform that has everything they're looking for, how do you make sure that customers are tied down to a brand, or at least, have less of a reason to abandon it in favor of the other guys?

The way to do that is to blur the line of product cycles. Perhaps even erase it completely.


The Future is Here

It is a completely different shift to what we're used to. No longer will we be filing into the theater in a secret event broadcast streamed to the world, waiting to see what's underneath the curtain. The glamor and hype of a new console can now be broken down to what essentially are patch notes. Here's what's new in New Console 2017: a new GPU here, some CPU improvements here, runs all the same games, cya in 2020 for the next system.

It is certainly the biggest disappointment in this, if only because the spectacle of a new console launch is so much fun. But it is probably gone forever.

So what does that leave us with? A brand new console, coming way sooner than anyone has expected, that changes a generational cycle into a constantly refreshed cycle. No longer are there gaps in these product generations that allow for consumers to jump to other platforms, at least not one that's easily discernible. You probably didn't know it at the time, but that copy of Knack you bought in 2013 will be playable in 2023, on new hardware.

That's the benefit of the x86 architecture that Sony, MS and (its heavily rumored) Nintendo has chosen to use for their consoles. It prevents hard cuts to product life. The PS4 won't have an end-of-life cycle. It will continue to be produced, at a cost that benefits Sony, until it is phased out in favor of a new hardware revision.

And that's the whole point of the PS4K: in an age where tech advances are slowing to a point where a technological leap is impossible without a high cost or a long wait, companies have to change up this cycle. Digital Foundry pointed out that tech improvements are slowing to a crawl. Will consumers actually wait until 2022 to get a generational leap in graphics at a consumer friendly price?

What if they didn't have to wait?

Think about how unfriendly the current generational lifecycle is for the average consumer. They can either come in too early at high adopter prices and a slow start of game releases, or right in the middle where sales peak and deals are good, or come it at the end, where support will soon be ending for the system and mere years or even months are left for game releases. If they don't hit that sweet spot, they can be left holding the bag on a system that has been essentially abandoned in favor of the all new console.


Games as a Service

The worst thing about generational leaps is that it simply doesn't work in today's game industry. We're starting to pivot into the idea of games as a service. This was teased towards the end of the PS3/360 lifecycle, but its really coming into its own with games like The Division and Destiny having a strong online base with roadmaps for the future. It is dependant on one thing, really: a healthy userbase to get users from, which is easily disrupted by a generational gap.

Imagine for a second that you're running a major studio, and you want to create the next big online game. Development starts tomorrow, with the game releasing late 2018. If the PS4K does not exist, and the PS5 creates this chasm as all generation leaps do, then what can you do? Develop for the PS4, and have tools in place to bridge the gap to the PS5 when it comes out? This is essentially what Destiny is doing, but it comes at a major cost, something that Activision and probably other major publishers like EA and Ubisoft can support, but few others can.

See, not only are consumers used to this cycle of set lifetimes for consoles, but game development also has to plan around it. Do you release a new IP late in the cycle of a console, or hold it back for the new system, which will have added costs and a new set of developmental issues with a much smaller userbase, but the potential for expansion in the future?

With this new cycle, you don't have to worry about that anymore. The PS4 is also the PS4K, and is probably the PS5 too. When the PS4K launches, it will already have a userbase of over 40 million players. It already has all of the developmental tools that have matured and strengthened over the last few years. There's no risk to building the next big online game late in the PS4 future, because the transition over to the new system is built into the ecosystem. This is a huge, huge benefit to game development.

There are some who feel like a revision in the middle of a console's lifespan is pointless, and that Sony should have waited for the PS5. I have news for you: this is not the middle of the PS4's lifespan, and there is no PS5. There will be a new console after the PS4K, and that will be an upgraded version of the PS4K. This is the new life cycle, of which there is no beginning, middle, or (hopefully) end.


