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Tech Interview: Gears of War 4

SOR5

Member
Source: Digital Foundry
Link here


and a few snippets
Game-Informer-april-2016-cover-Gears-of-War-4-Banner-817x320.jpg

The Coalition has been hard at work on Gears of War 4 for years now, but 2016 is the year when fans will finally get their hands on the game. Microsoft showed off an impressive demo of Gears 4 at its E3 media briefing this year and we were impressed to learn that it was shown running on Xbox One when a PC version is also in development. The Gears franchise has always pushed the boundaries of console hardware, but the transition to a new hardware platform using a new engine with a new team is no trivial matter.

As striking as the E3 stage demo was, it's the 25-minute demonstration shown off later that impressed us the most. The game's co-op mode was demonstrated using both the Xbox One and PC versions of the game thanks to the Xbox Play Anywhere initiative. The PC was connected to a massive 98-inch 4K LCD display with the game operating at this extremely high resolution and it looked great. Next to this, however, was an Xbox One S connected to a 65" HDR-capable LG OLED display. Despite the higher resolution on PC, the strength of HDR combined with the remarkable performance of the OLED display resulted in a breathtaking presentation. We had our doubts about HDR displays but, after the demo, we immediately started price-checking HDR-capable OLED TVs. It was that impressive.

Beyond that, the game was shown running at a consistent 30 frames per second on the Xbox One S. The quality of the animation, post-processing, materials, and effects really pushes Gears 4 to the forefront of real-time rendering on the platform and we simply had to know more. The result is this interview.

What is it like working with Unreal Engine 4 on Xbox One? What impact does HDR have on workflow? What features are going to be included in the PC version? Mike Rayner, Technical Director for The Coalition, answers all of these questions and many more.

Digital Foundry: Many developers have struggled with Unreal Engine 4 on consoles yet it's clear that Gears of War 4 is shaping up to be one of the most impressive-looking titles on Xbox One. Could you elaborate on your experience with the engine and how things have evolved since development first started?

Mike Rayner: All past Gears titles used Unreal Engine 3. Gears of War 4 will be the first Gears game on Unreal Engine 4 and is the technical foundation for a new generation of Gears games. UE4 is optimised for modern triple-A content workflows, with a completely new rendering engine, and major improvements in almost every part of the engine.

The Coalition was one of the first studios outside of Epic Games to get early access to Unreal Engine 4 in early 2012. We have a great working relationship with the Unreal Engine team. As a member of the Unreal Engine Technical Advisory Board we have continuously encouraged improvements to the engine for triple-A development. Microsoft has contributed to UE4 platform features such as DirectX 12 as well as numerous optimisations and bug fixes. Epic Games constantly improves and evolves the engine and we have kept pace by upgrading to the latest versions throughout development. Gears of War 4 will ship on UE 4.11 along with many of our own custom extensions and improvements.

Through our team's experience with Unreal Engine Development and Microsoft's deep platform experience, we have been able to push the engine to new heights and deliver what we hope is not only the best Gears game for fans, but also a defining visual showcase on Xbox One.

Digital Foundry: With Gears of War: Ultimate Edition, there was a decision to stick with a forward rendering path. Has that changed with the move to Unreal Engine 4 while developing Gears 4?

Mike Rayner: Gears of War: Ultimate Edition was running on a heavily upgraded Unreal 3 engine and was still using a forward rendered path. With Gears 4 we have entirely switched over to Unreal Engine 4's fully deferred rendering engine. Deferred rendering allows for a richer visual quality feature set and more advanced post-processing with attractive performance characteristics enabling increased lighting complexity through decoupling scene geometry from lighting.

Digital Foundry: How has the rendering system changed since Gears Ultimate?

Mike Rayner: We started with a clean slate on Gears 4. There were a few key optimisation tricks, using the hardware optimally, that we picked up during the development of Gears of War: Ultimate Edition that we have moved over. Then we've scrutinised, analysed and optimised every part of the Unreal 4 rendering pipeline. Epic Games has some of the brightest graphics engineers on the planet and they've really outdone themselves this time with Unreal 4 and provided a great starting point for developers.

We have worked closely with Epic Games and exchanged ideas for improvements and optimisations along the way. Parallel rendering was a new feature that was developed by Epic Games and was made available to us during development of Gears 4. This really transformed the rendering pipeline and was a massive power boost in terms of throughput. The Coalition then, working closely with Microsoft's internal D3D12 dev team, transitioned the engine fully to D3D12 on Xbox One - and this again boosted performance greatly for us, and there is still potential to push the engine even further under D3D12.

Digital Foundry: What sort of differences are there when going between the SP and MP renderers?