Wave of Anger

Certainly there will be anger to come with this news; it's already happening, but then again, it always happens with everything. The internet amplifies everything to a degree that it becomes somewhat impossible to measure the actual consumer response to things until they're released.

What it comes down to is, how will this translate in the marketplace? Quite easily, actually: here's the PS4, at a new lower price, and here's the new PS4K, which is more powerful and a little more expensive too. Which one do you want?

And that's the new future of game consoles: a life cycle that never ends, that is constantly updated, that largely benefits game development and also benefits new consumers ready to jump into games whenever they'd like. This is a major, positive change for the industry.

I will miss the idea of a new console that completely disrupts the industry with new exotic hardware and a whole new way to play a game. In fact, that era might end with Nintendo, who prepares to put the Wii U behind them with an all new game console that could be radically different than anything they've done before.

But the time for disruptive product cycles is over. There's too much risk involved, with game budgets more expensive than ever, and other markets increasingly eating away at each other. There was a lot of debate before this generation launched on whether or not there was even a market for game consoles anymore as the PS3 and 360 quickly plummeted in sales. The PS4 answered that question with a resounding yes. I wonder what answers the PS4K will bring.
 

border

Member
"The time for disruptive models is over" strikes me as a bit naive, considering that VR is right around the corner, threatening a huge disruption and necessitating generational leaps in power rather than incremental ones.
 

sense

Member
Reposting my view from other thread

"I know the constant question by Colin is why is Sony doing this so let me make some assumptions as to why Sony might be doing this and people can correct me if I am wrong

Cost of making ps4 is 250 and they will likely sell it at 299 retail going forward
Cost of making ps4k is 300 or even 325 and they will likely sell it at 399 which means a higher profit margin

There will always be people that are price conscious and don't care for extra bells and whistles so regular ps4 sales aren't going to suddenly take a huge hit and at the end of the day Sony doesn't care as long as you are buying one of them. I bought an iPad Air 2 knowing full well better versions were coming out the year after because it was good enough for me.

A lot of fans including myself would love to buy the ps4k because it is providing a meaningful benefit rather than just a slim version meaning they are getting people that were set for 6 or 7 years to think about getting new hardware. I stuck with my original PS3 for the entire gen and I am interested in buying a ps4k which is a win for Sony

4K support is something Sony has vested interest in and would want to incentivize people that own the older model to upgrade or people that are going to jump in to buy the newer model which provides them a bigger profit. There is also likely pressure from Netflix, Amazon, YouTube to support 4K streaming as I remember an article from last year that quoted Netflix ceo expecting newer machines with 4K streaming capability

Don't give people a chance to leave the ecosystem and join another by having frequent (3 years makes sense for consoles) iterative products that are backwards compatible. Why do you think most people are hesitant to jump from iPhone to android phones or vice versa because once you are familiar with an ecosystem and are given options to carry everything forward to the new device without additional cost they don't mind staying put and not want to put up with any hassle."
 

Ethelwulf

Member
...A brand new console, coming way sooner than anyone has expected, that changes a generational cycle into a constantly refreshed cycle. No longer are there gaps in these product generations that allow for consumers to jump to other platforms, at least not one that's easily discernible.

I agree op, and I don't think there's much of a chance if consoles are going to continue being a closed ecosystem. PC gaming is getting cheaper and cheaper. There needs to be a change and we need to adapt. Good Reed thank you.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
"The time for disruptive models is over" strikes me as a bit naive, considering that VR is right around the corner, threatening a huge disruption and necessitating generational leaps in power rather than incremental ones.
VR is not a platform, it's an added accessory to the PS4. So you can't really compare it to the traditional games industry.

If it does disrupt the market with its success, it adds a new avenue for new types of games, but it won't change the standard games industry. To put it another way, Call of Duty won't be going VR exclusive anytime soon. :p
 

Mobius 1

Member
Excellent and I'm ready for it. I will miss the hype and show of a console unveiling, but even that is not completely lost.
 

krang

Member
VR is not a platform, it's an added accessory to the PS4. So you can't really compare it to the traditional games industry.

If it does disrupt the market with its success, it adds a new avenue for new types of games, but it won't change the standard games industry. To put it another way, Call of Duty won't be going VR exclusive anytime soon. :p

Ahem...

I actually agree with you, FWIW.
 

border

Member
How does the "games as service" model really benefit from this?

I mean, he gives Destiny as an example but I don't see how that hashes out. Even assuming that Sony had made a Playstation 3.5, Bungie's Destiny engine would still be largely based around archaic hardware with ridiculous memory constraints.

Park of the PS4K's problem is that it's really not much of a leap forward at all, so I don't see how it makes generational transitions any smoother. All it does is make consumers doubly commit to oldass technology by overclocking it once per generation.
 

Hektor

Member
Generational Loyalty

I'm all over the place when it comes to game consoles. I stayed with Nintendo from the NES years to Gamecube, then won an Xbox at a graduation raffle and stuck with Microsoft to the 360 era, where I traded that in for a PS3 and ultimately stuck with the PS4. Broken chains in backward compatibility made it easy to jump around like that, whether it was hardware specific (N64 to GameCube) or a mix of software and hardware (Xbox to Xbox 360). Certainly there have been others who have stayed with one company forever.

Still, it was easy to see, at least in North America, the switch in momentum. The success of the PS2 followed with the success of the 360, and now we're back with the PS4 leading the sales charge (the Wii, of course, was a massive thing of its own, but ultimately lead with a lot of one-time buyers that didn't come back for the Wii U). There's no reason to stay loyal to any one company, in that there was never a guarantee that your purchases would be valid on the new consoles. Both the PS4 and XB1 opted to sever all ties with their respective predecessors, though like so many other things MS would try and reverse years down the line with a BC program.

The point is that generational loyalty up until now is fruitless unless you're specifically doing it for first party franchises, something that has become increasingly irrelevant (poor reception to a majority of new IPs both Sony and MS have tried to wheel out this gen) or getting a bit long in the tooth (can MS really launch Xbox 2 with Halo 7 and command the type of brand power that the franchise used to have?). Ultimately you go where your friends are, or where the games interest you the most. In a cycle that encourages players to slash ties with where they were coming from to a new platform that has everything they're looking for, how do you make sure that customers are tied down to a brand, or at least, have less of a reason to abandon it in favor of the other guys?

The way to do that is to blur the line of product cycles. Perhaps even erase it completely.

And all that is a good thing for customers.

Brand loyalty is an inherently bad thing for everyone except for the owner of the brand.
 

low-G

Member
Pretty one sided article, you don't even touch on any of the potential negatives.

You cannot maintain forward comparability forever. What happens when a developer wants to take advantage of the 16GB RAM on the PS5? What happens to consumer confusion regarding what games are supported on which platforms? What happens with the level of a playing field if an online game runs significantly better on one system than another?

How can you afford constant R&D costs if you aren't selling Apple numbers? What happens to firmware updates when the PS4 is holding back PS5.5's operation or security?
 

Madness

Member
I disagree solely due to the fact that you are creating tiered and substandard experiences for some who cannot afford the latest and greatest across the board.

I'm frankly shocked at how many are trying to pass this off as necessary and good for the console consumer as opposed to a sheer profit grab for hardware manufacturers.

There is a reason developers are also speaking out against this in secret. There is a reason you are able to get 10 years of development on Xbox 360 and go from a game like Call of Duty 2 to Grand Theft Auto V. For conversation sake, lets say little Timmy bought his PS4 for $399 at launch. Less than 3 years later he will theoretically buy improved PS4 hardware for $399. He is spending $800 for a console generation. Not that he doesn't have to buy it. But Sony's goal will be to get a lot of loyal adopters to double dip. Why wouldn't you go PC then? The one sheer advantage of consoles over PC has been closed and never changing architecture. This allows developers to improve and innovate with each sequel or subsequent game. Just look at the first Uncharted on PS3 versus the Last of Us.