Mike Rayner: Multiplayer responsiveness at a smooth 60fps is a key focus for which we needed to take a different approach than the 30fps in campaign. For SP we have everything on that UE4 offers and more - allowing the campaign to deliver the highest visual showcase possible. For MP, we disable some secondary systems such as refraction, lens flares, screen space reflections (for some levels), and motion blur. We also did some heavy modifications to UE4's bloom, tone mapper, and decal system to make them as optimal as possible. We wrote our own flavor of the 'significance' system that Paragon uses, enabling player characters to have the highest rendering quality with intelligent dynamic level of detail management for non-player characters.

Digital Foundry: Is the game built as a DX12-only title (with certain low-level Xbox additions console-side)?

Mike Rayner: Gears of War 4 is a DirectX 12 title on both Xbox One and Windows 10. Working with Microsoft's Silicon, Graphics and Media team and Epic, we have transitioned Unreal Engine fully to DX12. DirectX 12 has allowed us to increase performance by giving us more direct control over the hardware, simplifying the driver layer, and allowing us to make fully informed and optimal decisions on how to manage graphics resources.

Digital Foundry: What are your thoughts on the changing console landscape we're seeing with Project Scorpio and the PlayStation Neo? How much of an impact do you feel this might have on development?

Mike Rayner: For Gears development, we are in a really good position to leverage Project Scorpio to its fullest while continuing a no-compromise approach for all platforms we currently ship the game on. We have invested in scalable features in our engine to support a broad range of GPUs and performance profiles for PC and Console. We have authored our content at 4K, which allows us to show higher resolutions with increased source content detail on the highest end GPUs.

As a developer I find it very attractive having a universal platform to target and optimise our game across multiple Windows Devices: Xbox One, Xbox One S, Project Scorpio, and Windows 10. With the universal platform, we can do this in a manner that allows everyone to play together over Xbox Live without compromising our ability to push each device to its full potential while leaving none of our fans behind, no matter what device they play on.
 

SOR5

Member
also a few things from WCCFTechs coverage of the interview

Rayner also clarified some comments made by Studio Head Rod Fergusson when the Xbox One S was announced, regarding its hardware advantages over the basic console.

"We render our game at 1080p with some extra computation to support HDR and hardware scaling to 4K resolution if enabled. The Xbox One S allows us to add support for HDR and hardware scaled 4K output without additional demand on our game or compromising performance in any way."

When it comes to the Xbox One hardware, developers have long complained about the ESRAM module as one of the main causes of poor performance. However, The Coalition found a way to make it perform well.

"ESRAM management when done right is not super complicated, but is certainly key to achieving optimal bandwidth performance on Xbox One. The simplest methods are the best as it often turns out. We have reached a point where ESRAM allocations and memory aliasing is performing well for us."

Finally, PC gamers are probably wary of the developer after the Gears of War: Ultimate Edition fiasco. When asked about it, Rayner talked about it as a lesson that will bear fruit with Gears of War 4, which will deliver a “great launch experience”.

"Gears of War: Ultimate Edition was a great learning experience for us. We were the first major DX12 UWP title to market and while we did have issues to work through at launch, we managed to get through them quickly. Speaking directly to our community was a big deal for us post launch and they were fantastic at providing feedback, which we are adapting, where appropriate, into Gears 4. Our relationship with AMD and Nvidia is better than ever as we move towards Gears 4 launch on Windows 10. They are looking at builds of the game today and are providing great feedback to get the best performance out of their respective hardware. We are confident people will have a great launch experience playing the game."
 

SOR5

Member
so yeah

HDR and OLED is where its at if you still somehow didnt know

also universal platform making things easier for devs across Scorpio/XB1/PC
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Mike Rayner????? Holy shit I know him! Worked with him years ago! He was one of the best developers I know.
Oh yeah? That's awesome. He seems like a super nice guy and I was so thrilled that he actually answered all of these questions in detail.
 

SOR5

Member
"not only the best Gears game for fans, but also a defining visual showcase on Xbox One." is a nice quote as well
 

LastNac

Member
Dropped $2200 on a new Samsung 65" KS8500 in the hopes that HDR and 4K pay off.

Persoanlly, though I don't think OLED tech is there for longevity yet. Plus those displays are ridiculously expensive.
 

thuway

Member
Dropped $2200 on a new Samsung 65" KS8500 in the hopes that HDR and 4K pay off.

Persoanlly, though I don't think OLED tech is there for longevity yet. Plus those displays are ridiculously expensive.
Oled displays aren't that much more expensive than the TV you just bought.
 

Fredrik

Member
"not only the best Gears game for fans, but also a defining visual showcase on Xbox One." is a nice quote as well
And from what I read in another thread it'll be even better on PC. This might be the thing that finally push me toward upgrading to Win 10. Everything about it sounds great so far.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Dropped $2200 on a new Samsung 65" KS8500 in the hopes that HDR and 4K pay off.