Now Sony has said that PS4 has to be the primary system, that experiences beyond resolution and framerate and graphics cannot happen. But they're still essentially relegating those now almost 38 million+ PS4 buyers to second tier status. For devs in an industry where they are already outsourcing tons of work to other studios, where they can barely have games run on Xbox One and PS4 without massive day one patches and bugs and exploits, they now have to develop for hardware that could be ever changing every few years.

I get the advantages. This is the N64 expansion pak to the next level. But let's not pretend this is great for gamers as consumers or the console industry. This is solely about a giant corporation who wants to use declining hardware sales and leverage its brand into higher profit margins with new consoles. Apple and phone manufacturers are highly successful with convincing consumers that they need the next years phone because of the 2 megapixel camera increase and slight change to gpu etc.

But these are just my thoughts. Let's see what happens. The industry is going to change whether we like it or not.
 

sono

Gold Member
Great post OP. I was not happy about a PS4K at first but my opinion is changing slowly.

Great post agreed that furthers the discussion, however my opinion is not changing.

My opinion is that am concerned that the user base who buy consoles based on long term certainty (and in what is essentially a home luxury item) will just not buy one at all which has a shorter time before a faster/higher spec one comes out. (unless each is priced proportionally less which it wont be)

Buying a £$350 entertainment device and associated spending on games that lasts at least 7 years is a lot cheaper per year compared to one that lasts 4 or less..

I am hoping that Sony justify the PS4K solely on a one time change to support both 4K and VR and this is the exception. This will mean people buying 4K may consider it a longer term platform investment. My fear is that such trust may be lost for this iteration never to be regained..
 
This is the most sound opinion piece I've read these past weeks on the PS4K subject.

This approach will most likely ensure compatibility with all PlayStation games and less time for developers to spend experimenting on exotic new hardware every 6 or 7 years. I mean come on....we had to wait 7 years for Naughty Dog(!) to master the PS3 and give us a visual and gameplay masterpiece like The Last Of Us. These long cycles will now be a thing of the past. This can only be good news, as long as Sony will treat the consumer with respect (and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't since they saw how this lead to the success of PS4)
 
If this becomes the norm all it'll mean is that I won't get every console at the start. For example I've barely touched my bone zone since launch. It'd be something like get ps5, then the Xbox, and maybe the Nintendo console around then too.
 

Moneal

Member
How does the "games as service" model really benefit from this?

I mean, he gives Destiny as an example but I don't see how that hashes out. Even assuming that Sony had made a Playstation 3.5, Bungie's Destiny engine would still be largely based around archaic hardware with ridiculous memory constraints.

Park of the PS4K's problem is that it's really not much of a leap forward at all, so I don't see how it makes generational transitions any smoother. All it does is make consumers doubly commit to oldass technology by overclocking it once per generation.
The op thinks we are at the point where leaps forward will be much smaller than we are used to, and i agree. Ps5 or what ever sony puts out after ps4k will be just 2 to 5 times as powerful as ps4k. Comparatively the ps4 was 10 times as powerful as ps3.
 

Wollan

Member
It is the right move for the industry and everyone is doing it. New Nintendo 3DS (arguably) and PS4K are the first iterative gaming devices with Xbox 1.5 ("two") to follow.

OP is spot on with all points.
I would also like to add that it's benefitial to separate console 'lifespan' from that of the perhiperals. PSVR has its own lifespan separate from that of PS4 and PS4K.
 
Making a multi-million$ blockbuster in like 1 year is next to impossible. Even if you pulled it off releasing that on a console that has a 2.5 year life expectancy just seems like suicide. I just don't think that is a sustainable business model. So what choice have you got but to make quick cheap crap and try to turn a profit?

I don't think it's good for gamers or very good for devs. But that's just my shortsighted view.
 
"The time for disruptive models is over" strikes me as a bit naive, considering that VR is right around the corner, threatening a huge disruption and necessitating generational leaps in power rather than incremental ones.

Not sure if that is disruptive, more than additive.

It is just adding more content to what we already have, on the same digital user platforms that we already are invested in. PSVR requires a PS4, or PS4K, and is tied to the same digital and physical games distribution platform: PlayStation.

It's new, but new =/= disruptive.
 
Interesting read, thanks OP. I always got the "business" side of why a shift like this would happen, but tackling the issue from a developer's perspective, for both the system makers and game makers, definitely helps to clear up some of the ambiguity surrounding the rationale.
 

J-Spot

Member
I disagree solely due to the fact that you are creating tiered and substandard experiences for some who cannot afford the latest and greatest across the board.
That's no different from selling cross-gen titles except now when you buy the upgraded hardware your existing copy of the game becomes upgraded as well.
 
How does the "games as service" model really benefit from this?

I mean, he gives Destiny as an example but I don't see how that hashes out. Even assuming that Sony had made a Playstation 3.5, Bungie's Destiny engine would still be largely based around archaic hardware with ridiculous memory constraints.

Park of the PS4K's problem is that it's really not much of a leap forward at all, so I don't see how it makes generational transitions any smoother. All it does is make consumers doubly commit to oldass technology by overclocking it once per generation.
I don't get it either. I don't think PS5 owners are going to want their games being held back by PS4K any more than PS4 owners wanted their games being held back by PS3. We literally just got free of cross-gen hell and this is just going to extend this generation. People might have been willing to ditch their PS4s already in late 2018/early 2019. That is not going to happen if people bought a PS4K less than 2 years before.
 
Great read OP. Even though I have no plans to buy a PS4K I was feeling pretty okay with it but I couldn't really articulate why. I gotta say you've summed up my feelings perfectly.
 
There is a reason developers are also speaking out against this in secret. There is a reason you are able to get 10 years of development on Xbox 360 and go from a game like Call of Duty 2 to Grand Theft Auto V. For conversation sake, lets say little Timmy bought his PS4 for $399 at launch. Less than 3 years later he will theoretically buy improved PS4 hardware for $399. He is spending $800 for a console generation. Not that he doesn't have to buy it. But Sony's goal will be to get a lot of loyal adopters to double dip. Why wouldn't you go PC then? The one sheer advantage of consoles over PC has been closed and never changing architecture. This allows developers to improve and innovate with each sequel or subsequent game. Just look at the first Uncharted on PS3 versus the Last of Us.
.
They won't switch because they are loyal to the brand. That's where their friends are. I got a PS3 because my friends were on it even though most of our peers were 360 fans. I feel like this "go PC" argument is completely ignoring that.
 
I have a hard time believing the PS4K will be $399. The console's increased GPU specs match a derivative of AMD's next-gen 14nm FinFET Polaris 10 Ellesmere GPU technology, which will likely boost the price a fair amount. Polaris will enable 1080p 60FPS native and 4K upscaling, but that performance will come at a premium.

Also we'll likely see an onboard UHD 4K Blu-ray player and that'll drive up prices more. Of course the UHD player hasn't been confirmed, but it'd be a great way to incentivize sales and offer a fantastic entry point to 4K video, the same way PS3 did for Blu-ray and PS2 for DVD.

Given this, I'd say at least $500, maybe more.
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
I think MS is in a hard place with the XB1.

With every hard console reset, every hardware maker has a chance to get out in first and essentially stay there for the next 7 years.

If Sony plays this right, the hard reset is over. All your PS4 shit will continue to carry over, there is no reason to make a switch anymore. Like Chubbs said, in 20 years, your copy of Knack might still be playable on the newest hardware, which is VERY enticing. Your library no longer gets reset.

Right now, Sony has to get EVERYONE under the Playstation banner. Once they get people locked in, it is going to be very hard to get them out. Couple that with a $199 PS4 and a $399 Neo? Couple that with the huge rise of digital games that are tied to your account?
 