Persoanlly, though I don't think OLED tech is there for longevity yet. Plus those displays are ridiculously expensive.
I'm not sure about longevity either but...I just cannot deal with LCD. It just does not work for me.

Nothing made that more clear than seeing the PC version running on a 98" 4K LCD (among many other instances). The difference in black reproduction in a dark room is just night and day. Local dimming helps but I still don't like it.

I've held onto my Kuro plasma for eight years and only OLED has me interested in upgrading. Also, LG's OLED TVs seem to be able to handle HDR content with lower latency than many of the competing displays. Like, the Samsung KS9000 Samsung KS9000 can hit around 20ms in game mode, which is insanely good, but goes up to 120ms when using HDR. That's nuts.
 

SOR5

Member
And from what I read in another thread it'll be even better on PC. This might be the thing that finally push me toward upgrading to Win 10. Everything about it sounds great so far.

I just really really really hope theyve learnt from Gears Ultimate, all the W10 games (except QB) seem to perform fine now but Gears Ultimate PC on launch wasnt nice to see
 

Maddanth

Member
A 65" OLED isn't much more expensive than $2200?
I would have to say they r quite more expensive, granted I'm in Canada but I'm looking at a curved 4K 65" OLED HDR and its 6000$ on sale. So I would imagine in the USA at least 4000$ and up?
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
I would have to say they r quite more expensive, granted I'm in Canada but I'm looking at a curved 4K 65" OLED HDR and its 6000$ on sale. So I would imagine in the USA at least 4000$ and up?
In the US, I've seen the 65" model as low as $3500 but, yeah, they are pricey.
 

Maddanth

Member
In the US, I've seen the 65" model as low as $3500 but, yeah, they are pricey.
Wow, ok well this particular model I'm looking at is 6000$ Cdn on sale which is pretty high, it's got me thinking about taking the plunge but I'm just not sure as its damn expensive . Without the OLED, it is much much cheaper so I'm wondering how much difference the OLED makes, cuz without there like half the price. Although I would imagine OLED makes a massive difference?
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Wow, ok well this particular model I'm looking at is 6000$ Cdn on sale which is pretty high, it's got me thinking about taking the plunge but I'm just not sure as its damn expensive . Without the OLED, it is much much cheaper so I'm wondering how much difference the OLED is, as cuz without there like half the price.
Well, for me, it's OLED or bust. I do think the difference is dramatic but I also like really rich blacks.

LCDs look great in a brightly lit store, I will say, but the second you throw it into a dark room the issues immediately become apparent even with local dimming.
 

Maddanth

Member
Well, for me, it's OLED or bust. I do think the difference is dramatic but I also like really rich blacks.

LCDs look great in a brightly lit store, I will say, but the second you throw it into a dark room the issues immediately become apparent even with local dimming.
Ya you r right About that, I have LCD now 65" and I know exactly what ur saying about the blacks. Damn, really want to take the plunge but 6000$cdn will set me back as its quite pricey.
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
I'm excited for the tech component of the game personally. It may not be pushing to reset the bar, but it's definitely pushing as much as it can given the budget constraints inherent to the Xbox One hardware.
 

vpance

Member
Also, LG's OLED TVs seem to be able to handle HDR content with lower latency than many of the competing displays. Like, the Samsung KS9000 Samsung KS9000 can hit around 20ms in game mode, which is insanely good, but goes up to 120ms when using HDR. That's nuts.

It would suck if most TVs HDR mode has high latency. Nice for movies but useless for gaming.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
It would suck if most TVs HDR mode has high latency. Nice for movies but useless for gaming.
That is, unfortunately, proving to be the case. I believe Dave is working on a DF piece covering input latency on HDR capable TVs (he spent a few hours testing a whole mess of them). Should be interesting to see...
 

vpance

Member
That is, unfortunately, proving to be the case. I believe Dave is working on a DF piece covering input latency on HDR capable TVs (he spent a few hours testing a whole mess of them). Should be interesting to see...

As suspected. Maybe Sony's BMD TVs can pull it off 🤔
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
That is, unfortunately, proving to be the case. I believe Dave is working on a DF piece covering input latency on HDR capable TVs (he spent a few hours testing a whole mess of them). Should be interesting to see...

Oh man so different TVs will have different HDR performance for input delay? Fuck, I suppose it's best to wait for another generation or two of TVs until the technology matures, unless the Sony TVs already have low latency HDR (I'm 99% certain I'll only upgrade to a Sony TV).

On another note, the detail and lighting in this scene is very impressive:

QRqnbaI.jpg
 
So, will the Scorpio do DSR for those whom only have 1080p displays? IMO this would be a game changing feature and is the really, really big barrier that people are facing when looking at buying a Scorpio because they think they will see no benefit with their 1080p screens...