Well I simply do not agree with this at all and I hope it flops. I think console generations are good the way they've always been.
 

ElFly

Member
It is important to give your clients as many chances of giving you money as possible.

That's all this is. There's a gaf segment who love spending money on games and the PS4K is exactly for them.

Nevermind it screws the devs and the people who already bought the regular console, they got money to burn in their pocket.
 
My problem with this whole ordeal is that I already have a gaming PC. My iterative hardware needs are covered, so I buy consoles for something different, something fixed and paradigmatic. By removing that, you remove why I buy consoles in the first place.

So yeah, I'm not angry or anything remotely related to feeling my PS4 is being left behind or some shit, but with how much consoles cost in my country buying one ever few years simply isn't feasible, and that's where I take my leave from non-Nintendo console gaming.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Oh wow, neogaf accepting this so easily is disturbing to say the least. I hope nintendo makes it clear that NX will not become iterative, cause it might be the only console i buy to complement my PC.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Thanks for the feedback! Nice to have some good, solid discussion on all this.

How does the "games as service" model really benefit from this?

I mean, he gives Destiny as an example but I don't see how that hashes out. Even assuming that Sony had made a Playstation 3.5, Bungie's Destiny engine would still be largely based around archaic hardware with ridiculous memory constraints.

Park of the PS4K's problem is that it's really not much of a leap forward at all, so I don't see how it makes generational transitions any smoother. All it does is make consumers doubly commit to oldass technology by overclocking it once per generation.

To call the rumored specs "oldass technology" is, quite frankly, completely wrong. As far as tying generations down to the previous one, you're right: we're going to see two systems that create some friction between each other. The answer isn't to create a massive leap into a new generation and cut off the previous one. Games as an industry can't sustain that model anymore, and it's a pointless endeavor, business wise.

And all that is a good thing for customers.

Brand loyalty is an inherently bad thing for everyone except for the owner of the brand.

I'm not saying brand loyalty is great, but it is an added effect on this new generation of consoles.

Pretty one sided article, you don't even touch on any of the potential negatives.

That's what this thread is for! :D To respond to your questions:

You cannot maintain forward comparability forever. What happens when a developer wants to take advantage of the 16GB RAM on the PS5? What happens to consumer confusion regarding what games are supported on which platforms? What happens with the level of a playing field if an online game runs significantly better on one system than another?

How can you afford constant R&D costs if you aren't selling Apple numbers? What happens to firmware updates when the PS4 is holding back PS5.5's operation or security?

-You're asking what a developer will do with a theoretical system that is a leap beyond another system. I don't know. All I know is what we're looking at here with these rumored specs, and you're already wanting to jump 3-4 years into the future.
-Customer confusion: there is none. All games are PS4 games. You have two systems to choose from that will play them all.
-Level playing field regarding online: that's a theoretical thing that doesn't actually exist on the field. You need a SIGNIFICANT change in graphics to boost another player's advantage. I mean hugely significant. A couple of frames here and there won't change anything, nor does it really affect PC games that have had to deal with this issue for ages.
-R&D costs? I'd wager these revisions are significantly less expensive than a brand new console. Significantly.
-Firmware updates in regards to a console that's 10-12 years away? Who the heck knows?


I disagree solely due to the fact that you are creating tiered and substandard experiences for some who cannot afford the latest and greatest across the board.

I'm frankly shocked at how many are trying to pass this off as necessary and good for the console consumer as opposed to a sheer profit grab for hardware manufacturers.

There is a reason developers are also speaking out against this in secret. There is a reason you are able to get 10 years of development on Xbox 360 and go from a game like Call of Duty 2 to Grand Theft Auto V. For conversation sake, lets say little Timmy bought his PS4 for $399 at launch. Less than 3 years later he will theoretically buy improved PS4 hardware for $399. He is spending $800 for a console generation. Not that he doesn't have to buy it. But Sony's goal will be to get a lot of loyal adopters to double dip. Why wouldn't you go PC then? The one sheer advantage of consoles over PC has been closed and never changing architecture. This allows developers to improve and innovate with each sequel or subsequent game. Just look at the first Uncharted on PS3 versus the Last of Us.

Now Sony has said that PS4 has to be the primary system, that experiences beyond resolution and framerate and graphics cannot happen. But they're still essentially relegating those now almost 38 million+ PS4 buyers to second tier status. For devs in an industry where they are already outsourcing tons of work to other studios, where they can barely have games run on Xbox One and PS4 without massive day one patches and bugs and exploits, they now have to develop for hardware that could be ever changing every few years.

I get the advantages. This is the N64 expansion pak to the next level. But let's not pretend this is great for gamers as consumers or the console industry. This is solely about a giant corporation who wants to use declining hardware sales and leverage its brand into higher profit margins with new consoles. Apple and phone manufacturers are highly successful with convincing consumers that they need the next years phone because of the 2 megapixel camera increase and slight change to gpu etc.

But these are just my thoughts. Let's see what happens. The industry is going to change whether we like it or not.

Developers "speaking out against this in secret" is blatantly false, as Colin (who made that infamous tweet) later clarified to my knowledge that it was one guy, who asked another dev.

And as far as all the other strawman arguments go, it's hard to argue with someone who thinks this generation now costs $800-900. What am I supposed to say to something like that, other than, hey, don't buy it if you don't want to spend that kind of money? But that makes me sound like a tool, right? These kind of arguments are hard to talk against because it's this idea of having to upgrade that is just misguided and not really anything you can argue against, except to say, yeah, I don't agree at all.

If this becomes the norm all it'll mean is that I won't get every console at the start. For example I've barely touched my bone zone since launch. It'd be something like get ps5, then the Xbox, and maybe the Nintendo console around then too.

And that's OK! In fact, by not upgrading you're sure to get a lot, if not all, of the games released for new systems on your old system, something that no other console has been able to guarantee in a generational gap.

Making a multi-million$ blockbuster in like 1 year is next to impossible. Even if you pulled it off releasing that on a console that has a 2.5 year life expectancy just seems like suicide. I just don't think that is a sustainable business model. So what choice have you got but to make quick cheap crap and try to turn a profit?

I don't think it's good for gamers or very good for devs. But that's just my shortsighted view.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing against here, because this change actually prevents everything you're saying from happening- there is no life expectancy anymore for consoles, if this change works out.
 
I agree, it's necessary and the right move for the industry. I will miss the full utilization of a closed platform's power of prior generations but technology needs to move forward faster in today's world.
 
What sort of guarantee do you have that whatever comes after the PS4K will extend the same model? Sony's last box wasn't backwards compatible at all, and MS has hacked it in piece by piece.
 
I disagree solely due to the fact that you are creating tiered and substandard experiences for some who cannot afford the latest and greatest across the board.

Or you're allowing people with the disposable income to buy a slightly better experience and allow 4K tv owners to get actual 4K video output upscaled for the tvs they use?

Like Chub says, the market will decide.

But like airline seats, tickets to the football match or movie seats, if you're willing to pay more, you can have a slightly better experience. But everyone gets to the same destination, everyone sees the same match, everyone sees the same film.
 
Although I think there'll still be a new generation at some point, I mostly agree with you OP.

How can you afford constant R&D costs if you aren't selling Apple numbers? What happens to firmware updates when the PS4 is holding back PS5.5's operation or security?

Support will simply be dropped? Active users will move with the hardware.
 

vpance

Member
It makes sense from a financial perspective. Why not make the most of a die shrink and release both a regular slim model and a high spec one, at a profit? I think in this day and age, the console market can support a high end model. The growing interest in 4K and higher quality PC gaming proves it. Marketing wise, mobile and other gadget tech with various spec models shows the masses are at least receptive to that kind of delineation.

Slims open the door to a lower price point but that left the more core, enthusiast market undercatered to.
 