Also, what was the jump like from gears on console to PC Ultra? Witcher 3 incredible levels of difference or more like a KOEI game?
 

MCD

Junior Member
Well, for me, it's OLED or bust. I do think the difference is dramatic but I also like really rich blacks.

LCDs look great in a brightly lit store, I will say, but the second you throw it into a dark room the issues immediately become apparent even with local dimming.

Exaggerated. LCDs nowadays look great and I owned a VT20 Plasma before. Samsung KS8500 is all around great for all media.

Shame about HDR and no game mode thingy though. Maybe they will fix it with a FW update.
 

Max_Po

Banned
so HDR is a new technology ?

I have a slightly old Plasma.... I think I purchased it in 2012....

I was excited about HDR... assumed that it was introduced a while agoooo ??
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
so HDR is a new technology ?

I have a slightly old Plasma.... I think I purchased it in 2012....

I was excited about HDR... assumed that it was introduced a while agoooo ??
It's new. Your TV's panel is 8 bit and HDR needs 10 bit (12 bit for Dolby).
 

Noobcraft

Member
Well, for me, it's OLED or bust. I do think the difference is dramatic but I also like really rich blacks.

LCDs look great in a brightly lit store, I will say, but the second you throw it into a dark room the issues immediately become apparent even with local dimming.
Yeah. I'd take a 1080P OLED over a 4k LED display any day of the week.
 
I absolutely love my OLED and I wish so damn much that it was 4K and HDR but it's not. OLED with those features are completely unaffordable for me and I really wonder if I can afford one in time for Scorpio.

DF sure sounds impressed about the Xbox One S then. Really waiting to see comparison videos now of the game on Xbox One and Xbox One S because of the HDR difference.
 

Max_Po

Banned
I think its really awesome that Microsoft has a Hardware scaler in the XboxOne S and there is no impact on the game ... I will still be on 1080p

If I am not mistake, they had a hardware scaler in the Xbox360 as well correct ?
 
I've held onto my Kuro plasma for eight years and only OLED has me interested in upgrading. Also, LG's OLED TVs seem to be able to handle HDR content with lower latency than many of the competing displays. Like, the Samsung KS9000 Samsung KS9000 can hit around 20ms in game mode, which is insanely good, but goes up to 120ms when using HDR. That's nuts.?

Wait, does this mean that in game mode HDR isn't enabled automatically? The extra processing for HDR actually makes input lag higher?

Never considered that and such a good thing to know. Currently have a 55w802a and that's a 55inch 1080p set that has a 16.9 ms input lag in game mode. As someone who plays lots of shooters online input lag is very very important to me.

The only 4k set I've considered is the 65 inch x850d and the input lag on that is 34ms. Never even bothered to ask what the input lag is with hdr enabled. Seems I'll continue to wait for a 4k tv purchase.


Edit: or rather Sony to release a 4K set that's worth a damn.

The Samsung KS8000 65 inch model is very intriguing but I'm very adamant about getting a Sony set.
 
Oh man so different TVs will have different HDR performance for input delay? Fuck, I suppose it's best to wait for another generation or two of TVs until the technology matures, unless the Sony TVs already have low latency HDR (I'm 99% certain I'll only upgrade to a Sony TV).

On another note, the detail and lighting in this scene is very impressive:

QRqnbaI.jpg

This does look good. This is from the E3 footage right?
 
Oh dear.

Gaf. Tell me, next year, a HDR OLED TV and AV receiver will come down in price this time next year?

Please Gaf.

Please?

If LG are still the only ones really making them I doubt it. They will improve them, but prices won't go down by much.
This years models should be cheaper next year though.
 

MysteryM

Member
I've got multiple Sony hd TVs, but am tempted to buy another for 4K and hdr but defiantly am going to wait a few years before committing whilst the tech is still in its infancy on lcd. Local dimming will help but I want to see a real difference and not just a little difference due to not enough contrast.
 
I'm not sure about longevity either but...I just cannot deal with LCD. It just does not work for me.

Nothing made that more clear than seeing the PC version running on a 98" 4K LCD (among many other instances). The difference in black reproduction in a dark room is just night and day. Local dimming helps but I still don't like it.

I've held onto my Kuro plasma for eight years and only OLED has me interested in upgrading. Also, LG's OLED TVs seem to be able to handle HDR content with lower latency than many of the competing displays. Like, the Samsung KS9000 Samsung KS9000 can hit around 20ms in game mode, which is insanely good, but goes up to 120ms when using HDR. That's nuts.

Did the KS9000 numbers come from DFs own testing? If yes, I'm sending the one I bought back and wait for the whole situation to get cleared up. Only have one week left to do that and don't want to be stuck with no HDR gaming capabilities.
 
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