Or you're allowing people with the disposable income to buy a slightly better experience and allow 4K tv owners to get actual 4K video output upscaled for the tvs they use?

This isn't a government service. There's no law demanding equality.

Like Chub says, the market will decide.

But like airline seats, tickets to the football match or movie seats, if you're willing to pay more, you can have a slightly better experience. But everyone gets to the same destination, everyone sees the same match, everyone sees the same film.
There's already a product for people who want to pay lots of money for 4K gaming
 
My problem with this whole ordeal is that I already have a gaming PC. My iterative hardware needs are covered, so I buy consoles for something different, something fixed and paradigmatic. By removing that, you remove why I buy consoles in the first place.

So yeah, I'm not angry or anything remotely related to feeling my PS4 is being left behind or some shit, but with how much consoles cost in my country buying one ever few years simply isn't feasible, and that's where I take my leave from non-Nintendo console gaming.

One question, did you own original 3ds and do you own a n3ds?
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
I think MS is in a hard place with the XB1.

With every hard console reset, every hardware maker has a chance to get out in first and essentially stay there for the next 7 years.

If Sony plays this right, the hard reset is over. All your PS4 shit will continue to carry over, there is no reason to make a switch anymore. Like Chubbs said, in 20 years, your copy of Knack might still be playable on the newest hardware, which is VERY enticing. Your library no longer gets reset.

Right now, Sony has to get EVERYONE under the Playstation banner. Once they get people locked in, it is going to be very hard to get them out. Couple that with a $199 PS4 and a $399 Neo? Couple that with the huge rise of digital games that are tied to your account?

I totally agree; I don't know what their next move is. It's a hard place right now for them.

Well I simply do not agree with this at all and I hope it flops. I think console generations are good the way they've always been.

Except they no longer exist in this tech cycle anymore. So your next generational leap isn't 5-6 years anymore, it's way beyond that.

It is important to give your clients as many chances of giving you money as possible.

That's all this is. There's a gaf segment who love spending money on games and the PS4K is exactly for them.

Nevermind it screws the devs and the people who already bought the regular console, they got money to burn in their pocket.

How does it screw devs exactly? I am a dev and I'm eagerly awaiting your answer. :)

There's already a product for people who want to pay lots of money for 4K gaming

And now there's two. So?
 
There's already a product for people who want to pay lots of money for 4K gaming

What's that, a PC? So people who want to play on consoles that own a 4K tv should just wait until 2019 or 2020 and the next gen so someone who doesn't want to buy a PS4K can feel content no one is having a slightly better graphical experience than they are?
 
Oh wow, neogaf accepting this so easily is disturbing to say the least. I hope nintendo makes it clear that NX will not become iterative, cause it might be the only console i buy to complement my PC.
Gaf isn't a hive mind. Every thread about iterative console has been pretty divisive so I'm not sure where you're going with that statement. Nintendo seems to be doing something similar if you follow the leak threads about the specs.
What sort of guarantee do you have that whatever comes after the PS4K will extend the same model? Sony's last box wasn't backwards compatible at all, and MS has hacked it in piece by piece.
We don't have a guarantee. Every single statement is an assumption; that includes those who paint visions of disaster in the future.
 
What's that, a PC? So people who want to play on consoles that own a 4K tv should just wait until 2019 or 2020 and the next gen so someone who doesn't want to buy a PS4K can feel content no one is having a better experience than they are?
This isn't a government service. There's no law demanding that you should be able to play at 4K on a console.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
People are saying we are moving forward faster and this is the need for this kinda change but PS4K is barely any different to what we already have which is supposed to be weak/dated at launch and come another 3 years it'll be time for nextgen but I'm not seeing it.
The next upgrade will be hardly any different from PS4K so how is it moving faster? It's hit a wall and little updates is all that's left
Now if in 3 years PS5 is released and is a big jump graphically then what was the point of the meaningless upgrade midgen?
Don't get me wrong I wanna see PS4K show me I need one. That what it does isn't possible on current console tech.
 
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